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These are the 10 Post-Merger Point Guards I have ranked between 101-200 All-time.

What order would you put them in and would any of these guys crack your top 100?

Gilbert Arenas
Sam Cassell
Maurice Cheeks
Baron Davis
Tim Hardaway
Stephon Marbury
Norm Nixon
Mark Price
Rajon Rondo
Deron Williams

Rondo Deron
Price
Hardaway Arenas Nixon
Cheeks
Cassell
Baron
Marbury

(Ranking is based on prime play not careers; older school mentality when it comes to pg's fwiw)

1. Mark Price
- His versatility offensively and basketball IQ makes him the most portable in my opinion. Even if he doesn't show up in the advanced stats as much as some of the other guys listed here

2. Tim Hardaway
- Better defender than Price but was too much of a gunner to be 1st on my list

3. Deron Williams
- Explosive offensively and good floor general. However, I don't think he could thrive in a slower paced environment as much as the first 2

4. Sam Cassell
- Baron & Arenas get looked at more as franchise players but I like Cassell's poise and basketball IQ. Great at shifting gears and had one of the GOAT pullup midrange jumpers

5. Baron Davis
6. Gilbert Arenas
7. Maurice Cheeks
8. Stephon Marbury
9. Rajon Rondo

Interesting that in the first two responses we get Rondo ranked first and last.

SHAQ32,

Why so low on Rondo's prime. I felt like at his peak in the 2010-12 playoffs he was capable of going toe to toe with anyone.

Do you see him as too much of a niche player, dependant of the right situation?

Or do you just value his playmaking and defense less than the mainstream?

If we are going by peaks instead of Career (I try to blend both but put a heavier emphasis on peaks) then mine goes as follows (keep in mind I am more interested in ceiling raising than floor raising so a point guard who gets a ton of buckets but doesn't lead to team success doesn't interest me that much):

1. Mark Price - Too efficient and lead some top offenses of his time. Even though he is too small to be a good defender, he played with toughness and fought hard on defense with good screen navigation.

2. Tim Hardaway - Dude was too damn quick for his own good. Even after his injury he turned himself into a muscle ball point guard with great decision making and tough defense.

3.Sam Cassell - So criminally underrated. Best mid range shooter I've ever seen and had some huge playoff games. Had two 40 point games in 04 and had a huge game for the rockets as a rookie out dueling Penny. His real peak was Milwaukee through Minnesota but he had big games before and after.

4.Baron Davis- Athletic beast and the plus minus stats love him as he was the best point guard for like a 5 year stretch by those metrics. Also was a notorious chucker who was elite at defense only when he came around to giving the effort. When locked in he is as good as anyone but had a bit of a headcase problem.

5. Gilbert Arenas - Best scorer by a wide margin. Not a great playmaker but passable. Terrible defender. 4 year peak and then pretty bad.

6. Deron Williams - Such a short peak (6 years?) but was a great floor general with the second best crossover on this list (Tim). Was a confusing defensive player who was overaggressive.

7. Rondo - Maybe the best passer here but such a terrible shooter and couldn't figure it out once he lost his super team.

8. Mo Cheeks- Great defender and very efficient low volume scorer. I just am not sure he would translate to the new game.

9. Starbury- Has cool affordable shoes.

10. Norm- Won championships but wasn't the best point guard on his team and another player who probably wouldn't shine today.

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Given that op seems mainly concerned about all time ranking here I think I'd have them roughly as
Cheeks(in the 80-90 range which is about where I had him in the last top100)
Hardaway/Price(just outside top 100)
everyone else

Not sure exactly how I’d rank these, but just want to say that I watched almost all the Wizards’ games back then and Gilbert Arenas in his peak years was actually really good. Off the top of my head thinking about these other names, I’m not sure any of them had a peak as good as Arenas.

Career-wise, Mo Cheeks probably comes out on top for me. Efficient low-volume [opportunistic] scorer, solid play-maker, arguably the best defender of the group, excellent impact profile based on pbp that was tracked in the 80s in Philly; and with the best longevity of them all except for perhaps Cassell. Though at this point he might be just outside the top 100, looking in.

After that, probably goes something like:

Tim Hardaway
Sam Cassell
Deron Williams
Mark Price
Baron Davis
Rajon Rondo

Stephon Marbury/Gilbert Arenas

Norm Nixon


I think Norm Nixon is comfortably last here. There's not much special about his career compared to everyone else here (in fact, he rates poorly in most things). He probably shoots too much, given that outside of a couple seasons he's a very low-efficiency chucker.
While he accrued a number of assists, he's also got a one of the worst turnover economies of everyone listed. He's got perhaps the worst longevity here save maybe Mark Price, and he's not a notable defender, either (weakest rebounder among them, fwiw).

JoeMalburg wrote:These are the 10 Post-Merger Point Guards I have ranked between 101-200 All-time.

What order would you put them in and would any of these guys crack your top 100?

Gilbert Arenas
Sam Cassell
Maurice Cheeks
Baron Davis
Tim Hardaway
Stephon Marbury
Norm Nixon
Mark Price
Rajon Rondo
Deron Williams

I'm reading this as these are the only post-merger PG's you have between 101-200.

There are a few other names I'm curious about:

Mike Conley - I have a REALLY hard time seeing him as outside the top 200 [especially with someone like Norm Nixon being in there]. Though I have an equally hard time seeing him INSIDE the top 100. So his absence seems conspicuous.

Kyle Lowry - The one acceptable explanation for his absence would be that he's cracked your top 100. I can't see any way that he isn't at least top 140 at this point (even that feels a bit unkind).

Terry Porter - Basically same statement as above for Lowry.

Mark Jackson - I suppose it depends on how you factor longevity into your criteria; but if meaningful longevity [above replacement level] matters at all.....

Mookie Blaylock - Feels like a very strong case for top 200, maybe even top 150. Perhaps the best defensive PG of anyone so far mentioned [including your 10]. Like Nixon is guilty of shooting too much on poor efficiency [outside a couple of seasons]---at times very poor----but with a better turnover economy. His longevity would fall solidly in the middle of the group you listed.
His impact profile [for the years we have it] is REALLY damn solid, too, up until his final two seasons.

Jason Terry - His case is less than those I've listed above (but better than Norm Nixon, imo; perhaps better than Starbury and Arenas [depending on your longevity views, which hurt Arenas, even though one could probably make a case he has the best peak]). If you consider him a PG.

Andre Miller - Somewhat similar argument as Mark Jackson: just a good player [never great] for a long time (like a decade and a half). 17-year career, almost never injured.

Rod Strickland - Impact likely lags behind his box production, and bit of a lockerroom headache, iirc. But still, longish career, was good for quite a few years.

Gus Williams - You said "post-merger", though I wasn't sure if that meant ALL of their career had to be post-merger (it's every year except ONE for Gus). He'd be somewhere in the vicinity of Cassell and Deron, to me.

1. Mark Price
2. Deron Williams
3. Tim Hardaway
4. Baron Davis
5. Gilbert Arenas
6. Maurice Cheeks
7. Norm Nixon
8. Sam Cassell
9. Stephon Marbury
10. Rajon Rondo

trex_8063 wrote:I'm reading this as these are the only post-merger PG's you have between 101-200.

There are a few other names I'm curious about:

Mike Conley - I have a REALLY hard time seeing him as outside the top 200 [especially with someone like Norm Nixon being in there]. Though I have an equally hard time seeing him INSIDE the top 100. So his absence seems conspicuous.

Kyle Lowry - The one acceptable explanation for his absence would be that he's cracked your top 100. I can't see any way that he isn't at least top 140 at this point (even that feels a bit unkind).

Terry Porter - Basically same statement as above for Lowry.

Mark Jackson - I suppose it depends on how you factor longevity into your criteria; but if meaningful longevity [above replacement level] matters at all.....

Mookie Blaylock - Feels like a very strong case for top 200, maybe even top 150. Perhaps the best defensive PG of anyone so far mentioned [including your 10]. Like Nixon is guilty of shooting too much on poor efficiency [outside a couple of seasons]---at times very poor----but with a better turnover economy. His longevity would fall solidly in the middle of the group you listed.
His impact profile [for the years we have it] is REALLY damn solid, too, up until his final two seasons.

Jason Terry - His case is less than those I've listed above (but better than Norm Nixon, imo; perhaps better than Starbury and Arenas [depending on your longevity views, which hurt Arenas, even though one could probably make a case he has the best peak]). If you consider him a PG.

Andre Miller - Somewhat similar argument as Mark Jackson: just a good player [never great] for a long time (like a decade and a half). 17-year career, almost never injured.

Rod Strickland - Impact likely lags behind his box production, and bit of a lockerroom headache, iirc. But still, longish career, was good for quite a few years.

Gus Williams - You said "post-merger", though I wasn't sure if that meant ALL of their career had to be post-merger (it's every year except ONE for Gus). He'd be somewhere in the vicinity of Cassell and Deron, to me.

Methinks Porter, Lowry and Gus have to be top 100 locks.

Tim Hardaway (TOP100 maybe)
Terry Porter (TOP100 maybe)
Mark Price (TOP100 maybe)
Kyle Lowry (TOP100 maybe)
Kyrie Irving (TOP100 maybe)
Jrue Holiday (TOP100 maybe)

Deron Williams
John Wall
Mike Conley
Baron Davis
Mookie Blaylock
Maurice Cheeks
Fat Lever
Derick Rose
Gilbert Arenas
Sam Cassell
Norm Nixon
Rajon Rondo
Stephon Marbury
Steve Francis

Jaivl wrote:

trex_8063 wrote:I'm reading this as these are the only post-merger PG's you have between 101-200.

There are a few other names I'm curious about:

Mike Conley - I have a REALLY hard time seeing him as outside the top 200 [especially with someone like Norm Nixon being in there]. Though I have an equally hard time seeing him INSIDE the top 100. So his absence seems conspicuous.

Kyle Lowry - The one acceptable explanation for his absence would be that he's cracked your top 100. I can't see any way that he isn't at least top 140 at this point (even that feels a bit unkind).

Terry Porter - Basically same statement as above for Lowry.

Mark Jackson - I suppose it depends on how you factor longevity into your criteria; but if meaningful longevity [above replacement level] matters at all.....

Mookie Blaylock - Feels like a very strong case for top 200, maybe even top 150. Perhaps the best defensive PG of anyone so far mentioned [including your 10]. Like Nixon is guilty of shooting too much on poor efficiency [outside a couple of seasons]---at times very poor----but with a better turnover economy. His longevity would fall solidly in the middle of the group you listed.
His impact profile [for the years we have it] is REALLY damn solid, too, up until his final two seasons.

Jason Terry - His case is less than those I've listed above (but better than Norm Nixon, imo; perhaps better than Starbury and Arenas [depending on your longevity views, which hurt Arenas, even though one could probably make a case he has the best peak]). If you consider him a PG.

Andre Miller - Somewhat similar argument as Mark Jackson: just a good player [never great] for a long time (like a decade and a half). 17-year career, almost never injured.

Rod Strickland - Impact likely lags behind his box production, and bit of a lockerroom headache, iirc. But still, longish career, was good for quite a few years.

Gus Williams - You said "post-merger", though I wasn't sure if that meant ALL of their career had to be post-merger (it's every year except ONE for Gus). He'd be somewhere in the vicinity of Cassell and Deron, to me.

Methinks Porter, Lowry and Gus have to be top 100 locks.

Jrue Holiday as TOP100 player?

SpreeS wrote:Tim Hardaway (TOP100 maybe)
Terry Porter (TOP100 maybe)
Mark Price (TOP100 maybe)
Kyle Lowry (TOP100 maybe)
Kyrie Irving (TOP100 maybe)
Jrue Holiday (TOP100 maybe)

Deron Williams
John Wall
Mike Conley
Baron Davis
Mookie Blaylock
Maurice Cheeks
Fat Lever
Derick Rose
Gilbert Arenas
Sam Cassell
Norm Nixon
Rajon Rondo
Stephon Marbury
Steve Francis

I thought of Stevie Franchise, Fat Lever, and Rose, but didn't want to clutter things too much (figured they could be reasonably held outside the top 200 at this point, too).

Good call on Jrue Holiday; he's had a really nice career, and probably is a hard sell outside the top 200 by now (though inside the top 100 also feels maybe a slightly tough sell, too; idk, I'll have to take a closer look).
Kyrie, I figured was not listed because he had him in the top 100 (I disagree, fwiw, not enough to argue the point).


Another one that just occurred to me who probably deserves a mention (as much as some of the others): Derek Harper.

Modern Day PG's

Baron Davis - if you look at some of his +/- numbers, you'd be really impressed. He's amazing, I think the 07 Mavs fluke he pulled off is actually a legit testament of his talents.

Deron Williams - remember some of his playoffs? Coached by Sloan? Turkey days statue? This guy was close to challenging Chris Paul, it didn't pan out.

Mike Conley - Good floor general, good numbers.

Kyle Lowry - underrated PG, hero in Toronto.

Mark Price - amazing player, missed opportunity to be Steve Nash.

Sam Cassell/Alien - great assist maker and had good PG instincts. A HoF type that missed out on bad teams.

Tim Hardaway - good assist man, great player.

Mike Bibby - Legitimately one of the top PG's, I think he deserves more analysis. This guy can really ball.

Steph Marbury
Jameer Nelson

Some of these guys can really ball at the legends level. Check out some of Mabury/starbury days to take a look.

International well rounded guards

Goran Dragic
Tony Parker (or is he top 100 now?)

Fundamentals21 wrote:Baron Davis - if you look at some of his +/- numbers, you'd be really impressed. He's amazing, I think the 07 Mavs fluke he pulled off is actually a legit testament of his talents.

Deron Williams - remember some of his playoffs? Coached by Sloan? Turkey days statue? This guy was close to challenging Chris Paul, it didn't pan out.

Mike Conley - Good floor general, good numbers.

Kyle Lowry - underrated PG, hero in Toronto.

Mark Price - amazing player, missed opportunity to be Steve Nash.

Sam Cassell/Alien - great assist maker and had good PG instincts. A HoF type that missed out on bad teams.

Tim Hardaway - good assist man, great player.

Mike Bibby - Legitimately one of the top PG's, I think he deserves more analysis. This guy can really ball.

Steph Marbury
Jameer Nelson

Some of these guys can really ball at the legends level. Check out some of Mabury/starbury days to take a look.

International well rounded guards

Goran Dragic
Tony Parker (or is he top 100 now?)

Mark was a relatively weak shooter while Nash was probably the best shooter until Curry came along. Jackson never would have been Nash under any circumstance. There is more to Nash than just high APG.