Where would 1996 Jordan Rank Today?

Matt15 · Post #1 » by **Matt15** » Wed Dec 6, 2017 10:19 pm

Where do you think '96 Jordan would rank today among guards and overall?

ReaLiez · Post #2 » by **ReaLiez** » Wed Dec 6, 2017 10:35 pm

He avg approx 30 7 4 and 2 steals a game 43% from 3 at 1.4 3s a game. He would be better than Harden and probably only second to Giannis (so far), if that, who is avg 30 10 4 2 2.

Considering team success I would expect him to be the best in the NBA

mischievous · Post #3 » by **mischievous** » Wed Dec 6, 2017 11:01 pm

Battling with Lebron for first.

Sublime187 · Post #4 » by **Sublime187** » Wed Dec 6, 2017 11:18 pm

ReaLiez wrote:He avg approx 30 7 4 and 2 steals a game 43% from 3 at 1.4 3s a game. He would be better than Harden and probably only second to Giannis (so far), if that, who is avg 30 10 4 2 2.

Considering team success I would expect him to be the best in the NBA

Your username fits your above statement very well...

1993Playoffs · Post #5 » by **1993Playoffs** » Wed Dec 6, 2017 11:20 pm

Sublime187 wrote:
ReaLiez wrote:He avg approx 30 7 4 and 2 steals a game 43% from 3 at 1.4 3s a game. He would be better than Harden and probably only second to Giannis (so far), if that, who is avg 30 10 4 2 2.

Considering team success I would expect him to be the best in the NBA

Your username fits your above statement very well...

Lmao

Heej · Post #6 » by **Heej** » Wed Dec 6, 2017 11:35 pm

Below LeBron and less than or equal to Harden and Steph. No shortened 3 point line. And much like 18 LeBron isn't peak LeBron but only looks like it due to him playing the optimal position in the smallball era, 96 MJ isn't peak MJ but only looks like it due to playing in the massively watered down late 90s

mysticOscar · Post #7 » by **mysticOscar** » Wed Dec 6, 2017 11:43 pm

Heej wrote:Below LeBron and less than or equal to Harden and Steph. No shortened 3 point line

Space today would make him even more letha on offensel. The more perimeter oriented offense today would make him more lethal on defense. He would be up there as no 1

Heej · Post #8 » by **Heej** » Wed Dec 6, 2017 11:45 pm

mysticOscar wrote:
Heej wrote:Below LeBron and less than or equal to Harden and Steph. No shortened 3 point line

Space today would make him even more letha on offensel. The more perimeter oriented offense today would make him more lethal on defense. He would be up there as no 1

No it wouldn't because he can't handcheck as much now as he could then and his reduced footspeed would stand out more vs modern NBA athletes than it did in 96 vs depleted post-Expansion pre-international rosters. I do suspect his help defense would be above Danny Green level as a 2 Guard tho

mysticOscar · Post #9 » by **mysticOscar** » Wed Dec 6, 2017 11:51 pm

Heej wrote:
mysticOscar wrote:
Heej wrote:Below LeBron and less than or equal to Harden and Steph. No shortened 3 point line

Space today would make him even more letha on offensel. The more perimeter oriented offense today would make him more lethal on defense. He would be up there as no 1

No it wouldn't because he can't handcheck as much now as he could then and his reduced footspeed would stand out more vs modern NBA athletes than it did in 96 vs depleted post-Expansion pre-international rosters

Watch his games in '96. He was extremely quick still that year. Bulls dominated and got to that 72 wins was predominantly built on there defense due to the league moving to perimeter offense from shortened line.

His defensive impact today would be even more emphasised with guards doing predominantly doing the bulk of the scoring rather than front court players.

Heej · Post #10 » by **Heej** » Thu Dec 7, 2017 12:14 am

mysticOscar wrote:
Heej wrote:
mysticOscar wrote:
Space today would make him even more letha on offensel. The more perimeter oriented offense today would make him more lethal on defense. He would be up there as no 1

No it wouldn't because he can't handcheck as much now as he could then and his reduced footspeed would stand out more vs modern NBA athletes than it did in 96 vs depleted post-Expansion pre-international rosters

Watch his games in '96. He was extremely quick still that year. Bulls dominated and got to that 72 wins was predominantly built on there defense due to the league moving to perimeter offense from shortened line.

His defensive impact today would be even more emphasised with guards doing predominantly doing the bulk of the scoring rather than front court players.

I'm sure he was but it's also relative to the athleticism of wings in that particular era. I actually think his defensive impact in a vacuum would be higher because MJ in a free safety role would be devastating. But this is not in a vacuum, because he's also being transported to the 2017-18 season; where his perimeter defense wouldn't be as impressive relative to League average due to the competition he's playing against now.

His offense would certainly be far less impactful even if he was on a team with 4 shooters because he's less of a willing passer than someone like LeBron, Harden, or Steph so the defense can easily bait him into taking a substantial number of bad shots. Because that's what he frequently did on those Bulls teams, but the level of team defense in this era is too great for his playstyle to work. Especially because teams would liberally shade guys over to him due to how less threatening of a passer he is. Not to mention his shooting woes would cramp spacing and limit the lineups you can trot out around him in the playoffs much like with Derozan and Westbrook

Which is why I put him on par or below Steph and Harden imo because those guys are having like the best offensive seasons ever.

RCM88x · Post #11 » by **RCM88x** » Thu Dec 7, 2017 12:20 am

With or slightly below LeBron. Lack of a reliable 3pt shot from the 2 guard spot is a little tough to predict in today's league, especially with more ball dominant PGs. I think over all he'd have the same impact, but overall wouldn't be as dominant simply due to the number of great players on teams with depth that blows any team from '96 off the planet.

bledredwine · Post #12 » by **bledredwine** » Thu Dec 7, 2017 12:32 am

lol @ the "lebron" responses. Lebron just got bested by another player in the Finals. MJ always was clear cut number 1.
To give you guys perspective of Jordan's consistent dominance, Lebron averaged 18 PPG in 2011 finals. Jordan's single lowest scoring finals game was 22 points. After his first 4 finals series, Lebron's finals AVERAGE was 22 ppg.

This is Jordan by a hell of a lot. Heck, Jordan in 98 was better than anyone today.
Better defender and scorer than anyone in the top 5, easy. Jordan's midrange game made him unstoppable, especially in the clutch where Lebron sucks.

Here, have some footage of what he looked like in the playoffs 1996, still getting doubled more than the top 5 players today combined. Still more of an athletic freak, quick footed and quick/ridiculous fadeaways.

Watch on YouTube

It's why he was absolutely lethal in the clutch and the player you want on your team, especially in the 4th quarter. Scottie said that if he knew the Bulls were within 7 heading into the 4th quarter, he knew they had the game because of Mike.

bledredwine · Post #13 » by **bledredwine** » Thu Dec 7, 2017 12:41 am

Heej wrote:Below LeBron and less than or equal to Harden and Steph. No shortened 3 point line. And much like 18 LeBron isn't peak LeBron but only looks like it due to him playing the optimal position in the smallball era, 96 MJ isn't peak MJ but only looks like it due to playing in the massively watered down late 90s

Watered down late 90s? Was that a joke?

I'd be surprised if Lebron is even top 3 in the 90s, with Jordan, Hakeem, and Shaq, dominating more than anyone in the league today.
Watered down, with handchecking, physicality, and elite big men waiting in the lane?

Anyway, curious - who's number does Lebron wear and why? Who's picture does he have on his phone wallpaper?

scrabbarista · Post #14 » by **scrabbarista** » Thu Dec 7, 2017 12:49 am

The best.

Sublime187 · Post #15 » by **Sublime187** » Thu Dec 7, 2017 12:52 am

bledredwine wrote:lol @ the "lebron" responses. Lebron just got bested by another player in the Finals. MJ always was clear cut number 1.
To give you guys perspective of Jordan's consistent dominance, Lebron averaged 18 PPG in 2011 finals. Jordan's single lowest scoring finals game was 22 points. After his first 4 finals series, Lebron's finals AVERAGE was 22 ppg.

This is Jordan by a hell of a lot. Heck, Jordan in 98 was better than anyone today.
Better defender and scorer than anyone in the top 5, easy. Jordan's midrange game made him unstoppable, especially in the clutch where Lebron sucks.

Here, have some footage of what he looked like in the playoffs 1996, still getting doubled more than the top 5 players today combined. Still more of an athletic freak, quick footed and quick/ridiculous fadeaways.

Watch on YouTube

It's why he was absolutely lethal in the clutch and the player you want on your team, especially in the 4th quarter. Scottie said that if he knew the Bulls were within 7 heading into the 4th quarter, he knew they had the game because of Mike.

Lol. I'm surprised you didn't say Wizards Jordan is better then everybody today as well.

scrabbarista · Post #16 » by **scrabbarista** » Thu Dec 7, 2017 12:59 am

bledredwine wrote:
Heej wrote:Below LeBron and less than or equal to Harden and Steph. No shortened 3 point line. And much like 18 LeBron isn't peak LeBron but only looks like it due to him playing the optimal position in the smallball era, 96 MJ isn't peak MJ but only looks like it due to playing in the massively watered down late 90s

Watered down late 90s? Was that a joke?

I'd be surprised if Lebron is even top 3 in the 90s, with Jordan, Hakeem, and Shaq, dominating more than anyone in the league today.
Watered down, with handchecking, physicality, and elite big men waiting in the lane?

Anyway, curious - who's number does Lebron wear and why? Who's picture does he have on his phone wallpaper?

Tim Duncan and Kareem 1 and 2, I like it (although, I do have MJ 1st).

Edit: What I meant to say was: the only player I'd take unhesitatingly over Duncan would be Jordan. Lebron is almost there, too, though.

ReaLiez · Post #17 » by **ReaLiez** » Thu Dec 7, 2017 1:18 am

Sublime187 wrote:
bledredwine wrote:lol @ the "lebron" responses. Lebron just got bested by another player in the Finals. MJ always was clear cut number 1.
To give you guys perspective of Jordan's consistent dominance, Lebron averaged 18 PPG in 2011 finals. Jordan's single lowest scoring finals game was 22 points. After his first 4 finals series, Lebron's finals AVERAGE was 22 ppg.

This is Jordan by a hell of a lot. Heck, Jordan in 98 was better than anyone today.
Better defender and scorer than anyone in the top 5, easy. Jordan's midrange game made him unstoppable, especially in the clutch where Lebron sucks.

Here, have some footage of what he looked like in the playoffs 1996, still getting doubled more than the top 5 players today combined. Still more of an athletic freak, quick footed and quick/ridiculous fadeaways.

Watch on YouTube

It's why he was absolutely lethal in the clutch and the player you want on your team, especially in the 4th quarter. Scottie said that if he knew the Bulls were within 7 heading into the 4th quarter, he knew they had the game because of Mike.

Lol. I'm surprised you didn't say Wizards Jordan is better then everybody today as well.

While I don't agree with everything that has been said it is still more valuable than your WEAK sarcastic comments. Where do you think he ranks? Poor mans DeRozan? Jimmy Butler could shut old man Jordan down right?

Heej · Post #18 » by **Heej** » Thu Dec 7, 2017 1:42 am

bledredwine wrote:lol @ the "lebron" responses. Lebron just got bested by another player in the Finals. MJ always was clear cut number 1.
To give you guys perspective of Jordan's consistent dominance, Lebron averaged 18 PPG in 2011 finals. Jordan's single lowest scoring finals game was 22 points. After his first 4 finals series, Lebron's finals AVERAGE was 22 ppg.

This is Jordan by a hell of a lot. Heck, Jordan in 98 was better than anyone today.
Better defender and scorer than anyone in the top 5, easy. Jordan's midrange game made him unstoppable, especially in the clutch where Lebron sucks.

Here, have some footage of what he looked like in the playoffs 1996, still getting doubled more than the top 5 players today combined. Still more of an athletic freak, quick footed and quick/ridiculous fadeaways.

Watch on YouTube

It's why he was absolutely lethal in the clutch and the player you want on your team, especially in the 4th quarter. Scottie said that if he knew the Bulls were within 7 heading into the 4th quarter, he knew they had the game because of Mike.

You do realize in the first 1:30 the commentators talked about how people say MJ doesn't go to the hole anymore? Meaning that was a real phenomenon for that season. It's obvious too looking at these clips how much he lacked burst and had to settle for tough contested pull ups. And then you see how far away from the nail the weakside above the break wing defender was due to the illegal defense rule compared to now. LeBron's still getting to the rim at will you won't catch any commentators saying something like that now. Which makes sense because he's bigger, stronger, and faster than MJ. 96 MJ isn't living in the paint in 2017-18 the way LeBron is, watching those clips only helps to prove it.

JordansBulls · Post #19 » by **JordansBulls** » Thu Dec 7, 2017 2:07 am

Best player handily. Won league and finals mvp as well as scoring title same year. No other current player has done that.

giordunk · Post #20 » by **giordunk** » Thu Dec 7, 2017 4:20 am

bledredwine wrote:lol @ the "lebron" responses. Lebron just got bested by another player in the Finals. MJ always was clear cut number 1.
To give you guys perspective of Jordan's consistent dominance, Lebron averaged 18 PPG in 2011 finals. Jordan's single lowest scoring finals game was 22 points. After his first 4 finals series, Lebron's finals AVERAGE was 22 ppg.

This is Jordan by a hell of a lot. Heck, Jordan in 98 was better than anyone today.
Better defender and scorer than anyone in the top 5, easy. Jordan's midrange game made him unstoppable, especially in the clutch where Lebron sucks.

Here, have some footage of what he looked like in the playoffs 1996, still getting doubled more than the top 5 players today combined. Still more of an athletic freak, quick footed and quick/ridiculous fadeaways.

Watch on YouTube

It's why he was absolutely lethal in the clutch and the player you want on your team, especially in the 4th quarter. Scottie said that if he knew the Bulls were within 7 heading into the 4th quarter, he knew they had the game because of Mike.

Why are you bringing 2011 LeBron James into this?