The Lebron Thread (2017 - 18 Pt. 3)

[Goudelock]

My mother on the whether or not LeBron is the GOAT (after I said that LeBron is one of the top 10 players of all time):

LeBron is a dominant player and is a generational talent, but I don't see how you can say that he's better than MJ or Magic or any of those great players. The eras are so different that it's impossible to compare players from different times. There's a bunch of great players who were great in their time too, so how can you say one was better than the others or rank them? LeBron is great and let's just leave it at that.

And then you've got my dad (who has seen every player since Wilt on the Lakers), who was proclaiming in 2013 that LeBron was a better player at his peak than MJ or any other player he's ever seen

[mysticOscar]

My mother on the whether or not LeBron is the GOAT (after I said that LeBron is one of the top 10 players of all time):

LeBron is a dominant player and is a generational talent, but I don't see how you can say that he's better than MJ or Magic or any of those great players. The eras are so different that it's impossible to compare players from different times. There's a bunch of great players who were great in their time too, so how can you say one was better than the others or rank them? LeBron is great and let's just leave it at that.

And then you've got my dad (who has seen every player since Wilt on the Lakers), who was proclaiming in 2013 that LeBron was a better player at his peak than MJ or any other player he's ever seen

I think LBJ is the MJ of this generation. His built and speed to the basket is just too hard to stop in today's 3pt era and space game...let alone when he starts knocking down jumpshots while surrounded with 3pt shooters.

Just like MJ's speed, body control with contact around the basket and his midrange...him and Lebron has some real cheat code's that other players don't really possess which makes them really consistent versus there peers.

I've watched both MJ and LBJ. Where i have MJ above Lebron is in the off ball prowess. MJ knows how to move without the ball and can accumulate the stats and very impactful without having to run the offense completely though him.

The other thing also is MJ's jumpshot consistency. LBJ if teleported across to the 90s, with limited 3pt shooters and camping big men...I don't think he would be as consistent as he is today in terms of efficiency in scoring. In reverse, MJ teleported today, surrounded by 3pt shooters, i believe individually he would have even been more efficient with even more godly stats.

But those opinions of opinion does not matter. These players only play what is in front of them. Hence, if LBJ can win championships the same frequency as the all time greats doing his way...regardless of his game style in his respective era....then you have to give credit where credit is due.

[dhsilv2]

My mother on the whether or not LeBron is the GOAT (after I said that LeBron is one of the top 10 players of all time):

LeBron is a dominant player and is a generational talent, but I don't see how you can say that he's better than MJ or Magic or any of those great players. The eras are so different that it's impossible to compare players from different times. There's a bunch of great players who were great in their time too, so how can you say one was better than the others or rank them? LeBron is great and let's just leave it at that.

And then you've got my dad (who has seen every player since Wilt on the Lakers), who was proclaiming in 2013 that LeBron was a better player at his peak than MJ or any other player he's ever seen

I think LBJ is the MJ of this generation. His built and speed to the basket is just too hard to stop in today's 3pt era and space game...let alone when he starts knocking down jumpshots while surrounded with 3pt shooters.

Just like MJ's speed, body control with contact around the basket and his midrange...him and Lebron has some real cheat code's that other players don't really possess which makes them really consistent versus there peers.

I've watched both MJ and LBJ. Where i have MJ above Lebron is in the off ball prowess. MJ knows how to move without the ball and can accumulate the stats and very impactful without having to run the offense completely though him.

The other thing also is MJ's jumpshot consistency. LBJ if teleported across to the 90s, with limited 3pt shooters and camping big men...I don't think he would be as consistent as he is today in terms of efficiency in scoring. In reverse, MJ teleported today, surrounded by 3pt shooters, i believe individually he would have even been more efficient with even more godly stats.

But those opinions of opinion does not matter. These players only play what is in front of them. Hence, if LBJ can win championships the same frequency as the all time greats doing his way...regardless of his game style in his respective era....then you have to give credit where credit is due.

Two players I HATE to compare against eras are MJ and Lebron. The reason being they both completely changed their bodies as they played, hired trainers, changed their weight class, etc etc. Lebron might have been a 290 pound low post monster in the 90's, he was rumored at 275 for a stretch in Miami and I'm not sure that was too far exaggerated. These guys would find a way in any era to shape themselves to the rules/style. Though neither was ever going to be a 3 point shooter. That's a hand thing.

[ChrisKreager]

I do wonder if he has an expiration date. All these points/minutes..... unless he's immortal.

Think of all the mileage year after year. And he seemingly does NOT slow down.

[ardee]

If they make the Finals, he could break the all-time single Playoffs WS record. Duncan did 5.9 in 2003, LeBron is already at 2.8.

[INKtastic]

Watch on YouTube

[rich316]

One thing that I'm noticing that's different about Lebron's game this postseason: he has become incredibly good at responding to physical defense on his drives. There was one post up on Lowry in the 4th where Lowry was pushing up into him with his body, and Lebron just extended a hard left elbow as he drove and took Lowry completely out of the play. Then on another drive past Siakam, Siakam stuck his arm into his dribbling pocket and smacked his off-arm and torso, and Lebron hooked with his off-arm and basically dragged him off balance. The kind of stuff the refs can't call against Lebron, because the defender is initiating contact and the refs have decided they can't call fouls on every play, even though that's the only way to contain him. Really great moves, and a phenomenal showing for how he can keep using his strength to get to the rim, because he's always going to be the strongest guy on the court even as his speed slowly diminishes.

[SideshowBob]

New thread

[Heej]

My mother on the whether or not LeBron is the GOAT (after I said that LeBron is one of the top 10 players of all time):

LeBron is a dominant player and is a generational talent, but I don't see how you can say that he's better than MJ or Magic or any of those great players. The eras are so different that it's impossible to compare players from different times. There's a bunch of great players who were great in their time too, so how can you say one was better than the others or rank them? LeBron is great and let's just leave it at that.

And then you've got my dad (who has seen every player since Wilt on the Lakers), who was proclaiming in 2013 that LeBron was a better player at his peak than MJ or any other player he's ever seen

When I talk to some of the old guys at my job that love Kareem and Dr J they say the same thing. The game is too different now than it was 20 years ago and Lebron is a different player. As I age this take resonates more and more with me. I eagerly await the next generational talent that has a peak comparable to these two. And I suspect when it comes to that time my take is going to be very much like this. They're all great, let's leave it at that.

It just amazes me that the people who worship MJ the most are cats who were too young to ever see him play. Like the one Sig some dude on RealGM has where the guy's like "Im 18 and I've seen every MJ game". Just give it a rest lol.

[dontcalltimeout]

How much can he rise in RPM this playoffs? Kinda disappointed with the increase so far..

I don't think it's been updated to include the playoffs yet. He's at 4.77 through the Regular season. I think he can go up to like 5.5 if he plays enough series but any higher would be very difficult.

It was updated today. Numbers are different from the 4/13 update (after RS ended). His DRPM jumped from -0.76 to -0.59, and jumped up from #15 to #13.

He's now at #14 overall. ORPM at #3, but substantially below Curry/Harden with +5.61. DRPM back down to -0.77

[homecourtloss]

If they make the Finals, he could break the all-time single Playoffs WS record. Duncan did 5.9 in 2003, LeBron is already at 2.8.

Duncan played 24 games that playoffs season. If James plays 6 and 6 vs Bos and GS, he gets to 23 games and would have a chance providing he’s not awful in the losses. Or, he could have 4 really good games vs Boston and carries them like he did vs the Pacers where nobody else does anything and get like 2 to 2.3 and then get juet enough in the finals.

[SideshowBob]

I don't think it's been updated to include the playoffs yet. He's at 4.77 through the Regular season. I think he can go up to like 5.5 if he plays enough series but any higher would be very difficult.

It was updated today. Numbers are different from the 4/13 update (after RS ended). His DRPM jumped from -0.76 to -0.59, and jumped up from #15 to #13.

He's now at #14 overall. ORPM at #3, but substantially below Curry/Harden with +5.61. DRPM back down to -0.77

Last week he was down to #15 again so this was an improvement

His defense looked good in the last series but Toronto put up a 112.2 ORTG in the series (Cleveland 127.3 ) so the whole team's numbers were gonna go down after that one.

[dontcalltimeout]

It was updated today. Numbers are different from the 4/13 update (after RS ended). His DRPM jumped from -0.76 to -0.59, and jumped up from #15 to #13.

He's now at #14 overall. ORPM at #3, but substantially below Curry/Harden with +5.61. DRPM back down to -0.77

Last week he was down to #15 again so this was an improvement

His defense looked good in the last series but Toronto put up a 112.2 ORTG in the series (Cleveland 127.3 ) so the whole team's numbers were gonna go down after that one.

Yea Toronto's offense wasn't really the problem for them ( i may be the one guy in the world that still believes in Lowry). Per nba stats, LeBron's oncourt drtg was 112.5 in the series but Cleveland's overall drtg was 110.1 so it would be surprising if his defensive numbers improved.

On a broader note I really think his playing 82 games hurt him in the APM. The sample of minutes without him is a lot smaller.

[SideshowBob]

He's now at #14 overall. ORPM at #3, but substantially below Curry/Harden with +5.61. DRPM back down to -0.77

Last week he was down to #15 again so this was an improvement

His defense looked good in the last series but Toronto put up a 112.2 ORTG in the series (Cleveland 127.3 ) so the whole team's numbers were gonna go down after that one.

Yea Toronto's offense wasn't really the problem for them ( i may be the one guy in the world that still believes in Lowry). Per nba stats, LeBron's oncourt drtg was 112.5 in the series but Cleveland's overall drtg was 110.1 so it would be surprising if his defensive numbers improved.

On a broader note I really think his playing 82 games hurt him in the APM. The sample of minutes without him is a lot smaller.

Probably did, but his APM is meaningless outside of PC Board/Twitter discussions . Shouldn't be a huge deal - I think there are plenty of player seasons that are held in higher/lower regard by reasonable analysts than what APM type stats would indicate. They're not the end-all.