'17-18 POY Voting Thread

[Missing Rings]

Player of the Year
1. LeBron James
2. James Harden
3. Anthony Davis
4. Draymond Green
5. Chris Paul

Offensive Player of the Year
1. LeBron James
2. James Harden
3. Chris Paul

Defensive Player of the Year
1. Draymond Green
2. Rudy Gobert
3. Joel Embiid

Rookie of the Year
1. Ben Simmons
2. Donovan Mitchell
3. Jason Tatum

Most Improved Player
1. Victor Oladipo
2. Andre Drummond
3. Domantas Sabonis

6th Man of Year
1. Lou Williams
2. Fred VanVleet
3. Marcus Smart

Coach of the Year
1. Dwyane Casey
2. Brad Stevens
3. Mike D'Antoni

Executive of the Year
1. Danny Ainge
2. Daryl Morey
3. Dennis Lindsey

Player of the Year:

1. LeBron James

The Cleveland Cavaliers were most people's pick to make it out of the east in the Pre-Season. Throughout the tumultuous regular season the team went through multiple phases including personal changes and adversity never before seen for a "Championship Contender". There was one constant through it all: LeBron James; still leading the chaotic Cleveland Cavaliers to a 50-32 record and a first round series with home-court advantage. His regular season deemed by many posters here as "lackluster" produced the 5th best offense in the NBA while posting the simple box-score line of 27.5/8.6/9.1 with a 62.1 TS%, 11 Offensive Win Shares, and playing in all 82 games. While a clear top 5 player during the regular season, LeBron turned up in the post-season producing of the greatest post-season runs in NBA History by any single player. Underdogs in every series (by SRS), LeBron James increased his usage (scoring and playmaking output) at the cost of no efficiency. He dismantled the #1 seed in his conference with Jordan-esque late game Heroics and went toe to toe with one of the best minds in the league in Brad Stevens. His blazing mid-range shot in the playoffs resulted in an unstoppable force through the Eastern Conference and Game 1 of the NBA Finals.

2. James Harden & 5. Chris Paul

After recruiting Chris Paul, the verdict was out on how James Harden would integrate with such a ball dominant talent. There have been few times, if any, in NBA History where two of the top 4 or 5 play-makers in the world would play on the same team. For many skeptics the biggest concern was "one basketball per team", but for a few basketball savvy minds the basketball IQ contained between Harden and Paul would result in a beautiful game...and it certainly delivered. James Harden was the catalyst of the best basketball team in the Regular Season while Chris Paul raised the ceiling of the team from Golden State fodder to best team of all-time. James Harden should be the near-unanimous Regular Season MVP and the way he played in the post-season supports his claim as the 2nd best player in the game. As for Chris Paul, the #5 ranking will be shocking for many. Let me preface this by saying I think he is a far more impactful player than Victor Oladipo, Kevin Durant and Giannis Antetokounmpo. The way Paul was able to integrate himself into a 50+ win team was remarkable, and handled it much better than Anthony Davis did with Demarcus Cousins. Paul was comparable to Curry both in the regular season and post-season, but given Curry missed more games in the post-season AND regular season moves the needle slightly in Paul's favor for me.

3. Anthony Davis

As mentioned above, I believe Davis didn't do as well of a job with new scenery (or in this case DMC) in comparison to Chris Paul. However, Davis didn't miss time and the way he played to complete the season and start the post-season was remarkable. The Pelicans went 28-13 to finish the second half of the season with Davis posting 30.1/11.7 with 1.9 steals and 3.0 blocks on 59.3 TS%. Combined with his defense he was the best or second best player through the duration of the second half of the regular season, and his playoff performance didn't disappoint given his opponents.

4. Draymond Green

Ahh, the player who wouldn't be "top 20" without Curry. The guy who is only good because he plays with good teammates, yada yada yada. He was the best defensive player in the post-season leading the post-season in Steals, 2nd in Blocks, 1st in Defensive Rebounds, Charges Drawn, Deflections, Contested 2 pointers, Contested 3 pointers, and box-outs. We are looking a modern day Dennis Rodman who is also the vocal leader of his team on and off the court. Combined with his ability to run point-forward for stretches of the game makes him one of the most versatile players in the Game.


I am not going to go into detail about my other selections unless asked as I think many are straight forward. For example, Domantas Sabonis went from one of the worst rotation players in the NBA to being a key contributor on a team that took Cleveland to 7 games. Drummond went from being a big negative to an above average starter in the NBA. Daryl Morey was able to not only get Chris Paul but also PJ Tucker and adding veteran Joe Johnson during the season. Dennis Lyndsey landed a future Star in Donovan Mitchell, fleeced Minnesota of Ricky Rubio, and then added Jae Crowder who helped a measurable amount during the post-season run.

Fun NBA season, lot's of adversity faced and story lines, and a league wide talent depth never seen before.

[pelifan]

I would have gone in to more detail but RealGM decided to suck and crash a lot deleting a lot.

Player of the Year
1. LeBron James
2. James Harden
3. Anthony Davis
4. Giannis Antetokuonmpo
5. Kevin Durant

HM: Lillard, Gobert, Oladipo, Curry

the top 4 are a lock for me. Most consistent players on their teams and were relied on every night to produce. Lebron and Harden is a close debate but ultimately Lebron wins out because he's the better player. Durant doesnt deserve to be mentioned with these players but it turns out with all of the injuries a better shooting 2009 Melo is good enough for top 5 this year.

Offensive Player of the Year
1. LeBron James
2. James Harden
3. Steph Curry

HM: Chris Paul

Curry would be 1 if not for missed games

Defensive Player of the Year
1. Rudy Gorbert
2. Joel Embiid
3. Anthony Davis

HM: Andre Roberson, Draymond Green

Roberson missed too many games but these were the 3 best rim protectors this year. Gobert was the best defensive player since peak Dwight, but give Embiid and Davis less offensive responsibilities and they play like DPOY candidates.

Rookie of the Year
1. Ben Simmons
2. Donovan Mitchell
3. Jason Tatum

HM: no one, this is obvious, even the order

Most Improved Player
1. Victor Oladipo
2. Andre Drummond
3. Clint Capella

HM: too many to list, good year for improving players

I dont like giving any mentions to any player year 3 or less.

6th Man of Year
1. Lou Williams
2. Eric Gordon
3. Kelly Olynyk

HM: Marcus Smart, Fred VanVleet

Lou WIlliams was the best player on an above .500 Clippers team this year. Star level offense makes up for terrible D. I dont think the Heat make the playoffs without KO, so thats why he makes the list.

Coach of the Year
1. Quin Snyder
2. Brad Stevens
3. Gregg Popovich

Snyder made the Jazz 5th in SRS after a lot of injuries, new faces and not as much talent as Stevens had to work with. Pop made the playoffs through a distraction filled season with a 40yo Ginobili as the 2nd best player nuff said.

HM: Dwayne Casey, Mike Dantoni

Executive of the Year
1. Daryl Morey
2. Danny Ainge
3. Rob Pelinka

Really surprised Pelinka isnt getting more love. Ball was a miss but turning Mozgov and Russel in to Kuz and capspace is pure wizardry, unloading Clarkson for a first is putting on trade override. Hart is a nice pickup and the Lakers look to be in a position I never thought they would be.

[Outside]

Player of the Year
LeBron James
James Harden
Anthony Davis
Giannis Antetokuonmpo
Steph Curry

HM: Victor Oladipo

Harden had the RS, but as has been the case, his game doesn't translate as well to the PS. I also docked him, especially for the GS series, for foul hunting to an excess that hurt his team instead of just trying to make shots. He didn't step up when they had a chance to dethrone the champs.

LeBron's regular season was an exhibition of brute force production. It's not my style of offense, but I don't see anyone else who can come close to maintaining that level of production night after night. His durability is otherworldly. I didn't like how he played in the Indiana series (he got his but the others floundered), but he was otherwise great in the postseason, finding a nice balance after the Indiana series of being dominating individually while also helping his teammates to produce. So many positives, but then, here's the negatives -- that 4-6 week period before the trading deadline where he seemed to undermine the team; the terrible, horrible, no good, very bad defense in the RS that got only marginally better in the PS; and the drama and conflict around the team, which he was at the center of.

Davis and Giannis are hard to separate for me, and I gave Davis the edge based on team performance, particularly in the PS. It's amazing that these guys are this good at such a young age (Giannis 23, Davis 24) and both have clear room for improvement.

The last spot was tough. I went with Curry, despite the missed games, as the most impactful member of the champs. They are an amazing fit of great talent, but Curry is the foundation for their offensive excellence and the tone-setter for their culture.

Offensive Player of the Year
LeBron James
James Harden
Steph Curry

The top two spots mirrored the POY race. Neither was good defensively, so the gap between them and Davis/Giannis widened here, while Curry moved up for me.

Defensive Player of the Year
Rudy Gobert
Draymond Green
Anthony Davis

Utah's resurgence after a poor start was based on defense, and Gobert was the anchor for that. He can be game planned in the PS, but being so impactful in the RS is incredibly valuable.

Draymond was ordinary (for him) in the RS, but he was easily the most valuable defensive player in the PS. The nuance and versatility of his defensive game is amazing to watch.

I was conflicted on the third spot and settled on Davis, but it wouldn't take much for me to give this spot to someone else. Boston's defense is based on team-wide defensive effort and scheme rather than leveraging any individual defensive player. Houston and San Antonio are similar in that regard. Oladipo deserves credit here and is likely my 4th spot. I'm not as high on Embiid as a defender as many.

Rookie of the Year
Ben Simmons
Donovan Mitchell
Jayson Tatum

Simmons' RS was just too good to be overtaken by Mitchell's PS. Tatum was really good, but he didn't have to carry his team in the way Simmons and Mitchell did.

Most Improved Player
Victor Oladipo
Clint Capela
Steven Adams

I'm not completely sold on Adams in the third spot, but I give him the edge over other guys who are getting votes. I didn't watch much of Detroit, but Drummond didn't do it for me, partly because of how poorly Detroit did in the weak East, partly because I have difficulty considering it "improvement" to return to being a useful player after a couple of seasons sliding into near-irrelevancy, but also he didn't stand out to me when I watched him play. Detroit is such a weird team.

6th Man of the Year
Lou Williams
Eric Gordon
Fred VanVleet

Williams is a defensive liability, but he almost led the train-wreck Clippers into the playoffs. Gordon wasn't as good offensively as last season but bought in nicely to Houston's improved defensive mindset. VanVleet disappeared in the PS, but he had a nice RS. I'm can't get behind Smart here due to missed games and the fact he's an abysmal shooter.

Coach of the Year
Brad Stevens
Mike D'Antoni
Quin Snyder

Boston lost Hayward in game 1, then lost Kyrie, and still almost made it to the finals. Stevens was amazing.

I'm not a fan of Houston's style of offense, but there's no denying how effective it is, and coaching is a big reason behind the surprisingly good meshing of Harden and Paul. Houston's gameplan against Golden State was outstanding.

Utah had no business being as good as they were. Boston at least has the players to make an effective defense; Utah has Gobert, Rubio... and that's it.

I could easily shuffle these three into any order.

As for others, Casey did a great job in the RS, but the PS was painful. Pop and Nate McMillan did nice jobs, as did Kerr and Spoelstra. Lots of good coaches.

Executive of the Year
Danny Ainge
Daryl Morey
Kevin Pritchard

I also considered Lindsey (Jazz) and Thibodeau (Minnesota). Thibs scored a coup getting Jimmy Butler that would've led them to HCA in the first round if Butler hadn't gotten hurt. The case for Thibs the GM was also hurt by the performance of Thibs the coach.

[Doctor MJ]

POY
1. James Harden
2. LeBron James
3. Kevin Durant
4. Steph Curry
5. Anthony Davis

Honorable Mention: CP, Dray, Giannis, Gobert, Oladipo

I've really struggled this year actually ranking these seasons. All the candidates have really clear cut flaws. This doesn't mean the competition is truly weak, because we're actually loaded with star talent in this league, but while I'm siding with Harden at the top spot, there's no one I'd feel would be "robbed" by being lower than 1, Harden included.

I've posted my dilemma between Harden and LeBron elsewhere, but here it is in a nutshell:

Harden had a big lead before the playoffs. Harden led his team to a near upset of the Warriors, and any serious criticism coming his way from that is silly. That was an amazing accomplishment to even get that close, as LeBron can tell you. Harden could easily have a Finals MVP right now, and if he did, hard to imagine he wouldn't be my #1.

I have never questioned whether LeBron was the better player and I'm record saying during the 1st game of the finals it was hard to imagine siding against him. But I was clear before the finals that LeBron had to finish strong against the Western champ to actually surpass Harden, and while that Game 1 performance showed that that was well within LeBron's grasp, that's not how things ended up. LeBron lost his cool, injured himself, and then the Cavs ceased to be a threat. Stark contrast with all of the Warriors' other performances who kept fighting and got at least a game of the Warriors.

I get if these details don't matter to others. I don't think this LeBron team really could beat the Warriors and thus I could understand not caring how close they come. But I do care.

The Warriors' stars are so hard to rate. I'd say giving Steph the 4 spot is the part that deviates the most from others. The fact that he's so established as what he is and the Warriors won the title makes it hard for me to rank many guys ahead of him. No he wasn't at his best in the playoffs, which is why he isn't higher, but this notion that he isn't capable of playing at his peak level just doesn't seem defensible to me. During the regular season this year, he was amazing. And of course, when the Warriors had their back against the wall against the Rockets, it was Curry-ball that put them over the top.

Incidentally, Curry & Paul were in a similar boat in my mind. Had Houston won the title Paul probably makes my top 5 and Curry may not have. But Houston lost, and Paul was again injured when they needed him. Hard to put him over a guy like Anthony Davis who was such a beast all year and led his team to new heights.

I feel fine with Giannis missing out on my Top 5, but his rising star remains clear. Big expectations for next year.

2013 Draftmates of his, Gobert, and Oladipo, also cracked my HM this year. Not bad for a draft where Bennett went 1st.

OPOY:
1. LeBron James
2. James Harden
3. Steph Curry

Really Doc? You're going to give Harden the overall nod but give LeBron the offensive one? You saying Harden's defense carries the day?

Well first, the game isn't just offense + defense. It's also intangibles and I knock LeBron's intangible impact this year. But there's also the matter that the Cavs follow LeBron's lead and and that was at the root of the Cavs' slack defense. Say what you want to about Harden, but the Houston's defense was absolutely solid in the playoffs and Harden was part of that.

I'm also going to flip Durant & Curry. Durant overall carried a heavier load over the course of the season, but Curry's the gleaming jewel of the team's offense and the threat all opponents are most concerned with.

DPOY:
1. Rudy Gobert
2. Al Horford
3. Joel Embiid

The elephant in the room here is the lack of Draymond. I threw him into my POY HM, and I still believe in his ability to play best-in-world defense, but it's just really hard for me to advocate for him based on his tenacious defense when he just didn't bring it the whole year.

I think Gobert is a deserving winner and Embiid feels like a future winner. Horford would be worthy as well but this feels like his last time being talked about as such.

ROY:
1. Ben Simmons
2. Jason Tatum
3. Donovan Mitchell

What an amazing year for rookies. All 3 guys are more than worthy. Simmons is the closest thing we've seen since LeBron in many ways and had a rookie right up there with anyone since Duncan. I can't pick against him.

Between Tatum and Mitchell I'm slightly more impressed with Tatum fitting in so seamlessly with other talent. People might think that makes it easier for Tatum, and in some ways it does, but I think the fitting in factor is no small thing. I don't think Boston has any regrets here.

MIP:
1. Victor Oladipo
2. Clint Capela
3. Steven Adams

Pretty obvious choices it seems.

6MOY
1. Eric Gordon
2. Lou Williams
3. Marcus Smart

As great and as worthy as Lou was this year, watching the Rockets nearly beat the Warriors treating Gordon like their 3rd legit playmaker is a big deal. I think it's important to remember that Gordon was a guy seen to have star talent who mysteriously didn't seem to handle the role well. The Rockets are incredibly lucky to have him for the role they need him.

COY
1. Brad Stevens
2. Mike D'Antoni
3. Quinn Snyder

D'Antoni had a year that cemented him not simply as a HOFer but an icon. He'll always be seen as one of the great visionaries.
He's worthy of the award, but Brad Stevens just seems like he's the best coach in the game right now by a good margin.

EOY
1. Danny Ainge
2. Daryl Morey
3. Kevin Pritchard

This is yet another year where Morey is more than deserving. Did you realize the NBA GM's have never given him EOY? Ridiculous, should have won it twice already, and makes me want to vote for him every year.

But what Ainge did this year is the stuff that has the rest of the league afraid to deal with someone. How long will it take before teams just avoid talking with him?

[trex_8063]

Player of the Year
1. Lebron James
2. James Harden
3. Anthony Davis
4. Giannis Antetokounmpo
5. Kevin Durant

I've gone back and forth between Lebron and The Beard for the #1 spot. I do think Harden was the best player of the rs and will be deserving of the MVP he's likely to get. Lebron asserted himself as the stand-alone best player in the world in the playoffs, though (while Harden was.....inconsisent: at times brilliant, at times under-performing). Is that enough to give Lebron this distinction? idk, maybe not. I've been pretty critical of Lebron this year, mostly because of rumblings about this being arguably his peak season, which I flat disagree with (ardently). His defense during the rs was the worst I've seen from him since I can't remember, and JB actually made a decent point-----how often do we say that? (sorry, cheap shot)----about his leadership thru much of season leaving a lot to be desired. And where he can fill up a stat-sheet, it does need to be noted that he's often on the court with a line-up [however weak] that does potentiate his individual production (by consistently having 3-4 legit 3pt threats on the court with him at all times).
Long and the short of it is that I don't have any problem with people NOT putting him first this year (even #3 feels potentially fair, given how remarkable Davis was).

Davis was a monster all year, and kept the ship righted even after DMC went down. Terrific playoff run; I think he's easily a top 3 candidate this year, so I was pretty set on these three for the first spots. After that is where it got tricky.

Ultimately, I feel like Giannis had the best case. I could almost see putting him higher, but I feel like Milwaukee maybe marginally under-performed in the rs. I mean he had a healthy Khris Middleton and Eric Bledsoe, though admittedly not a lot after that (though a few decent role players). If Giannis is as good as his numbers, one would think that would be enough to hit 45 wins in an anemic Eastern Conference. A lot of people criticize Jason Kidd as head coach, and I admit I'd not watched/followed the Bucks enough to know if the criticism is warranted; they did have a better record after he was fired, though, and gave a good Celtic team a run for their money; so maybe Kidd was holding them back. Giannis had a nice series there against a tough Boston defense, too.

#5 was sort of a pick. Durant was a pinch disappointing in the rs (and did miss 14 games), though it should be noted that perhaps I'm too critical when a guy going for 26/7/5 on 64% TS is labelled "disappointing". Performed pretty well in the playoffs (and missed no games), particularly in the finals (against an admittedly weak defense).
Top HM's are probably Curry and CP3. Honestly, it's just the injuries. If healthy all year, I think Curry could have had a nice case for #1. But when you miss 31 rs games and a half-dozen playoff ones, too.......that just sort of takes you out of the running imo, unless you're utterly transcendent relative to your peers in the games you did play. I think Paul was arguably a top 5 player in the league in the games he actually played in too; but he missed 24 rs games and 2 playoff ones. It's too much missed time while in competition against this field.


Offensive Player of the Year
1. James Harden
2. Lebron James
3. Stephen Curry

I feel like I need to throw Harden this bone after denying him the PoY. And it perhaps makes sense to do it this way: while Lebron was poor defensively, he wasn't really any poorer than Harden (and better than Harden defensively in the playoffs). Curry would likely be higher, again, if not for the missed games.


Defensive Player of the Year
1. Rudy Gobert
2. Joel Embiid
3. Robert Covington

Despite the missed games, Gobert is just such a beast defensively that there's no one else who's a clear choice above him (and to some degree I feel this is maybe a "make-up call", as he was a coin-flip with Dray last year [imo]). He disrupts SO many plays, fantastic rim protector and rebounder, and he so energizes that squad (particularly on the defensive end). He doesn't quite have the crew who can feed him as well on the pnr as he did last year (and his scoring numbers reflect that), but he's not the kind to pout if he doesn't get all the touches he'd like; he's still focused and energized whenever on the court.
Embiid similarly has a big defensive imprint, and it just feels like it's probably between them. Embiid's teammate is another worthy of some recognition, though.


Coach of the Year
1. Brad Stevens
2. Mike D'Antoni
3. Gregg Popovich

The whole story around the Celtics was fascinating. From game one of the rs on into the playoffs they faced SO MUCH injury adversity......and yet look what they did [with several young/inexperienced players, too]. Have we ever seen a team face so much adversity and still do so well? Off the top of my head, I can't think of anything, and his inspiring of this group (and telling the youngsters "don't let your youth be an excuse").....hands down my CoY.
I wasn't sure how CP3/Harden would co-exist, but D'Antoni made it work with a near-historic great offense (in the rs, at least) AND a solid defense (not really his forte).
Pop did pretty good considering his star missed basically the whole year (some missed games from more secondary role players, too); still managed a 7-seed in a ridiculously competitive WC.

I'm gonna stop there; don't have it in me to write up the rest.

[laika]

Player of the Year-
1.Curry
2.Harden
3.Lebron
4.Oladipo
5.Davis

Offensive Player of the Year
1.Curry
2.Lebron
3.Harden

Defensive Player of the Year
1.Gobert- Gobert easily the most dominant defender, making up for lack of minutes.
2.Covington
3.Embiid

Rookie of the Year
1.Simmons- I give slight edge to Mitchell in 2nd half of year, but overall Simmons.
2.Mitchell
3.Tatum

Most Improved Player
1.Oladipo- Most improved player ever?
2.Karl Anthony Towns
3.Tyreke Evans- Monster improvement or fluke year? Should get recognition of some sort.

6th Man of the Year
1. Van Vleet- Amazing year off the bench.
2. Eric Gordon
3. Lou Williams

Coach of the Year
1.Stevens- Don't really know who is the best coach. Too hard to equalize out talent differences.
2.Snyder- Nearly everyone seems to play better for him.
3.Popovich- Roster without Kawhi not too impressive.

Executive of the Year
1.Ainge- Is he secretly a Sith lord?
2.Morey- Paul alone might have him make the list.
3.Pritchard- Blind luck or trade of the century? Will give him credit.

Discussion-

Regular Season-
--------------------On---Off---On/Off---RAPM-----RPM(reg and play)----Net Points Total
1.Curry---------14.3--+0.1----14.2--------2----------3------------------------------633
2.Harden--------9.9--+5.8-----4.1-------17----------2------------------------------600
3.Lebron--------1.6---1.4------3.0-------36--------12--------------------------------80
4.Oladipo-------6.3---7.6----13.9---------9----------6-------------------------------391
5.Davis-----------5.2---7.1----12.3--------29---------7-------------------------------304
6.Durant--------7.2--+4.2------3.0-------78--------24------------------------------556
7.Giannis--------2.6---6.9------9.5-------21--------17------------------------------138


Playoffs-
--------------------On-----Off-------On/Off
1.Curry---------12.7---+6.6---------6.1
2.Harden--------5.7---10.6--------16.3
3.Lebron--neg 1.1-----5.3---------4.2
4.Oladipo------10.3---10.2--------20.5
5.Davis------------1.2---10.4-------11.6
6.Durant--------12.3----0.7-------11.6
7.Giannis---neg 1.9---+5.5--neg 7.4

Houston/New Orleans----On-------Off-----On/Off
Curry---------------------------12.2-------1.6--------10.6
Green----------------------------9.9------4.3----------5.6
Durant---------------------------7.2-----15.2----neg 8.0
Thompson-----------------------6.5-----17.1--neg 10.6

If Curry hadn't missed time he should have won POY in a landslide. But even with the time missed you can make a strong case for Curry having the most impact of any player in the league. Curry was by far the most valuable Warrior in the regular season. Curry was easily the most valuable Warrior in their two toughest playoff series. Everyone knows that Houston was the real championship series. Even New Orleans played much better than Cleveland. For a supposed super team the Warriors often looked extremely mediocre without Curry. Net points heavily favors players that play more minutes. Yet even with his time missed Curry had the most net points.

Lebron's impact dropped off a cliff this year. Lebron played poor defense all year and it showed up in the stats. He struggled more to get by the Eastern Conference than he had in a long time. Cleveland got blown out by the only good team they faced in the playoffs. Lebron is more efficient than Westbrook, but his playing style was the same in the playoffs- play in a way that racks up stats but is also very selfish. Everyone else on the Cavs was reduced to standing around watching the Lebron show. If that produces wins, then great. But if it results in nothing close to a title then you have to ask the question if Lebron's extremely high usage rate actually reduces the top level of play that the Cavs were capable of.

Ultimately winning is what matters most. Curry was so monumentally far ahead of Lebron in this respect that any difference in cumulative box score stats is outweighed by the best measure of greatness. The decider between Harden and Curry was that Curry was significantly more valuable than Harden in the de facto championship series. Harden is the middle ground between Curry and Lebron. Harden had less of an impact than Curry, but had higher cumulative box score stats. Harden won much more than Lebron though.

[Doctor MJ]

I have tallied up the votes. You can find the details here:

RealGM All-Season Awards '17-18

Top finishers:

Player of the Year
1. LeBron James - his 8th win in the past 10 years
2. James Harden
3. Anthony Davis
4. Kevin Durant
5. Giannis Antetokounmpo

Offensive Player of the Year
1. LeBron James
2. James Harden
3. Steph Curry

Defensive Player of the Year
1. Rudy Gobert
2. Draymond Green
3. Joel Embiid

Rookie of the Year
1. Ben Simmons
2. Donovan Mitchell
3. Jason Tatum

Most Improved Player
1. Victor Oladipo - Unanimous!
2. Clint Capela
3. Andre Drummond

6th Man of the Year
1. Lou Williams
2. Eric Gordon
3. Marcus Smart

Coach of the Year
1. Brad Stevens
2. Quinn Snyder
3. Mike D'Antoni

Executive of the Year
1. Danny Ainge
2. Daryl Morey
3. Kevin Pritchard

[cpower]

it's quite interesting that a lot of you have Curry in top 3 offensively but Durant ended up higher in POY ranking. That does not sound like consistent at all consider KD has not been defending for the entire year.

[eminence]

Bleh at whomever left Simmons off their ROY ballot.

[dhsilv2]

Bleh at whomever left Simmons off their ROY ballot.

We got a certain poster who insists that he shouldn't be a rookie because he sat on the bench last year. Oh well, that's the fun of having different opinions shared.

[therealbig3]

it's quite interesting that a lot of you have Curry in top 3 offensively but Durant ended up higher in POY ranking. That does not sound like consistent at all consider KD has not been defending for the entire year.

Many posters, myself included, mentioned that they're way more lenient about missed games when it comes to OPOY compared to POY. I look at OPOY less about total value for the season, and more about...ok, this year, what was your typical level of play offensively? Curry still gets dinged for the missed time compared to LeBron and Harden, but not to the same extent that he gets dinged in the POY vote.

[euroleague]

Disappointed in Harden not getting any love in these things. Last year, if Cavs had the first seed, they may have had a chance against the Warriors. They play much better at home, and the Warriors aren't great on the road.

Harden got that first seed, despite injuries to CP3, and was balling hard when it counted. Those 27 missed 3s in game 7 really killed the Rockets, never seen such terrible shooting, but the whole GSW team was focusing on Harden. People act like "LBJ has no help... amazing..." but without CP3, I don't think the Rockets offense is better.
Rockets:
Eric Gordon, PJ Tucker, Ariza, and Capela - when this team is out, they dominate. but the bench? ryan Anderson was injured, cp3 was injured, and they had Gerald Wallace as their next best guy. so they faded hard in the 4th.
Cavs:
Kevin Love, Tristian Thompson, George Hill, Jeff Green - not quite as good as the rockets starting line-up in terms of star-power, but deeper. and the bench is much deeper - JR Smith, Rodney Hood, Cedi Osman, Larry Nance Jr, Jordan Clarkson, etc. So they don't get utterly exhausted as the game goes on, and depth is huge when teams go deep in the playoffs.

I think people don't appreciate that Harden had to do everything except when Eric Gordon helped, but LBJ had quality teammates like Love, Hill, Hood, Jeff Green who can also take the lead offensively for the bench unit. When CP3 went down the Rockets were screwed because Harden got too much playmaking responsibility.

In all, Harden's far superior regular season to win home-court, and his dominance in the playoffs, should win him POY for 2018 imo. If LBJ had a good RS this would be very close, but because his team barely got 4th in the East, I just can't see it. Cavs might have made the second round over Utah assuming their record stays the same in the West, but the Warriors would sweep them in the 2nd round. The Cavs SRS of .59 would've put them in 10th place in the West instead of the 5th rank in the East.

[Colbinii]

Disappointed in Harden not getting any love in these things. Last year, if Cavs had the first seed, they may have had a chance against the Warriors. They play much better at home, and the Warriors aren't great on the road.

Harden got that first seed, despite injuries to CP3, and was balling hard when it counted. Those 27 missed 3s in game 7 really killed the Rockets, never seen such terrible shooting, but the whole GSW team was focusing on Harden. People act like "LBJ has no help... amazing..." but without CP3, I don't think the Rockets offense is better.
Rockets:
Eric Gordon, PJ Tucker, Ariza, and Capela - when this team is out, they dominate. but the bench? ryan Anderson was injured, cp3 was injured, and they had Gerald Wallace as their next best guy. so they faded hard in the 4th.
Cavs:
Kevin Love, Tristian Thompson, George Hill, Jeff Green - not quite as good as the rockets starting line-up in terms of star-power, but deeper. and the bench is much deeper - JR Smith, Rodney Hood, Cedi Osman, Larry Nance Jr, Jordan Clarkson, etc. So they don't get utterly exhausted as the game goes on, and depth is huge when teams go deep in the playoffs.

I think people don't appreciate that Harden had to do everything except when Eric Gordon helped, but LBJ had quality teammates like Love, Hill, Hood, Jeff Green who can also take the lead offensively for the bench unit. When CP3 went down the Rockets were screwed because Harden got too much playmaking responsibility.

In all, Harden's far superior regular season to win home-court, and his dominance in the playoffs, should win him POY for 2018 imo. If LBJ had a good RS this would be very close, but because his team barely got 4th in the East, I just can't see it. Cavs might have made the second round over Utah assuming their record stays the same in the West, but the Warriors would sweep them in the 2nd round. The Cavs SRS of .59 would've put them in 10th place in the West instead of the 5th rank in the East.

Couple things...You seem to be completely ignoring Chris Paul in this comparison by stating "outside of Chris Paul..." but in reality, ignoring Chris Paul is disingenuous to the comparison. He was a vital part of the team and the reason they were able to grab the #1 seed.

Gerald Wallace wasn't on the team and Cedi Osman played 62 minutes in the post-season

Luc Mbah a Moute, Gerald Green, and Joe Johnson are very comparable to Jeff Green, JR Smith, Rodney Hood, and whoever else the best players were on the Cavaliers bench. These Rocket players have generally more experience and are better defenders.

PJ Tucker, Trevor Ariza, Eric Gordon, and Chris Paul are so much better than Kevin Love, JR Smith, Kyle Korver, and George Hill the discussion shouldn't even be taking place. Their are no metrics in NBA that have these 4 as even close to the Cavaliers starting 4.

Although the Cavaliers had depth, those players you mentioned weren't doing anything. If you go by BPM, JR Smith, Jeff Green, Kevin Love, Rodney Hood, and Jose Calderon all played at replacement level or WORSE during the post-season.

To top it all off, doesn't the .59 SRS the Cavaliers had just show how bad the team was? You talk about how they have an "extremely deep" team and they have good, quality players, yet the team was barely above average. Ironically, you attacking LeBron James while spinning your wheels isn't a surprise.

[eminence]

Luc Mbah a Moute, Gerald Green, and Joe Johnson are very comparable to Jeff Green, JR Smith, Rodney Hood, and whoever else the best players were on the Cavaliers bench. These Rocket players have generally more experience and are better defenders.

Nance is the guy to add to the Cavs bench.

[HeartBreakKid]

Disappointed in Harden not getting any love in these things. Last year, if Cavs had the first seed, they may have had a chance against the Warriors. They play much better at home, and the Warriors aren't great on the road.

Harden got that first seed, despite injuries to CP3, and was balling hard when it counted. Those 27 missed 3s in game 7 really killed the Rockets, never seen such terrible shooting, but the whole GSW team was focusing on Harden. People act like "LBJ has no help... amazing..." but without CP3, I don't think the Rockets offense is better.
Rockets:
Eric Gordon, PJ Tucker, Ariza, and Capela - when this team is out, they dominate. but the bench? ryan Anderson was injured, cp3 was injured, and they had Gerald Wallace as their next best guy. so they faded hard in the 4th.
Cavs:
Kevin Love, Tristian Thompson, George Hill, Jeff Green - not quite as good as the rockets starting line-up in terms of star-power, but deeper. and the bench is much deeper - JR Smith, Rodney Hood, Cedi Osman, Larry Nance Jr, Jordan Clarkson, etc. So they don't get utterly exhausted as the game goes on, and depth is huge when teams go deep in the playoffs.

I think people don't appreciate that Harden had to do everything except when Eric Gordon helped, but LBJ had quality teammates like Love, Hill, Hood, Jeff Green who can also take the lead offensively for the bench unit. When CP3 went down the Rockets were screwed because Harden got too much playmaking responsibility.

In all, Harden's far superior regular season to win home-court, and his dominance in the playoffs, should win him POY for 2018 imo. If LBJ had a good RS this would be very close, but because his team barely got 4th in the East, I just can't see it. Cavs might have made the second round over Utah assuming their record stays the same in the West, but the Warriors would sweep them in the 2nd round. The Cavs SRS of .59 would've put them in 10th place in the West instead of the 5th rank in the East.

This is true, but there is a problem - what about when CP3 was healthy? It seemed like CP3 was the better player and when it counted it was him that made the Rockets go. If James Harden had been playing well prior to CP3 going down, it would be easier to believe his impact.

James Harden did better than Chris Paul in POY this year, yet you could make an argument that CP3 was still a better player - I don't think James Harden was shafted at all. He came in 2nd place. The same arguments that have always been against Harden are still relevant, he has great RS stats but he is not that good in the post season - as long as this trend continues, someone is pretty much always going to beat him in one of these races


While on topic, I don't understand how you think the Cavs are comparable in talent to the Rockets without Chris Paul. Unless you are going with the assumption that because Kevin Love is an all-star caliber player and no one else Harden plays with is, therefore, the Cavs are more talented then it seems like a gigantic stretch to compare JR Smith, Tristian Thompson and Kyle Korver to Trevor Ariza, Clint Capella, PJ Tucker and Eric Gordon - those 4 guys are all EXCELLENT starters, they're pretty much as good as you can be as a starter without being an all-star.

[euroleague]

When Chris Paul was injured, which was a large part of the regular season, Harden still carried the team to wins. It’s pretty difficult to doubt Harden’s regular season dominance

In the postseason, Harden definitely dominated without cp3.... until the end of games, where he’d run out of energy. In the game 7, some bad ref calls got to him very obviously. But, when JR screwed up, Lbj was way more affected than Harden post refs screwing up. And JR was an honest mistake, refs have no excuse.

Harden also was arguably better on defense than Lbj. The eye test and stats both agree here. Lbj was useless defensively except when he was locked in, which he did do occasionally.

Chris Paul had a huge RAPM advantage because he played against bench players, and carried the Rockets when Harden and the opposing stars rested. When teams double Harden he made them pay. But there’s no arguing the offense is powered by Harden, and Harden was better offensively than Lbj based on most stats. LBJ killed the raptors, but outside that series he looked very stoppable

[toodles23]

When Chris Paul was injured, which was a large part of the regular season, Harden still carried the team to wins. It’s pretty difficult to doubt Harden’s regular season dominance

In the postseason, Harden definitely dominated without cp3.... until the end of games, where he’d run out of energy. In the game 7, some bad ref calls got to him very obviously. But, when JR screwed up, Lbj was way more affected than Harden post refs screwing up. And JR was an honest mistake, refs have no excuse.

Harden also was arguably better on defense than Lbj. The eye test and stats both agree here. Lbj was useless defensively except when he was locked in, which he did do occasionally.

Chris Paul had a huge RAPM advantage because he played against bench players, and carried the Rockets when Harden and the opposing stars rested. When teams double Harden he made them pay. But there’s no arguing the offense is powered by Harden, and Harden was better offensively than Lbj based on most stats. LBJ killed the raptors, but outside that series he looked very stoppable

vs. Indiana: 34.4 ppg, 10 reb, 7.7 ast on 65.5 TS%
vs. Boston: 33.6 ppg, 9 reb, 8.4 ast on 61 TS%
vs. GSW: 34 ppg, 8.5 reb, 10 ast, 62 TS%

Seven 40 point games in those three series

"Looked very stoppable"

This guy

I also love him complaining about the refs in Harden's case, but no mention of the horrendous officiating against the Cavs in game 1 of the Finals.

[euroleague]

When Chris Paul was injured, which was a large part of the regular season, Harden still carried the team to wins. It’s pretty difficult to doubt Harden’s regular season dominance

In the postseason, Harden definitely dominated without cp3.... until the end of games, where he’d run out of energy. In the game 7, some bad ref calls got to him very obviously. But, when JR screwed up, Lbj was way more affected than Harden post refs screwing up. And JR was an honest mistake, refs have no excuse.

Harden also was arguably better on defense than Lbj. The eye test and stats both agree here. Lbj was useless defensively except when he was locked in, which he did do occasionally.

Chris Paul had a huge RAPM advantage because he played against bench players, and carried the Rockets when Harden and the opposing stars rested. When teams double Harden he made them pay. But there’s no arguing the offense is powered by Harden, and Harden was better offensively than Lbj based on most stats. LBJ killed the raptors, but outside that series he looked very stoppable

vs. Indiana: 34.4 ppg, 10 reb, 7.7 ast on 65.5 TS%
vs. Boston: 33.6 ppg, 9 reb, 8.4 ast on 61 TS%
vs. GSW: 34 ppg, 8.5 reb, 10 ast, 62 TS%

Seven 40 point games in those three series

"Looked very stoppable"

This guy

I also love him complaining about the refs in Harden's case, but no mention of the horrendous officiating against the Cavs in game 1 of the Finals.

Against Indiana and GSW his team looked worse, and he didn’t look like he could carry the load. Escaping the first round was an upset

LBJ was guarded by - Curry, Bogdonavich, Rozier- For much of those series, and played 42 minutes a game. Look at his per36 (for the whole playoffs, since not possible for series) and compare his stats/opponent with Harden

29/9/9 - Lbj 62%TS vs Bogdonavich, OG (good defender), Rozier/Morris, KD/Curry
28/5/7 - Harden 55%TS vs Jimmy Butler, Jazz (didn’t watch but obviously elite defense), Iggy/Klay/Curry

keep in mind LBJ is using KLove to pull out opposing Centers while Harden is playing with a traditional C vs Gobert/Draymond

Those are very comparable considering the opposing defenses and their strategies - opposing teams focused on Harden/Love respectively.

[eminence]

.

The Jazz covered Harden primarily with O'Neale, did a pretty good job on him too.

[Colbinii]

When Chris Paul was injured, which was a large part of the regular season, Harden still carried the team to wins. It’s pretty difficult to doubt Harden’s regular season dominance

In the postseason, Harden definitely dominated without cp3.... until the end of games, where he’d run out of energy. In the game 7, some bad ref calls got to him very obviously. But, when JR screwed up, Lbj was way more affected than Harden post refs screwing up. And JR was an honest mistake, refs have no excuse.

Harden also was arguably better on defense than Lbj. The eye test and stats both agree here. Lbj was useless defensively except when he was locked in, which he did do occasionally.

Chris Paul had a huge RAPM advantage because he played against bench players, and carried the Rockets when Harden and the opposing stars rested. When teams double Harden he made them pay. But there’s no arguing the offense is powered by Harden, and Harden was better offensively than Lbj based on most stats. LBJ killed the raptors, but outside that series he looked very stoppable

vs. Indiana: 34.4 ppg, 10 reb, 7.7 ast on 65.5 TS%
vs. Boston: 33.6 ppg, 9 reb, 8.4 ast on 61 TS%
vs. GSW: 34 ppg, 8.5 reb, 10 ast, 62 TS%

Seven 40 point games in those three series

"Looked very stoppable"

This guy

I also love him complaining about the refs in Harden's case, but no mention of the horrendous officiating against the Cavs in game 1 of the Finals.

Against Indiana and GSW his team looked worse, and he didn’t look like he could carry the load. Escaping the first round was an upset

LBJ was guarded by - Curry, Bogdonavich, Rozier- For much of those series, and played 42 minutes a game. Look at his per36 (for the whole playoffs, since not possible for series) and compare his stats/opponent with Harden

29/9/9 - Lbj 62%TS vs Bogdonavich, OG (good defender), Rozier/Morris, KD/Curry
28/5/7 - Harden 55%TS vs Jimmy Butler, Jazz (didn’t watch but obviously elite defense), Iggy/Klay/Curry

keep in mind LBJ is using KLove to pull out opposing Centers while Harden is playing with a traditional C vs Gobert/Draymond

Those are very comparable considering the opposing defenses and their strategies - opposing teams focused on Harden/Love respectively.

LeBron was often guarded by Morris, Horford, and Brown during this years Conference Finals, but you wouldn't know since you never watched the games.

Harden, although guarded by Butler, O'Neal, and Curry (what a great defender ) was also running Pick & roll getting switches...just like LeBron did to get an inferior defender on him (like Rozier).