General NBA discussion (2018 offseason + 2018-19 season)

[E-Balla]

That might’ve been true last year but Draymond is a bad offensive player these days and doesn’t even really seem to have it defensively anymore although he could certainly flip the switch. The Curry/Durant dynamic has kind of flipped this year where there’s not a clear indicator of who’s lineups are more effective. I don’t know if Steph is the player he used to be.

I know you’re a big Cousins guy but I don’t see him being viable in any real western conference playoff matchup.

Draymond not playing good defense is something extremely recent (as in the last month or so recent). 2 months ago he was playing amazing defense. Outside of that I think you're just being overly negative mainly because you really want to see them lose (join the gang) but let's be real unless they're fist fighting in the playoffs they got this.

I guess I just think the margins are narrower than the rest of you. And I don’t mean this as a Warriors thing I mean it as a league thing.

You can have them as favorites in every single series they play and still not think they are favorites for the title. Fatigue, both physical and mental, is a real thing. I know they’re saving themselves all RS but as the seeding shakes out currently they will draw UTA, OKC, HOU in 3 consecutive rounds. Does that seem like something you can sleepwalk through? That is BY FAR the hardest WC road they will have faced in the Kerr era. Not close at all.

If they go, say, 6 games with Utah in round 1, 6 or 7 with OKC in round 2, all of a sudden things become interesting. Going into a WCF pretty fatigued with Houston who in their own words is “obsessed” with beating them and then getting through that and facing MIL or TOR?

Things could get ugly quicker than people realize. This Warriors team is not resilient. They don’t like being punched in the mouth and if they’re already at this level of internal strife what do you think happens if day, they’re 2-2 with an OKC team they consider clearly inferior and guys start pointing fingers.

Wishful thinking is one thing. But it is looking very likely they will not have a single series that is not a challenge unless San An sneaks in and this is something we haven’t said for the Warriors in quite a while.

I don't get how they're favorite for all individual series and not the title. Who would you put as title favorites right now?

And I agree they aren't resilient, that's why they even all got together. KD was a loser, OKC couldn't consistently win the big series and probably only won the first due to injuries to the other team, Cousins never even made the PS. Still I don't think anyone is taking them to 6 this year.

[eminence]

I don't get how they're favorite for all individual series and not the title. Who would you put as title favorites right now?

And I agree they aren't resilient, that's why they even all got together. KD was a loser, OKC couldn't consistently win the big series and probably only won the first due to injuries to the other team, Cousins never even made the PS. Still I don't think anyone is taking them to 6 this year.

The East could theoretically be easy enough that though the Warriors would be favored in the finals someone like the Bucks could have a higher overall shot at the title (not that I believe that to be the case).

[Dr Spaceman]

Draymond not playing good defense is something extremely recent (as in the last month or so recent). 2 months ago he was playing amazing defense. Outside of that I think you're just being overly negative mainly because you really want to see them lose (join the gang) but let's be real unless they're fist fighting in the playoffs they got this.

I guess I just think the margins are narrower than the rest of you. And I don’t mean this as a Warriors thing I mean it as a league thing.

You can have them as favorites in every single series they play and still not think they are favorites for the title. Fatigue, both physical and mental, is a real thing. I know they’re saving themselves all RS but as the seeding shakes out currently they will draw UTA, OKC, HOU in 3 consecutive rounds. Does that seem like something you can sleepwalk through? That is BY FAR the hardest WC road they will have faced in the Kerr era. Not close at all.

If they go, say, 6 games with Utah in round 1, 6 or 7 with OKC in round 2, all of a sudden things become interesting. Going into a WCF pretty fatigued with Houston who in their own words is “obsessed” with beating them and then getting through that and facing MIL or TOR?

Things could get ugly quicker than people realize. This Warriors team is not resilient. They don’t like being punched in the mouth and if they’re already at this level of internal strife what do you think happens if day, they’re 2-2 with an OKC team they consider clearly inferior and guys start pointing fingers.

Wishful thinking is one thing. But it is looking very likely they will not have a single series that is not a challenge unless San An sneaks in and this is something we haven’t said for the Warriors in quite a while.

I don't get how they're favorite for all individual series and not the title. Who would you put as title favorites right now?

And I agree they aren't resilient, that's why they even all got together. KD was a loser, OKC couldn't consistently win the big series and probably only won the first due to injuries to the other team, Cousins never even made the PS. Still I don't think anyone is taking them to 6 this year.

I mean that I would probably take the field over them right now, but they have the highest title odds of any team.

[E-Balla]

I guess I just think the margins are narrower than the rest of you. And I don’t mean this as a Warriors thing I mean it as a league thing.

You can have them as favorites in every single series they play and still not think they are favorites for the title. Fatigue, both physical and mental, is a real thing. I know they’re saving themselves all RS but as the seeding shakes out currently they will draw UTA, OKC, HOU in 3 consecutive rounds. Does that seem like something you can sleepwalk through? That is BY FAR the hardest WC road they will have faced in the Kerr era. Not close at all.

If they go, say, 6 games with Utah in round 1, 6 or 7 with OKC in round 2, all of a sudden things become interesting. Going into a WCF pretty fatigued with Houston who in their own words is “obsessed” with beating them and then getting through that and facing MIL or TOR?

Things could get ugly quicker than people realize. This Warriors team is not resilient. They don’t like being punched in the mouth and if they’re already at this level of internal strife what do you think happens if day, they’re 2-2 with an OKC team they consider clearly inferior and guys start pointing fingers.

Wishful thinking is one thing. But it is looking very likely they will not have a single series that is not a challenge unless San An sneaks in and this is something we haven’t said for the Warriors in quite a while.

I don't get how they're favorite for all individual series and not the title. Who would you put as title favorites right now?

And I agree they aren't resilient, that's why they even all got together. KD was a loser, OKC couldn't consistently win the big series and probably only won the first due to injuries to the other team, Cousins never even made the PS. Still I don't think anyone is taking them to 6 this year.

I mean that I would probably take the field over them right now, but they have the highest title odds of any team.

Basically you're saying they have a sub 50% chance of winning so it's weird to be so sure they're going to win?

Not sure if I can agree because I don't think I'd say any team ever has a 50% chance of winning at this point of the season. I mean just off injuries alone I would never say that.

[Dr Spaceman]

I don't get how they're favorite for all individual series and not the title. Who would you put as title favorites right now?

And I agree they aren't resilient, that's why they even all got together. KD was a loser, OKC couldn't consistently win the big series and probably only won the first due to injuries to the other team, Cousins never even made the PS. Still I don't think anyone is taking them to 6 this year.

I mean that I would probably take the field over them right now, but they have the highest title odds of any team.

Basically you're saying they have a sub 50% chance of winning so it's weird to be so sure they're going to win?

Not sure if I can agree because I don't think I'd say any team ever has a 50% chance of winning at this point of the season. I mean just off injuries alone I would never say that.

The 17 Warriors team was very clearly over the field in terms of title odds. A lot here considered the 18 team to be as well though I was more a believer in Houston than most.

But this year it is a crowded field meaning the gap between GSW and the #2-6 is way smaller than its ever been. I would consider putting even money on TOR or MIL to win the title as GSW even though I would favor GSW slightly in a Finals series, if that makes sense. GSW would be slightly heavier favorites over OKC and HOU.

Basically I’m saying there’s a lot of good teams this year and GSW will have to slug it out with HOU and OKC which leaves them quite vulnerable.

[E-Balla]

I mean that I would probably take the field over them right now, but they have the highest title odds of any team.

Basically you're saying they have a sub 50% chance of winning so it's weird to be so sure they're going to win?

Not sure if I can agree because I don't think I'd say any team ever has a 50% chance of winning at this point of the season. I mean just off injuries alone I would never say that.

The 17 Warriors team was very clearly over the field in terms of title odds. A lot here considered the 18 team to be as well though I was more a believer in Houston than most.

But this year it is a crowded field meaning the gap between GSW and the #2-6 is way smaller than its ever been. I would consider putting even money on TOR or MIL to win the title as GSW even though I would favor GSW slightly in a Finals series, if that makes sense. GSW would be slightly heavier favorites over OKC and HOU.

Basically I’m saying there’s a lot of good teams this year and GSW will have to slug it out with HOU and OKC which leaves them quite vulnerable.

I get it. Don't agree outside of Milwaukee though but I don't think Milwaukee is better than the 2017 Cavs.

[Dr Spaceman]

Basically you're saying they have a sub 50% chance of winning so it's weird to be so sure they're going to win?

Not sure if I can agree because I don't think I'd say any team ever has a 50% chance of winning at this point of the season. I mean just off injuries alone I would never say that.

The 17 Warriors team was very clearly over the field in terms of title odds. A lot here considered the 18 team to be as well though I was more a believer in Houston than most.

But this year it is a crowded field meaning the gap between GSW and the #2-6 is way smaller than its ever been. I would consider putting even money on TOR or MIL to win the title as GSW even though I would favor GSW slightly in a Finals series, if that makes sense. GSW would be slightly heavier favorites over OKC and HOU.

Basically I’m saying there’s a lot of good teams this year and GSW will have to slug it out with HOU and OKC which leaves them quite vulnerable.

I get it. Don't agree outside of Milwaukee though but I don't think Milwaukee is better than the 2017 Cavs.

I think Milwaukee and Toronto are better than that Cavs team. They were so bad defensively.

Regardless this is mostly to do with GSW’s decline along with the rise of challengers in HOU and OKC which make their odds to get out of the west less likely.

[E-Balla]

The 17 Warriors team was very clearly over the field in terms of title odds. A lot here considered the 18 team to be as well though I was more a believer in Houston than most.

But this year it is a crowded field meaning the gap between GSW and the #2-6 is way smaller than its ever been. I would consider putting even money on TOR or MIL to win the title as GSW even though I would favor GSW slightly in a Finals series, if that makes sense. GSW would be slightly heavier favorites over OKC and HOU.

Basically I’m saying there’s a lot of good teams this year and GSW will have to slug it out with HOU and OKC which leaves them quite vulnerable.

I get it. Don't agree outside of Milwaukee though but I don't think Milwaukee is better than the 2017 Cavs.

I think Milwaukee and Toronto are better than that Cavs team. They were so bad defensively.

Regardless this is mostly to do with GSW’s decline along with the rise of challengers in HOU and OKC which make their odds to get out of the west less likely.

We'll see. I definitely understand where you're coming from but somehow I can't get it out my mind how you felt the same way last year if not stronger.

[Dr Spaceman]

I get it. Don't agree outside of Milwaukee though but I don't think Milwaukee is better than the 2017 Cavs.

I think Milwaukee and Toronto are better than that Cavs team. They were so bad defensively.

Regardless this is mostly to do with GSW’s decline along with the rise of challengers in HOU and OKC which make their odds to get out of the west less likely.

We'll see. I definitely understand where you're coming from but somehow I can't get it out my mind how you felt the same way last year if not stronger.

But last year the Warriors were a Chris Paul injury away from losing. If Houston stayed healthy I very likely would’ve been right.

[E-Balla]

I think Milwaukee and Toronto are better than that Cavs team. They were so bad defensively.

Regardless this is mostly to do with GSW’s decline along with the rise of challengers in HOU and OKC which make their odds to get out of the west less likely.

We'll see. I definitely understand where you're coming from but somehow I can't get it out my mind how you felt the same way last year if not stronger.

But last year the Warriors were a Chris Paul injury away from losing. If Houston stayed healthy I very likely would’ve been right.

Well you can go back to my posts from before his injury, a Chris Paul injury was inevitable.

Plus Iggy getting hurt made a huge difference also. Games 4 and 5 were close enough for me to think with Iggy through the whole series Houston loses in 5.

[bondom34]

This isn't a good look

Read on Twitter

?s=21

[Dr Spaceman]

This isn't a good look

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Yeah I mean we knew this in July. If Les was still in charge there is a 100% chance they run it back with Ariza and Luc.

Still though this is a VERY bad sign for Houston’s future. They are under the tax now IIRC but this pretty much confirms Tillman is a “I will never pay the tax” type of owner. Sad days.

[Dr Spaceman]

We'll see. I definitely understand where you're coming from but somehow I can't get it out my mind how you felt the same way last year if not stronger.

But last year the Warriors were a Chris Paul injury away from losing. If Houston stayed healthy I very likely would’ve been right.

Well you can go back to my posts from before his injury, a Chris Paul injury was inevitable.

Plus Iggy getting hurt made a huge difference also. Games 4 and 5 were close enough for me to think with Iggy through the whole series Houston loses in 5.

Don’t really want to re-litigate the series for the 1000th time, but all this means is the series essentially was a coin flip. I had HOU as slight favorites with HCA, GSW winning is still Avery likely outcomes especially in 7. And even without Paul the Rockets were right there in G7 if not for the worst shooting slump in history.

Regardless the Rox will be a tough out. GSW are favorites this year no doubt but HOU has a sizable coaching advantage (I consider MDA the best active coach right now), experience and a proven scheme to defend them. They are dangerous as are OKC. Harden is better than last year too.

Right now whoever gets the #1 seed in the east gets even money with GSW IMO but a lot can change in the next few weeks.

[eminence]

I'm pretty sure Houston is over the tax this season and will be for the foreseeable future without big moves (Harden/CP3 deals are humongous).

Edit: Guess they managed to squeeze under this season from what I'm reading.

[Dr Spaceman]

I'm pretty sure Houston is over the tax this season and will be for the foreseeable future without big moves (Harden/CP3 deals are humongous).

Edit: Guess they managed to squeeze under this season from what I'm reading.

Cleveland took the hit for them at the deadline taking on Chriss and Knight for 2nd rounders I believe.

[Jaivl]

I guess I just think the margins are narrower than the rest of you. And I don’t mean this as a Warriors thing I mean it as a league thing.

You can have them as favorites in every single series they play and still not think they are favorites for the title. Fatigue, both physical and mental, is a real thing. I know they’re saving themselves all RS but as the seeding shakes out currently they will draw UTA, OKC, HOU in 3 consecutive rounds. Does that seem like something you can sleepwalk through? That is BY FAR the hardest WC road they will have faced in the Kerr era. Not close at all.

If they go, say, 6 games with Utah in round 1, 6 or 7 with OKC in round 2, all of a sudden things become interesting. Going into a WCF pretty fatigued with Houston who in their own words is “obsessed” with beating them and then getting through that and facing MIL or TOR?

Things could get ugly quicker than people realize. This Warriors team is not resilient. They don’t like being punched in the mouth and if they’re already at this level of internal strife what do you think happens if day, they’re 2-2 with an OKC team they consider clearly inferior and guys start pointing fingers.

Wishful thinking is one thing. But it is looking very likely they will not have a single series that is not a challenge unless San An sneaks in and this is something we haven’t said for the Warriors in quite a while.

I don't get how they're favorite for all individual series and not the title. Who would you put as title favorites right now?

And I agree they aren't resilient, that's why they even all got together. KD was a loser, OKC couldn't consistently win the big series and probably only won the first due to injuries to the other team, Cousins never even made the PS. Still I don't think anyone is taking them to 6 this year.

I mean that I would probably take the field over them right now, but they have the highest title odds of any team.

Oh, the Warriors aren't even close to 50%. That would be around an 85% fav to win every series, which I don't think has ever happened, and certainly not this year.

[E-Balla]

But last year the Warriors were a Chris Paul injury away from losing. If Houston stayed healthy I very likely would’ve been right.

Well you can go back to my posts from before his injury, a Chris Paul injury was inevitable.

Plus Iggy getting hurt made a huge difference also. Games 4 and 5 were close enough for me to think with Iggy through the whole series Houston loses in 5.

Don’t really want to re-litigate the series for the 1000th time, but all this means is the series essentially was a coin flip. I had HOU as slight favorites with HCA, GSW winning is still Avery likely outcomes especially in 7. And even without Paul the Rockets were right there in G7 if not for the worst shooting slump in history.

Regardless the Rox will be a tough out. GSW are favorites this year no doubt but HOU has a sizable coaching advantage (I consider MDA the best active coach right now), experience and a proven scheme to defend them. They are dangerous as are OKC. Harden is better than last year too.

Right now whoever gets the #1 seed in the east gets even money with GSW IMO but a lot can change in the next few weeks.

As much as a coinflip as the 08 Celtics and Hawks series was, sure.

And Mike Dantoni is a garbage coach so we'll judt have to disagree. The idea he's anything but well below average and Houston is an easy 1st round out if CP3 doesn't recover is just absurd to me. Only OKC if they get it all together (and I have no doubt they won't) can challenge Golden State imo.

[HeartBreakKid]

We'll see. I definitely understand where you're coming from but somehow I can't get it out my mind how you felt the same way last year if not stronger.

But last year the Warriors were a Chris Paul injury away from losing. If Houston stayed healthy I very likely would’ve been right.

Well you can go back to my posts from before his injury, a Chris Paul injury was inevitable.

Plus Iggy getting hurt made a huge difference also. Games 4 and 5 were close enough for me to think with Iggy through the whole series Houston loses in 5.

At least they had Iggy, Mbah Moute was a fraction of the player he was by the time that series happened. Mbah Moute was better than Andre Iguodalla last year, and Chris Paul certainly was.

Also, Steph Curry is more injury prone than Chris Paul so I don't really get your inevitability statement.

Most people who said the Rockets are fools gold are too embarrassed to admit that they were wrong, and will just rest on confirmation bias because the Rockets did lose in the end.

[Dr Spaceman]

As much as a coinflip as the 08 Celtics and Hawks series was, sure.

Don’t do this. Houston has the far better record, far better SRS, had a better offense, a better defense, won more games, and was up 3-2 before their best player got injured. They were 40-4, 12 SRS with their lineup healthy. The only argument for GS being better was prior performance, which is a good one, but to act like Houston wasn’t on their level or better is insanity.

And Mike Dantoni is a garbage coach so we'll judt have to disagree. The idea he's anything but well below average and Houston is an easy 1st round out if CP3 doesn't recover is just absurd to me. Only OKC if they get it all together (and I have no doubt they won't) can challenge Golden State imo.

Then you just haven’t paid any attention since 2013. I hate debating this with New York fans. I understand you guys hate him. But try to understand coaches develop like players do. The job D’Antoni has done in Houston over the last three years is literally unimpeachable, I don’t even know what aspect of the job you’d be able to criticize.

[E-Balla]

But last year the Warriors were a Chris Paul injury away from losing. If Houston stayed healthy I very likely would’ve been right.

Well you can go back to my posts from before his injury, a Chris Paul injury was inevitable.

Plus Iggy getting hurt made a huge difference also. Games 4 and 5 were close enough for me to think with Iggy through the whole series Houston loses in 5.

At least they had Iggy, Mbah Moute was a fraction of the player he was by the time that series happened. Mbah Moute was better than Andre Iguodalla last year, and Chris Paul certainly was.

Also, Steph Curry is more injury prone than Chris Paul so I don't really get your inevitability statement.

Most people who said the Rockets are fools gold are too embarrassed to admit that they were wrong, and will just rest on confirmation bias because the Rockets did lose in the end.

Come on now this is a blatant lie. CP3 was hurt in the 2012, 2015, 2016, and 2018 playoffs. That's 4 of the last 7. 2 of those were 1 round appearances. There's no possible way to say Curry is more injury prone. Again I said this last year, even beyond who you think is better healthy the reality of the situation is that Chris Paul isn't lasting though the playoffs. I said it last year, and you guys acted like I was exaggerating until it happened.

And Mbah a Moute was hurt and we knew that last year well before the series happened so why mention him?

Here's the facts: that series went to 7 games. It still wasn't close. Golden State won all their games in blowouts besides game 7. Houston won 2 games where Igoudala was missing by 7 combined points. That series was more Boston-Hawks 08 than Boston-Bulls 09. Houston lost by 9 ppg. In games featuring CP3 they were outscored by 5 ppg despite being up 3-2. In games Iggy played they were outscored by 11 ppg. Mbah a Moute isn't changing that.

You're focusing on what you thought about each team not what you saw on the floor because what I saw on the floor was a Houston team playing great just to barely squeak by a Golden State team playing bad and missing their 5th best player.