Best NBA Player Year By Year Since 2000.

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Re: Best NBA Player Year By Year Since 2000. 

Post#21 » by Unbiased hater » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:40 pm

My list:

2000: Shaq
2001:Shaq
2002: Shaq
2003: Duncan
2004: Garnett
2005: Garnett
2006: Kobe
2007: Kobe
2008: Kobe
2009: Kobe
2010: Kobe
2011: Dirk
2012: LeBron
2013 : LeBron
2014: LeBron
2015: Curry
2016: Curry
2017: Durant
2018: Durant
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Re: Best NBA Player Year By Year Since 2000. 

Post#22 » by euroleague » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:23 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:
ChartFiction wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
Skill isn't impact. Why are impact stats not measuring impact? I'm seriously asking for you to explain this.


He's just making the distinction that skill and impact aren't stats that are measured. There are stats that correlate but would fail to be considered a measurement of skill and impact, i.e fg% or rapm.


Using that logic points scored is not a metric for scoring. I think we'd all agree we have ways to measure who is better at scoring in terms of volume, and no we don't just use 1 metrics but that's a given with everything.


ppg is a raw/pure stat, comparing it to the advanced stats being used and claiming the logic is the same is logical fallacy. I doubt you understand impact stats, but taking the argument that any advanced stat is a pure measurement of something shows rather clearly you don’t understand what the stat is
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Re: Best NBA Player Year By Year Since 2000. 

Post#23 » by dhsilv2 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:27 pm

euroleague wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
ChartFiction wrote:
He's just making the distinction that skill and impact aren't stats that are measured. There are stats that correlate but would fail to be considered a measurement of skill and impact, i.e fg% or rapm.


Using that logic points scored is not a metric for scoring. I think we'd all agree we have ways to measure who is better at scoring in terms of volume, and no we don't just use 1 metrics but that's a given with everything.


ppg is a raw/pure stat, comparing it to the advanced stats being used and claiming the logic is the same is logical fallacy. I doubt you understand impact stats, but taking the argument that any advanced stat is a pure measurement of something shows rather clearly you don’t understand what the stat is


You have still failed to explain anything to further this discussion. And no PPG is not by any means raw or pure. If you mean that I can strictly tell you how many points were scored in a game then yes I can tell you what happened in that extreme sense. However I cannot take that based on what you're implying and say that someone who averages 40 PPG is a good scorer or better scorer. That seems like backwards logic, but that is effectively what you're saying.
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Re: Best NBA Player Year By Year Since 2000. 

Post#24 » by An Unbiased Fan » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:36 pm

2000 - Shaq
2001 - Shaq
2002 - Shaq
2003 - TD
2004 - KG
2005 - TD
2006 - Kobe
2007 - Kobe
2008 - Kobe
2009 - Kobe
2010 - Kobe
2011 - Dirk
2012 - Lebron
2013 - Lebron
2014 - Lebron
2015 - Curry
2016 - Curry
2017 - Lebron
2018 - Lebron
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Re: Best NBA Player Year By Year Since 2000. 

Post#25 » by euroleague » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:39 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:
euroleague wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
Using that logic points scored is not a metric for scoring. I think we'd all agree we have ways to measure who is better at scoring in terms of volume, and no we don't just use 1 metrics but that's a given with everything.


ppg is a raw/pure stat, comparing it to the advanced stats being used and claiming the logic is the same is logical fallacy. I doubt you understand impact stats, but taking the argument that any advanced stat is a pure measurement of something shows rather clearly you don’t understand what the stat is


You have still failed to explain anything to further this discussion. And no PPG is not by any means raw or pure. If you mean that I can strictly tell you how many points were scored in a game then yes I can tell you what happened in that extreme sense. However I cannot take that based on what you're implying and say that someone who averages 40 PPG is a good scorer or better scorer. That seems like backwards logic, but that is effectively what you're saying.

No... you’re saying that using two raw stats - FG% and ppg - we can determine scoring. Because you have no idea what advanced stats are, you are applying the same argument incorrectly to them, saying ‘impact stats’ measure impact which is not worth debating
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Re: Best NBA Player Year By Year Since 2000. 

Post#26 » by An Unbiased Fan » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:45 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:Durant over James hurts my soul.

Yep, at no point has KD been better than Lebron. I'm no fan of Lebron, but it would be silly to not give him POY from 12-14 and the last two seasons. I just wish people did the same on their lists.
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Re: Best NBA Player Year By Year Since 2000. 

Post#27 » by eminence » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:47 pm

euroleague wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
euroleague wrote:
ppg is a raw/pure stat, comparing it to the advanced stats being used and claiming the logic is the same is logical fallacy. I doubt you understand impact stats, but taking the argument that any advanced stat is a pure measurement of something shows rather clearly you don’t understand what the stat is


You have still failed to explain anything to further this discussion. And no PPG is not by any means raw or pure. If you mean that I can strictly tell you how many points were scored in a game then yes I can tell you what happened in that extreme sense. However I cannot take that based on what you're implying and say that someone who averages 40 PPG is a good scorer or better scorer. That seems like backwards logic, but that is effectively what you're saying.

No... you’re saying that using two raw stats - FG% and ppg - we can determine scoring. Because you have no idea what advanced stats are, you are applying the same argument incorrectly to them, saying ‘impact stats’ measure impact which is not worth debating


Hmm, could you give your definition of impact here? Cause for what I have in my mind when I think of impact - difference in team quality with and without a player the available impact stats seem to do a half decent job.
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Re: Best NBA Player Year By Year Since 2000. 

Post#28 » by dhsilv2 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:50 pm

euroleague wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
euroleague wrote:
ppg is a raw/pure stat, comparing it to the advanced stats being used and claiming the logic is the same is logical fallacy. I doubt you understand impact stats, but taking the argument that any advanced stat is a pure measurement of something shows rather clearly you don’t understand what the stat is


You have still failed to explain anything to further this discussion. And no PPG is not by any means raw or pure. If you mean that I can strictly tell you how many points were scored in a game then yes I can tell you what happened in that extreme sense. However I cannot take that based on what you're implying and say that someone who averages 40 PPG is a good scorer or better scorer. That seems like backwards logic, but that is effectively what you're saying.

No... you’re saying that using two raw stats - FG% and ppg - we can determine scoring. Because you have no idea what advanced stats are, you are applying the same argument incorrectly to them, saying ‘impact stats’ measure impact which is not worth debating


What makes them "raw"? More importantly I'm discussing scoring which is just as opaque given your line of reasoning. It is highly likely that you're not well versed on all the stats that are out there and do not understand how much more data we actually do have. However it does little good if you believe we cannot measure anything meaningful ever with metrics.
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Re: Best NBA Player Year By Year Since 2000. 

Post#29 » by euroleague » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:56 pm

eminence wrote:
euroleague wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
You have still failed to explain anything to further this discussion. And no PPG is not by any means raw or pure. If you mean that I can strictly tell you how many points were scored in a game then yes I can tell you what happened in that extreme sense. However I cannot take that based on what you're implying and say that someone who averages 40 PPG is a good scorer or better scorer. That seems like backwards logic, but that is effectively what you're saying.

No... you’re saying that using two raw stats - FG% and ppg - we can determine scoring. Because you have no idea what advanced stats are, you are applying the same argument incorrectly to them, saying ‘impact stats’ measure impact which is not worth debating


Hmm, could you give your definition of impact here? Cause for what I have in my mind when I think of impact - difference in team quality with and without a player the available impact stats seem to do a half decent job.


Point differential caused by a player being in the game

How much is dictated by coaching, system, opposing coaching/system, teammates, team fit, opposing player matchups,

replacement player - when KD leaves he gets replaced by Iggy, an elite player familiar with the system. When Draymond leaves, he gets replaced by Zaza or McGee, who don’t play nearly the same way. Thus, Draymond destroys all impact stats in a way it’s very unlikely he could replicate in a standard role.

Bench players also get inflated impact stats. Manu was a top 3 impact player from many measures...
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Re: Best NBA Player Year By Year Since 2000. 

Post#31 » by eminence » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:06 pm



Playoff RAPM will basically only ever tell you which players played the most minutes on the best teams, I think everyone agrees that the sample size is too small.
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Re: Best NBA Player Year By Year Since 2000. 

Post#32 » by euroleague » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:12 pm

eminence wrote:


Playoff RAPM will basically only ever tell you which players played the most minutes on the best teams, I think everyone agrees that the sample size is too small.


No. Notice thon maker over lebron. The stat isn’t about minutes played

Using the 4 year model, which includes basically an entire season, Draymond crushes everyone.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vSzp3G5rwP9xgCgluVGmR3Qj4-BMoGSYiuTKM6o_pzES6s95oQE1nQvB2CXed-4fRc_MMGgpULtDaJ_/pubhtml?gid=1009708809&single=true
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Re: Best NBA Player Year By Year Since 2000. 

Post#33 » by dhsilv2 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:17 pm

euroleague wrote:
eminence wrote:


Playoff RAPM will basically only ever tell you which players played the most minutes on the best teams, I think everyone agrees that the sample size is too small.


No. Notice thon maker over lebron. The stat isn’t about minutes played

Using the 4 year model, which includes basically an entire season, Draymond crushes everyone.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vSzp3G5rwP9xgCgluVGmR3Qj4-BMoGSYiuTKM6o_pzES6s95oQE1nQvB2CXed-4fRc_MMGgpULtDaJ_/pubhtml?gid=1009708809&single=true


Wouldn't you expect Draymond to be high on a 4 year metric of impact?
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Re: Best NBA Player Year By Year Since 2000. 

Post#34 » by euroleague » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:33 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:
euroleague wrote:
eminence wrote:
Playoff RAPM will basically only ever tell you which players played the most minutes on the best teams, I think everyone agrees that the sample size is too small.


No. Notice thon maker over lebron. The stat isn’t about minutes played

Using the 4 year model, which includes basically an entire season, Draymond crushes everyone.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vSzp3G5rwP9xgCgluVGmR3Qj4-BMoGSYiuTKM6o_pzES6s95oQE1nQvB2CXed-4fRc_MMGgpULtDaJ_/pubhtml?gid=1009708809&single=true


Wouldn't you expect Draymond to be high on a 4 year metric of impact?


Higher than Curry, Lbj, KD, Kawhi, by huge margins. Now you are referring to my expectations instead of the ‘measurements’. You are arguing this directly shows Draymond to be worth more than Curry and AD combined, correct?
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Re: Best NBA Player Year By Year Since 2000. 

Post#35 » by eminence » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:49 pm

Adding postseasons together like that doesn't really work all that well, the majority of players still won't have enough time both on and off to create a stable result. But I'm not surprised Draymond would rank #1 in recent playoff RAPM. He's been a monster over the course of the Warriors run.
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Re: Best NBA Player Year By Year Since 2000. 

Post#36 » by mlp22 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:51 pm

I wouldn't have Kobe anywhere on this list at all, but that's just me.

2006 Wade basically carried the Heat to the title. He was especially filthy in the ECF and NBA Finals.

2007 - I'd take Duncan, Dirk, LBJ, KG over Kobe that year.

2008 - I think this belongs to KG

2009 - LBJ and KG probably top two candidates.

2010 - LBJ top dog with KD and Wade a slight notch below.
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Re: Best NBA Player Year By Year Since 2000. 

Post#37 » by mischievous » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:00 pm

2000: Shaq
2001: Shaq
2002: Shaq
2003: Duncan
2004: Kg
2005: Kg
2006: Wade
2007: Kobe
2008: Kobe
2009: Lebron
2010: Lebron
2011: Dirk
2012: Lebron
2013: Lebron
2014: Lebron
2015: Curry
2016: Lebron
2017: Lebron
2018: Lebron

Durant was never the best player outside of the 14’ Regular season.

The ones i’m hesitant on: 2002(possibly Duncan), 2005(Nash and Duncan are right there), 2007(possibly Duncan)

It’s a little weird to me that Curry’s season as best player was his 3rd best season overall.
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Re: Best NBA Player Year By Year Since 2000. 

Post#38 » by euroleague » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:03 pm

eminence wrote:Adding postseasons together like that doesn't really work all that well, the majority of players still won't have enough time both on and off to create a stable result. But I'm not surprised Draymond would rank #1 in recent playoff RAPM. He's been a monster over the course of the Warriors run.

Draymond didn’t even much play in 14.

Kawhi and lebron have played similar amounts. And Draymond has the “impact” of both of them combined.
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Re: Best NBA Player Year By Year Since 2000. 

Post#39 » by mischievous » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:05 pm

For those that have Kobe as the best in 09(which is a ridiculous opinion but that’s another story), i’d like to know how Wade isn’t the best in 06?
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Re: Best NBA Player Year By Year Since 2000. 

Post#40 » by An Unbiased Fan » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:34 pm

mischievous wrote:For those that have Kobe as the best in 09(which is a ridiculous opinion but that’s another story), i’d like to know how Wade isn’t the best in 06?

Kobe was the best player in 2006 in most people's opinion. Sure, the media didn't want to give him MVP because of Colorado, but he was universally thought of as the "Best Player". So much so that he was All-NBA 1st team, with Wade as 2nd team. Kobe was also 1st team All-D. Had two 40 ppg months(only Wilt has done the same in their whole career), and had people watching mid-season NBA games over the NFL playoffs. LA did lose to the #2 seed in 7-games, but you would be hard pressed to find a player who was better than Kobe in 2006. Wade had a fantastic Finals, but wasn't better than Kobe who literally outscored those same Mavs through 3 quarters...by himself. :lol:

As for 2009. Kobe was still All-NBA 1s team/All-D 1st team, and was the beat player in the NBA. Lebron may be the most talented player ever, but he didn't learn how to utilize those skills until the 2011 experience where he was forced to. LBJ more than anyone should have went to college. Just a couple years would have done wonders for him, especially off the ball. Would have loved to see 2012-2014 Lebron back in the 09-011 years.
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