Artis vs Kareem 1983 WCF matchup - with footage

[70sFan]

Hello, I'm working on Arits vs Kareem project from 1983 WCF. I have all games and I'll upload more footage later. Let's start with Game 1. Enjoy

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[Jim Naismith]

WCF

[70sFan]

WCF

Thanks, misclick.

[70sFan]

Game 1 was Kareem domination and Gilmore problems with fouls. Second game of the series will be definitely more enjoyable, I'm going to share it this weekend

[penbeast0]

I was more impressed with Artis's passing than Kareem's which surprised me.

[70sFan]

I was more impressed with Artis's passing than Kareem's which surprised me.

It's the most underrated part of A-Train game. Despite turnovers numbers, he was willing and good passer. Not better than Kareem who was elite one, but better than some want to assume based on boxscores.

[70sFan]

I'll upload Game 2 highlights tomorrow. Much closer duel with some spectacular plays

[70sFan]

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Another two games, more well-rounded performance by A-Train and Kareem pretty great too

[jptremblay]

Thanks man...dedicated for those who claim that low post-game is boring...now we only see brick after brick for most teams.

[trex_8063]

I was more impressed with Artis's passing than Kareem's.....

Really? I was the opposite. Examples for Kareem in the OP clip:

5:03 - Kareem makes a nice pass out of double-team to the open shooter (though could argue he missed such an opportunity on the very next play, opting to take a difficult shot himself).

5:35 - Excellent full-court outlet pass.

6:07 - Another nice pass out of the double-team to the open shooter.

6:17 - Excellent assist from the high-post to the backdoor cutter.

EDIT: in the 2nd uploaded clip at 1:05, Kareem makes another nice pass from the high-post off the one dribble.


I didn't see as much of this from Gilmore. In fact, if we look at the play at 6:27 we see him miss a clear lay-up pass.

Other thing I'm wondering about Gilmore based on the clip in the OP: did he not really have a right-handed jump-hook? He has a couple good opportunities to use a right-hander (if he had one in his repertoire), but instead opts to use his left hand on the inside of the turn, getting blocked by Kareem both times as a result. These plays are at 4:27 and 5:45.

[70sFan]

Other thing I'm wondering about Gilmore based on the clip in the OP: did he not really have a right-handed jump-hook? He has a couple good opportunities to use a right-hander (if he had one in his repertoire), but instead opts to use his left hand on the inside of the turn, getting blocked by Kareem both times as a results. These plays are at 4:27 and 5:45.

He didn't have right handed hook shot. I've watched over 40 games with him and he didn't use right handed hook in any of them. He used left handed moves to finish on either sides. Most of the times he was too big and too strong to be bothered but Kareem was huge himself. Still, Artis finished in those situations against Kareem more often than not.

[70sFan]

did he not really have a right-handed jump-hook?

I quote you and nump this thread because I found one example of Gilmore's right handed jump hook. It's still only one example in ~40 games, but I was wrong when I said he didn't use right hook shot at all. Look out:

Watch on YouTube

It looks quite nice, good form and excellent touch. I don't know why he didn't use it often.

[trex_8063]

did he not really have a right-handed jump-hook?

I quote you and nump this thread because I found one example of Gilmore's right handed jump hook. It's still only one example in ~40 games, but I was wrong when I said he didn't use right hook shot at all. Look out:

Watch on YouTube

It looks quite nice, good form and excellent touch. I don't know why he didn't use it often.

Ah-ha, there it is (found it at 1:54 mark). It does look decent; shame he didn't develop and/or use it more. There were several other opportunities to use it within this clip; but in all the other opportunities he opted to lean in and use his inside [left] hand.

He does make a couple of nice passes out of double [occasionally triple-ish] teams; one or two nice flip passes to a curling shooter, too. He misses an open shooter here, an open cutter there, too, though.

[70sFan]

did he not really have a right-handed jump-hook?

I quote you and nump this thread because I found one example of Gilmore's right handed jump hook. It's still only one example in ~40 games, but I was wrong when I said he didn't use right hook shot at all. Look out:

Watch on YouTube

It looks quite nice, good form and excellent touch. I don't know why he didn't use it often.

Ah-ha, there it is (found it at 1:54 mark). It does look decent; shame he didn't develop and/or use it more. There were several other opportunities to use it within this clip; but in all the other opportunities he opted to lean in and use his inside [left] hand.

He does make a couple of nice passes out of double [occasionally triple-ish] teams; one or two nice flip passes to a curling shooter, too. He misses an open shooter here, an open cutter there, too, though.

Well, most huge and powerful post scorers didn't use his weaker hand often. Wilt didn't use it at all, Shaq also prefered his right. The only one who used it fairly often was Kareem, but he wasn't as imposing.

Gilmore from my observations was willing passer with decent touch on his passes. He didn't have great vision which made him far less dangerous than his rival Kareem on offense, but he wasn't bad passer and many people call him terrible one just because of turnovers stats. It's not that simple, he was better passer than Howard or Mourning in my opinion, maybe even better than Ewing. Not close to elite though.

[Johnlac1]

The failure of Gilmore to transform the Bulls into a contending team is still one of the league's big mysteries to me. Especially after he led the Kentucky Colonels to an ABA title.
It's not like the Bulls didn't have some good players around him. Reggie Theus, David Greenwood, Ricky Sobers were decent players.

[70sFan]

The failure of Gilmore to transform the Bulls into a contending team is still one of the league's big mysteries to me. Especially after he led the Kentucky Colonels to an ABA title.
It's not like the Bulls didn't have some good players around him. Reggie Theus, David Greenwood, Ricky Sobers were decent players.

They weren't terrible and when they all were healthy they did decent and even advanced to second round (1981) but Artis didn't have the motor to carry the whole team at this point (he was 31 years old), also his supporting cast is not close to something like Lakers, Philly or Celtics, or even Spurs or Rockets. Bulls simply couldn't compete against them. In some way you can fault Artis, but we all know that he wasn't as good as Kareem or Wilt to make anyone contender. Ewing wouldn't make them contenders either.

[70sFan]

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Bumped my old thread for anyone who hasn't seen the latest video. Artis posterized Kareem in this series more than Shaq against Mutombo in 2001. Quite an achievement, given that he was a bit old at this point (especially for someone his size).

[70sFan]

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This is game 5 of the 1983 WCF. I decided to bump this thread, because I have now a lot of new Kareem vs Gilmore games, including two that are not available on YT:

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[youtube][/youtube]

Great play by Artis:

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This one is available, but I can still post it anyway:

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