The CP3 Thread 18-19 Part 1

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Re: The CP3 Thread 18-19 Part 1 

Post#361 » by ShotCreator » Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:16 pm

limbo wrote:For as long as i can remember, one of the biggest complains about CP3's game was that he selfishly monopolizes the ball on offense and makes every possession about how much he can dribble around in search for the perfect pass while making the offense stagnant. I thought that was one of the dumbest things i've heard, but if there was even a modicum of doubt about his offensive flexibility and impact it was dispelled in the last two and a half years basically. First he joins the most dominant on-ball player in NBA history in Houston and adapts/sacrifices his game to form the greatest back-court of all time. And now, at 34 years of age, he's been forcefully traded into a young/flawed team where he fully embraced a more egalitarian style of offense and seems to be perfectly fine sharing the court with several ball-handlers. Not only that, they seemingly found a way to thrive together off their strengths and minimized their weaknesses.

CP3 is one of the best players of all-time and that's with accounting for the fact that he was historically derailed by inopportune injuries and bad luck. Arguably the best player to potentially never win a ring. Deal with it.

Billups/Bledsoe/CP3 lineups also crushed the league that last Del Negro year. And they still had Crawford to feed, with absolutely no floor space because of Griffin/Jordan.

This is nothing new. He and Collison had great cohesion for a second time with Gentry’s offense.

Him letting primary ballhandlers thrive is really nothing he hasn’t done. And just like now it’ll only show up in impact stats because he’s letting guys be their best selves while still being himself.

I was watching 11-12 CP3 the other night and him being athletically diminished is such a myth it’s unbelievable.

In today’s game, where ballhandlers tend to go the Luka/Trae route instead of what CP3 does, he would’ve put up mind boggling numbers. Not that it would be surprising.

CP3 was still a rim pressure demon up until 2014-15.
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Re: The CP3 Thread 18-19 Part 1 

Post#362 » by Peregrine01 » Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:39 pm

CP3 may be the greatest all-around PG of all time. I can't put him up there with the GOAT PGs because I think he limited the ceilings of the offenses that he played on due to his need for control during his prime years. Those Clips were loaded with offensive talent, yet routinely produced +4 ORTGs during their run and never really touched the heights that his contemporaries did (Nash and later, Curry). Plus, I think that his constant seeking for control alienated a lot of his teammates and he kinda burned a lot of bridges. He was unfortunate with injuries but he also brought a lot of stuff on himself as well.
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Re: The CP3 Thread 18-19 Part 1 

Post#363 » by Lost92Bricks » Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:45 pm

Peregrine01 wrote:CP3 may be the greatest all-around PG of all time. I can't put him up there with the GOAT PGs because I think he limited the ceilings of the offenses that he played on due to his need for control during his prime years. Those Clips were loaded with offensive talent, yet routinely produced +4 ORTGs during their run and never really touched the heights that his contemporaries did (Nash and later, Curry). Plus, I think that his constant seeking for control alienated a lot of his teammates and he kinda burned a lot of bridges. He was unfortunate with injuries but he also brought a lot of stuff on himself as well.

In the 6 years they had a 115.8 offensive rating with him on the floor. That's #1 in the entire league, higher than Lebron, Durant, Curry, Harden, Anybody else in that span.

Here are the Clippers' ORtg's with CP3 on the floor.

118.7

118.1

116.5

114.3

113.6

113.5

And this is without playing with a great scorer like Nash and Curry did.

I bring this stat up constantly and it gets completely ignored every time. Chris Paul "limited" the ceiling of an offense that was #1 in the NBA. I don't get it.
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Re: The CP3 Thread 18-19 Part 1 

Post#364 » by Lost92Bricks » Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:52 pm

In 2015, it was the Clippers, NOT the Warriors who were the #1 offense in the NBA.

Also, in his first year in Houston, they had a 120 ORtg with CP3 on the floor. The year right before that on a completely different Clipper team with different coaching and different style of play, they had a 119 ORtg with CP on the floor.

He adjusted to Houston's style of play (when everybody said he wouldn't fit). Handled the ball less, took fewer midrange jumpers, took more threes and still the same result.
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Re: The CP3 Thread 18-19 Part 1 

Post#365 » by TroubleS0me » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:26 pm

Lob City Clippers should have made it to the finals @ least once. The talent was there.
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Re: The CP3 Thread 18-19 Part 1 

Post#366 » by K_chile22 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:58 pm

Honestly just think he never got fully over his elbow tendonitis last season, and he needed to lose weight. Went vegan this off season and now he's much more lean and explosive, and had time for his elbow to get right.
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Re: The CP3 Thread 18-19 Part 1 

Post#367 » by TroubleS0me » Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:39 am

revenge game for his return in Houston
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Re: The CP3 Thread 18-19 Part 1 

Post#368 » by Lost92Bricks » Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:01 am

This team has had some of the CRAZIEST wins I've ever seen from a team. The game where CP snitched on Jordan Bell to get the delay of game and then the Steven Adams pass to Schroeder, the b2b 26 and 24 point comebacks, the game on New Years against Dallas...crazy.
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Re: The CP3 Thread 18-19 Part 1 

Post#369 » by wutevahung » Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:04 am

Lost92Bricks wrote:
Peregrine01 wrote:CP3 may be the greatest all-around PG of all time. I can't put him up there with the GOAT PGs because I think he limited the ceilings of the offenses that he played on due to his need for control during his prime years. Those Clips were loaded with offensive talent, yet routinely produced +4 ORTGs during their run and never really touched the heights that his contemporaries did (Nash and later, Curry). Plus, I think that his constant seeking for control alienated a lot of his teammates and he kinda burned a lot of bridges. He was unfortunate with injuries but he also brought a lot of stuff on himself as well.

In the 6 years they had a 115.8 offensive rating with him on the floor. That's #1 in the entire league, higher than Lebron, Durant, Curry, Harden, Anybody else in that span.

Here are the Clippers' ORtg's with CP3 on the floor.

118.7

118.1

116.5

114.3

113.6

113.5

And this is without playing with a great scorer like Nash and Curry did.

I bring this stat up constantly and it gets completely ignored every time. Chris Paul "limited" the ceiling of an offense that was #1 in the NBA. I don't get it.


JW, doesn't the ORTG of the player already implies it's the team offense efficiency with him the on floor?

also, Where did you get your #? I used NBA.com's filter, with minimum 10 mins per game and minimum twenty games for 15-16 and 16-17, I got

Curry- 15-16 season, 117.5 ORTG, #1 in the league
16-17 season, 120.1 ORTG, #1 in the league
CP: 15-16 season, 112.3 ORTG, #10 in the league
16-17 season, 117.3 ORTG, #3 in the league
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Re: The CP3 Thread 18-19 Part 1 

Post#370 » by Lost92Bricks » Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:10 am

wutevahung wrote:JW, doesn't the ORTG of the player already implies it's the team offense efficiency with him the on floor?

also, Where did you get your #? I used NBA.com's filter, with minimum 10 mins per game and minimum twenty games for 15-16 and 16-17, I got

Curry- 15-16 season, 117.5 ORTG, #1 in the league
16-17 season, 120.1 ORTG, #1 in the league
CP: 15-16 season, 112.3 ORTG, #10 in the league
16-17 season, 117.3 ORTG, #3 in the league

I used bbref. They calculate offensive rating slightly different from NBA.com.

http://bkref.com/tiny/S1HkU
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Re: The CP3 Thread 18-19 Part 1 

Post#371 » by HeartBreakKid » Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:10 am

When ever teams lose people always say it's because of the offense. It's not just with CP3 people say this, I've even heard people say this with Lebron James of all people lol... the vice versa is true as well, a lot of people attribute wins to offensive play even if defense played a bigger role in winning (like the Curry Warriors pre durant).

And yeah, saying CP3 puts a ceiling on your offense makes little sense, given that all his teams have incredible offenses. A lot of those statements are people just not used to seeing players dominate on offense without dunking or taking half court shots.
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Re: The CP3 Thread 18-19 Part 1 

Post#372 » by Dr Spaceman » Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:11 pm

Peregrine01 wrote:CP3 may be the greatest all-around PG of all time. I can't put him up there with the GOAT PGs because I think he limited the ceilings of the offenses that he played on due to his need for control during his prime years. Those Clips were loaded with offensive talent, yet routinely produced +4 ORTGs during their run and never really touched the heights that his contemporaries did (Nash and later, Curry). Plus, I think that his constant seeking for control alienated a lot of his teammates and he kinda burned a lot of bridges. He was unfortunate with injuries but he also brought a lot of stuff on himself as well.


Blake did way more ball handling than anyone on the Warriors and Paul gave more control to Harden than Curry did to Durant.
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Re: The CP3 Thread 18-19 Part 1 

Post#373 » by Peregrine01 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:22 pm

Dr Spaceman wrote:
Peregrine01 wrote:CP3 may be the greatest all-around PG of all time. I can't put him up there with the GOAT PGs because I think he limited the ceilings of the offenses that he played on due to his need for control during his prime years. Those Clips were loaded with offensive talent, yet routinely produced +4 ORTGs during their run and never really touched the heights that his contemporaries did (Nash and later, Curry). Plus, I think that his constant seeking for control alienated a lot of his teammates and he kinda burned a lot of bridges. He was unfortunate with injuries but he also brought a lot of stuff on himself as well.


Blake did way more ball handling than anyone on the Warriors and Paul gave more control to Harden than Curry did to Durant.


I think that was a function of the different style offenses. GSW was never a pick and roll team after Kerr came in whereas the Clippers were. And by the time CP went to Houston it was clear Harden was the on-ball alpha whereas that was never the case with KD and GSW. That being said, I’ve been very impressed with how CP adapts to new roles despite his grouching about it afterward.
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Re: The CP3 Thread 18-19 Part 1 

Post#374 » by Lost92Bricks » Sun Jan 26, 2020 5:10 am

I think we can all agree he's not even close to being washed and has a ALOT of basketball still left in him.
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Re: The CP3 Thread 18-19 Part 1 

Post#375 » by GSP » Sun Jan 26, 2020 5:22 am

Love the pride and competitiveness of Cp3

Okc having the same amount of wins as Houston is incredible
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Re: The CP3 Thread 18-19 Part 1 

Post#376 » by TroubleS0me » Sun Jan 26, 2020 5:30 am

all star & MVP candidate this season
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Re: The CP3 Thread 18-19 Part 1 

Post#377 » by ShotCreator » Sun Jan 26, 2020 2:11 pm

Last 5:


26/5/6 with 2.4 TOV on .673 TS% in just 29.8 MPG.

OKC is SMASHING with him on the court, +24.7 net rating.

127.9 ORTG, 103.2 DRTG.


Without: 107.7 ORTG, 114.9 DRTG

He’s running out a +31.9 net on/off in his last 5.


They cannot trade Dennis/Paul/Gallo/Adams yet. Do it in the off-season.

Dort/Bazley/Diallo are improving offensively(Baze especially) and are all monster defenders.

This team seems to be a +5ish team to me.

They can win a playoff series. Now ofc OKC wants to rebuild but there is just something...not right about blowing this situation up to me. They are winning and rebuilding just fine at the same time IMO, and doing it playing really fun basketball.
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Re: The CP3 Thread 18-19 Part 1 

Post#378 » by Lost92Bricks » Sun Jan 26, 2020 5:04 pm

ShotCreator wrote:Last 5:


26/5/6 with 2.4 TOV on .673 TS% in just 29.8 MPG.

OKC is SMASHING with him on the court, +24.7 net rating.

127.9 ORTG, 103.2 DRTG.


Without: 107.7 ORTG, 114.9 DRTG

He’s running out a +31.9 net on/off in his last 5.

128 offensive rating with him on the court in the last 5?

There goes Chris putting a ceiling on his team's offense again.
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Re: The CP3 Thread 18-19 Part 1 

Post#379 » by Lost92Bricks » Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:10 am

Read on Twitter


CP3 is an All-Star!

First time since 2016.
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Re: The CP3 Thread 18-19 Part 1 

Post#380 » by ShotCreator » Sat Feb 1, 2020 8:20 am

7 straight games with a +/- of 10 or above.


He has OKC peaking with him on the floor. It was rough in the first 20 or so games but the chemistry is through the roof now.
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