General NBA discussion (2018 offseason + 2018-19 season)

Post #721 » by **PaulieWal** » Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:20 pm

Dr Spaceman wrote:
PaulieWal wrote:
Except D'Antoni doesn't get hailed as an innovator just because of the PnR, it's because he blended the PnR with a faster pace, spacing and 3 point shooting, and playing small on offense to have more shooters and skilled offensive players (and he did all of this in a league playing slow and not really understanding the concept of spacing and having 5 offensive skilled players out there).

Pick and roll in 2004 was already doing everything D’Antoni was doing except for having the absolute GOAT finisher of all time who was quicker and could jump higher than anyone at his position and drew fouls on 60% of his attempts along with the greatest passer and 3 point shooter off the dribble the league had ever seen along with elite shooting wings like Joe Johnson and Q-Rich who combined for 12 threes per game on elite percentages. I think you’re wrong because D’Antoni didn’t innovate any of that.

PaulieWal wrote:Smallball in 2012-2015 was already doing everything the Warriors are doing except for having the absolute GOAT shooter of all-time who can make shots from the half-court at a 40% clip. I think and others seem to agree that you wrong here because the Warriors did not innovate any of this stuff at all.

Kevin Garnett played under 5 coaches before one figured out how he could be best used to defend the pick and roll. Finding a way to use elite talent is a much, much bigger deal than you seem to think it is. Or do you think the Bucks’ imporovement this year is a fluke?

Alright, we are done here.

Have a good one.

Dr Spaceman · Post #722 » by **Dr Spaceman** » Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:32 pm

PaulieWal wrote:
Dr Spaceman wrote:
PaulieWal wrote:
Except D'Antoni doesn't get hailed as an innovator just because of the PnR, it's because he blended the PnR with a faster pace, spacing and 3 point shooting, and playing small on offense to have more shooters and skilled offensive players (and he did all of this in a league playing slow and not really understanding the concept of spacing and having 5 offensive skilled players out there).

Pick and roll in 2004 was already doing everything D’Antoni was doing except for having the absolute GOAT finisher of all time who was quicker and could jump higher than anyone at his position and drew fouls on 60% of his attempts along with the greatest passer and 3 point shooter off the dribble the league had ever seen along with elite shooting wings like Joe Johnson and Q-Rich who combined for 12 threes per game on elite percentages. I think you’re wrong because D’Antoni didn’t innovate any of that.

PaulieWal wrote:Smallball in 2012-2015 was already doing everything the Warriors are doing except for having the absolute GOAT shooter of all-time who can make shots from the half-court at a 40% clip. I think and others seem to agree that you wrong here because the Warriors did not innovate any of this stuff at all.

Kevin Garnett played under 5 coaches before one figured out how he could be best used to defend the pick and roll. Finding a way to use elite talent is a much, much bigger deal than you seem to think it is. Or do you think the Bucks’ imporovement this year is a fluke?

Alright, we are done here.

Have a good one.

Okay. I don’t know how else to get the point across that you could discredit every good coach ever by pointing to their talent level. But apparently it didn’t work this time either.

Have a good one too.

AussieBuck · Post #723 » by **AussieBuck** » Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:42 am

Spoiler:

Awesome work, going to argue that the Bucks aren't regressing to the mean, we've just been through a month of having the most wide open threes in the league and hit them at 25th in the league rate. Shooting will get to a reasonable level and teams won't be able to pack the paint anymore. Defense is also trending upward with the inclusion of DJ Wilson in the big man rotation.

Pillendreher · Post #724 » by **Pillendreher** » Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:16 am

AussieBuck wrote:Awesome work, going to argue that the Bucks aren't regressing to the mean, we've just been through a month of having the most wide open threes in the league and hit them at 25th in the league rate. Shooting will get to a reasonable level and teams won't be able to pack the paint anymore.

Interesting, I didn't notice that. I have to say though: From boxscore watching, I've seen you guys hit plenty of 3s. :lol:

AussieBuck · Post #725 » by **AussieBuck** » Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:14 pm

Pillendreher wrote:
AussieBuck wrote:Awesome work, going to argue that the Bucks aren't regressing to the mean, we've just been through a month of having the most wide open threes in the league and hit them at 25th in the league rate. Shooting will get to a reasonable level and teams won't be able to pack the paint anymore.

Interesting, I didn't notice that. I have to say though: From boxscore watching, I've seen you guys hit plenty of 3s.

Today was the first time in a while we managed to punish a team for building the old Giannis wall in the paint.

Post #726 » by **Clyde Frazier** » Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:39 pm

Read on Twitter

Posting a 99 ORtg *this season* is impressively bad

Post #727 » by **bondom34** » Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:01 am

Clyde Frazier wrote:

Read on Twitter

Posting a 99 ORtg *this season* is impressively bad

After today's game, 98.6. Their defense is way better, but yikes that offense.

Post #728 » by **bondom34** » Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:23 pm

Was going to post in the Westbrook thread, then the OT thread, but it kinda fits here. NBA.com really sucks. Like they took down play type data, random links won't work, the glossary is confusing (defended FG% is " The opponents field goal percentage on shots when the player is defending the shot"...Great! What is "defending" defined as?). Just everything went downhill and it's annoying.

Post #729 » by **Clyde Frazier** » Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:37 pm

bondom34 wrote:Was going to post in the Westbrook thread, then the OT thread, but it kinda fits here. NBA.com really sucks. Like they took down play type data, random links won't work, the glossary is confusing (defended FG% is " The opponents field goal percentage on shots when the player is defending the shot"...Great! What is "defending" defined as?). Just everything went downhill and it's annoying.

I think i'm fairly intuitive when it comes to figuring out software UIs on the fly, and yet their stats site is a nightmare to navigate. I totally understand that it's a huge undertaking, but many times I think i've found what i'm looking for only to see it's something completely different. They should partner with basketball reference or something. Their site is barebones in design, but it just works (most of the time, heh).

Pillendreher · Post #730 » by **Pillendreher** » Tue Jan 1, 2019 4:38 pm

They've also remove the page for general touches, so now I have to go through 3 different websites to get the total touches for players. That's just something I don't get.

ardee · Post #731 » by **ardee** » Wed Jan 2, 2019 1:05 pm

AD just put up a stretch of 34/15/4/2/2 and we really haven't even seen it get a mumble. These are better numbers than when he went bonkers last year after Boogie went down.

THAT'S how insane this season is.

Post #732 » by **Texas Chuck** » Wed Jan 2, 2019 2:15 pm

ardee wrote:AD just put up a stretch of 34/15/4/2/2 and we really haven't even seen it get a mumble. These are better numbers than when he went bonkers last year after Boogie went down.

THAT'S how insane this season is.

His team isn't winning. And people are focusing on his next destination. Everyone already knows what an individual talent the guy is so those numbers no longer surprise anyone.

He's ridiculous offensively. Just ridiculous. There are no answers. And that's with a mess of a roster around him.

MisterHibachi · Post #733 » by **MisterHibachi** » Wed Jan 2, 2019 4:27 pm

ardee wrote:AD just put up a stretch of 34/15/4/2/2 and we really haven't even seen it get a mumble. These are better numbers than when he went bonkers last year after Boogie went down.

THAT'S how insane this season is.

I think he would be considered the best player in the league if he put these numbers up in May or June, and he certainly has the potential to do it if he ever gets the opportunity to play that late.

Post #734 » by **Clyde Frazier** » Wed Jan 2, 2019 5:18 pm

Read on Twitter

For a guy who's had real trouble shooting the ball (although better of late), gotta give trae props for distributing. That's an impressive list to be on as a rookie.

Also not surprising to see giannis 2nd in the league in total 3PT assists. His ability to draw in the defense on his drives and hit 3PT shooters with quick, pin point passes is huge.

AussieBuck · Post #735 » by **AussieBuck** » Thu Jan 3, 2019 2:49 am

Clyde Frazier wrote:

Read on Twitter

For a guy who's had real trouble shooting the ball (although better of late), gotta give trae props for distributing. That's an impressive list to be on as a rookie.

Also not surprising to see giannis 2nd in the league in total 3PT assists. His ability to draw in the defense on his drives and hit 3PT shooters with quick, pin point passes is huge.

Yeah from memory we are number one for wide open three attempts but near the worst for making them. Lots of room for improvement for Giannis' and the team's numbers.

Post #736 » by **bondom34** » Thu Jan 3, 2019 3:37 am

bondom34 wrote:
Clyde Frazier wrote:

Read on Twitter

Posting a 99 ORtg *this season* is impressively bad

After today's game, 98.6. Their defense is way better, but yikes that offense.

14 games now.

98.1

Pillendreher · Post #737 » by **Pillendreher** » Thu Jan 3, 2019 11:19 am

ardee wrote:AD just put up a stretch of 34/15/4/2/2 and we really haven't even seen it get a mumble. These are better numbers than when he went bonkers last year after Boogie went down.

THAT'S how insane this season is.

You have to feel bad for the guy. The team can't defend and it feels like his individual accomplishments are for nothing.

ardee · Post #738 » by **ardee** » Thu Jan 3, 2019 11:52 am

Pillendreher wrote:
ardee wrote:AD just put up a stretch of 34/15/4/2/2 and we really haven't even seen it get a mumble. These are better numbers than when he went bonkers last year after Boogie went down.

THAT'S how insane this season is.

You have to feel bad for the guy. The team can't defend and it feels like his individual accomplishments are for nothing.

Mate I was a Lakers fan through '05-'07... Trust me I know all about stars playing at a historic level while dealing with inept teammates.

I'm not a betting man (on sports anyway), but if I was, if there was any big star in the league who is not going to be with that same team in 12 months time, I'd put money on it being Davis.

He just put up 34/26 tonight. We haven't seen a big this dominant since Shaq left his prime after '03. Neither Duncan nor KG nor Dwight later were ever at this level offensively.

Jaivl · Post #739 » by **Jaivl** » Thu Jan 3, 2019 3:33 pm

ardee wrote:
Pillendreher wrote:
ardee wrote:AD just put up a stretch of 34/15/4/2/2 and we really haven't even seen it get a mumble. These are better numbers than when he went bonkers last year after Boogie went down.

THAT'S how insane this season is.

You have to feel bad for the guy. The team can't defend and it feels like his individual accomplishments are for nothing.

Mate I was a Lakers fan through '05-'07... Trust me I know all about stars playing at a historic level while dealing with inept teammates.

I'm not a betting man (on sports anyway), but if I was, if there was any big star in the league who is not going to be with that same team in 12 months time, I'd put money on it being Davis.

He just put up 34/26 tonight. We haven't seen a big this dominant since Shaq left his prime after '03. Neither Duncan nor KG nor Dwight later were ever at this level offensively.

Even after 01, maybe. Also, what about Dirk?

The-Power · Post #740 » by **The-Power** » Thu Jan 3, 2019 4:01 pm

Clyde Frazier wrote:Also not surprising to see giannis 2nd in the league in total 3PT assists. His ability to draw in the defense on his drives and hit 3PT shooters with quick, pin point passes is huge.

Not to forget his team's general focus on shooting 3's (2nd in 3PAr), and some assists are also from dribble-handoffs, plays in which Giannis plays more like a big. But yeah, Giannis' ability to break down defenses towards the rim is obviously incredible and the fact that he creates many 3's comes as no surprise. It's really a potent strategy. Giannis provides all the inside scoring and gravity towards the rim, and his teammates focus on spotting up. Add to this some PnR-play by the Guards, and the occasional non-Giannis post-up against mismatches and the Bucks have plenty of potential to be an offensive threat deep into the playoffs.

ardee wrote:He just put up 34/26 tonight. We haven't seen a big this dominant since Shaq left his prime after '03. Neither Duncan nor KG nor Dwight later were ever at this level offensively.

Considering that Giannis is a PF, it's incredible that we basically have two such dominant offensive bigs in today's league. Add to this Embiid, who has his own fair share of incredible, as well as Jokic, who obviously plays very differently, and today's league is in good bigs' hands. And there's still some hope for Towns left.

And with Jaren Jackson and Ayton entering the league, and Zion being a 4 in today's league with a strong inside game and James Wiseman having some similarities to Davis, the influx of bigs isn't stopping it seems. I'll be closely following who of these bigs develops a game which allows them to have an offensive impact comparable to – or even better than – the top-tier perimeter players. Should be interesting to observe.