James Harden thread (2017-18)

[thekdog34]

They coaching staff was CLEARLY wanting them to do what they were doing. Morey isn't the coach. This was about slowing the game down and winning an ugly game and minimizing turnovers.

There is a reason Chris Paul was doing the exact same things. Slowing the game down and throwing up what looked like silly 3's at the end of the shot clock when he was running the office. Harden AND Paul didn't both come up with that and think "oh this is it". That was a decision from the coaching staff.

Now I think they both should have looked for more opportunities to attack and push, but it is very clear this was intentional against the warriors. I also would have enjoyed less step back 3's, but again it seems clear to me that they were told to do that if nothing developed.

My point is you're attacking the players for executing the game plan when it seems your issue is with the game plan.

If harden's conditioning is the question, well i'd like to know why the guy was at the gym till after midnight every day during the playoffs (which seems like a bigger issue the more I think about it).

It's not the game plan, it's a choice by harden. If he plays faster, which he used to do in 2015 and prior, they would be better

Why do you think it isn't the game plan? Especially given Paul is playing the exact same way.

I'm really interested as it seemed clear from the start of the series that the rockets wanted to slow the game down and that Harden and paul seemed lockstep in their efforts to do that through the iso plays.

Several articles have been written about this. It's about dantoni adapting to harden rather than harden adapting to his game plan.

It's what harden currently feels comfortable doing, but he played faster in 2015 and prior, and I think he'd be better in the playoffs if he went back to that.

[dhsilv2]

It's not the game plan, it's a choice by harden. If he plays faster, which he used to do in 2015 and prior, they would be better

Why do you think it isn't the game plan? Especially given Paul is playing the exact same way.

I'm really interested as it seemed clear from the start of the series that the rockets wanted to slow the game down and that Harden and paul seemed lockstep in their efforts to do that through the iso plays.

Several articles have been written about this. It's about dantoni adapting to harden rather than harden adapting to his game plan.

It's what harden currently feels comfortable doing, but he played faster in 2015 and prior, and I think he'd be better in the playoffs if he went back to that.

But would the rockets? Slowing the game down is how the rockets won games 4 and 5. And again why is Paul doing the same thing? Paul is clearly better pushing the ball and not taking step back 3's yet he's doing the exact same things Harden does. He's basically mini Harden out there.

[thekdog34]

Why do you think it isn't the game plan? Especially given Paul is playing the exact same way.

I'm really interested as it seemed clear from the start of the series that the rockets wanted to slow the game down and that Harden and paul seemed lockstep in their efforts to do that through the iso plays.

Several articles have been written about this. It's about dantoni adapting to harden rather than harden adapting to his game plan.

It's what harden currently feels comfortable doing, but he played faster in 2015 and prior, and I think he'd be better in the playoffs if he went back to that.

But would the rockets? Slowing the game down is how the rockets won games 4 and 5. And again why is Paul doing the same thing? Paul is clearly better pushing the ball and not taking step back 3's yet he's doing the exact same things Harden does. He's basically mini Harden out there.

I don't think Paul does the same thing when Harden is sitting. He's pushing more, he's probing more, there are more midrange shots and more passes in general. It looks pretty different except they still take tons of 3s.

[dhsilv2]

Several articles have been written about this. It's about dantoni adapting to harden rather than harden adapting to his game plan.

It's what harden currently feels comfortable doing, but he played faster in 2015 and prior, and I think he'd be better in the playoffs if he went back to that.

But would the rockets? Slowing the game down is how the rockets won games 4 and 5. And again why is Paul doing the same thing? Paul is clearly better pushing the ball and not taking step back 3's yet he's doing the exact same things Harden does. He's basically mini Harden out there.

I don't think Paul does the same thing when Harden is sitting. He's pushing more, he's probing more, there are more midrange shots and more passes in general. It looks pretty different except they still take tons of 3s.

Paul in I think game 2 did push the ball, it was LOVELY to see, but otherwise for the most part he didn't push the ball. I was screaming at the computer screens until I guess in game 3 I realized that was bey design and the faster pace he mixed in was mostly him going off plan. I did like him running what I'd call "mini fast breaks" (these are essentially when he'd push the ball when the defense wasn't back and set despite it not being a break per say) here and there which Harden doesn't do, but the majority of plays once he was in the half court set were him dribbling till 6-10 seconds and mostly jacking up a 3.

Now paul does use his mid range game more, but he does that more when he's off ball with harden than when he's running it himself at least as I observed.

[thekdog34]

But would the rockets? Slowing the game down is how the rockets won games 4 and 5. And again why is Paul doing the same thing? Paul is clearly better pushing the ball and not taking step back 3's yet he's doing the exact same things Harden does. He's basically mini Harden out there.

I don't think Paul does the same thing when Harden is sitting. He's pushing more, he's probing more, there are more midrange shots and more passes in general. It looks pretty different except they still take tons of 3s.

Paul in I think game 2 did push the ball, it was LOVELY to see, but otherwise for the most part he didn't push the ball. I was screaming at the computer screens until I guess in game 3 I realized that was bey design and the faster pace he mixed in was mostly him going off plan. I did like him running what I'd call "mini fast breaks" (these are essentially when he'd push the ball when the defense wasn't back and set despite it not being a break per say) here and there which Harden doesn't do, but the majority of plays once he was in the half court set were him dribbling till 6-10 seconds and mostly jacking up a 3.

Now paul does use his mid range game more, but he does that more when he's off ball with harden than when he's running it himself at least as I observed.

Yeah, I wouldnt necessarily expect Paul to be streaking down the court like Wall, but he will at least try to look for opportunities to run himself (rather than just make full court passes like Harden does) and will take advantage of pushing the pace when the opportunity is there. Harden just almost always walks it up except when he throws a full court pass.

I like your characterization of "mini fast break." Paul is not a superfast player but I think if Harden incorporated that then it would make things easier.

[dhsilv2]

I don't think Paul does the same thing when Harden is sitting. He's pushing more, he's probing more, there are more midrange shots and more passes in general. It looks pretty different except they still take tons of 3s.

Paul in I think game 2 did push the ball, it was LOVELY to see, but otherwise for the most part he didn't push the ball. I was screaming at the computer screens until I guess in game 3 I realized that was bey design and the faster pace he mixed in was mostly him going off plan. I did like him running what I'd call "mini fast breaks" (these are essentially when he'd push the ball when the defense wasn't back and set despite it not being a break per say) here and there which Harden doesn't do, but the majority of plays once he was in the half court set were him dribbling till 6-10 seconds and mostly jacking up a 3.

Now paul does use his mid range game more, but he does that more when he's off ball with harden than when he's running it himself at least as I observed.

Yeah, I wouldnt necessarily expect Paul to be streaking down the court like Wall, but he will at least try to look for opportunities to run himself (rather than just make full court passes like Harden does) and will take advantage of pushing the pace when the opportunity is there. Harden just almost always walks it up except when he throws a full court pass.

I like your characterization of "mini fast break." Paul is not a superfast player but I think if Harden incorporated that then it would make things easier.

I agree and I've seen him do just that. It looked to me like the rocket's game plan was to minimize that, and I'll agree with you that it wasn't smart ball. I however feel it was part of the game plan more and I'm not going to fault him for going with it. I also see why they did it, but yeah mixing in some quick pushes absolutely imo would have been to the rockets advantage.

[thekdog34]

Paul in I think game 2 did push the ball, it was LOVELY to see, but otherwise for the most part he didn't push the ball. I was screaming at the computer screens until I guess in game 3 I realized that was bey design and the faster pace he mixed in was mostly him going off plan. I did like him running what I'd call "mini fast breaks" (these are essentially when he'd push the ball when the defense wasn't back and set despite it not being a break per say) here and there which Harden doesn't do, but the majority of plays once he was in the half court set were him dribbling till 6-10 seconds and mostly jacking up a 3.

Now paul does use his mid range game more, but he does that more when he's off ball with harden than when he's running it himself at least as I observed.

Yeah, I wouldnt necessarily expect Paul to be streaking down the court like Wall, but he will at least try to look for opportunities to run himself (rather than just make full court passes like Harden does) and will take advantage of pushing the pace when the opportunity is there. Harden just almost always walks it up except when he throws a full court pass.

I like your characterization of "mini fast break." Paul is not a superfast player but I think if Harden incorporated that then it would make things easier.

I agree and I've seen him do just that. It looked to me like the rocket's game plan was to minimize that, and I'll agree with you that it wasn't smart ball. I however feel it was part of the game plan more and I'm not going to fault him for going with it. I also see why they did it, but yeah mixing in some quick pushes absolutely imo would have been to the rockets advantage.

It'll be interesting to see what they add for next year. Dantoni has mentioned adding some wrinkles to the offense a few times.

[Ballerhogger]

He looked tried , should of ran more pnr with capella

[thekdog34]

He looked tried , should of ran more pnr with capella

I am seriously curious how he is tired.

Defensively he didn't do much all year. Offensively, he had high usage but he played at a slow place and he doesn't move off the ball. He'll often pass the ball to generate a fast break but he's rarely the one actually running.

[Ballerhogger]

He looked tried , should of ran more pnr with capella

I am seriously curious how he is tired.

Defensively he didn't do much all year. Offensively, he had high usage but he played at a slow place and he doesn't move off the ball. He'll often pass the ball to generate a fast break but he's rarely the one actually running.

Not in greatest shape, defensivley he did decent job on KD

[dhsilv2]

Yeah, I wouldnt necessarily expect Paul to be streaking down the court like Wall, but he will at least try to look for opportunities to run himself (rather than just make full court passes like Harden does) and will take advantage of pushing the pace when the opportunity is there. Harden just almost always walks it up except when he throws a full court pass.

I like your characterization of "mini fast break." Paul is not a superfast player but I think if Harden incorporated that then it would make things easier.

I agree and I've seen him do just that. It looked to me like the rocket's game plan was to minimize that, and I'll agree with you that it wasn't smart ball. I however feel it was part of the game plan more and I'm not going to fault him for going with it. I also see why they did it, but yeah mixing in some quick pushes absolutely imo would have been to the rockets advantage.

It'll be interesting to see what they add for next year. Dantoni has mentioned adding some wrinkles to the offense a few times.

They certainly have the pieces to do more, though I"m not sure what they'd want to do differently with the warriors. The warriors are just a completely different kind of team than anyone else.

[dhsilv2]

He looked tried , should of ran more pnr with capella

I am seriously curious how he is tired.

Defensively he didn't do much all year. Offensively, he had high usage but he played at a slow place and he doesn't move off the ball. He'll often pass the ball to generate a fast break but he's rarely the one actually running.

Not in greatest shape, defensivley he did decent job on KD

He was litterally at the gym working out after every single game till well after midnight. I don't get how he's out of shape if he's doing that every night after the games...

[Krodis]

He does have asthma, which might affect his conditioning.

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[clyde21]

I agree and I've seen him do just that. It looked to me like the rocket's game plan was to minimize that, and I'll agree with you that it wasn't smart ball. I however feel it was part of the game plan more and I'm not going to fault him for going with it. I also see why they did it, but yeah mixing in some quick pushes absolutely imo would have been to the rockets advantage.

It'll be interesting to see what they add for next year. Dantoni has mentioned adding some wrinkles to the offense a few times.

They certainly have the pieces to do more, though I"m not sure what they'd want to do differently with the warriors. The warriors are just a completely different kind of team than anyone else.

Their gameplan was perfect. Switching, disrupt the ball/player movement, slow the game down and make Durant go into ISO-mode.

Jeff Bzdelik is a name to keep an eye on moving forward. He put together an amazing defensive gameplan.