#6 Best Defensive SG of All-Time - Top 10 Defense at each position project

[trex_8063]

We vote the #6 best defensive shooting guard of all time. We decided to end the thread for the #4 24 hours early, since Cooper was leading 11-0 and there wasn't much discussion about that round
EVERYBODY CAN PARTECIPATE.

1. Jason Kidd
2.Walt Frazier
3. Gary Payton
4. Dennis Johnson
5. Jerry West
6. John Stockton
7. Chris Paul
8. Mookie Blaylock
9. Nate McMillan
10. Mo Cheeks

Shooting Guards:

1. Michael Jordan
2. Sidney Moncrief
3. Tony Allen
4. Michael Cooper
5. Alvin Robertson

And this is where it started
Idea

And this is where we listed the candidates. I opened a poll where butler, thabo, andre roberson and dan majerle came out as SGs. Iguodala, Bowen, Stepehn Jackson are SFs

Candidates list



these are the candidates



Bill Sharman (Washington Capitols, 1951/1961, All-Def teams didn’t exist)

Tom Gola (Philadelphia Warriors, San Francisco Warriors, Knicks, 1956/1966 All-Def teams didn’t exist)

Jerry Sloan (Bullets, Bulls, 1966/1976, X6 All-Defensive)

Don Chaney (Celtics, Lakers, St.Louis Spirits, 1969/1980, X5 All-Defensive)

Lionel Hollins (Blazers, 76ers, San Diego Clippers, Pistons, Rockets, 1976/1985, X2 All-Defensive)

Eddie Johnson (Hawks, Cavs, Supersonics, 1978/1987, X2 All-Defensive)

T.R. Dunn (Portland, Denver, Phoenix, 1978/1991, X3 All-Defensive)

Fat Lever (Blazers, Nuggets, Mavs, 1983/1994, X1 All-Defensive)

Joe Dumars (Pistons, 1986/1999, X5 All-Defensive)

Dan Majerle (Suns, Cavs, Heat, 1989/2002, X2 All-Defensive)

John Starks (Warriors, Knicks, Bulls, Jazz, 1989/2002, X1 All-Defensive)

Vernon Maxwell (Spurs, Rockets, 76ers, Magic, Hornets, Kings, SuperSonics, Mavs, 1989/2001)

Mitch Richmond (Warriors, Kings, Wizards, Lakers, 1989/2002)

Jaren Jackson Sr (Nets, Warriors, Clippers, Blazers, 76ers, Rockets, Bullets, Spurs, Magic, 1990/2002)

Nick Anderson (Magic, Kings, Grizzlies, 1990/2002)

Bobby Phills (Cavs, Hornets, 1992/2000, X1 All-Defensive)

Stacey Augmon (Hawks, Pistons, Blazers, Hornets, Magic, 1992/2006)

Latrell Sprewell (Warriors, Knicks, Timberwolves, 1993/2005, X1 All-Defensive)

Doug Christie (Lakers, Knicks, Raptors, Kings, Magic, Mavs, Clippers, 1993/2007, X4 All-Defensive)

Aaron Mckie (Blazers, Pistons, 76ers, Lakers, 1995/2007)

Eddie Jones (Lakers, Hornets, Heat, Grizzlies, Mavs, 1995/2008, X3 All-Defensive)

Kobe Bryant (Lakers, 1997/2016, X12 All-Defensive)

Raja Bell (76ers, Mavs, Jazz, Suns, Hornets, Warrios, 2001-2012, X2 All-Defensive)

Manu Ginobili (Spurs, 2003/2018)

Wade (Heat, Bulls, Cavs, 2004/2018, X3 All-Defensive)

Thabo Sefolosha (Bulls, OKC, Atlanta, Utah, 2007/2018, X1 All-Defensive)

Danny Green (Cavs, Spurs, 2010/2018, X1 All-Defensive)

Avery Bradley (Celtics, Pistons, Clippers, 2011/2018, X2 All-Defensive)

Jimmy Butler (Bulls, Timberwolves, 2012/2018, X4 All-Defensive)

Klay Thompson (Warriors, 2012/2018, X1 All-Defensive)

Victor Oladipo (Orlando, Okc, Indiana, 2014/2018, X1 All-Defensive)

Marcus smart (Boston Celtics, 2015/2018)

Andre Roberson (OKC, 2015/2018, X1 All-Defensive)

Spoiler:

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[OdomFan]

Dumars is most definitely top 5.

[HeartBreakKid]

I'm thinking Sloan or Christie here

[Samurai]

Repeating my vote and reasons for Jerry Sloan. For whatever reason, he is more remembered by fans as a coach than as a player, which I think is a serious disservice to him. He was a 4-time All Defensive first team member and a 2-time second team member, but this vote is more based on the eye test than accolades or stats. Probably the roughest and toughest man defender on this list of candidates, including those already named. He was such a rugged defender that opposing players nicknamed him "the Butcher". One of the best ever at being willing to sacrifice his body to take the charge for an offensive foul; he was so good at it that even the ever-cool Walt Frazier would get so frustrated by Sloan that Clyde once admitted that he focused too much on trying to beat and damage Sloan taking those charges that it would take him out of the flow of the game. And Billy Cunningham and Rick Barry, both known for being more emotional than Clyde, admitted that Sloan's constant grabbing, slapping and knack for drawing offensive fouls would get under their skin to the point that it did distract them at times.

Some have criticized Sloan for not being as quick as other SG's on defense. While Sloan would admit that he wasn't the fastest player in the league, he made up for his lack of sheer foot speed by out-hustling everyone else; Sloan would lead the league in floor burns as he was constantly diving for loose balls.

[trex_8063]

Some food for thought on Eddie Jones (particularly if you're basing your votes primarily off of accolades/honors):

a) We have 12 seasons of RAPM data for EJ's career......he had a positive DRAPM every single one of them [using PI RAPM where available]. His worst DRAPM from '97-'08 was +0.6. And fwiw, he was 21st in the league [among those whose seasons were NOT split between two teams] in rs APM in '96 (so, likely a nice defensive split in there, too). In other words: a positive defender basically his entire career.

b) His best DRAPM was a fantastic +3.21 (in '00). To put that into perspective, here are the PI DRAPM's of the last four DPOY's:
'15 Kawhi: +3.59
'16 Kawhi: +3.79
'17 Draymond: +4.04
'18 Gobert (rs only, NPI): +3.08

c) He had SIX seasons with a DRAPM of +1.5 or better.

d) Kobe Bryant (with his NINE All-D 1st teams) does not have a single season with a DRAPM as good as +1.5. I note that not to stick it to Kobe, but rather to call into question the reliability or accuracy of honors/accolades.

e) EJ has these impressive impact metrics with a career total of nearly 33k minutes over 14 seasons (significantly more than several of the other principle candidates, as well as four of the top five).


I know not everyone is terribly comfortable with impact metrics, though. So I'll also note that he had career per 100 possession averages of 2.6 steals and 0.9 blocks (avg 2.7 and 1.0, if we exclude his final two post-prime seasons). Just for comparison, DWade's career marks are 2.4 and 1.3. EJ also has a career +1.0 DBPM and a 103 DRtg (approx -2.3 rDRTG).
His career DWS are ahead of several of the PG's on our list (Chris Paul, Maurice Cheeks, Dennis Johnson, Mookie Blaylock), as well as noteworthies such as Metta World Peace, Shane Battier, Andrei Kirilenko, and Bruce Bowen.

I'm also going to quote Bounce_9 from the last thread, who'd compiled some defensive data that's based upon stats that are at least partially box-derived:

I've done a quick calculation for this run-off. I've used the defensive component of the three most important statistical plus/minus I know (PIPM, BPM, Estimated Impact). This approach allows to compare them in a fair way, which is impossible using purest plus/minus derivates like RAPM, because they are not computable for Robertson.
I blended these three stats with a weighted average. I found the coefficients in a retrodiction test some time ago and they are about equal to each other for the defensive side (not for offense though) so it's basically a arithmetic average. Then I multiplied the result by the total possessions to make the final result cumulative of all the regular seasons values.
Eddie Jones:
1995 - 80.7, 1996 - 103.1, 1997 - 150.5, 1998 - 115.7, 1999 - 104.8, 2000 - 155, 2001 - 114.9, 2002 - 177.4, 2003 - 79.4, 2004 - 78.4, 2005 - 141.6, 2006 - 125.0, 2007 - 53.4, 2008 - 40.0 - FINAL SCORE: 1520.1
Alvin Robertson:
1985 - 73.5, 1986 - 254.5, 1987 - 178.2, 1988 - 167.3, 1989 - 148.4, 1990 - 178.9, 1991 - 193.3, 1992 - 132.2, 1993 - 116.4, 1996 - 103.8 - FINAL SCORE - 1546.6

So, despite this being a cumulative calculation, Robertson comes up slightly ahead of Jones. He also has 4 seasons with better value than Jones' best. I obviously know that boxscore derivated numbers aren't enough to make a final judgement, primarily because they rely too much on steals and blocks (in which Alvin easily trumps Eddie). Fwiw, I've read (though I don't remember where) that a steal is worth about 1.4 points. So averaging 4.8 steals x100poss like Robertson did in his DPOY season provides your team about 7 points per game. As for gambling issues, they made me question if he was good enough to be #5, but ultimately it's a problem which can dammed with a good big men, while having a disruptive force on the perimeter is something that every coach would be glad to have. Consider this post my argument for Robertson, since I have already voted for him.

^^^Here too EJ comes out pretty favorably: only 1.7% behind the guy who just took 5th.

In taking a closer look at EJ during the runoff, I've actually convinced myself to favor him over Jerry Sloan. Switching vote to Eddie Jones.


btw Bounce_9, is there any chance you'd be willing to compile and present this same data for several of the other candidates [as well as #1-4 already voted in]? I think it would be relevant to the discussion. I'd like to see these same figures for Jordan, Moncrief, Cooper, Allen, as well as Dumars, Doug Christie, Stacey Augmon, Kobe, Wade, maybe Danny Green and Andre Roberson, too.

[cecilthesheep]

Voting for Jerry Sloan. Reputation and eye test are almost universally positive; he is tougher and more physical than just about anyone I've seen, in the film that's available. Advanced impact stats also love him - PIPM and WOWYR go nuts over him despite mediocre offensive impact and despite PIPM only grabbing his final 3 years. His steal totals from the three years available are also very respectable, despite him being past 30 at the time. Had DPOY existed in his day, I think he could have grabbed one.

[Luigi]

Voting for Jerry Sloan. Then Joe Dumars (can I vote early?).

[penbeast0]

Christie wasn't that impressive although a good defender. I vote Don Chaney here, not as disruptive as Sloan but more fundamentally sound. There seems to be good statistical evidence for Eddie Jones, anyone have any for Dumars? I always thought he was a bit overrated defensively (and underrated offensively) when he was playing.

[iggymcfrack]

Some food for thought on Eddie Jones (particularly if you're basing your votes primarily off of accolades/honors):

a) We have 12 seasons of RAPM data for EJ's career......he had a positive DRAPM every single one of them [using PI RAPM where available]. His worst DRAPM from '97-'08 was +0.6. And fwiw, he was 21st in the league [among those whose seasons were NOT split between two teams] in rs APM in '96 (so, likely a nice defensive split in there, too). In other words: a positive defender basically his entire career.

b) His best DRAPM was a fantastic +3.21 (in '00). To put that into perspective, here are the PI DRAPM's of the last four DPOY's:
'15 Kawhi: +3.59
'16 Kawhi: +3.79
'17 Draymond: +4.04
'18 Gobert (rs only, NPI): +3.08

c) He had SIX seasons with a DRAPM of +1.5 or better.

d) Kobe Bryant (with his NINE All-D 1st teams) does not have a single season with a DRAPM as good as +1.5. I note that not to stick it to Kobe, but rather to call into question the reliability or accuracy of honors/accolades.

e) EJ has these impressive impact metrics with a career total of nearly 33k minutes over 14 seasons (significantly more than several of the other principle candidates, as well as four of the top five).


I know not everyone is terribly comfortable with impact metrics, though. So I'll also note that he had career per 100 possession averages of 2.6 steals and 0.9 blocks (avg 2.7 and 1.0, if we exclude his final two post-prime seasons). Just for comparison, DWade's career marks are 2.4 and 1.3. EJ also has a career +1.0 DBPM and a 103 DRtg (approx -2.3 rDRTG).
His career DWS are ahead of several of the PG's on our list (Chris Paul, Maurice Cheeks, Dennis Johnson, Mookie Blaylock), as well as noteworthies such as Metta World Peace, Shane Battier, Andrei Kirilenko, and Bruce Bowen.

I'm also going to quote Bounce_9 from the last thread, who'd compiled some defensive data that's based upon stats that are at least partially box-derived:

I've done a quick calculation for this run-off. I've used the defensive component of the three most important statistical plus/minus I know (PIPM, BPM, Estimated Impact). This approach allows to compare them in a fair way, which is impossible using purest plus/minus derivates like RAPM, because they are not computable for Robertson.
I blended these three stats with a weighted average. I found the coefficients in a retrodiction test some time ago and they are about equal to each other for the defensive side (not for offense though) so it's basically a arithmetic average. Then I multiplied the result by the total possessions to make the final result cumulative of all the regular seasons values.
Eddie Jones:
1995 - 80.7, 1996 - 103.1, 1997 - 150.5, 1998 - 115.7, 1999 - 104.8, 2000 - 155, 2001 - 114.9, 2002 - 177.4, 2003 - 79.4, 2004 - 78.4, 2005 - 141.6, 2006 - 125.0, 2007 - 53.4, 2008 - 40.0 - FINAL SCORE: 1520.1
Alvin Robertson:
1985 - 73.5, 1986 - 254.5, 1987 - 178.2, 1988 - 167.3, 1989 - 148.4, 1990 - 178.9, 1991 - 193.3, 1992 - 132.2, 1993 - 116.4, 1996 - 103.8 - FINAL SCORE - 1546.6

So, despite this being a cumulative calculation, Robertson comes up slightly ahead of Jones. He also has 4 seasons with better value than Jones' best. I obviously know that boxscore derivated numbers aren't enough to make a final judgement, primarily because they rely too much on steals and blocks (in which Alvin easily trumps Eddie). Fwiw, I've read (though I don't remember where) that a steal is worth about 1.4 points. So averaging 4.8 steals x100poss like Robertson did in his DPOY season provides your team about 7 points per game. As for gambling issues, they made me question if he was good enough to be #5, but ultimately it's a problem which can dammed with a good big men, while having a disruptive force on the perimeter is something that every coach would be glad to have. Consider this post my argument for Robertson, since I have already voted for him.

^^^Here too EJ comes out pretty favorably: only 1.7% behind the guy who just took 5th.

In taking a closer look at EJ during the runoff, I've actually convinced myself to favor him over Jerry Sloan. Switching vote to Eddie Jones.


btw Bounce_9, is there any chance you'd be willing to compile and present this same data for several of the other candidates [as well as #1-4 already voted in]? I think it would be relevant to the discussion. I'd like to see these same figures for Jordan, Moncrief, Cooper, Allen, as well as Dumars, Doug Christie, Stacey Augmon, Kobe, Wade, maybe Danny Green and Andre Roberson, too.

Excellent post. I think it’s pretty clear that just looking at reputation can give you a wide range of values from super elite to pretty mediocre. When you have solid evidence of someone being dominant year in and year out on the defensive end, you have to weight that ahead of maybes IMO.

Vote for Eddie Jones

[trex_8063]

I've done a quick calculation for this run-off. I've used the defensive component of the three most important statistical plus/minus I know (PIPM, BPM, Estimated Impact). This approach allows to compare them in a fair way, which is impossible using purest plus/minus derivates like RAPM, because they are not computable for Robertson.
I blended these three stats with a weighted average. I found the coefficients in a retrodiction test some time ago and they are about equal to each other for the defensive side (not for offense though) so it's basically a arithmetic average. Then I multiplied the result by the total possessions to make the final result cumulative of all the regular seasons values.
Eddie Jones:
1995 - 80.7, 1996 - 103.1, 1997 - 150.5, 1998 - 115.7, 1999 - 104.8, 2000 - 155, 2001 - 114.9, 2002 - 177.4, 2003 - 79.4, 2004 - 78.4, 2005 - 141.6, 2006 - 125.0, 2007 - 53.4, 2008 - 40.0 - FINAL SCORE: 1520.1
Alvin Robertson:
1985 - 73.5, 1986 - 254.5, 1987 - 178.2, 1988 - 167.3, 1989 - 148.4, 1990 - 178.9, 1991 - 193.3, 1992 - 132.2, 1993 - 116.4, 1996 - 103.8 - FINAL SCORE - 1546.6

So, despite this being a cumulative calculation, Robertson comes up slightly ahead of Jones. He also has 4 seasons with better value than Jones' best. I obviously know that boxscore derivated numbers aren't enough to make a final judgement, primarily because they rely too much on steals and blocks (in which Alvin easily trumps Eddie). Fwiw, I've read (though I don't remember where) that a steal is worth about 1.4 points. So averaging 4.8 steals x100poss like Robertson did in his DPOY season provides your team about 7 points per game. As for gambling issues, they made me question if he was good enough to be #5, but ultimately it's a problem which can dammed with a good big men, while having a disruptive force on the perimeter is something that every coach would be glad to have. Consider this post my argument for Robertson, since I have already voted for him.

btw Bounce_9, is there any chance you'd be willing to compile and present this same data for several of the other candidates [as well as #1-4 already voted in]? I think it would be relevant to the discussion. I'd like to see these same figures for Jordan, Moncrief, Cooper, Allen, as well as Dumars, Doug Christie, Stacey Augmon, Kobe, Wade, maybe Danny Green and Andre Roberson, too.
EDIT: Jimmy Butler, too, if you're willing.

[cecilthesheep]

Christie wasn't that impressive although a good defender. I vote Don Chaney here, not as disruptive as Sloan but more fundamentally sound. There seems to be good statistical evidence for Eddie Jones, anyone have any for Dumars? I always thought he was a bit overrated defensively (and underrated offensively) when he was playing.

Dumars is interesting in that his eye test and reputation among peers are almost unbeatable, but the statistical footprint isn't really convincing. We don't have many advanced impact stats from the 90s, but PIPM hates him on defense, firmly in the negatives at -1.07 for his career, with his best seasons at -0.3 and multiple seasons as bad as -2.7. And he didn't really get steals or blocks.

In head-to-head matchups he looks better but it's inconsistent; he doesn't make much of a difference trying to limit big, strong players like Drexler and Jordan, but he gives stars who rely more on their outside shots fits - Mitch Richmond and Reggie Miller both struggled against him (all stats from the regular season):

Jordan 1985-1998 overall: 31.8p/6.3r/5.3a/2.7t/57.9 TS%
against Dumars (48 games): 31.1p/6.5r/5.6a/2.7t/56.0 TS%

Drexler 1985-1998 overall: 21.9p/6.5r/6.0a/2.8t/54.9 TS%
against Dumars (21 games): 22.1p/6.5r/6.3a/2.4t/55.2 TS%

Richmond 1988-1999 overall: 22.9p/4.2r/3.8a/2.9t/56.1 TS%
against Dumars (17 games): 18.4p/3.4r/3.4a/2.5t/51.8 TS%

Miller 1987-1999 overall: 19.7p/3.1r/3.1a/1.9t/62.1 TS%
against Dumars (48 games): 16.4p/3.1r/3.0a/1.8t/58.8 TS%

Overall, Dumars reminds me a lot of Avery Bradley. Pesky, relentless man defender who probably felt absolutely exhausting and irritating to match up against, but a lack of elite size seems like it may have somewhat limited how much he really helped and prevented him from being effective against bigger, more physical players.

[Dr Positivity]

Vote Eddie Jones

Seems like he has some of the best statistical evidence backing him and he has the physical tools

[pandrade83]

Some of the top candidates or at least those getting votes:


Sloan - passes the eye test for me to a greater degree than anyone left - on the flipside, Chicago doesn't always produce a robust D rating despite other strong defenders around him like Chet Walker & Van Lier - they're merely good, '70 Bulls go 27-26 with, 12-14 without

Jones - strong DRPM numbers - ranging from 0.5 to the 2.5 range during his prime, teams were consistently strong defensively, the Lakers fell off a cliff immediately after trading him defensively & posted robust box score block/steals figures.

Dumars - hard no - didn't help with rebounding at all, I'm wiling to believe that the defensive fall in his metrics was due to taking a larger offensive burden, but then it makes me question his overall impact.

Penbeast loves Chaney based on the eye test - I'm not familiar enough with his game, but the metrics we have aren't screaming high impact (which doesn't mean that he didn't).

My vote is Eddie Jones because I'm the most confident in his impact - I'll probably support Robertson once he's in.

[cecilthesheep]

Jones - strong DRPM numbers - ranging from 0.5 to the 2.5 range during his prime

Maybe a dumb question, but where do you get DRPM going back that far?

[pandrade83]

I’ve been using the figures at shutupandjam

[trex_8063]

Jones - strong DRPM numbers - ranging from 0.5 to the 2.5 range during his prime

Maybe a dumb question, but where do you get DRPM going back that far?

fwiw, in the RAPM info I cited, I used JE's RAPM google sheets for '01 thru '08, and ascreamingcomesacrossthecourt's figures for '97-'00 (EJ ranged from +0.6 to +3.21 from those sites).

[trex_8063]

Christie wasn't that impressive although a good defender. I vote Don Chaney here, not as disruptive as Sloan but more fundamentally sound. There seems to be good statistical evidence for Eddie Jones, anyone have any for Dumars? I always thought he was a bit overrated defensively (and underrated offensively) when he was playing.

Dumars is interesting in that his eye test and reputation among peers are almost unbeatable, but the statistical footprint isn't really convincing. We don't have many advanced impact stats from the 90s, but PIPM hates him on defense, firmly in the negatives at -1.07 for his career, with his best seasons at -0.3 and multiple seasons as bad as -2.7. And he didn't really get steals or blocks.

In head-to-head matchups he looks better but it's inconsistent; he doesn't make much of a difference trying to limit big, strong players like Drexler and Jordan, but he gives stars who rely more on their outside shots fits - Mitch Richmond and Reggie Miller both struggled against him (all stats from the regular season):

Jordan 1985-1998 overall: 31.8p/6.3r/5.3a/2.7t/57.9 TS%
against Dumars (48 games): 31.1p/6.5r/5.6a/2.7t/56.0 TS%

Drexler 1985-1998 overall: 21.9p/6.5r/6.0a/2.8t/54.9 TS%
against Dumars (21 games): 22.1p/6.5r/6.3a/2.4t/55.2 TS%

Richmond 1988-1999 overall: 22.9p/4.2r/3.8a/2.9t/56.1 TS%
against Dumars (17 games): 18.4p/3.4r/3.4a/2.5t/51.8 TS%

Miller 1987-1999 overall: 19.7p/3.1r/3.1a/1.9t/62.1 TS%
against Dumars (48 games): 16.4p/3.1r/3.0a/1.8t/58.8 TS%

Overall, Dumars reminds me a lot of Avery Bradley. Pesky, relentless man defender who probably felt absolutely exhausting and irritating to match up against, but a lack of elite size seems like it may have somewhat limited how much he really helped and prevented him from being effective against bigger, more physical players.

I'm in general agreement with the above statements (from both of you) regarding Dumars. I tend to think he's historically overrated defensively, and perhaps marginally underrated offensively.
Conventional [box-based] defensive metrics are not going to like him because he did not get many steals or blocks at all, and [from a volume standpoint] is just about the single worst defensive rebounding SG of all-time.
His defensive value [presumably] comes from being a pesky and energetic man defender, which is consistent with eye-test. And prior to Dennis Rodman coming into his prime, he was generally the guy being tasked with defending the most dangerous perimeter option on the other team (with some versatility therein: you might see him guarding Jeff Hornacek one game, and Magic Johnson the next--->there's like 5" inches difference there).

I'm not overly surprised of the effect seen on "shooters": he never loses track of his man and is relentless muscling thru screens (strong lower body, too), and always gave good effort contesting shots (even if rarely coming up with blocks). But a just 6'3", I could also see where he'd struggle to contain [to the same degree, anyway] bigger/taller guys who slash or utilize the post more.

Avery Bradley is always the modern-day comparison who comes to mind for me too (defensively at least; Dumars was a clearly better scorer and play-maker than Bradley). And I assume Dumars's defensive impact was thus probably similar to Bradley's: usually good (though never great), with occasional years of mediocre/neutral or even slight negative intermingled.

I think his reputation is aided copiously by the multiple All-Defensive Honors, which for better or worse I suspect were often awarded purely on the basis of being a starting guard---who would sometimes get the difficult defensive assignment---for a good (occasionally elite) team defense......even though the defense was largely made good ["anchored", if you will] by guys like Dennis Rodman and Bill Laimbeer.

The other thing that I think has aided his reputation with my generation is the statement in the Michael Jordan's Playground video where MJ states that no one plays him harder than Joe Dumars. Retrospectively, I see this could be a purely scripted statement intended to bring notoriety to the Bulls/Pistons rivalry that was brewing at the time. And even if the statement did come directly from Jordan, his perception of this could certainly be skewed by the hard time given him by the Pistons in general ("The Jordan Rules" and all).
But I'm sure many children of the 80's/90's (such as myself) remember that movie and that statement, and it likely has colored our opinions of Joe Dumars ever since.

[cecilthesheep]

I’ve been using the figures at shutupandjam

oh, okay, so DRAPM then? I know DRPM as a different and imo a much worse stat.

[pandrade83]

I’ve been using the figures at shutupandjam

oh, okay, so DRAPM then? I know DRPM as a different and imo a much worse stat.

Correct!

[Gibson22]

Okay I'm back. I'm voting jerry sloan, will elaborate later