What's Your Comp for Ben Simmons Now?

[cashmachine]

Muggsy Bogues

[Boarder Patrol]

Taller LeBron with no jumper. If he gets one....

[thinktank]

It's almost like the comparison falls apart because of it.

You wish.

There’s shooting at the rim and then there’s shooting beyond 3 feet.

[The Master]

Ya. Magic was a 60+ TS% from day one in the NBA and only had 3 seasons in his entire career of not hitting at least 60%, with his career low of 58%.

Simmons this year 15.8 points and 55 TS% would've both been career lows for Magic (per 100 the points are very similar). So again one year in I think he is looking like a less efficient scoring version of Magic. I also question how high he can get his efficient with his issues with FTs and jump shots, I'm not sure what potential he has with both.

That's a fair point, but I think the difference is much smaller.

Like you mentioned, pace-adjusted their points per36 are almost the same (17.2 vs 17.3) and per100 possessions their stats are:

22.9ppg, 9.8rpg, 9.3apg, 3.1spg, 5.0 tov on 60.2%ts
22.5ppg, 11.6rpg, 11.6apg, 2.5spg, 1.2bpg, 4.9tov on 55.7%ts

Furthermore, Magic's playoff stats are inflated by a pace and high minutes he played. Per100 possessions his playoffs stats from rookie season:

20.9ppg, 12.0rpg, 10.8apg, 4.6tov, 59.6%ts

Simmons in 3 games against Heat:

25.9pts, 12.9reb, 12.5ast, 4.3tov, 56.0%ts

Still a way to go, but this comparison will look very interesting if Sixers make ECF and Ben maintains similar level.

Magic career-wise (not including last season) was scoring (per36) 19.2 ppg on 61%ts in regular season and 17.7ppg on 59.5%ts in playoffs and it's a fair bet that Simmons can be better than that.

[Duke4life831]

Ya. Magic was a 60+ TS% from day one in the NBA and only had 3 seasons in his entire career of not hitting at least 60%, with his career low of 58%.

Simmons this year 15.8 points and 55 TS% would've both been career lows for Magic (per 100 the points are very similar). So again one year in I think he is looking like a less efficient scoring version of Magic. I also question how high he can get his efficient with his issues with FTs and jump shots, I'm not sure what potential he has with both.

That's a fair point, but I think the difference is much smaller.

Like you mentioned, pace-adjusted their points per36 are almost the same (17.2 vs 17.3) and per100 possessions their stats are:

22.9ppg, 9.8rpg, 9.3apg, 3.1spg, 5.0 tov on 60.2%ts
22.5ppg, 11.6rpg, 11.6apg, 2.5spg, 1.2bpg, 4.9tov on 55.7%ts

Furthermore, Magic's playoff stats are inflated by a pace and high minutes he played. Per100 possessions his playoffs stats from rookie season:

20.9ppg, 12.0rpg, 10.8apg, 4.6tov, 59.6%ts

Simmons in 3 games against Heat:

25.9pts, 12.9reb, 12.5ast, 4.3tov, 56.0%ts

Still a way to go, but this comparison will look very interesting if Sixers make ECF and Ben maintains similar level.

Oh I agree, I don't think the amount of scoring is all that different. To me the biggest difference is just the efficiency. Magic was basically a lock for a 60 TS% season for basically his entire career. I'm not sure Ben is ever going to get to that because of his shot, I do personally think it's broken and has little potential. With that said, I'm not saying this as a negative to Ben at all. Comparing him to arguably a top 5 player all time and the thing that really separates them is just efficiency, is pretty damn impressive.

[The Master]

Oh I agree, I don't think the amount of scoring is all that different. To me the biggest difference is just the efficiency. Magic was basically a lock for a 60 TS% season for basically his entire career. I'm not sure Ben is ever going to get to that because of his shot, I do personally think it's broken and has little potential. With that said, I'm not saying this as a negative to Ben at all. Comparing him to arguably a top 5 player all time and the thing that really separates them is just efficiency, is pretty damn impressive.

Simmons will be very efficient 20ppg scorer without jumpshot if he develops free throw shooting to solid territory. He will be limited in playoffs (like Magic was) because of that but with high-pace basketball in regular season he will be very efficient.

Since December 31th, he scored (per36) 17.2pts on 59%ts. With 70% ft that would be 17.8 pts on 61%ts, in college he had 67%free throw percentage and he started playoffs with 75% (it seems he worked on this before playoffs because arc in his shot is much better). He's a rookie without any post up game, so even developing post up skills considering how often he's defended by smaller players (in Miami series he's been defended by 6'6 200lbs Richardson and 6'7 225 lbs Winslow) would give him two-three additional points a game.

That's why I think that there won't be significant scoring difference between them. The question is if Simmons can become top5 playmaker of alltime. That's a bold prediction but he's better than Magic, Stockton, LeBron or Kidd in assists/per100 possessions, so it's not surreal that he can be in that group in 2028.

[BenSimmonsStan]

Point God

[70sFan]

Simmons will be very efficient 20ppg scorer without jumpshot if he develops free throw shooting to solid territory. He will be limited in playoffs (like Magic was) because of that but with high-pace basketball in regular season he will be very efficient.

Please tell me how Magic was limited in playoffs. He was one of the greatest PS performers ever...

[GYK]

6'10 Jason Kidd
The thing that always separated Kidd/Rondo or even Nash/Stockton from Magic is that while everyone mentioned has other world vision but Magic had a great post game. He could slash. A prolific scorer. This allowed for new angles to be exploited.
Guys like Kidd and Rondo weren't great scorers and used the angles of less pressure or patience to create for others. Similar to Nash and John who could score but not prolifically that they would get the same pressure thus angels scorers receive.
Ben isn't a scorer. He can't give you that 10-0 personal run Wade gave him in game 2. But his size and athletic ability is a threat pressured that allows good seams.

Magic a prolific scorer??? You must be thinking of someone else. He rarely averaged 20 pts a game in a season.

He did multiple times. This isn't a stats thing tho. It's a skillset thing. He could post. He could hit the mid-range. There's enough highlight game winners for Magic because they trust his scoring ability. Of course he could cut and drive. The threat of scoring and being in these situations also allowed for more passing angles. Magic wasn't limited in his personal offense in the least. If need be he could be the point maker.

[giordunk]

As someone who was on the "Joel Embiid could be the best center in the league even thoug he hasn't played a single NBA game" camp, I think Ben Simmons is already a way better natural passer than LeBron. His playmaking just seems so natural and graceful, and it makes LeBron's passing almost seem robotic.

[sfernald]

6'10 Jason Kidd
The thing that always separated Kidd/Rondo or even Nash/Stockton from Magic is that while everyone mentioned has other world vision but Magic had a great post game. He could slash. A prolific scorer. This allowed for new angles to be exploited.
Guys like Kidd and Rondo weren't great scorers and used the angles of less pressure or patience to create for others. Similar to Nash and John who could score but not prolifically that they would get the same pressure thus angels scorers receive.
Ben isn't a scorer. He can't give you that 10-0 personal run Wade gave him in game 2. But his size and athletic ability is a threat pressured that allows good seams.

Magic a prolific scorer??? You must be thinking of someone else. He rarely averaged 20 pts a game in a season.

He did multiple times. This isn't a stats thing tho. It's a skillset thing. He could post. He could hit the mid-range. There's enough highlight game winners for Magic because they trust his scoring ability. Of course he could cut and drive. The threat of scoring and being in these situations also allowed for more passing angles. Magic wasn't limited in his personal offense in the least. If need be he could be the point maker.

Okay I’ve really been thinking about this. I watched Magic. When a simulcast was on channel 9 on my 13” tv and I spent 30 minutes before the game adjusting the antenna. Yeah, he was a good shooter. I always wanted him to shoot more to be honest.