The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 2)

[Heej]

The fact that Curry is one of the few help defenders at the PG position that actually matters is a huge feather in his cap. Dude has size, length, instincts, and smarts. Plus his rebounding at his position is no joke. He's a highly underrated rebounder imo, especially as a PG.

[Joao Saraiva]

John Stockton basically has double career assists Lebron has. That is insane.

The most impressive is how he got them. The Jazz had no real great floor spacers in the end of the 80s and begining of the 90s... and had Mark Eaton that was an offensive cancer. Still in the half court he could find players from every possible angle for them to score near the basket, even with big confusion in the paint.

I really think he's on the Magic statosphere... challanging him for the GOAT playmaker.

[Heej]

John Stockton basically has double career assists Lebron has. That is insane.

The most impressive is how he got them. The Jazz had no real great floor spacers in the end of the 80s and begining of the 90s... and had Mark Eaton that was an offensive cancer. Still in the half court he could find players from every possible angle for them to score near the basket, even with big confusion in the paint.

I really think he's on the Magic statosphere... challanging him for the GOAT playmaker.

When I watch his highlights the one thing I appreciate more than even his insane accuracy is how much zip he had on his passes. Passes that need to be bounce passes for average PGs to avoid getting deflected were just rifled in with the perfect touch. Magic had that too. LeBron has more of the textbook bounce passes in his game and cross-court lasers that are high degree of difficulty in their own right, but nothing like Stockton's lasers from the top of the arc into the paint

[Joao Saraiva]

John Stockton basically has double career assists Lebron has. That is insane.

The most impressive is how he got them. The Jazz had no real great floor spacers in the end of the 80s and begining of the 90s... and had Mark Eaton that was an offensive cancer. Still in the half court he could find players from every possible angle for them to score near the basket, even with big confusion in the paint.

I really think he's on the Magic statosphere... challanging him for the GOAT playmaker.

When I watch his highlights the one thing I appreciate more than even his insane accuracy is how much zip he had on his passes. Passes that need to be bounce passes for average PGs to avoid getting deflected were just rifled in with the perfect touch. Magic had that too. LeBron has more of the textbook bounce passes in his game and cross-court lasers that are high degree of difficulty in their own right, but nothing like Stockton's lasers from the top of the arc into the paint

It's diferent. To start LeBron gets the attention to stop him from scoring that Stockton didn't. He just couldn't score at the rate of LBJ, and that's fine. LeBron is one of the best scorers ever.

LeBron is also taller and stronger, so he also profits from doubles in the post and has more kick and drive effect.

Stockton is more pure playmaking. Reading pick&roll situations, read picks away from the ball, post movements... Stockton was a better passer than LeBron. LeBron has diferent tools with his playmaking... and well I can't take that away from LeBron, but Stockton overall was a better playmaker/passer. And yes Magic had that too, and so did Bird and Nash. However I think Stockton was either the best of the group in that particular regard or 2nd best to Magic.

[RSCD3_]

Durant may be the most overrated defender in the league.

And curry is underrated defensively, oh he cant survive a lebron-irving pick and roll too well? Well neither can 25 other starting point guards. LeBron on any point guard is a weakness but people act like curry is IT because he cant handle the hardest of assignments

[Arman_tanzarian]

Watch on YouTube

all things considered probably the goat level of basketball

Hands down that is the highest level of basketball I've ever seen a player reach.

Side note, look how much better TT used to look. He was slimmer and quicker here. I haven't seen that TT since that year's Finals.

Lebron trash-talking and giving that look to Curry is probably my favorite Lebron moment. Might even like it more than the intense stare in the game 6 @ Boston

Yup, at that point LeBron knew he was in Curry's and GSW's head and Curry knew LeBron knew this at that point.

[RCM88x]

One day I'll understand why the Cavs are obsessed with marginal perimeter players and refuse to have anyone over 7ft on the roster.

[oaktownwarriors87]

I was just thinking... there is no way LeBron is a Magic/Jordan hybrid. He'd pretty much have to be Jesus Christ himself in-order to earn that.

I think a more accurate comparison is a Karl Malone/Scottie Pippen hybrid. Essentially he's Scottie Pippen with tremendous size, strength, durability and longevity.

[RCM88x]

He's a Magic/DrJ hybrid.

[Jaivl]

I was just thinking... there is no way LeBron is a Magic/Jordan hybrid. He'd pretty much have to be Jesus Christ himself in-order to earn that.

I think a more accurate comparison is a Karl Malone/Scottie Pippen hybrid. Essentially he's Scottie Pippen with tremendous size, strength, durability and longevity.

LeBron is tiers ahead of Pippen as a playmaker and shooter.

[oaktownwarriors87]

I was just thinking... there is no way LeBron is a Magic/Jordan hybrid. He'd pretty much have to be Jesus Christ himself in-order to earn that.

I think a more accurate comparison is a Karl Malone/Scottie Pippen hybrid. Essentially he's Scottie Pippen with tremendous size, strength, durability and longevity.

LeBron is tiers ahead of Pippen as a playmaker and shooter.

Not really. Pippen was just as capable as playing PG, and prime Scottie Pippen was taking about five 3's a game and shooting 36%.

LeBron shoots 34% for his career and he grew up in the 3 point era. He's been shooting 35% on 5 attempts since arriving to Cleveland.

LeBrons 3pt percentages when he took at least 4 per game
37.9
36.2
36.3
35.4
34.4
33.3
33.5
31.9
31.5

Pippens 3pt percentages when he took at least 4 per game
37.4
36.8
34.5
34.0
31.8

Considering the eras they played in there isn't much difference.

[SactoKingsFan]

I was just thinking... there is no way LeBron is a Magic/Jordan hybrid. He'd pretty much have to be Jesus Christ himself in-order to earn that.

I think a more accurate comparison is a Karl Malone/Scottie Pippen hybrid. Essentially he's Scottie Pippen with tremendous size, strength, durability and longevity.

LeBron is tiers ahead of Pippen as a playmaker and shooter.

Not really. Pippen was just as capable as playing PG, and prime Scottie Pippen was taking about five 3's a game and shooting 36%.

LeBron shoots 34% for his career and he grew up in the 3 point era. He's been shooting 35% on 5 attempts since arriving to Cleveland.

LeBrons 3pt percentages when he took at least 4 per game
37.9
36.2
36.3
35.4
34.4
33.3
33.5
31.9
31.5

Pippens 3pt percentages when he took at least 4 per game
37.4
36.8
34.5
34.0
31.8

Pippen was only a 36% 3PT shooter for 2 seasons and that was with a shorter 3PT line.

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[Sublime187]

I was just thinking... there is no way LeBron is a Magic/Jordan hybrid. He'd pretty much have to be Jesus Christ himself in-order to earn that.

I think a more accurate comparison is a Karl Malone/Scottie Pippen hybrid. Essentially he's Scottie Pippen with tremendous size, strength, durability and longevity.

What? Lebron is well ahead of both Pippen and Malone on offense skill wise it is not just a difference of size and longevity...

[oaktownwarriors87]

LeBron is tiers ahead of Pippen as a playmaker and shooter.

Not really. Pippen was just as capable as playing PG, and prime Scottie Pippen was taking about five 3's a game and shooting 36%.

LeBron shoots 34% for his career and he grew up in the 3 point era. He's been shooting 35% on 5 attempts since arriving to Cleveland.

LeBrons 3pt percentages when he took at least 4 per game
37.9
36.2
36.3
35.4
34.4
33.3
33.5
31.9
31.5

Pippens 3pt percentages when he took at least 4 per game
37.4
36.8
34.5
34.0
31.8

Pippen was only a 36% 3PT shooter for 2 seasons and that was with a shorter 3PT line.

Sent from my ONEPLUS 3T using Tapatalk

The point still stands. The gap between them was minimal, especially when you consider the era.

[Ainosterhaspie]

I was just thinking... there is no way LeBron is a Magic/Jordan hybrid. He'd pretty much have to be Jesus Christ himself in-order to earn that.

I think a more accurate comparison is a Karl Malone/Scottie Pippen hybrid. Essentially he's Scottie Pippen with tremendous size, strength, durability and longevity.

I'd say he's a Magic/Jordan/Malone hybrid personally. He has really close to Magic's playmaking, really close to Jordan's athleticism and scoring talent, and all that with a Malone frame and durability. He doesn't score as much as Jordan, but he doesn't shoot as much as him either because he's passing more. He doesn't get as many assists as Magic, but that because he's so good at scoring that he shouldn't be trying to assist that much. He's also never played with Kareem level talent to feed.

[oaktownwarriors87]

I was just thinking... there is no way LeBron is a Magic/Jordan hybrid. He'd pretty much have to be Jesus Christ himself in-order to earn that.

I think a more accurate comparison is a Karl Malone/Scottie Pippen hybrid. Essentially he's Scottie Pippen with tremendous size, strength, durability and longevity.

I'd say he's a Magic/Jordan/Malone hybrid personally. He has really close to Magic's playmaking, really close to Jordan's athleticism and scoring talent, and all that with a Malone frame and durability. He doesn't score as much as Jordan, but he doesn't shoot as much as him either because he's passing more. He doesn't get as many assists as Magic, but that because he's so good at scoring that he shouldn't be trying to assist that much. He's also never played with Kareem level talent to feed.

His play making doesn't even come close to Magic Johnson. There is nothing there other than the height and the fact that they can both play PG. Magic is leaps and bounds ahead of him in that department. I can not stress enough that this is in no way accurate. LeBrons passing is much more similar to that of Jordan or Pippen.

His athleticism is very different from Jordans. Jordan had much larger hands and proportionately longer arms. He used better foot work and quickness to get to where he wanted, while LeBron is more likely to use his power. There are very few similarities between Jordan and LeBron.

Kobe was like Jordan, though not as good. LeBron isn't like Jordan... and no one is like Magic.

Like them he is an all-time great, but he's not at all like them as a player.

[dreamshake]

His play making doesn't even come close to Magic Johnson. There is nothing there other than the height and the fact that they can both play PG. Magic is leaps and bounds ahead of him in that department. I can not stress enough that this is in no way accurate. LeBrons passing is much more similar to that of Jordan or Pippen.

Completely disagree.

Career AST%
Magic 40.9
LeBron 35.4
Jordan 24.9
Pippen 23.1

IMO LeBron is much closer to Magic than to MJ/Pip as a passer, both in type of passes as well as impact/effectiveness of passing. I think the stats back that up.

[oaktownwarriors87]

His play making doesn't even come close to Magic Johnson. There is nothing there other than the height and the fact that they can both play PG. Magic is leaps and bounds ahead of him in that department. I can not stress enough that this is in no way accurate. LeBrons passing is much more similar to that of Jordan or Pippen.

Completely disagree.

Career AST%
Magic 40.9
LeBron 35.4
Jordan 24.9
Pippen 23.1

IMO LeBron is much closer to Magic than to MJ/Pip as a passer, both in type of passes as well as impact/effectiveness of passing. I think the stats back that up.

John Wall 42.47
Russell Westbrook 42.27

That's the percentage of the teams assist that you get. LeBron's an ISO player that likes to be surrounded by shooters. That's why his team usually ranks near the bottom of the league in passing. That doesn't make him a great play-maker like Magic Johnson.

Guys like Nash, Stockton, and Magic are WAY above the likes of LeBron. That's not an insult, he just isn't close.

[dreamshake]

His play making doesn't even come close to Magic Johnson. There is nothing there other than the height and the fact that they can both play PG. Magic is leaps and bounds ahead of him in that department. I can not stress enough that this is in no way accurate. LeBrons passing is much more similar to that of Jordan or Pippen.

Completely disagree.

Career AST%
Magic 40.9
LeBron 35.4
Jordan 24.9
Pippen 23.1

IMO LeBron is much closer to Magic than to MJ/Pip as a passer, both in type of passes as well as impact/effectiveness of passing. I think the stats back that up.

John Wall 42.47
Russell Westbrook 42.27

That's the percentage of the teams assist that you get. LeBron's an ISO player that likes to be surrounded by shooters. That's why his team usually ranks near the bottom of the league in passing. That doesn't make him a great play-maker like Magic Johnson.

Guys like Nash, Stockton, and Magic are WAY above the likes of LeBron. That's not an insult, he just isn't close.

So you posted 2 more really good playmakers? I mean I agree that AST% isn't a perfect measure of playmaking. One difference between LeBron and the guys you posted though is that LeBron has put up those AST%s while leading some all-time great level offenses (as have Magic, Nash - and currently Harden). Check the Ortg of some of those Cavs/Heat offenses in the all-time rankings.

[Missing Rings]

The issue with these comparisons is that Scottie Pippen and Karl Malone are simply lesser players than LeBron and people are taking offense to that.

For me personally, LeBron is as unique as it gets. He has vision comparable to Magic Johnson (albeit not as great) and his basketball IQ is simply in the "god tier", ahead of someone like Michael Jordan or Scottie Pippen. LeBron's ability to score the basketball is unique in that he has the body frame of a player like Karl Malone but the ability to drive and react on the fly like Russell Westbrook. His shooting from mid-range isn't as good as Michael Jordan, but it is much better than Scottie Pippen. LeBron's footwork isn't in the level of Kobe Bryant's, but it is still great and much better than 95% of the NBA at any given time period.