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Name them.

So far only so sure about one thing. Amar'e Stoudemire and Steve Nash at number 1.

Oscar Robertson and Wayne Embry probably wouldn't get mentions, but they were excellent duo in two men actions.

Jason Kidd Kenyon Martin
John Stockton Karl Malone
Stephen Curry, Draymond Green
Gary Payton, Shawn Kemp
Chris Paul, DeAndre Jordan

Nash and Amare were amazing and probably no 1, but I think one underrated duo deserves at least a mention: Mark Price and Brad Dugherty.

James Harden and Clint Capela should get a mention.

What Steph and Draymond run can’t even really be called a pick and roll and there were 35 players who ran more pick and roles per game than Steph this season, including a number of bench guards.

Kidd/Kenyon Martin
CP3/Tyson Chandler
Calderon/Bosh

Dr Spaceman wrote:James Harden and Clint Capela should get a mention.

What Steph and Draymond run can’t even really be called a pick and roll and there were 35 players who ran more pick and roles per game than Steph this season, including a number of bench guards.

This is because Steve Kerr. I have no idea why he doesn't like to run PnR. I understand he likely saves it for the important moments of the season, but even there he prefers ball movement most of time. I think they run less PnR plays year after year.

Dr Spaceman wrote:What Steph and Draymond run can’t even really be called a pick and roll and there were 35 players who ran more pick and roles per game than Steph this season, including a number of bench guards.

Currently yes. But they were spamming the Steph/Draymond pick 'n' roll all the time in '15. They've gradually moved away from it.

Don't really understand why they've done so. The free-flowing off-ball movement heavy offense is great, but the Warriors don't even utilize pick 'n' rolls and pick 'n' pops when they're struggling to get a rhythm going. Makes no sense, as Steph/KD would probably be the most unguardable pick 'n' pop duo in NBA history and the Steph/Draymond pick 'n' roll was a huge element of their offense in a championship season.

SlowPaced wrote:

Dr Spaceman wrote:What Steph and Draymond run can’t even really be called a pick and roll and there were 35 players who ran more pick and roles per game than Steph this season, including a number of bench guards.

Currently yes. But they were spamming the Steph/Draymond pick 'n' roll all the time in '15. They've gradually moved away from it.

Don't really understand why they've done so. The free-flowing off-ball movement heavy offense is great, but the Warriors don't even utilize pick 'n' rolls and pick 'n' pops when they're struggling to get a rhythm going. Makes no sense, as Steph/KD would probably be the most unguardable pick 'n' pop duo in NBA history and the Steph/Draymond pick 'n' roll was a huge element of their offense in a championship season.

Seems rather clear it has to be related to KD. Doesn't make any sense but I suppose he's not a fan.

Curry and Durant pick-and-rolls are DEVASTATING.

Too bad they don’t deserve a mention here. They rarely run the play.

dhsilv2 wrote:

SlowPaced wrote:

Dr Spaceman wrote:What Steph and Draymond run can’t even really be called a pick and roll and there were 35 players who ran more pick and roles per game than Steph this season, including a number of bench guards.

Currently yes. But they were spamming the Steph/Draymond pick 'n' roll all the time in '15. They've gradually moved away from it.

Don't really understand why they've done so. The free-flowing off-ball movement heavy offense is great, but the Warriors don't even utilize pick 'n' rolls and pick 'n' pops when they're struggling to get a rhythm going. Makes no sense, as Steph/KD would probably be the most unguardable pick 'n' pop duo in NBA history and the Steph/Draymond pick 'n' roll was a huge element of their offense in a championship season.

Seems rather clear it has to be related to KD. Doesn't make any sense but I suppose he's not a fan.

They started going away from it in '16 though. They didn't run nearly as much pick 'n' roll in 2016 as they did in 2015. After KD joined they've barely been running it all.

Trundle wrote:Nash and Amare were amazing and probably no 1, but I think one underrated duo deserves at least a mention: Mark Price and Brad Dugherty.

Watch on YouTube

I remember Mark Price, he was a surgeon on the court, picking teams apart. Comparing Curry to him is reasonable. Price's shooting and control was unmatched in certain ways in that era. He wasn't Stockton but he was the best at the way he did things.

These don’t get enough mention.

Curry/KD
Curry/Dray
Harden/Capela

Kyrie/LeBron

“How LeBron and Kyrie orchestrate the NBA's scariest play”

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19439829/zach-lowe-lebron-james-kyrie-irving-1-3-pick-roll-nba

John Stockton + Karl Malone
Steve Nash + Amare Stoudemire
Tony Parker + Tim Duncan
Gary Payton + Shawn Kemp
Walt Frazier + Willis Reed
Julius Erving + Moses Malone
Dennis Johnson + Larry Bird
Kobe Bryant + Pau Gasol
Kevin Johnson + Charles Barkley

kendogg wrote:John Stockton + Karl Malone
Steve Nash + Amare Stoudemire
Tony Parker + Tim Duncan
Gary Payton + Shawn Kemp
Walt Frazier + Willis Reed
Julius Erving + Moses Malone
Dennis Johnson + Larry Bird
Kobe Bryant + Pau Gasol
Kevin Johnson + Charles Barkley

Some great mentions, but Dr J and Moses don't belong here. Julius played his share of P&Rs (both as a screener and ball-handler) but he didn't do it often with Moses. Surprisingly, Toney played the most P&Rs with Moses and they were hard to stop indeed.

Malone didn't have enough volume of P&Rs to be considered in this thread though. He was good screener and tough to guard because he had great combination of inside and outside game, but that wasn't his game. Maybe he would do it more today (in Duncan model) but he didn't. Lanier or Cowens played a lot more two men actions for example.

Marcus Smart Al Horford

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How can Nash/Amare be a lock for number 1 and Nash/Dirk not get a mention? I realize it was far less dunks, but it wasn't far less effective. Dirk and Jason Terry absolutely belong on this list as well.

I'd have Stockton/Malone as number 1 btw. They did it as good as just about anyone and they did it forever. And without any other significant threats on the court(and please don't tell me Horny).

yeah Stockton and Malone are the clear #1.

70sFan wrote:Dr J and Moses don't belong here. Julius played his share of P&Rs (both as a screener and ball-handler) but he didn't do it often with Moses. Surprisingly, Toney played the most P&Rs with Moses and they were hard to stop indeed.

Malone didn't have enough volume of P&Rs to be considered in this thread though. He was good screener and tough to guard because he had great combination of inside and outside game, but that wasn't his game. Maybe he would do it more today (in Duncan model) but he didn't. Lanier or Cowens played a lot more two men actions for example.

I'm sure you've watched far more footage of the 70's than me. That is by far my weakest era in terms of watched footage. From all accounts I've read, Moses is a good high post player and great pick setter, and that the duo had good chemistry. I can't say that what footage I have watched of them there is a ton of P&R's, so I more extrapolated from the qualities of what generally makes a good P&R duo. Are you downplaying your opinion for effect, or firmly believe that wasn't even a mention-able skillset they had? Or just not good enough to list on an all time list?

kendogg wrote:yeah Stockton and Malone are the clear #1.

70sFan wrote:Dr J and Moses don't belong here. Julius played his share of P&Rs (both as a screener and ball-handler) but he didn't do it often with Moses. Surprisingly, Toney played the most P&Rs with Moses and they were hard to stop indeed.

Malone didn't have enough volume of P&Rs to be considered in this thread though. He was good screener and tough to guard because he had great combination of inside and outside game, but that wasn't his game. Maybe he would do it more today (in Duncan model) but he didn't. Lanier or Cowens played a lot more two men actions for example.

I'm sure you've watched far more footage of the 70's than me. That is by far my weakest era in terms of watched footage. From all accounts I've read, Moses is a good high post player and great pick setter, and that the duo had good chemistry. I can't say that what footage I have watched of them there is a ton of P&R's, so I more extrapolated from the qualities of what generally makes a good P&R duo. Are you downplaying your opinion for effect, or firmly believe that wasn't even a mention-able skillset they had? Or just not good enough to list on an all time list?

Mainly the way they worked together. Sixers just didn't run Julius/Moses P&Rs often. Erving also wasn't the type of player who would be among very best in P&R situation as a ball-handler. He had good handles and he did well against the pressure and doubles but that could slow him down. He'd be actually amazing as a screener (Green-like) and he did it sometimes.

Also, Julius offensive game quickly declined after Moses trade. He was old and past his prime for most of Moses time in Philly. You can't compare that to 20 years of Stockton-Malone or even Nash-Amare. 1976-82 Julius with 1979-85 Moses? Sure, it's closer but that's not the case here.

I'm a big fan of a couple of Lebron pairings - Lebron/Irving and Lebron/Bosh