Who is the Goat Offensive PF

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GOAT offensive PF

Barkley
17
22%
Nowitzki
53
67%
Pettit
1
1%
Malone
6
8%
Other
2
3%
 
Total votes: 79

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Re: Who is the Goat Offensive PF 

Post#21 » by eminence » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:34 pm

Dirk is the pretty clear choice imo. LeBron if we include him, but he's spent most of his time at SF.
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Re: Who is the Goat Offensive PF 

Post#22 » by pelifan » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:48 pm

penbeast0 wrote:Regular season I would say Malone; postseason included, it gets harder. Offense only I'm probably agreeing with Dirk, Barkley was too careless and pounded the ball an awful lot.


Barkley still had top rated offenses just about every year of his prime though.
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Re: Who is the Goat Offensive PF 

Post#23 » by pelifan » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:50 pm

70sFan wrote:
Laimbeer wrote:
Jaivl wrote:And not better offensively than Dirk.


I think I'd disagree on this one. KD's offensive game is more versatile and he can hurt you in more ways.


Quality over quantity. Dirk's high post game and spacing is more valuable than anything KD can bring you. Also, he's smarter offensive player who turn the ball over less.


And does a better job playing off of others.
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Re: Who is the Goat Offensive PF 

Post#24 » by TonyG » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:12 pm

I can tell most people that post here never saw prime Barkley or prime Malone. I guess for them to be correct with their comments the question would've needed to be who is the best three point shooting PF ever. That would be Dirk. but best offensive would be Barkley because he was the best at everything, inside, mid, post game, long range, fast break, semi fast break, turning defense into quick offense passing. etc etc. Also he was one of the best help defenders ever. And one of the best shot blockers ever for his height. If he was 7 feet he would've averaged 4 blocks per game.
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Re: Who is the Goat Offensive PF 

Post#25 » by Joao Saraiva » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:26 pm

Career wise Karl Malone. His longevity is just absurd.

On his best years... I'd say Charles Barkley. Handling was superb for the position, super efficient scoring and he was a tremendous offensive rebounder.

With the way people are comenting I'm assuming it's prime wise... so I'll vote Charles.
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Re: Who is the Goat Offensive PF 

Post#26 » by TonyG » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:39 pm

eminence wrote:Dirk is the pretty clear choice imo. LeBron if we include him, but he's spent most of his time at SF.


WHY!!!! could someone question you for once. What you say isn't fact pokemon kid. No no no. Need to stop doing this. trex

Malone averaged 28 a game for his prime 10 years.
Barkley averaged 25 for his prime years and on 55% shooting with 4.5 assists per game. That's more efficient It's also just better stats. Barkley drew so many double and triple teams in his career it's not even funny. Also 4 offensive rebounds per game which give his team 4 more shots than the other team while most games are decided by 3-4 points. So he is the difference in winning.

Prime Barkley rarely had prime superstars like Finley and Nash on his team or Star players like Terry, Tyson, Kidd, Marion, etc etc.
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Re: Who is the Goat Offensive PF 

Post#27 » by youngcrev » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:50 pm

I went with Dirk as well, but it's close between him and Barkley
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Re: Who is the Goat Offensive PF 

Post#28 » by TonyG » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:53 pm

youngcrev wrote:I went with Dirk as well, but it's close between him and Barkley


Why?
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Re: Who is the Goat Offensive PF 

Post#29 » by Jaivl » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:55 pm

TonyG wrote:Prime Barkley rarely had prime superstars like Finley and Nash on his team

You mean the guy that played with Moses, Hakeem, Kevin Johnson and Drexler?
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Re: Who is the Goat Offensive PF 

Post#30 » by TonyG » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:09 pm

Jaivl wrote:
TonyG wrote:Prime Barkley rarely had prime superstars like Finley and Nash on his team

You mean the guy that played with Moses, Hakeem, Kevin Johnson and Drexler?



Had Moses at age 33 after he was done winning. Hakeem was 34 and done, KJ was 28 but injured one of those seasons and he only had him for about 2 seasons of his career. Drexler was like 35 and getting ready to retire.

Finely was 22/ 5/ 5 / 1.5 player that was a do it all player and in his prime with Dirk's entire first 6 seasons. Also Nash was a two time MVP and Dirk had prime Nash on his team for about 3-4 seasons.
Also big centers like Dampier, Diop, Tyson for many many years of his career.

Barkley had Gemiski, Shayves and Declerq at center most of his career in a era when you needed something at center.

Only had West and Malone for about 3 years total. Hakeem was later and back then players didn't play as long for the money like now. Back then if you were 34 or 35 you were pretty much brought down to 1 million a year and players would just retire by 36 or so. Now days players can coast and make 10 million a year until they're 40.


Dirk's teams and players on his teams were much much better than Barkley had for his career. Also Dirk had a better coach in Don Nelson who is a Hall of Fame coach and top 4 or 5 coach of all time.

Prime Barkley with Prime Finley and Prime Nash with Van Exel, Lafrentz and Walt Williams off the bench would've beat everyone.
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Re: Who is the Goat Offensive PF 

Post#31 » by Jim Naismith » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:15 pm

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Re: Who is the Goat Offensive PF 

Post#32 » by TheBonzaiEffect » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:40 am

TonyG wrote:
eminence wrote:Dirk is the pretty clear choice imo. LeBron if we include him, but he's spent most of his time at SF.


WHY!!!! could someone question you for once. What you say isn't fact pokemon kid.

Malone averaged 28 a game for his prime 10 years.
Barkley averaged 25 for his prime years and on 55% shooting with 4.5 assists per game. That's more efficient It's also just better stats. Barkley drew so many double and triple teams in his career it's not even funny. Also 4 offensive rebounds per game which give his team 4 more shots than the other team while most games are decided by 3-4 points. So he is the difference in winning.

Prime Barkley rarely had prime superstars like Finley and Nash on his team or Star players like Terry, Tyson, Kidd, Marion, etc etc.



:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Who is the Goat Offensive PF 

Post#33 » by Morb » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:51 am

Bob McAdoo played on C?
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Re: Who is the Goat Offensive PF 

Post#34 » by 70sFan » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:08 am

Morb wrote:Bob McAdoo played on C?


I always thought of him as a PF but the reality is that he played mostly at center. Buffalo didn't have any notable center in his prime. In Knicks he played with Spencer Haywood (full career PF), though he also played with Phil Jackson who was center.

In Lakers he played a lot of time with Kareem abd then he was definitely a forward but he also played as Kareem backup.

It's fair to call him simply bigman, he's not clear center and not clear PF either. I prefer listing him at PF list and if that's true, then he definitely belongs to this conversation. The guy was outstanding scorer, really on Dirk/Barkley/Malone/Pettit tier.
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Re: Who is the Goat Offensive PF 

Post#35 » by Baz » Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:18 am

Dirk Nowiztki.
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Re: Who is the Goat Offensive PF 

Post#36 » by Hawk » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:16 pm

I voted for Barkley. I think he was the most unstoppable offensive PF and I find his offensive rebounding really valuable. In terms of individual offensive impact, I think he has the highest one.

On the other hand, I think Dirk's skillset helps his team's offense more than Barkley does, so that makes this close.
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Re: Who is the Goat Offensive PF 

Post#37 » by TonyG » Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:17 pm

Hawk wrote:I voted for Barkley. I think he was the most unstoppable offensive PF and I find his offensive rebounding really valuable. In terms of individual offensive impact, I think he has the highest one.

On the other hand, I think Dirk's skillset helps his team's offense more than Barkley does, so that makes this close.



You're right. Also I believe he has the all time highest Offensive Rating in Playoff History.

His playoff numbers are around 26/ 13 / 5 / 2 / 1/ and on 54%

Also his game 7 or game 5 elimination games he averages 28/ 18 / 5 / 2 / 1 / on 55% shooting.

he may have the best stats ever in elimination games.
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Re: Who is the Goat Offensive PF 

Post#38 » by Texas Chuck » Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:50 pm

Chuck is the best individual scorer imo, but Dirk's complete offensive game and the impact it has on teammates makes him the choice for me here. Glad to hear Pau get a shout, tho he was as much center as PF if not more and just not quite on the elite level as some others. But man was he a terrific offensive player.
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Re: Who is the Goat Offensive PF 

Post#39 » by Goudelock » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:19 pm

70sFan wrote:
Morb wrote:Bob McAdoo played on C?


I always thought of him as a PF but the reality is that he played mostly at center. Buffalo didn't have any notable center in his prime. In Knicks he played with Spencer Haywood (full career PF), though he also played with Phil Jackson who was center.

In Lakers he played a lot of time with Kareem abd then he was definitely a forward but he also played as Kareem backup.

It's fair to call him simply bigman, he's not clear center and not clear PF either. I prefer listing him at PF list and if that's true, then he definitely belongs to this conversation. The guy was outstanding scorer, really on Dirk/Barkley/Malone/Pettit tier.


I love me some Bob McAdoo, but even if he's a PF, did he have the passing chops that any of the other guys you mentioned had? He knew how to pass, but he wasn't the most willing, at least from the games that I've seen.
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Re: Who is the Goat Offensive PF 

Post#40 » by trex_8063 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:07 pm

TonyG wrote:
Hawk wrote:I voted for Barkley. I think he was the most unstoppable offensive PF and I find his offensive rebounding really valuable. In terms of individual offensive impact, I think he has the highest one.

On the other hand, I think Dirk's skillset helps his team's offense more than Barkley does, so that makes this close.



You're right. Also I believe he has the all time highest Offensive Rating in Playoff History.

His playoff numbers are around 26/ 13 / 5 / 2 / 1/ and on 54%

Also his game 7 or game 5 elimination games he averages 28/ 18 / 5 / 2 / 1 / on 55% shooting.

he may have the best stats ever in elimination games.



Barkley's a valid pick here. But fwiw, there are additional [and more sophisticated] means of assessing offensive value than box totals and FG%; and that's where people are coming from.
Even ORtg [was mentioned] has it's biases, which can create highly questionable results--->e.g. current league leader among regular rotational players with significant game sample is Ekpe Udoh.......2nd is Chris Paul, but then 3rd is Dwight Powell, 4th is a tie between Karl-Anthony Towns, Steven Adams, and Tomas Satoransky; next is Clint Capella; then a tie between DeAndre Jordan, Darren Collison, and Tristan Thompson, etc.
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