Giannis vs Healthy Embiid, who you taking?

[Ron Swanson]

I'll take the guy who's actually 8 months younger and is already playing at an MVP level.

[70sFan]

Embiid when healthy is better than Kareem and a top 4 player ever. He is big enough to defend Shaq, is a good passer, shooter, and defender. It was sad to see him have durability problems in his past and hopefully now he can stay healthy and have good longevity.

Holy **** this dude processes.

I can say Embiid has HOF/All time great potential but Kareem has a SERIOUS argument for the GOAT and his accomplishments aren't merely potential right now.

I am saying his skill set is elite. His shooting is better than Kareem. Passing is close, I might give the edge to Embiid. Defense might go to Embiid. A young Kareem coudln't handle prime Shaq, only could in about 1980 and Embiid can handle him already.

Also prime Kareem doesn't have an argument over prime Wilt for Wilt was better at passing, defense, and rebounding and was a very good scorer as well.

If you really think that Embiid is better passer than Kareem then you probably haven't seen any game of Kareem or you just don't understand basketball. Kareem is one of the best passing bigs ever. Embiid has good feel but he still doesn’t understand nuances of the game.

Young Kareem was also better defender than Embiid. I don't care about guarding Shaq, but even in that aspect I'd take Kareem over Embiid clearly. Jabbar at least was clearly taller and very long, Shaq didn't like length. Embiid is clearly smaller than Shaq, he's not strong enough and he doesn't have enough experience in guarding elite post players. I'd also argue that 240 lbs Jabbar could use his strength much better than 270 lbs Embiid. Jabbar was like Duncan or Hakeem in terms of strength - they weren't the heaviest or most ripped players in the league but they could use their bodies better than most players. Duncan did very well against Shaq even though he was much weaker in terms of sheer power. Duncan won positioning battles with Cousins, Gasol, Yao, Howard and many others because of his smart. Kareem was similar - the only player who consistently won against him in the post was Gilmore but Kareem still could contest his shots with length.

Embiid is only better shooter than Kareem and it doesn't make him even remotely close to Jabbar. Rookie Jabbar is more impressive than anything Embiid did up to this point. I say this as huge Embiid fan, JoJo is my favorite player since Duncan retirement but don't make him what he's not yet. His potential is huge and I believe in him (project that he will be MVP at some point), but he's now entire tiers below Jabbar and it's unlikely that he can reach that level.

[SkyHookFTW]

I'll take both...but I picked Embiid by a hair. Both are outlier-types when factoring in size and skill sets. What pushes Embiid ahead for me is that I believe he will be the most impactful defender in the game within two years. He's not far off now.

[Jiminy Glick]

Holy **** this dude processes.

I can say Embiid has HOF/All time great potential but Kareem has a SERIOUS argument for the GOAT and his accomplishments aren't merely potential right now.

I am saying his skill set is elite. His shooting is better than Kareem. Passing is close, I might give the edge to Embiid. Defense might go to Embiid. A young Kareem coudln't handle prime Shaq, only could in about 1980 and Embiid can handle him already.

Also prime Kareem doesn't have an argument over prime Wilt for Wilt was better at passing, defense, and rebounding and was a very good scorer as well.

If you really think that Embiid is better passer than Kareem then you probably haven't seen any game of Kareem or you just don't understand basketball. Kareem is one of the best passing bigs ever. Embiid has good feel but he still doesn’t understand nuances of the game.

Young Kareem was also better defender than Embiid. I don't care about guarding Shaq, but even in that aspect I'd take Kareem over Embiid clearly. Jabbar at least was clearly taller and very long, Shaq didn't like length. Embiid is clearly smaller than Shaq, he's not strong enough and he doesn't have enough experience in guarding elite post players. I'd also argue that 240 lbs Jabbar could use his strength much better than 270 lbs Embiid. Jabbar was like Duncan or Hakeem in terms of strength - they weren't the heaviest or most ripped players in the league but they could use their bodies better than most players. Duncan did very well against Shaq even though he was much weaker in terms of sheer power. Duncan won positioning battles with Cousins, Gasol, Yao, Howard and many others because of his smart. Kareem was similar - the only player who consistently won against him in the post was Gilmore but Kareem still could contest his shots with length.

Embiid is only better shooter than Kareem and it doesn't make him even remotely close to Jabbar. Rookie Jabbar is more impressive than anything Embiid did up to this point. I say this as huge Embiid fan, JoJo is my favorite player since Duncan retirement but don't make him what he's not yet. His potential is huge and I believe in him (project that he will be MVP at some point), but he's now entire tiers below Jabbar and it's unlikely that he can reach that level.

I know Kareem is an elite passer, he used to do drop off passes with him arm extended and high. Very skilled, so is Embiid though, don't sleep on him. Embiid actually has a better assist trajectory than Kareem, he is averaging 3.6 apg this year per 36 while in his second year Kareem averaged 3 apg. Embiid can take people off the dribble which might open up some passes for him though. Kareem was a major part of the offense in terms of passing. Perhaps I exaggerated in that it is too early to say that but the passing potential is there. Also if you take young Kareem over Embiid on prime Shaq that is a huge mistake.

[dhsilv2]

Emibiid > Kareem in terms of passing. Kareem >>> Embiid in terms of court vision. I think the two should be separated.

Not sure on defense. Embiid has all the skills/talent outside of Kareem's length. But he's still learning.

[ackypoo]

I'll take the guy who's actually 8 months younger and is already playing at an MVP level.

yeah, i cant believe this is as close as it is.

ones better now, and younger.

convince yourselves im homering hard. itll make the truth sting less.

[bmurph128]

Freak.

He'll be the best player in the NBA at some point in his career.

Embiid...close. But IMO it's safer to build around a wing. Giannis can play 1-5 and guard 1-5 on most teams in todays NBA.

[sixerswillrule]

I'll take the guy who's actually 8 months younger and is already playing at an MVP level.

yeah, i cant believe this is as close as it is.

ones better now, and younger.

convince yourselves im homering hard. itll make the truth sting less.

Giannis is better now and I have no problem with someone picking him here. He's going to be a top 5 player for years to come. But it makes sense that this is close. Embiid has a damn near MVP level impact already. Despite missing 12 games (where the team plays bad without him) the Sixers record is still almost identical to the Bucks, and it's not like there's a significant difference in supporting casts.

[bleeds_purple]

Tough choice but went with Embiid. If you guarantee me that he will stay healthy late into his 30's, or at least won't have any major injuries, I'm rolling the dice on him. Although I am reasonable, if you promise me that Giannis will have a 37-38% three point shot in a year or two, I'm taking him without hesitation!

Why does Giannis need to have a three point shot though? In the end he's going to be playing Center in crunch time with the ball in his hands. What he needs to do is continue working on a post up game and he will be completely unstoppable.

I'm going with Giannis. He has GOAT potential and I don't say this lightly. There's only really three guys since MJ I felt had that level of potential: LeBron, KD, and Giannis.

Embiid can be a perennial all-star but Giannis' potential is next level.

[70sFan]

Emibiid > Kareem in terms of passing. Kareem >>> Embiid in terms of court vision. I think the two should be separated.

Not sure on defense. Embiid has all the skills/talent outside of Kareem's length. But he's still learning.

Embiid has all the skills and talent to surpass Kareem defensively, but he's not there yet and it's not a given that he will surpass him. I hope so, I love this guy and I want him to be as good as possible. He probably won't match Kareem's offensive peak, though he's quick learner and he can surprise me here.

I don’t understand your point about passing. I agree that Kareem has much better vision than Embiid, but what makes you think that Kareem has worse ability to pass the ball? I have seen Jabbar making Jokic-esque behind the back and behind the head passes. I've seen him making outlet passes almost like Wes Unseld. Embiid has already shown potential to be decent passer but he reminds me more young Hakeem than Jabbar, even skill-wise. Hakeem developed into very good passer later in his career and I predict Embiid to do the same, but I doubt he'll reach Kareem (just like Hakeem didn't).

[skones]

I'll take the guy who's actually 8 months younger and is already playing at an MVP level.

yeah, i cant believe this is as close as it is.

ones better now, and younger.

convince yourselves im homering hard. itll make the truth sting less.

Giannis is better now and I have no problem with someone picking him here. He's going to be a top 5 player for years to come. But it makes sense that this is close. Embiid has a damn near MVP level impact already. Despite missing 12 games (where the team plays bad without him) the Sixers record is still almost identical to the Bucks, and it's not like there's a significant difference in supporting casts.

Already?

Shouldn't it be Giannis is "already an MVP candidate" as he's the younger of the two? Embiid's lack of playing experience shouldn't be used as something to prop him up, those developmental years missed should negate that.

[bleeds_purple]

yeah, i cant believe this is as close as it is.

ones better now, and younger.

convince yourselves im homering hard. itll make the truth sting less.

Giannis is better now and I have no problem with someone picking him here. He's going to be a top 5 player for years to come. But it makes sense that this is close. Embiid has a damn near MVP level impact already. Despite missing 12 games (where the team plays bad without him) the Sixers record is still almost identical to the Bucks, and it's not like there's a significant difference in supporting casts.

Already?

Shouldn't it be Giannis is "already an MVP candidate" as he's the younger of the two? Embiid's lack of playing experience shouldn't be used as something to prop him up, those developmental years missed should negate that.

Youth isn't the only measure. Giannis has a lot more experience. Plus bigs usually take longer to develop.

Ultimately, Giannis is the pick here. It's almost a no brainer. Very surprised the voting is so close.

[70sFan]

I am saying his skill set is elite. His shooting is better than Kareem. Passing is close, I might give the edge to Embiid. Defense might go to Embiid. A young Kareem coudln't handle prime Shaq, only could in about 1980 and Embiid can handle him already.

Also prime Kareem doesn't have an argument over prime Wilt for Wilt was better at passing, defense, and rebounding and was a very good scorer as well.

If you really think that Embiid is better passer than Kareem then you probably haven't seen any game of Kareem or you just don't understand basketball. Kareem is one of the best passing bigs ever. Embiid has good feel but he still doesn’t understand nuances of the game.

Young Kareem was also better defender than Embiid. I don't care about guarding Shaq, but even in that aspect I'd take Kareem over Embiid clearly. Jabbar at least was clearly taller and very long, Shaq didn't like length. Embiid is clearly smaller than Shaq, he's not strong enough and he doesn't have enough experience in guarding elite post players. I'd also argue that 240 lbs Jabbar could use his strength much better than 270 lbs Embiid. Jabbar was like Duncan or Hakeem in terms of strength - they weren't the heaviest or most ripped players in the league but they could use their bodies better than most players. Duncan did very well against Shaq even though he was much weaker in terms of sheer power. Duncan won positioning battles with Cousins, Gasol, Yao, Howard and many others because of his smart. Kareem was similar - the only player who consistently won against him in the post was Gilmore but Kareem still could contest his shots with length.

Embiid is only better shooter than Kareem and it doesn't make him even remotely close to Jabbar. Rookie Jabbar is more impressive than anything Embiid did up to this point. I say this as huge Embiid fan, JoJo is my favorite player since Duncan retirement but don't make him what he's not yet. His potential is huge and I believe in him (project that he will be MVP at some point), but he's now entire tiers below Jabbar and it's unlikely that he can reach that level.

I know Kareem is an elite passer, he used to do drop off passes with him arm extended and high. Very skilled, so is Embiid though, don't sleep on him. Embiid actually has a better assist trajectory than Kareem, he is averaging 3.6 apg this year per 36 while in his second year Kareem averaged 3 apg. Embiid can take people off the dribble which might open up some passes for him though. Kareem was a major part of the offense in terms of passing. Perhaps I exaggerated in that it is too early to say that but the passing potential is there. Also if you take young Kareem over Embiid on prime Shaq that is a huge mistake.

But what makes you believe that he would be so much better option on Shaq? His heavier body? Kareem at least played against plenty of great, strong, big post up centers - Wilt, Lanier, Bellamy, Gilmore in pre-season games. He defended the post much more than Embiid who hasn't played against any dominant low post bigman in Shaq fashion. Kareem in his first year played basketball for much longer and he had much more experience than young JoJo. Embiid is still learning and throwing on him prime Shaq is just not fair. Kareem was almost finished product in his rookie season.

[skones]

Giannis is better now and I have no problem with someone picking him here. He's going to be a top 5 player for years to come. But it makes sense that this is close. Embiid has a damn near MVP level impact already. Despite missing 12 games (where the team plays bad without him) the Sixers record is still almost identical to the Bucks, and it's not like there's a significant difference in supporting casts.

Already?

Shouldn't it be Giannis is "already an MVP candidate" as he's the younger of the two? Embiid's lack of playing experience shouldn't be used as something to prop him up, those developmental years missed should negate that.

Youth isn't the only measure. Giannis has a lot more experience.

Which is why I explicitly stated what I did in my post.

[Ron Swanson]

Saying that anyone is/was a better prospect than young Kareem is <insert more appropriate word here>. We've officially reached peak Embiid hyperbole.

[SKG]

When embiid can play b2b games 40 mpg and 78+ games in a season and still perform.... then we can talk

[70sFan]

When embiid can play b2b games 40 mpg and 78+ games in a season and still perform.... then we can talk

Although I get your point, today stars don't play 40 mpg anymore. He won't accomplish that almost certainly. 35-36 mpg is enough to start disscusion.

[dhsilv2]

Emibiid > Kareem in terms of passing. Kareem >>> Embiid in terms of court vision. I think the two should be separated.

Not sure on defense. Embiid has all the skills/talent outside of Kareem's length. But he's still learning.

Embiid has all the skills and talent to surpass Kareem defensively, but he's not there yet and it's not a given that he will surpass him. I hope so, I love this guy and I want him to be as good as possible. He probably won't match Kareem's offensive peak, though he's quick learner and he can surprise me here.

I don’t understand your point about passing. I agree that Kareem has much better vision than Embiid, but what makes you think that Kareem has worse ability to pass the ball? I have seen Jabbar making Jokic-esque behind the back and behind the head passes. I've seen him making outlet passes almost like Wes Unseld. Embiid has already shown potential to be decent passer but he reminds me more young Hakeem than Jabbar, even skill-wise. Hakeem developed into very good passer later in his career and I predict Embiid to do the same, but I doubt he'll reach Kareem (just like Hakeem didn't).

I think Embiid places the ball where he wants it through traffic better. I think he also is more a risk taker which I think net net is valuable. All that's left is just knowing when/where. I see nothing Hakeem about this passing, but I'll not get into my thoughts there.

On defense Embiid might already be better at the rim than kareem, he's a great rim defender.

[GeorgeMarcus]

I'll take the guy who's actually 8 months younger and is already playing at an MVP level.

If Giannis is playing at an MVP level, I think you have to say the same about Embiid. And sure Giannis is 8 months younger but coming off 2 1/2 seasons of rust takes time.

[sixerswillrule]

yeah, i cant believe this is as close as it is.

ones better now, and younger.

convince yourselves im homering hard. itll make the truth sting less.

Giannis is better now and I have no problem with someone picking him here. He's going to be a top 5 player for years to come. But it makes sense that this is close. Embiid has a damn near MVP level impact already. Despite missing 12 games (where the team plays bad without him) the Sixers record is still almost identical to the Bucks, and it's not like there's a significant difference in supporting casts.

Already?

Shouldn't it be Giannis is "already an MVP candidate" as he's the younger of the two? Embiid's lack of playing experience shouldn't be used as something to prop him up, those developmental years missed should negate that.

Missing those developmental years means that his prime will be delayed, which of course isn't a good thing (e.g. hitting his prime in his 4th season on the court at age 25 instead of his 4th season on the court at age 23). So the longevity is in Giannis' favor. But I think in a prime vs. prime argument, Embiid having this kind of impact in his 2nd season on the court is extremely impressive, which is what I meant by already.

But to simplify things, forgetting experience and age - On a per minute basis, Embiid right now has an impact close to Giannis. So the poll results being close makes sense.