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'17-18 POY Voting Thread

Posted: Sat Jun 9, 2018 5:12 pm
by Doctor MJ
Voting is now complete.

This is the thread we'll use to cast votes for PC board all-season awards.

First: This thread will be locked for the moment, but in general should only be posted by people I've approved, and they should only post in it once. (Once voting has been completed this won't matter any more.)

I'll put the list of approved voters lower on this post. I'll be prepopulating that list with the most active posters from the POY Discussion thread, but if you're not on that list just send me a PM saying you want a vote and explaining why you should get one. General rules are that if you've been involved in Discussion this year, or you've been an established part of the voting panel in past years, you'll get a vote.

These are the award ballots to fill out:

Player of the Year
Offensive Player of the Year
Defensive Player of the Year
Rookie of the Year
Most Improved Player
6th Man of the Year
Coach of the Year
Executive of the Year

All ballot are 3-man ballot except POY which is 5-man.
An award must be filled in order for it to count - you can't leave the 3rd EOY spot blank, etc.
You must fill out a POY if you want to participate, all other awards are optional.

When you post your ballot please make it easy to read. If you have a lot to say about a particular choice, post that beneath your whole ballot.

To be clear though, you do need to include some commentary as it is that commentary that will be valuable to those looking back in the future.

Remember that criteria here is pretty open ended but not entirely. These are awards that are about what actually happened rather than potential. Historical examples: Choosing '69 Wilt or '05 Kobe based on the effort and success they would have put in and gotten out in a different context is inappropriate.

Approved voter list:
1. Dr. Spaceman
2. dhsilv2
3. bondom34
4. clyde21
5. MisterHibachi
6. therealbig3
7. Doctor MJ
8. GSP
9. Peregrine01
10. HeartBreakKid
11. eminence
12. INKtastic
13. Krodis
14. ardee
15. Clyde Fraizer
16. Joey Wheeler
17. Texas Chuck
18. PaulieWal
19. My UniBroDavis
20. Outside
21. NinjaSheppard
22. ronnymac2
23. Missing Rings
24. JordansBulls
25. dreamshake
26. iggymcfrack
27. pelifan
28. trex_8063
29. laika
30. mischievous
31. PC Productions

Related discussion thread:
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1661408

Re: '17-18 POY Voting Thread

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:09 pm
by Doctor MJ
We're open for business. I'm going to set a soft deadline of 11:59 PM PST, Tuesday.

Re: '17-18 POY Voting Thread

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:36 pm
by mischievous
Doctor MJ wrote:We're open for business. I'm going to set a soft deadline of 11:59 PM PST, Tuesday.

I don’t see my name on the list. :wink:

Re: '17-18 POY Voting Thread

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:43 pm
by Doctor MJ
mischievous wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:We're open for business. I'm going to set a soft deadline of 11:59 PM PST, Tuesday.

I don’t see my name on the list. :wink:


Did you PM me?

I'll add you though.

Re: '17-18 POY Voting Thread (ends Tuesday Night)

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:17 am
by bondom34
Alright, have some time tonight so going to knock this out now. Will explain a little where I think it's helpful.

Player of the Year
1. Lebron James
2. James Harden
3. Anthony Davis
4. Giannis Antantetokounmpo
5. Victor Oladipo

1-4 I think most people have pretty similar. Edited to add: Lebron's playoffs put him here, and Harden struggled at times much more and still drifts defensively a good bit, he really needs to work there. great RS but I think fair to question his payoff game. AD really stepped up when Cousins went down and Giannis still had a fantastic season. Oladipo absolutely came from nowhere and I knew he was good, but not top 5 POY good. For some HM nods, CP3 and Curry due to time missed were knocked out. Can add Horford, Westbrook, and Butler as well.

Offensive Player of the Year
1. Harden
2. Lebron
3. Curry

I only don't have Paul due to time, and Harden and Lebron are incredibly close, Lebron is somehow underrated on offense. Curry is 3rd because of games missed too.

Defensive Player of the Year
1. Gobert
2. Embiid
3. Roberson

I know Gobert missing time goes against my other voting standards but the turnaround the Jazz had was almost exclusively when he returned and they were a top 3 team from that point on due to an incredible defense he anchored. I'm adding Roberson because OKC went from a top 5ish defense to a bottom 10ish one because of one guy, and having that level of impact is bizarre for a perimeter player.


Rookie of the Year
1. Simmons
2. Mitchell
3. Tatum

Most Improved Player
1. Oladipo
2. Capela
3. Adams

3 came down to Adams and Dinwiddie, I'll be honest it was close and I'm picking Adams because I like him better, think it's more sustainable, and was on a better team.


6th Man of the Year
1. Lou Williams
2. Marcus Smart
3. Tyreke Evans

Lou was a near All Star and best player on an overall winning team. I don't really see a great argument for anyone else. Smart was and is the anti-Lou, but holds together a lot of the Celtics identity. Evans was on a terrible team and was literally their only offense. I can't blame him for being the best version of himself in a bad spot. A few others were considered here but those are the 3 I think had the best overall year. Gordon was too, but he was Lou on smaller volume to me, and Olynk gets an HM as well.
Coach of the Year
1. Stevens
2. Snyder
3. Brown

I'm going Brown for 3, because I thought Philly would improve. I didn't see 50 wins and a top 4 seed. About 4 more could be in here too, this was a tough vote.

Executive of the Year
1. Ainge
2. Morey
3. Pritchard

Re: '17-18 POY Voting Thread (ends Tuesday Night)

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:49 am
by Joey Wheeler
Player of the year

1-Lebron James

Inevitable after the way he dominated in the playoffs yet again. He's no longer the best player in the NBA on a match-to-match basis throughout the season, but he still has an extra gear that's clearly above anyone else.

2-Anthony Davis

A monster on both ends of the floor, unguardable on offense and a defensive behemoth. When Lebron's reign ends, AD is next in line.

3-Kevin Durant

Again historically efficient despite a shot profile not theoretically conductive to efficiency. Great playoffs and a dominant Finals.

4-James Harden

I'm lower on Harden than most. His defensive woes are well known, but even his offense doesn't really translate that well into the playoffs. Too reliant on calls, too ball-dominant and one dimensional. Chris Paul was looking better through the first 5 games of WCF.

5-Giannis Antetokounmpo

Easy choice to round out the top 5. He should be even higher in the years to come as he keeps developing and the situation around him improves.

Offensive Player of the Year

1-Lebron James
2-James Harden
3-Kevin Durant

Defensive Player of the Year

1-Rudy Gobert
2-Anthony Davis
3-Joel Embiid

Rookie of the Year

1-Jason Tatum
2-Ben Simmons
3-Donovan Mitchell

Most Improved Player

1-Victor Oladipo
2-Steven Adams
3-Clint Capela

6th man of the Year

1-Lou Williams
2-Fred VanVleet
3-Marcus Smart

Coach of the Year

1-Brad Stevens
2-Greg Popovich
3-Quin Snyder

Executive of the Year

1-Danny Ainge
2-Daryl Morey
3-Bob Meyers

Re: '17-18 POY Voting Thread (ends Tuesday Night)

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:59 am
by JordansBulls
Player of the Year

1-James Harden

Basically would have won the title had his #2 not gone out in the series being up 3-2. Also won 3 games against the Warriors and no other team won more than 1 game against them. Had to deal with Jimmy Butler in one series and then Gobert and then the Warriors. Was dominate in the season and playoffs and was a true leader on and off the floor the whole season.

2-Anthony Davis

Dominated on both ends of the floor for both the season and playoffs and was also able to get a game against the Warriors in the playoffs as well.

3-Kevin Durant

Great in the Finals again and dominated in key matchup coming up big when needed.

4-Lebron James

Fantastic Playoffs but issues in the season and the whining and then team having to trade a bunch of players at the deadline because of bad leadership from team leader. Also then had a self inflicting injury in the finals and wasn't able to get a game in them.

5-Giannis Antetokounmpo

Wasn't that high on him initially but considering how Boston did overall I can slide him here even though expectations for Milwaukee should have been better.

HM: Stephen Curry, Kyrie Irving


Offensive Player of the Year

1-James Harden
2-Anthony Davis
3-Lebron James

Defensive Player of the Year

1-Rudy Gobert
2-Anthony Davis
3-Joel Embiid

Rookie of the Year

1-Donovan Mitchell
2-Ben Simmons
3-Jason Tatum

Most Improved Player

1-Victor Oladipo
2-Clint Capela
3-Steven Adams

6th man of the Year

1-Lou Williams
2-Fred VanVleet
3-Marcus Smart

Coach of the Year

1-Brad Stevens
2-Alvin Gentry
3-Mike D'Antoni

HM: Dwyane Casey

Executive of the Year

1-Danny Ainge
2-Daryl Morey
3-Bob Meyers

Re: '17-18 POY Voting Thread (ends Tuesday Night)

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:52 am
by HeartBreakKid
Here is my ballot without any details or explanation
Spoiler:
Player of the Year
1) James
2) Davis
3) Curry
4) Harden
5) Paul

Offensive Player of the Year
1) James
2) Harden
3) Curry

Defensive Player of the Year
1) Gobert
2) Green
3) Drummond

Rookie of the Year
1) Simmons
2) Donovan
3) Tatum

Most Improved Player of the Year
1) Oladipo
2) Holiday
3) Drummond

Sixth Man of the Year
1) L. Williams
2) Smart
3) Gordon

Coach of the Year
1) Stevens
2) D'Antoni
3) Snyder

Executive of the Year
1) Boston Celtics
2) Houston Rockets
3) Oklahoma City Thunder


Player of the Year

Lebron James – While his defense fell off a cliff this year, this was probably his best offensive year ever, or certainly close to it which is no small feat considering James’ resume. There is no player who’s offense is as consistent or as much of a sure thing as James. He had one of the greatest playoff runs of all time. While the Cavs did struggle tremendously, it is clear they were just much worse as a team this year and it wasn’t really because of James – they went from a big 3 to a semi-big 2 (kyle Korver was their 2nd best player of the playoffs, Love had a lot of struggles). Despite the Cavs having little to no other ball handlers, being old as dirt and not having any defense whatsoever (albeit they stepped it up in the post season), James still carried them to the finals in competitive series. James also lead the league in minutes and played the most games in the league if we include playoffs (82 games in the RS I believe, as well as 22 in the PS).

Anthony Davis – After James I feel like there is a decent drop off. No one really screams out dominance the same way James does. Davis is an offensive stud, and he has been a two way player for two seasons now. He’s a deep double double guy, who can block shots, defend in space, shoot, and score on really good efficiency. I think his game translates better than someone like Hardens, and CP3/Curry didn’t play that much or on a super high level – so I feel most comfortable giving Davis my vote. I do think that Davis offense is a tad overrated because he relies a lot on players creating for him, but I’m not going to hate on Karl Malone for getting his shots created for him either.

Steph Curry – Curry, Harden, Paul, Giannis and Durant are very interchangeable to me. I thought Curry was playing at his peak level this season before he went down – which was higher level of play than anyone else in the RS. I think I’ve seen enough of Curry now to see that he can be slowed down – sure he’ll still be good for 25 + 60 TS%, which is not chop liver, but you can certainly chop him down a tier than what he normally is. Fortunately for him, when Curry has to give the ball up, Durant is the guy who gets it, and Durant feast on what ever he wants.

James Harden – James Harden climbs up my rankings annually much slower than other peoples rankings. I’m just never convinced by his post season performances. I do think this PS needs to be analyzed with more nuanced. While his numbers do not look that good he is isolating a lot – so naturally his TS% isn’t going to be the best, and it isn’t THAT much worse than Curry’s (3%ish difference). Harden is a better playmaker than Curry, but is a worse defender. Many people overrated Harden’s defense because they realized that 4s and 5s can’t beat him up in the paint that easily, but Harden’s perimeter defense is pretty much just as useless as it has always been. Despite the difference in games played, I’ll give it to Curry because I think he is just another tier of player

Chris Paul – I think CP3 might still be better than Harden, but not as convinced as I am with Curry. If we got to see more of CP3 in the playoffs it’d be easier to bump him up in the rankings, but from what we seen I think this is a good spot. Yes, Giannis doesn’t make my ballot – simply put, I’d rather have CP3 than Giannis if I am trying to win a game or even a series; even if it means gambling on his health. Giannis’ boxscore stats kill CP3, but CP was on top of nearly every impact stat this season, and was probably the best player in the GSW vs HOU series (the only series that really mattered) before he went down. If HOU and GSW face each other in the 2nd round, Houston are probably champions. Durant just isn’t that impactful to me, great stats because well – the guy can put the ball in the hoop, especially when he is literally being guarded in 1 vs 1 situations. Before Durant destroyed Cleveland, people were relatively down on him – but because people glorify the FMVP Durant is hoisted on people’s shoulders. Of course Durant was going to go to town on Cleveland, Cleveland’s defense is trash. Durant isn’t as impactful as Curry, CP3 and Harden, and I’d probably take Giannis over him this season also – albeit most of these players are pretty close to each other.

Offensive Player of the Year

Lebron James – He’s a true offensive juggernaut. He is the best scorer in the NBA. If a game matters, there is no one who is least likely to get theirs than James. Durant can go cold, Curry can get stifled with double teams – James is always a lay up line, and his jumper was on point. When you consider that James is one of the best passers in the NBA, I fail to see how someone can match him offensively. James offense is the only thing that even makes the Cavs good, and he single handily had to beat the other Eastern conference teams.

James Harden – I’m not entirely convinced of Harden’s impact still, but his +/- was quite stellar in both PS and RS. While his TS% was stifled by a lot during the playoffs, his buckets are not easy buckets as he plays almost entirely in isolation, it is also possible that his TS% would have been much better if his team got past GSW (two of his OPOY rivals are on that team) and got to feast on a weak Cavs defense.

Steph Curry – This was super close between him, Harden and Paul. Curry and Paul were both hurt during the PS and RS. Curry’s stats are just prettier and more rounded, both boxscore and PS +/-. CP3 wasn’t that good for the first 2 rounds of the playoffs, but I do think winning bias makes a big difference here – but with CP3 injuring himself we’ll never know for sure. Curry only played 50 games, but he was dynamite – if Leonard can play 55 games and win DPOY, I don’t see why Curry can play 5 less games and get 3rd place for OPOY.


Defensive Player of the Year

Rudy Gobert – 2nd time in a row he is getting this award from me. He missed a chunk of games, and we saw how big of a difference it made for the Jazz. When Gobert came back to the Jazz, Utah seemed like they were the 3rd best team in the West and possibly the league. While he obviously can’t guard point guards on an island, he does effectively shut down the paint and clean up glass – and layups are the most efficient shot in basketball, not 3 pointers.

Draymond Green – He was very lackluster during the RS, and wouldn’t even place top 3 for RS only. However, he was easily the most dominant defensive player in the playoffs, and on average was GSW’s best player. GSW is a special kind of stacked when there were many games where Klay and Green won the games for them over their two MVPs. Draymond Green’s switch defense, ability to guard the rim, fast hands and man to man defense just makes him a default #2 – I just can’t think of anyone who is as good as him, so his lackluster RS doesn’t weight much to me.

Andre Drummond – He has to get a spot, right? I feel like his reputation as a one way offensive player will absolutely kill him this year. Drummond lead the league in both DRT and Defensive +/- by a LOT as well as defensive win shares. On top of that, Drummond averaged 11 rebounds and was 2nd in defensive rebounding % behind DeAndre Jordan – he also played significantly more RS games than Joel Embiid did who is probably his largest competitor (Roberson didn’t even play half the games this season nor was he as impactful). Drummond’s vastly improved positional defense and his already elite rebounding makes him arguably the best defensive player in the league this year.



Rookie of the Year

Ben Simmons – Simmons anchored a 15 win streak toward the end of the RS without Embiid. During that stretch we really got to see how Simmons can impact a game. He is the best playmaking rookie as well as the best player in the paint – on top of that he is a stellar defender, possibly the best in his class as well. His full year in the NBA has helped a lot for his rookie campaign, and while Donovan was a more effective playoff player, he wasn’t exactly dominant either. Simmons was not that good in the post season, but to his credit he was up against an elite defense in Boston, he did do a good job against Miami though.

Donovan Mitchell – We can certainly go back in a few years and say that Mitchell might have been better than Simmons. I see a lot of shades of D Wade in Mitchell – stellar athlete, good defender, high b-ball IQ. Many games he out played Russell Westbrook in his first playoff series. He has done more for his franchise and more heavy lifting than Tatum, so he gets a benefit of the doubt.

Jason Tatum – Tatum switched from being a go to isolation guy to an elite 3 and D guy flawlessly his rookie season. On top of that we got to see what Tatum was really made out of during the post season when he leads the Celtics in scoring nearly to the NBA finals. Tatum did have plenty of games where he disappeared which is expected as a rookie, and his competitors have certainly had their fair share of duds. He might already be the most impactful rookie, but because of his role it is too difficult to make such an assumption.

Most Improved Player

Victor Oladipo – Went from borderline starter to franchise player in one summer. I remember the first few games I saw Oladipo play at the start of the season I knew it wasn’t a fluke. He seems more quicker while also being more in control. His defense has a tier better, and his shot is way more consistent.

Jrue Holiday – Jrue was pretty much written off as a bum ever since he got to New Orleans back in 2014. He just hasn’t been a very impactful player, and he was already a very middling player in Philly, who hinkie sold off as soon as Holiday got an all-star accolade in a weak conference. This season though Jrue has become the best lock down defender in the league, while also increasing his scoring efficiency. On top of that Jrue is still a legitimate point guard and can rebound and pass very well. Holiday was a point guard having to play with another point guard who is way more ball dominant and can’t shoot in Rondo, yet had the best season of his career. For a player to make this type of improvement 9 seasons in is quite impressive.

Andre Drummond – Almost everything about Drummond’s game is better. I already touched on how he has become one of the best defenders in the league. Add on to that he has added a passing game as well. He has improved from 1.1 APG to 3.0 APG – he is no Jokic, but he is very patient in the high post and is adapt at hitting the right man or giving good screen/hand-offs. Drummond is no longer a guy who just gobbles up rebounds and dunks, he is a legitimately well rounded basketball player.

6th Man of the Year

Lou Williams – He was an offensive anchor for a decent Clippers team. It is possible that if the Clippers did not have so many injuries then they would have been a playoff team with Lou as their lead scorer. Unlike other seasons Lou was actually an efficient scorer, and at good volume as well. I still think it is possible I am overlooking Lou’s other flaws, mainly his dreadful defense but given his responsibilities, I think saying Lou Williams was the best bench player in a relatively weak year is not a stretch.

Marcus Smart – He is the best defensive guard in the league behind Roberson, a legit 2nd ball handler who is good for a consistent 5 APG per game, and has a stellar motor. Marcus is a juggernaut defensively and it is sad he hasn’t gotten an all-defensive award yet. Smart has the quickest hands of any guard, while also being big and strong enough to switch on to forwards and stifle them, even in the post he can delay a big long enough to receive help. He did miss a decent amount of games for Boston, but he is basically a starter on one of the best teams in the league. Terry Rozier, who some people might lobby is better wasn’t even a factor for most of the season – so while he did play more games, he was a pretty much a generic depth player (albeit productive) for most of that time.

Eric Gordon – Step down from last season, but still a good scorer in isolation which Houston keep two deadly guards at all time. His shooting was really flunky though and he doesn’t do much else – he has some mental issues in his game for sure. He stepped it up when CP3 went down in the playoffs as well. VanFleet is clutch and good at controlling the pacer, but he just doesn’t do enough yet for me to justify him on this list – he didn’t make much of a difference at all during the PS either.

Coach of the Year

Brad Stevens – Probably the best coach in ball right now. Despite Hayward going down, his team greatly overachieved in the RS and probably would have gotten #1 seed in the East if not for many more injuries happening after Hayward’s fall. On top of this the Celtics went way further than anyone would have thought in the playoffs without their two best scorers – they upset a red hot Sixers and nearly beat the defending ECF champs in the Cavs. Stevens has elite defensive schemes, well balanced offense (everyone gets to touch the ball), puts players in roles they truly excel at and is amazing at drawing plays out of time outs. On top of that, all his Celtics teams seem to have a “never say die” attitude so he installs mental toughness onto his teams as well.

Mike D’Antoni – Perhaps his COY run last year will make him a stale pick, but I thought he was way more deserving of this award this year. I think D’Antoni is the only coach who is close to Stevens this year, and he has made himself a certified first ballot HOF in my eyes. While the Rockets were expected to be one of the best teams in the league – it was basically seen as GSW #1, and whoever is in 2nd place…might as well not even try to play GSW. D’Antoni was up 3-2 against GSW despite having a roster that everyone said was inferior, and vast majority of people said would lose to GSW (I would argue GSW in 5 was the most common pick, and more people probably would have picked GSW to sweep the Rockets then for the Rockets to win). It’s not like this was a fluke either as they had the best RS record, best offense, top 6 defense (which showed up in the post season). Many people had question marks about two ball dominant players in CP3 and Harden playing together, and he pretty much maximized their production.

Quin Snyder – One difference between the Jazz and the Thunder in their series is that the Jazz played like an actual team – they had a system, and everyone had an understanding of what to do. The Thunder in contrast was just watching guys trying to take over and win a game by themselves. The Jazz were one of the best teams in the league despite untimely injury problems. Snyder gets great use out of a pass first PG and a playmaking 2 guard, while also designing the best defense in basketball (having Gobert helps).

Executive of the Year

Boston Celtics – Ainge landed ‘his guy’ in Gordan Hayward, albeit it didn’t work out due to injury issues. On top of that, he was able to ship off a ticking time bomb in Isaiah Thomas for Kyrie Irving who is younger, arguably better at the time (certainly better this year), and not an expiring contract. He traded down in the draft and took Tatum who so far looks better than both Fultz and Ball – and may end up being the best player in his draft (while also ultimately getting the Kings pick which is barely protected for next year). He let Avery Bradley walk, which was beyond smart as Bradley’s defensive impact was greatly overrated by the media and basketball fandom. If the Celtics were healthy they would have been in the finals, and maybe had an outside chance of winning a title – while still having a young core together outside of Horford and plenty of draft picks. He built a very good team this year, while also making it the team of the future.

Houston Rockets – They signed the best player in free agency in Chris Paul. PJ Tucker and Mbouh greatly boosted the Rockets defense as well. Even though it is questionable if they can retain Paul or how useful a long-time contract with Paul will be, they did make a team that could have very easily won a championship this year if not for a bum hamstring.

Oklahoma City Thunder – I’m probably the only guy here who is going to give Presti a vote, especially when Pritchard didn’t make my ballot. Yes, Carmelo Anthony wasn’t a good signing – but it was a competitive one and he didn’t really give up much (the team doesn’t need Kanter). Trading for Melo was about showing Westbrook that the Thunder were serious about competing, and Russell Westbrook re-signed with the Thunder when it was certainly not a guarantee that he would. The trade for Paul George…well, again – he technically gave away a player who had a better season in hindsight, but George was still great for OKC, and was an improvement over 2017 Oladipo. George will keep getting called a choker, but he played well and pretty much up to his standards against Utah. It seems like George will be a rental, but we should take into account that if Roberson was healthy – the Thunder likely would have been a different team. I’m not giving a vote to Pritchard because I just think the guy got a little lucky, I don’t think he knew Oladipo would be this good, and he didn’t do that much outside of getting Oladipo this season. It’s hard to punish the Pacers GM for making something out of nothing though, just think Presti made the more suave moves. I don’t understand why some people think Meyers/GSW should get votes, they didn’t do anything really than make some easy signings – sure they negotiated for Durant to take a paycut, but…meh..not a very hard sell I reckon. GSW’s dominance was built on last off season, not this one.

Re: '17-18 POY Voting Thread (ends Tuesday Night)

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:24 am
by therealbig3
Player of the Year
Offensive Player of the Year
Defensive Player of the Year
Rookie of the Year
Most Improved Player
6th Man of the Year
Coach of the Year
Executive of the Year


POY

1. LeBron James - he's just on another level than everyone else when it matters most, and it's by a lot.

2. James Harden - all-time great RS, will win a well-deserved MVP, but he wasn't all that impressive to me in the playoffs, on either side of the ball...really demonstrated the chasm between him and LeBron as players

3. Anthony Davis - feel like he's not KG-level yet, but I LOVE his offensive game, even though it might seem a little low impact at times...I'm a big fan of how he doesn't eat up the clock or just chew up a ton of possessions and does all of his work off the ball, which really allows his guards to do their thing...he lacks awareness defensively, but he makes up for most of it with insane athleticism...needs to improve on that awareness as well as his overall ability to read the defense and leverage his off-ball gravity into opportunities for teammates via his passing

4. Giannis Antetokoumpo - Monster RS with a great 1st round performance against the Celtics (who I'm very high on)...I think he's the most balanced high impact player in the league after Anthony Davis (in terms of having strong impact on both sides of the ball)

5. Kevin Durant - I've been hard on him for a while now, but he was overall really good in the playoffs and bailed out GS a lot more than people would like to admit imo...yeah, he also had his fair share of difficulties and might have hurt them to a degree in some games, which is why I feel that his impact is a lot more limited than most people think and that's why he falls to 5th here, but he still proved himself worthy of a top 5 spot imo

HM: Victor Oladipo


OPOY

1. LeBron James - not particularly close imo

2. James Harden

3. Stephen Curry - more willing to look past missed time for this award than for POY


DPOY

1. Rudy Gobert - would take a motivated Draymond Green over him, but he was most consistent all year

2. Draymond Green - mainly because of playoff run

3. Anthony Davis


ROY

1. Jayson Tatum - more complete on both sides of the ball than the other 2

2. Donovan Mitchell - already a superstar scoring machine

3. Ben Simmons - serious offensive flaw compared to the other 2, although he's the best defender of the 3


MIP

1. Victor Oladipo

2. Andre Drummond

3. Clint Capela


6MOY

1. Lou Williams

2. Eric Gordon

3. Marcus Smart


COY

1. Brad Stevens - not particularly close to me

2. Mike D'Antoni - proves for sure this time that Phoenix wasn't a fluke and that he's a legitimately great coach

3. Quinn Snyder - how the Jazz got as far as they did with the Hayward departure and all the injuries speaks volumes about Snyder


EOY

1. Danny Ainge - another choice that is just really easy for me...flipping Fultz for Tatum AND another 1st rounder gets him to the top of the list automatically, not to mention the IT for Kyrie trade and the Hayward signing...not his fault that Kyrie and Hayward weren't healthy, but he got rid of a big headache in IT and improved the roster in the process, and is still set up beautifully for the future

2. Daryl Morey - added CP3 and some others and has firmly launched Houston into GS territory

3. Kevin Pritchard - actually improved after trading PG, and got the best player in the deal (Oladipo) after being widely criticized for giving up George for seemingly nothing

Re: '17-18 POY Voting Thread (ends Tuesday Night)

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:30 am
by dreamshake
Player of the Year
1. LeBron James
2. James Harden
3. Anthony Davis
4. Giannis Antetokounmpo
5. Kevin Durant

Offensive Player of the Year
1. LeBron James
2. James Harden
3. Kevin Durant

Defensive Player of the Year
1. Rudy Gobert
2. Draymond Green
3. Joel Embiid

Rookie of the Year
1. Ben Simmons
2. Jayson Tatum
3. Donovan Mitchell

Most Improved Player
1. Victor Oladipo
2. Andre Drummond
3. Clint Capela

6th Man of the Year
1. Lou Williams
2. Eric Gordon
3. Marcus Smart

Coach of the Year
1. Brad Stevens
2. Quinn Snyder
3. Mike D’Antoni

Executive of the Year
1. Daryl Morey
2. Danny Ainge
3. Dennis Lindsey



Commentary:
Player of the Year: Harden had a bit of a lead going into the postseason for me. LeBron needed to be special in the playoffs to pass him up and he delivered. His offensive mastery was on full display and he came through time and time again with huge performances. Harden was also great at times but a little too inconsistent from game to game and seemed to have stamina issues in 2nd halves (understandable given his load - but the comparison here is LeBron, who seems to have mastered energy conservation within games - so the bar is high). Davis was an easy choice in 3rd for me - the way he carried the Pels after Cousins went down and then put up a good fight in the playoffs was admirable. Durant could’ve taken over Giannis for 4th if his decision-making had been more consistently good in the playoffs.

Offensive Player of the Year: It’s a bit weird for me to think of LeBron-Harden being in a different order for this one than for Player of the Year. LeBron’s playoff offense this year was just too masterful for me not to have him #1 here. Probably would’ve given Steph the nod for 3rd if he’d missed less games.

Defensive Player of the Year: The real debate here was Draymond vs. Embiid for #2. Draymond was definitely a level below previous years in the regular season, however Embiid missed enough games to sort of level this out. Ultimately Green’s defensive play in the WCF & Finals was enough for me to give him the nod. Honorable mention to Anthony Davis and Andre Drummond.

Rookie of the Year: I could’ve gone either way on Mitchell or Tatum for 2 and 3. I value defense quite a bit and Tatum is a more versatile and impactful defender. The way his shooting and defense meshed so well within that team was impressive but yet he was able to produce when they needed more offensive creation from him after Kyrie went down.

Most Improved Player: Yeah Oladipo was awesome. I made a more lengthy post in the discussion thread about Drummond, but I was really impressed with his drastic improvement in FT shooting, as well as becoming a legit passing threat and a better defender.

6th Man of the Year: Hard to go against Lou’s production. Had hoped Gordon could’ve stepped up even more after CP went down, but he was great all year in his role. It’s amazing how consistently Smart seems to impact games despite his limitations as a player.

Coach of the Year: Nothing crazy here - Stevens is a wizard. D’Antoni (and his staff) getting that team to defend at the level they did was impressive. They were so locked in against GSW.

Executive of the Year: Rockets proved Morey’s strategy in building a Dubkiller machine wasn’t wrong. Shout out to Dennis Lindsey for a solid response to what should’ve been a brutal blow in losing Heyward. It’s always difficult to figure out to what degree this award should be limited to moves made within the year, considering how much past moves affect the current season. In general though, impressed with the Mitchell/Ingles/Gobert (+Snyder) core he’s built. (scouting/trading for Mitchell, extending Ingles with a team-friendly contract, and bringing in Rubio were all moves within the year so that's enough to qualify for me)

Re: '17-18 POY Voting Thread (ends Tuesday Night)

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:56 pm
by dhsilv2
POY

1. Harden
2. Davis
3. Lebron
4. Giannis
5. Oladipo

OK hear me out for a second. I know moving lebron to 3 is going to upset a few people. First, lets talk about Harden who was unquestionably the most important regular season player especially when we factor in availability (Curry and Paul were great when available). I get it, despite great playoff numbers Lebron kinda dwarfed him and he had these second half collapses. I get it, but at the same time, why was his coach running a 7 man rotation, I think Harden played 2-3 quarters out elite defense and one stinker in most of the games, and I'm sorry but if refs are just going to randomly call things that shouldn't play against a player. The bottom line I think the rockets made a wise decision to slow the game down, avoid turnovers, and run isos. They just needed a bigger rotation and needed to use Gordon more instead of burning out harden as they asked him to give 110% on both ends of the court against possibly the best team in NBA history and perhaps the hardest and more physically demanding team to beat in nba history.

Next, why did I drop Lebron? Well, I just can't get past what a mess the cavs were this year and I can't get past he created a lot of it. The last straw was that he broke his hand or whatever and then pulled that idiotic stunt in the finals. After game 1 of the finals I was considering moving him over harden which for me is unthinkable given how lackluster that season was, but he honestly wasn't that impressive after game 1 in the finals. He nearly lost to indy, and ultimately his defense wasn't standing out to me in the finals either.

Dipo vs KD - I just can't get past the gap between the two defensively. Even in the indy losses the +/- with dipo painted a story that his defense was still critical for the team even if his jumper was off. KD had a great playoff run, but any player in the top 15 would look great with the warriors, I need more to move him up. I'll also use the excuse that he played 68 games to dipo's 80 as my finals push for dipo here. I don't think giannis needs any explanation i expect to see him 3-5 on nearly all lists.

Offensive Player of the year
1. Harden
2. Curry
3. Lebron

I'm unlike POY somewhat reducing the importance of missing a few games and giving Curry the nod here. For what it is worth I'd have Curry in the 6-8 range for POY and lebron's higher mostly because of his ability to dominate at times in the playoffs (and lebron really really has a higher gear defensively that he used sparingly). That said they're a coin flip for me here due to missed games by Curry. I also think this 3 is really really on another level than the rest of the league. They were the top 3 in RPM (actually just checking now after the decision) with Paul who I was considering for this group 4th and lillard who I'd not have considered 5th. Big drop off after that grouping.

Defensive player of the year.
1. Gobert
2. Covington
3. Horford

OK Gobert is a no brainer, but I expect some flack on the other two. Covington for me with playing 80 games really imo should get a lot of consideration for defensive player of the year. I know Embiid is the big man and he's a great defender. Simmons who I'll get to for ROY is another elite defender, but Covington is the guy there night in and night out who's a monster defender and IMO the primary reason that philly had the 4th best defense in the league. I need Horford somewhere here. He is the clear best player and leader of that Celtics team and I think his value goes well beyond just box score metrics and on off. He's a leader and really I believe should get a bit of the credit for that defense that is currently going to Stevenson.

ROY
1. Simmons
2. Mitchell
3. Tatum

Simmons improvement over the year was just mind blowing for me. The only team in the league who could exlpoit that shooting issue was Boston, that's it. Everyone else he made look silly challenging him to shoot, it's like they forgot he's a freakishly fast, athletic 7 footer who can get to the rim with space. He already is passing like all time elite point guards who didn't get there till their mid to late 20's. When he got more vet shooters they quickly realized their job was not to make the passes easier for him, but to get to the most optimal shooting spot and that simmons would hit them in motion. While there's a case for Mitchell and even Taum as offensive players at least as being as good as Simmons, both are far worse defenders. Simmons looks to be a guy who will be a multiple time all nba defender and may just maybe could be a DPOY level guy (yes that means philly has 3 DPOY level guys possibly on that team). Just this season especially the second half (not just the streak but this entire calendar year) Simmons was a top 10 NBA player and a top 25 defender. I saw simmons in college and was skeptical about all the hype he got, I'm now fully sold and just wondering if he's going to be Magic good or Lebron good. Odds are against either, but he's just a different kind of rookie than we're used to.

I respect Tatum's playoff fun, but I think he's getting too much credit for being a quality shooter who was paired with just a lot of guys who could create and he benefited form that. Mitchell still is the guy who if I need a basket I'd take out of the 3.

Most Improved Player
1. Oladipo
2. Capela
3. Drummond

No strong opinions on this list honestly beyond Dipo. For a guy to go from maybe an allstar to a top 5 player, that's an amazing jump.

6th man of the year
1. Gordon
2. VanVleet
3. Smart

I just can't give it to Williams, you gotta play some defense. Just a little please. I'm just bending to peer pressure on smart, I don't feel anyone is really jumping out here and to me Gordon was the runaway winner here.

Coach of the Year
1. Stevens
2. D'Antoni
3. Snyder

I might think Stevens is getting a bit too much credit, but he's still the coach of the year. I think the rockets being able to mix in the two star players is a huge testament, and it's odd. I both respect the heck out of how Dantoni coached against the warriors and I'm critical of it. I hate that 7 man rotation, but I get it. I hate the brutal running the clock out iso's, but it makes sense. I net net think he just should have made a few small changes and honestly, I thought he was going to try and win in a shootout and he was brilliant in going the other way. Snyder's decision to let a rookie take over the scoring role on his team really impressed me. I think with the injuries and new faces he did an outstanding job and in a world without houston and golden state, the jazz would have been seen as a possible contender. HM would be Pop for dealing with the Leonard issue and still having a quality defense and reasonably decent year.

Executive of the year
1. Ainge
2. Moorey
3. R.C. Buford

Ok the first two are a given, but why RC? Well with the mess that went on this year for the spurs, I'm not sure any other organization doesn't hit the panic button. Sometimes doing nothing is the right call and nobody seems to know that more than RC. Additionally, look at the contribution from Gay (good pickup), Anderson (a spurs pick from years ago that they held on to), and even Murray (another draft pick). The spurs keep finding a way with internal late round picks and quality value free agents.

Apologies if I misspelled anyone's name. I do that.

Re: '17-18 POY Voting Thread (ends Tuesday Night)

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:55 am
by clyde21
PLAYER OF THE YEAR

1. LeBron James
2. James Harden
3. Anthony Davis
4. Giannis Antetokounmpo
5. Victor Oladipo

Not quite sold on the 5th spot but Oladipo has as good of an argument as any, and the advanced metrics across the board paint him as one of the most impactful guys over the course of the season.

---

OFFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR

1. LeBron James
2. James Harden
3. Stephen Curry

Gotta go with Bron again given that he was an offensive juggernaut (should be noted that he strictly focus on that side of the ball vs. being an all-around player).

---

DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR

1. Rudy Gobert
2. Joel Embiid
3. Andre Roberson

Roberson only played 39 games but he was that good, and his impact on OKC was felt immediately after he left lineup.

---

ROOKIE OF THE YEAR

1. Donovan Mitchell
2. Jayson Tatum
3. Kyle Kuzma

Tatum was incredible in the POs but still gave the nod to Mitchell for the #1 spot. Was just amazing right from the get go this season and quickly evolved into Utah's primary scoring option which is a tough ask for any rookie.

---

MOST IMPROVED PLAYER

1. Victor Oladipo
2. Clint Capela
3. Spencer Dinwiddie

Dipo takes this one comfortably for sure. Just incredible improvement and surprisingly had a better year than Paul George when many people predicted Indiana didn't make a good trade.

---

6th MAN OF THE YEAR

1. Lou Williams
2. Fred VanVleet
3. Marcus Smart

Lou Williams was amazing though it could be argued he doesn't qualify considering he played a lot of the year as a starter. Had some absurd scoring outputs and kept the Clippers afloat during a question period in which they traded their best player.

---

COACH OF THE YEAR

1. Brad Stevens
2. Quinn Snyder
3. Nate McMillan

So many good options this year but I went with these guys given what they had to go through from players leaving in FA to dealing with injuries and getting the most out of their players.

---

EXECUTIVE OF THE YEAR

1. Danny Ainge
2. Daryl Morey
3. Kevin Pritchard

Almost impossible not to have Ainge #1. Fleeced Philly in the draft leveraged Thomas and the Nets pick into Kyrie Irving (who he may flip again).

Re: '17-18 POY Voting Thread (ends Tuesday Night)

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:39 am
by ronnymac2
Player of the Year
1. Lebron James
2. James Harden
3. Anthony Davis
4. Kevin Durant
5. Giannis Antantetokounmpo


LeBron was amazing this year. Scintillating offense, horrific defense in the REG SEA. Good defense in the playoffs. He's the best in the world. Harden should be rewarded for what in my opinion was a flawless year from beginning to end. Davis was a two-way beast. Durant proved to me that I overrated him before; I did not consider that he has a difficult time changing gears sometimes from playmaker to scorer and back. He's also a tepid passer. Giannis was great but has much to learn. Kid is scary. I've been high on him since forever.

Spoiler:
HM: Russell Westbrook (Horrible defense, scoring from different areas of floor declined), Steph Curry (Missed a whole playoff round; proved to be stoppable by simple means), Chris Paul (Super injury-prone), Jimmy Butler (Great season, though overrated on offense; USG% is too low), Draymond Green (Defensive demon in the playoffs), Victor Oladipo (Superstar potential, amazing season, ferocious defense, very overrated offense but the potential is there).


Offensive Player of the Year
1. LeBron James - Strong jumper for the season vaults the GOAT wing finisher to the top.
2. James Harden - Efficient. Machine-like. Would like him to add a post game, but can't argue with 2018 results.
3. Steph Curry - Better in some ways than his 2016 season.

Defensive Player of the Year
1. Draymond Green - His playoff defense was insane.
2. Rudy Gobert - Best traditional defensive anchor in the league. Could easily be NO. 1.
3. Joel Embiid - He can make plays defensively that nobody else can. Still makes mistakes which the guys above do not.

Spoiler:
HM: Andre Roberson (Monster on the wing), Victor Oladipo (Shut down 3-point shooting of Cleveland in round 1, Tremendous REG SEA), Andre Drummond (Strong rebounding as always, active and getting smarter)


Rookie of the Year
1. Donovan Mitchell - He's made me a believer. The way this kid weaves in and out of defenses and then has that Lillard/Kyrie trigger with the 3-point shot...man. He reminds me of Dwyane Wade and Deron Williams back in 2006 and 2007 where I marvel at his poise and bball IQ. For a rookie, he's measured and smart and calculating. Very impressed.
2. Ben Simmons - Great all year. Triple-double threat with special passing and excellent defense. Very bad scorer despite the efficiency numbers.
3. Jason Tatum - We are truly blessed to have this trio. I'm putting a rookie the caliber of Tatum third this year! He'd easily be NO. 1 most years. Showed tremendous poise in the playoffs. Great scoring skillset, excellent defense.

Most Improved Player
1. Victor Oladipo - Easily. Locks down the 3-point line while providing excellent defensive rebounding and some rim protection. Very Dwyane Wade-like on defense. His creation is pedestrian but he's willing to take on USG% and shot the 3-ball well. I expect improvements in his passing/playmaking going forward to really vault him.
2. Andre Drummond - Easily No. 2. Showed off passing acumen I never dreamed he'd have. Improved his defense and free throw shooting, too.
3. Aaron Gordon - Very difficult pick here. Could have went with Jaylen Brown, Spencer Dinwiddie, Brandon Ingram, or Jamal Murray. Went with Gordon due to the improvement in 3-point shooting (Volume and efficiency), defensive rebounding, and volume. Loads of players got better this year in a big way.

6th Man of the Year
1. Lou Williams - Played like an All-Star at times.
2. Eric Gordon - Balled out this year as a sixth man.
3. Marcus Smart - Superb defender, horrific offense but he does playmake and grabs random offensive rebounds.

Coach of the Year
1. Quinn Snyder - Despite injuries to super important players and a slow start from Rubio, the guy led Utah as far as they could possibly go.
2. Brad Stevens - Had to deal with rash of injuries. Team has loads of defensive talent, but this guy maximizes it.
3. Mike D'Antoni - He made it all work this year. Pringles fo' life.

Executive of the Year
1. Danny Ainge - Got a legit superstar in Kyrie, landed Tatum and Hayward.
2. Daryl Morey - Got Chris Paul and other defensive pieces.
3. Kevin Pritchard - Pacers are super well designed and set to be strong in the future. Got rid of overrated PG and got back excellent pieces. Admittedly, would not be on this ballot were it not for this year's MIP, but still, he got the job done.

Re: '17-18 POY Voting Thread (ends Tuesday Night)

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:25 am
by iggymcfrack
Player of the Year
1. LeBron James
2. James Harden
3. Anthony Davis
4. Giannis Antetokounmpo
5. Victor Oladipo


First off, LeBron was clearly the best player in the league in the playoffs. it was obvious to anyone with eyes. LeBron had 6 of the 9 best playoff games by Game Score; KD, CP3, and AD had one each. He made the amazing seem mundane because he was so consistently great. If anyone else had a LeBron game, it would be "OMG, ____ went off tonight, that was insane"! When LeBron did, it was "boy, that's sure consistent, 7 of those in a row now." And his playoff defense was fine. If you have to slack a little bit on D during the regular season to turn into the Terminator reborn come playoffs, I'm OK with that. Harden was the best player through the regular season, and while he seemed a little disappointing in the playoffs, that was largely due to the lofty standards he set for himself. He still had a 24.7 postseason PER despite playing a very heavy load of minutes against two suffocating defenses in Utah and Golden State. And his defense was much improved in the playoffs to the point I'd say it was maybe even above average in the Warriors series. Davis and Giannis both had PERs north of 27 while playing very impactful defense, and both led weak supporting casts into the playoffs where they played well. Davis played better in the playoffs leading his team to a surprise sweep and was honestly better on both ends over the entire season as well. Oladipo was fantastic on both ends throughout the season, playing some of the best wing defense in the league while carrying Indiana's offense as well. He had an on/off of +14.1 during the season which went all the way up to an insane +19.7 during the playoffs. I'm actually really tempted to swap him with Giannis due to his superior impact stats, but I feel like Giannis has more actual ability to affect the game and his impact is just waiting to be unleashed by the right coaching staff. I'd be very surprised if those impact numbers don't trend sharply up next year.


Offensive POY
1. LeBron James
2. James Harden
3. Stephen Curry


Not as much to say here. LeBron and Harden's dominance that allowed them to finish 1/2 in the POY vote was largely due to their offense, as both played below average defense during the regular season, and then close to average defense in the playoffs. They both absolutely ripped apart defenses putting up all-time stats, and in the playoffs, there was no question which one of them defenses feared more. The third spot has to go to Steph Curry. He did miss some games, but his offensive impact was incredible while he was in. Even with Durant on the team, the offense fell off precipitously every time he sat with an injury, and his ORPM was only slightly behind Harden's for the season. KD did have a slightly better offensive playoffs, but that doesn't make up for the huge gulf between them offensively during the season. In another playoffs, I'd still expect Steph to be a slight favorite to outperform KD offensively even if KD got him each of the last two.


Defensive POY
1. Rudy Gobert
2. Anthony Davis
3. Draymond Green


Gobert was far and away the leader in DRPM this year, and when he returned from injury he turned Utah from a good defense into far and away the best in the league. He's the one anchor that still has that Russell/Duncan/Hakeem/KG/D-Rob/Dwight like impact. His quick feet allow him to come out on the pick and roll and still race back to the rim in time to swat away any layup attempt. Davis also has one of the best DRPMs in the league despite being played out of position for much of the season. When he was the one under the rim rejecting shots instead of Cousins, the Pelicans barely missed losing a borderline Top-10 player. And Draymond slacked off for much of the season, but when it mattered, he was absolutely stifling while playing huge minutes against Houston. I think his impact was very similar to that of KD or Steph despite nearly all of it coming on the defensive end.


Rookie of the Year
1. Ben Simmons
2. Donovan Mitchell
3. Jayson Tatum


This turned into an incredibly close race once we include the postseason. All 3 guys played fantastic, and I think you could make a very good argument for each one which I'd have a difficult time refuting. Simmons showed the highest level of dominance throughout the season by far, making the entire offense go while simultaneously playing great defense. The Boston series was a disaster for him, but it honestly comes down to one man: Brad Stevens. The greatest coach of all-time managed to come up with a plan to neutralize him for a 7-game series, and his own coach wasn't smart enough to come up with a counter. That's not really something you can blame a rookie for. It's not like he had playoff nerves; he played very well in the Miami series. I'm putting this on the gameplan. Mitchell and Tatum both had unprecedentedly amazing postseasons for rookies, and again I'm giving the nod to the guy who didn't have Brad Stevens to cover all his weaknesses and amplify all of his strengths week in and week out.


Most Improved Player
1. Victor Oladipo
2. Clint Capela
3. Jaylen Brown


Obviously, this category is Oladipo by a landslide. At an age when people thought they knew what they were getting with him, Dipo went into the gym, completely re-worked his body, and turned from one of the worst second bananas in the NBA to a Top 5 player in the league. It's unprecedented. Capela also had a nice jump, getting a little bit better in every category turning the corner from an up and coming player into a legitimate superstar. The third spot, I looked desperately for a vet that had made a significant improvement and couldn't find one anywhere. So I took a young kid in Brown who mostly struggled and hurt the team his rookie season before turning into a legit asset this season. His on/off went from -7.9 in his rookie year to +8.4 this season. Was really tempted to make a joke vote for Brandon Ingram since he went from one of the worst players in the league as a rookie to someone Lakerrs fans don't want to trade for Kawhi after Year 2.


6th Man of the Year
1. Eric Gordon
2. Fred Van Vleet
3. Tyus Jones


While other sixth men struggled in the playoffs, Eric Gordon was often the go-to scoring option in the championship series against the Warriors. When the lights shined brightest and the league MVP was shrinking in the moment, it was Eric Gordon that brought the Rockets to the precipice of a championship. Van Vleet was the best player on the best bench in the NBA that led the Raptors to their best record in team history. He was an RPM superstar finishing 2nd on the team and 28th in the league. His numbers took a dive in the playoffs, but he still seemed to a good job as a playmaker initiating offense even when he wasn't the direct beneficiary. Tyus Jones is another RPM superstar that struggled in the playoffs, but with the lack of confidence shown him by Thibodeau, it's hard to say that he was really given a fair chance. He only played 55 minutes total and shot a total of 2/7 from the field. I'm sure that if you put him in Rozier's situation with a good system and a supportive coach he would have thrived.


Coach of the Year
1. Brad Stevens
2. Gregg Popovich
3. Mike D'Antoni


If you've been reading my other categories, and how much credit I've given him for his players' success, Brad Stevens at #1 should come as no surprise to you. He's had a startling impact leading his team to the 2 seed despite losing his 2nd best player 5 minutes into the season, and then he kept it going to within a game of the Finals after losing his third best player as well. He and Popovich are the only 2 coaches in the league where you feel like they can be the favorites to win even with clearly inferior talent, simply due to their coaching ability. Stevens value has been seen in the trades the Celtics make as well as the players going out tend to look much, much worse while the players coming in look much, much better. Popovich papered together a roster full of old guys, mediocre players, outright scrubs, and maybe one actual impact player in LaMarcus Aldridge and somehow went 47-35. I feel very confident that most coaches would be unable to even scratch out 40 games with that group. D'Antoni put together a great system that maximized Harden and Paul's talents even though it went against his stylistic instincts, and he deserves tons and tons of credit for that. He took a team that was supposed to be on par with OKC and turned them into legitimate championship contenders. Unfortunately, he also blew those championship chances by overusing his stars in the Warriors series. James Harden (struggles with fatigue, was getting targeted defensively every play), Chris Paul (32 year old with a history of serious injuries), Trevor Ariza (32 year old in his 14th year in the league), and PJ Tucker (32 year old who average 28 MPG during the season coming off the bench most of the time) all averaged 37-39 MPG despite several blowouts with extensive garbage time. It manifested itself in an injury and also in incredibly tired legs in Game 7 when his team went into the biggest shooting slump of all-time with tired legs. Yes, he should get credit since they wouldn't have gotten that far without him, but it's also an incredibly high leverage mistake to make with a championship on the line.


Executive of the Year
1. Daryl Morey
2. Danny Ainge
3. Rob Pelinka


Morey executed a brilliant sign-and-trade giving up not a single player that he actually needed on the roster in exchange for the best point guard in history as the culmination of years of small moves to take the Rockets from treadmill to championship contender without tanking. He surrounded his two stars with a rim-running shotblocker, and a perfect collection of 3&D roleplayers to maximize their strengths. He took a team considered "unbeatable" and "the best of all-time" and had them twice underdogs to win the series. Unfortunately, an ill-timed injury to Chris Paul, and a second-half collapse at home in Game 7 kept them a whisker away from a title, but he really couldn't have put them in a better position. Ainge meanwhile has manged to bring together a wealth of talent and picks by just winning every single trade. Morey and Ainge seem to be almost as far above the rest of the league as GMs as Stevens and Pop are on the benches. Hard to really tell who to give credit to in the Lakers' front office as it seems like Magic may share decision-making power with their nominal general manager, but the moves to combine young talent with cap space going into the summer of 2018 were a masterstroke, and a franchise that looked like it was floundering has returned to championship contention in record time.

Re: '17-18 POY Voting Thread (ends Tuesday Night)

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:55 pm
by mischievous
Ok, i'm at work but have some time to get this out there.

POY:

1. Lebron James. Fairly mediocre regular season by his standards, stopped playing D. Was a major part of the toxic/dysfunctional atmosphere that was going on mid season or so before the trade. Still, had an all time level playoff run despite all the nonsense that was put on display throughout the year. It overrides the regular season enough to be #1, but no this isn't a comparable season overall to 2012, 2013 etc.

2. James harden. This dude man. Helping anchor an all time level offense, and arguably the best team to not win a championship(that's a maybe i'd have to really think about that), and if Paul doesn't get hurt there's a solid chance we are talking about him as the best player on a title team. Still inconsistent on D, though not a legit negative like prior seasons, and still leaves some to be desired as a playoff performer. Regular season he was easily 1st.

3. Anthony Davis. Great box scores, impressive impact metrics, kept the Pelicans in the hunt without Cousins in the 2nd half or so of the season, led an impressive sweep of the Blazers, play alright against Golden State. Will be hard to see him taking the next step unless he either improves his playmaking substantially, or reaches KG/Duncan level on defense. I'm not sure how likely either is to happen, but with Lebron getting older he can still reach best in the league status even without that i think.

4. Kevin Durant. Yeah i'm not putting Oladipo over him lol, he's hated here and i get it i'm not a big fan myself but come on he was a top 5 player this season. Aside from a few bad games against Houston he seemed pretty consistent and impactful in the playoffs. People say his impact stats were weak in the regular season, but yet give Lebron a pass? Lebron on/off +2.4, KD +1.4 for their regular seasons. If we don't care what Lebron does in the regular season why shouldn't KD get the same benefit of the doubt as long as he delivers in the playoffs? And i hope someone responds to this because if you have Lebron number 1, KD can't go lower than 5th.

5. Giannis Antetokounmpo. Great scorer despite not having a real jumper, solid to great in other areas of the game, led the Bucks to a decent record and pushed the Celtics to 7. I like him over Curry and Paul due to health mostly. I like him over Oladipo because he's just flat out better.

Offensive POY:

1. Lebron
2. Harden
3. Curry

Defensive POY:


1. Gobert
2. Draymond.
3. Embiid

Davis is close, but still prefer Embiid for 3rd.

ROY:

1. Simmons
2. Mitchell
3. Taytum

Close between Simmons and Mitchell, but i won't let a bad series against Boston keep him from first.

Most improved player:

1. Victor Oladipo
2. Clint Capella
3. Drummond

6th man of the year:

1. Lou WIlliams
2. Eric Gordon
3, Marcus Smart

Coach of the Year:

1. Brad Stevens
2. Mike D'Antoni
3. Gregg Popovich

Executive of the year:


1. Danny Ainge
2. Daryl Morey
3. Kevin Pritchard

Re: '17-18 POY Voting Thread (ends Tuesday Night)

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:42 pm
by NinjaSheppard
Player of the Year:

1. James Harden: At the end of the day I am a big believer in the regular season being more valuable than the playoffs because of the sample size. I do make an exception when its clear a guy is a better playoff performer than another guy over a larger sample. LeBron James is that over James Harden but the Eastern Conference is an absolute joke and LeBron really mailed in the season defensively so his post season numbers lose some luster to me. I was impressed with how well Harden was able to defend relative to him vs the Warriors and at the end of the day the Cavs/Warriors was about as much of a series as Warriors/Villanova would be.

2. LeBron James: Another phenomenal season that raises his GOAT candidacy.

3. Kevin Durant: I think he is just slightly better at basketball than the next two guys because of his perimeter game.
4. Anthony Davis: Elite 2 way season could be higher.
5. Giannis: Elite 2 way season this feels about right.

Offensive Player of the Year:
1. James Harden:
2. LeBron James:
3. Steph Curry:

Steph gets a jump here because the other three guys are more defensive players, CP3 was hurt and I tend to forgive games missed more here.

Defensive Player of the Year:
1. Rudy Gobert
2. Anthony Davis
3. Draymond Green

Draymond might be the peak defender for the playoffs but he mailed in the regular season. Gobert transformed a defense in a way very few players can and Davis has become absolutely excellent.

Rookie of the Year:
1. Ben Simmons
2. Donovan Mitchell
3. Jayson Tatum

Pretty cut and dry in my opinion.

Most Improved Player:
1. Victor Oladipo
2. Clint Capella
3. Jrue Holiday

Voted for three 2 way players who have demonstrated growth on both ends and proven to be key playoff team contributors.

6th Man of the Year:
1. Lou Williams
2. Eric Gordon
3. FVV

Not sure I would want Lou Williams in the playoffs but that doesn't really matter here.

Coach of the Year:
1. Brad Stevens
2. Snyder
3. Mike D'Antoni

pretty straight forward

Executive of the Year
1. Danny Ainge
2. Kevin Pritchard
3. Daryl Morey

Morey is going to win this IRL but I am not sure how much Paul agreeing to go there was him. PJ Tucker was a great move but again he took a paycut to play with Chris Paul.

Ainge and Pritchard took risks that they believed in and won big time. Ainge more meaningfully.

Re: '17-18 POY Voting Thread (ends Tuesday Night)

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:10 pm
by GSP
Poy:

Lebron
Davis
Harden
Kd
Oladipo

I dont think 1-4 needs much talk. I went with Oladipo over Giannis tho its a pick em. My tie breaker was i felt Victor was more impressive against his Ecf opponent in Cavs than Giannis was against us. Middleton killed us alot in that series and Victor felt like he did more overall and they outscored the Cavs by 40 and generally beat them easy whenever he was on the court but fell apart when he was on the bench. Both carried their teams u cant go wrong with either Victor or Giannis IMO.

Opoy:

Lebron
Harden
Steph

I cant really see another order here. Hardens stepback 3 seems a legit part of his arsenal now. I was questioning how consistent itd be but it translated decent enough in the playoffs and opens the game up for him. Lebron mightve had the Goat offensive year he is easily #1

Dpoy:

Gobert
Embiid
Draymond

1 and 2 are firm cant really see an argument otherwise tho Roberson made a surprisingly amazing account of himself on the perimeter. He could be a darkhorse Dpoy in the future but too many missed games. Draymonds energy/activity in the regular season was as inconsistent as any Warrior. I cant ignore that despite how much he stepped up in the playoffs. Gobert was better overall and Embiid didnt have the consistency issues. Even against us we were crapping the bed near the paint with him there. Draymond weve seen his switching, contests and general disruption not being effective as in the past. In the Rockets series and even a couple Pelicans/Cavs games players were going at him and scoring on switches in a way i didnt see before. He was amazing against the Spurs tho

Roy:

Simmons
Mitchell
Tatum

Love Jayson and think he has the best career going forward. But just as rookies the other 2 did more for their teams. Simmons is the best rookie ive seen since Timmy and his series against us didnt change that. Outside of Timmy i cant imagine any other rookie not being exposed against the #1 defense with a basketball mastermind like Brad Stevens gameplanning them. His playmaking and vision is special and hes already close to an all defense caliber defender which is like seeing a unicorn for a rookie specially a nonbig

Mip:

Oladipo
Adams
Clint

No brainer on #1. I went with Adams over Clint b/c he was the best player on Okc for most of the season. I still feel alot of Capellas success is tied to Harden/Cp3 than an inherent improvement in his game compared to Steven

6moy:

Gordon
Smart
Tyreke

#1 is an easy choice. Eric by impact stats looked even better than Harden and Cp3 in some metrics this season. Their offense was great even with him and 1 of the others, or him alone. Hes really turned the clock back to his Clipper days i feel. I was shocked at how fast he was specially with his first step which roasted defenders all year. He even won them a few games in the playoffs when either Harden, Cp3 or both of them werent delivering on that end and had them up at halftime in both games 6 and 7 with his stellar play. Smart is our small Draymond. Incredible season from Reke wasnt expecting that at all. Hm to Fvv.......he looked like the Raptors best player in alot of the games i caught.

Coy:

Stevens
Snyder
Dantoni

Brad is the best coach in the league for sure. His Ato plays and adjustments ingames make him look like he has the impact of a top player at times. Ive never seen another coach control a game with their management and decision making the way he does. The Bucks were tough for us to beat us Celtics fans knew that going in. But we had NO BUSINESS beating the Sixers. Absolutely 0. That one road game we won was won by Brad Stevens. His playcalling down the stretch was ridiculous. To do it in 5 games and have Horford outplay Embiid in the post and completely negate Simmons? Amazing. Dantoni proved me wrong i was skeptical about the Cp3/Harden fit going in. They played historic ball when they were healthy and he developed a great system for them. He got their defensive coach drilling the defense theyd need to beat the Warriors post allstar break where they were the best defense and bottom 5 pace and it paid them dividends in the playoffs. Just came up short. I didnt think Utah was gonna make the playoffs without Gordon............and then Rudy misses a good chunk of the season and they played at a 60 something win pace for a stretch when he got back. And thats without their best perimeter defender in Thabo and upset a much more talented Okc squad without homecourt. That series prolly wouldve been over in 5 if Rudy didnt get those phantom foul calls too

Eoy:

Morey
Ainge
Masai

Its either Morey or Ainge u cant go wrong with either. I agree with Hbk that Pritchard got lucky. No one really saw this as the Pacers winning out or it even being even at the time it happened. Oladipo playing like a top 5 player is the only reason he would be getting votes and no one on this planet short of Victor and his trainers thought he could play that well. I think Masai deserves credit for what hes done with this team. Lowry and Demar are not very good players at all specially when theyre supposed to be ur 2 best players when theyre 3rd/4th options at best. I mean in what universe can anyone imagine a team led by Kyle Lowry and Demar Derozan winning damn near 60 games??? He got them a bench that had them looking like a historic alltime great bench with Goat level depth for the regular season but that wasnt enough to make up for Lowry and Derozan being 2 of the Woat playoff bed crappers. The raptors still have a bright future and young players going forward despite peaking with the Lowry/Demar experiment

Re: '17-18 POY Voting Thread (ends Tuesday Night)

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:27 pm
by eminence
Posted most of my thoughts in the discussion thread as the season went on, wound up coming down on the negative side for the injured guys (Curry/CP3), though I think there's a solid argument they were the two best players in the league when healthy this season. With them out here's the list:

1. James Harden - Doesn't have the holes all the other contenders did. Fit together seamlessly with CP3, impressive to see. Defensive effort was solid. Led a team that was more than title-worthy and came very close to taking it home.

2. LeBron James - Beyond impressive post season run. Defensive effort still wasn't there in the playoffs, and at the end of the day his team didn't look anything close to contenders despite making a finals run. Outplayed Harden in the playoffs but I don't think it quite closes the gap, Harden played well himself in the playoffs.

3. Draymond Green - Storyline similar to LBJ in many ways, unimpressive regular season, went to work in the playoffs. Thought he was the best player in the two biggest series of the playoffs (vs Rockets/Pelicans). His/the Warriors defense through the playoffs was absolutely phenomenal.

4. Anthony Davis - Better regular season than the two above him and a monstrous first round. Think he's really made some defensive strides in recent seasons, seems like you can really count on him on that end even if he's not quite at the very top of the heap. Dray outplayed him head to head come 2nd round though and didn't have the cushion Harden did to stay ahead.

5. Victor Oladipo - Very close with Giannis, barely wind up siding with Victor here. Had a very good chance to slay The King in the 1st round.

HM:
Giannis - Close, not quite.
KD - Worst regular season of any of these guys, and come playoff time was the Warriors 3rd most important player in their most competitive series.
CP3/Curry - Injuries just incredibly hard to value (especially playoff ones).

Re: '17-18 POY Voting Thread (ends Tuesday Night)

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:13 am
by mischievous
eminence wrote:
3. Draymond Green - Storyline similar to LBJ in many ways, unimpressive regular season, went to work in the playoffs. Thought he was the best player in the two biggest series of the playoffs (vs Rockets/Pelicans). His/the Warriors defense through the playoffs was absolutely phenomenal.

Do you really believe this Draymond stuff, or are you just daring to be different?

Re: '17-18 POY Voting Thread (ends Tuesday Night)

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:46 am
by PCProductions
mischievous wrote:
eminence wrote:
3. Draymond Green - Storyline similar to LBJ in many ways, unimpressive regular season, went to work in the playoffs. Thought he was the best player in the two biggest series of the playoffs (vs Rockets/Pelicans). His/the Warriors defense through the playoffs was absolutely phenomenal.

Do you really believe this Draymond stuff, or are you just daring to be different?

The Warriors had the best defense of any team in the playoffs and they played seven of their games against Houston.