Robert Covington vs Dario Saric

[Zingod]

Who's better now and long term?

[Eskobar13]

Well you don't need to choose one if you're the Sixers, but obviously right now Bob Cov is the better player - is impact is really huge and RPM, raw on/off amongst others corroborate this.

However Saric is still young and improving and you could say he was the better player in December. If he's 3 ball holds he has the chance to be really really good offensively... problem will always be his defense and ultimately if I really had to choose, Covington still at 27 and already locked to a very fair contract might be the better prospect for years to come as well.

[clyde21]

I'll go with Covington. He's actually already one of the elite role players in the league and contributes in a lot of ways on both sides of the court. Saric's best case scenario is what Covington is now.

[loveandbeer]

I’m not a huge fan of Saric - not reallt sure what he will be at the height of his potential. As of right now, he’s still bot a very good player.

Give me the guy who has shown he can be impactful.

[lavta]

Covington. He's more valuable to Philly, there's some redundancy with some of Saric's skills but Dario still compliments others well with the lineup connector role which should be a good sign of adaptability. I think Covington is better now but Saric might be more valuable to a team that has player(s) of Covington's archetype even with likely less production but who are also willing to take more value out of Saric's off-ball cutting and catch-and-attacks with a less crucial floor spacing role that Philly prefers or has to prefer to play him at. That makes him too much stationary for a read and react player.

[GeorgeMarcus]

Covington is the better/more versatile defender, and doesn't need a lot of space to get his shot off. He's the ideal 3&D role player, and for that reason offers more value to the Sixers next to Embiid/Simmons.

Saric is better at creating offense, both for himself and other players. I would argue Saric has the higher ceiling, and is a better fit for rebuilding teams or teams in need of a higher-usage option.

[BossaNova13]

Saric is better and 3,5 years younger.

It's pretty ridicilous how overrated Covington has become.

What he can do? Shoot open 3s and sort of defend? Nice.

Saric is a much better all around player with higher bball iq. Its not close.

[sixerswillrule]

Saric is better and 3,5 years younger.

It's pretty ridicilous how overrated Covington has become.

What he can do? Shoot open 3s and sort of defend? Nice.

Saric is a much better all around player with higher bball iq. Its not close.

The Sixers with Embiid, Simmons, and Covington on the floor but without Saric score 14 points per 100 possessions more than their opponent.

The Sixers with Embiid, Simmons, and Saric on the floor but without Covington score 2 points per 100 possessions more than their opponent.

It's mostly thanks to the team defense being much better with the Covington lineup than the Saric lineup. The team offense does about the same in both lineups.

Covington is just a far more effective defender. Saric's offense doesn't make up for it.

[Jaivl]

Probably best wing defender in the league with Roberson out -> "sort of defend".

[BossaNova13]

Probably best wing defender in the league with Roberson out -> "sort of defend".

[Ascrilas]

Covington is probably still better, but he has been called underrated so often that he is on the realm of becoming ridiculously overrated if you ask me, whereas Saric is legit underrated.

Covington's defense is elite but I think people understate how limited he is as an offensive player. I am not convinced about the "3" part in his 3&D label, in a vacuum, I'd rate his offensive abilities to be average at best. I am aware of Covington's RPM numbers but those should always be taken with a grain of salt. To me, RPM (as every adjusted plus-minus score) does not rate how good a player is but how well a player fulfills his role. That's why you can say on the base of RPM for example that Tyus Jones is a very influential player when doing what he is asked to do while still understanding that he's not the 9th best player in the league.
Covington is playing in a starting lineup in which he is the 5th most talented offensive player which allows him to fulfill the role he is best at, being one of the best and most tenacious wing defenders in the league who can hit down the open 3 at a reasonable rate. Would you surround him with worse offensive players, forcing him to embrace a bigger offensive role, I am very sure he'd be a net negative on offense again. (He had a negative ORPM in the three years prior to this season.) Don't get me wrong, I think Covington is a good player, but he is not as good as RPM paints him, think of Jae Crowder who looked beastly in this regard when he was playing in a system which used his capabilities perfectly.

Saric is an odd case being somewhat of a tweener and a jack off all trades. His defense will never be more than acceptable due to his athletic limitations (footspeed, hops and T-rex wingspan), but I think he projects to be an okay-ish defender due to his high bball IQ and effort/energy level, I am pretty confident that he can be at least a net zero on this end of the floor some day, if not a bit more. I remember some games where he actually did play very good defense (e.g. against Blake Griffin), and he is a fine defensive rebounder.
Offensively, I think more people should talk about the huge leap he has taken this year. Last season, he was mostly putting up empty stats on low efficiency on a injury-riddled roster depleted of talent. Now he is actually on the verge of becoming a borderline-elite shooter which is essential for his future NBA career as he has to able to stretch the floor. He started the season slowly, but since December, he has put up .468/.400/.935 splits, that's a 31 game sample size. In this stretch, he has also had 3.3 APG compared to 2.3 TOV. He had more turnovers than assists last season, so his playmaking ability is starting to translate to an NBA level now that he's gained more experience.
I think one thing with Saric people forget is the huge physical toll he has to bear due to duties for his national team which is a major reason for him starting slow imo. He was near the bottom of the league in RPM after the first two months of the season but has now climbed up to be a significant net-positive overall.

So, to sum it up, give Saric a few more years to develop and maybe one summer in which he doesn't have to play for Croatia and I am confident he will be considered the better player of the two. He is already a better offensive player than Covington will ever be and still has a lot of room to grow, I wouldn't be surprised to see him average something like 17/7/4 on 60% TS with average defense in the near future.

[TTP]

Covington is probably still better, but he has been called underrated so often that he is on the realm of becoming ridiculously overrated if you ask me, whereas Saric is legit underrated.

Covington's defense is elite but I think people understate how limited he is as an offensive player. I am not convinced about the "3" part in his 3&D label, in a vacuum, I'd rate his offensive abilities to be average at best. I am aware of Covington's RPM numbers but those should always be taken with a grain of salt. To me, RPM (as every adjusted plus-minus score) does not rate how good a player is but how well a player fulfills his role. That's why you can say on the base of RPM for example that Tyus Jones is a very influential player when doing what he is asked to do while still understanding that he's not the 9th best player in the league.
Covington is playing in a starting lineup in which he is the 5th most talented offensive player which allows him to fulfill the role he is best at, being one of the best and most tenacious wing defenders in the league who can hit down the open 3 at a reasonable rate. Would you surround him with worse offensive players, forcing him to embrace a bigger offensive role, I am very sure he'd be a net negative on offense again. (He had a negative ORPM in the three years prior to this season.) Don't get me wrong, I think Covington is a good player, but he is not as good as RPM paints him, think of Jae Crowder who looked beastly in this regard when he was playing in a system which used his capabilities perfectly.

Saric is an odd case being somewhat of a tweener and a jack off all trades. His defense will never be more than acceptable due to his athletic limitations (footspeed, hops and T-rex wingspan), but I think he projects to be an okay-ish defender due to his high bball IQ and effort/energy level, I am pretty confident that he can be at least a net zero on this end of the floor some day, if not a bit more. I remember some games where he actually did play very good defense (e.g. against Blake Griffin), and he is a fine defensive rebounder.
Offensively, I think more people should talk about the huge leap he has taken this year. Last season, he was mostly putting up empty stats on low efficiency on a injury-riddled roster depleted of talent. Now he is actually on the verge of becoming a borderline-elite shooter which is essential for his future NBA career as he has to able to stretch the floor. He started the season slowly, but since December, he has put up .468/.400/.935 splits, that's a 31 game sample size. In this stretch, he has also had 3.3 APG compared to 2.3 TOV. He had more turnovers than assists last season, so his playmaking ability is starting to translate to an NBA level now that he's gained more experience.
I think one thing with Saric people forget is the huge physical toll he has to bear due to duties for his national team which is a major reason for him starting slow imo. He was near the bottom of the league in RPM after the first two months of the season but has now climbed up to be a significant net-positive overall.

So, to sum it up, give Saric a few more years to develop and maybe one summer in which he doesn't have to play for Croatia and I am confident he will be considered the better player of the two. He is already a better offensive player than Covington will ever be and still has a lot of room to grow, I wouldn't be surprised to see him average something like 17/7/4 on 60% TS with average defense in the near future.

You make many good points in this post but I don't think the bolded is one of them. I've never liked this type of argument - it's similar to the argument that many make that an elite role player is worse than a good offensive first option because the elite role player can't lead an offense.

It's complicated though, because the same player is going to have different types of value in different situations. The elite role player is going to be far more valuable to a contender than he would be on a team without creators. The good offensive first option is going to be far more valuable on a weak team that doesn't have anyone in that role than on an elite team where you'd rather have the ball in the hands of a superstar.

An example for this argument might be comparing Draymond and DeRozan. In my opinion, Draymond is the better player and it isn't particularly close - if you disagree with that premise, then substitute someone like prime Monta Ellis for DeRozan instead. The DeRozan supporter might argue that Draymond could never be a #1 option and his value decreases the worse his surrounding cast is (similar to what you said about Covington). However, trying to force Draymond to be the #1 option would just be using him incorrectly. It would be like forcing DeRozan to be an off-ball player or expecting him to lead a defense.

I think, if we're trying to say which player is better, we should be evaluating which player creates the most value when they're put in the best circumstance to succeed.

[GeorgeMarcus]

Probably best wing defender in the league with Roberson out -> "sort of defend".

PG and Cov are eerily similar defenders. There isn't really any evidence to support PG being better on that end, and in fact most stats suggest the opposite.

[BossaNova13]

Probably best wing defender in the league with Roberson out -> "sort of defend".

PG and Cov are eerily similar defenders. There isn't really any evidence to support PG being better on that end, and in fact most stats suggest the opposite.

Motivated PG and even Lebron are better than Covington.
Lets see what Rob does in the playoffs against the big boys when it matters if philly makes the playoffs this year.

[Ascrilas]

Have the recent months including the playoffs games so far changed the opinion? Is Saric already better, and if no, when will he be? Next year?

[bondom34]

Still Roco comfortably.

[GSP]

Have the recent months including the playoffs games so far changed the opinion? Is Saric already better, and if no, when will he be? Next year?

Rocos defense has still been great. He was insane in game 1 against Miami on that end

Still Roco is more of a top of the food chain elite role player thats in a certain mold (3&d). Saric will most likely be the better longterm option factoring in improvements.

[TheBonzaiEffect]

Have the recent months including the playoffs games so far changed the opinion? Is Saric already better, and if no, when will he be? Next year?

Rocos defense has still been great. He was insane in game 1 against Miami on that end

Still Roco is more of a top of the food chain elite role player thats in a certain mold (3&d). Saric will most likely be the better longterm option factoring in improvements.

No it hasn't. Dragic has eaten him alive past 2 games.

[dhsilv2]

They're both guys who can excel in certain roles. Covington is more valuable in his role. I could see Saric in an unlikely but realistic team having more value down the road, but he's less versatile if he'll have the same value of covington.

[RCM88x]

PG and Cov are eerily similar defenders. There isn't really any evidence to support PG being better on that end, and in fact most stats suggest the opposite.

Motivated PG and even Lebron are better than Covington.
Lets see what Rob does in the playoffs against the big boys when it matters if philly makes the playoffs this year.

I'm not sure about that anymore honestly.