Wilt Chamberlain vs Muhammad Ali boxing match

[AussieBuck]

It'd be about the same as Lennox Lewis attempting to guard Steph Curry one on one. Nobody who thinks this is a chance has sparred with anyone good.

[bledredwine]

It'd be about the same as Lennox Lewis attempting to guard Steph Curry one on one. Nobody who thinks this is a chance has sparred with anyone good.

That last sentence is spot on.

[frica]

It is interesting to me that today the vast majority of posters feel that Wilt wouldn't have a chance, but they don't point out that a fair number of folks felt that Wilt had a somewhat decent chance of winning back when the fight was discussed. I am not saying Wilt would win, just interesting that at that time more people felt Wilt had a decent shot and today most do not. And none of the ones saying he had no shot now are addressing the difference in opinions between "at the time" and now.

I point this out since both Ali and Wilt are no longer with us so it isn't a matter of the typical "modern player always beats the older player" debate we often get today. So I am curious as to the difference in opinions. Maybe today we have a deeper appreciation of the skill and science of boxing compared to then? Or is it something else?

People also gave McGregor a fair amount of chance at beating Floyd.

They don't know **** about boxing, that is.
If you think anyone can just train boxing for a few months and beat not just any boxer but the great Muhammad Ali you're an absolute and complete imbicile.

[Samurai]

It is interesting to me that today the vast majority of posters feel that Wilt wouldn't have a chance, but they don't point out that a fair number of folks felt that Wilt had a somewhat decent chance of winning back when the fight was discussed. I am not saying Wilt would win, just interesting that at that time more people felt Wilt had a decent shot and today most do not. And none of the ones saying he had no shot now are addressing the difference in opinions between "at the time" and now.

I point this out since both Ali and Wilt are no longer with us so it isn't a matter of the typical "modern player always beats the older player" debate we often get today. So I am curious as to the difference in opinions. Maybe today we have a deeper appreciation of the skill and science of boxing compared to then? Or is it something else?

People also gave McGregor a fair amount of chance at beating Floyd.

They don't know **** about boxing, that is.
If you think anyone can just train boxing for a few months and beat not just any boxer but the great Muhammad Ali you're an absolute and complete imbicile.

There is a vast difference between McGregor/Floyd and Ali/Wilt. McGregor/Floyd was just fought in 2017; the Ali/Wilt fight was discussed 47 years ago. My point, if you read my post, was the difference in opinions on who would win 47 years ago compared to the comments posted currently. Are you really comparing a difference in opinions from a fight just over a year ago is comparable to the differences in opinions to Ali/Wilt? How could you even compare them since McGregor and Floyd actually fought so how do you compare the difference in opinions pre-fight spanning a long period of time? Ali and Wilt never actually fought. I'm not seeing the relevance.

[NO-KG-AI]

Ali would tool Wilt so bad that it wouldn't be a contest, unless he felt like letting him land stuff. Come on

[HeartBreakKid]

When we say "people" gave McGregor a chance against Mayweather and "people" gave Chamberlain a chance against Ali - who are we exactly talking about in regards to "people"?

A minority of casual audiences might have thought those things. But the majority of people certainly thought McGregor would lose to Floyd (and easily), and I'd reckon given just based on how much more revered and famous Ali was in the day, he'd probably be favored over Chamberlain even from the eyes of the uneducated.

If we're talking people who follow boxing or boxing experts or those in the boxing community - I have serious, serious, doubts that anyone beyond the promoters who tried to book this and the outlets they own had Chamberlain as a favorite.

[Samurai]

When we say "people" gave McGregor a chance against Mayweather and "people" gave Chamberlain a chance against Ali - who are we exactly talking about in regards to "people"?

A minority of casual audiences might have thought those things. But the majority of people certainly thought McGregor would lose to Floyd (and easily), and I'd reckon given just based on how much more revered and famous Ali was in the day, he'd probably be favored over Chamberlain even from the eyes of the uneducated.

If we're talking people who follow boxing or boxing experts or those in the boxing community - I have serious, serious, doubts that anyone beyond the promoters who tried to book this and the outlets they own had Chamberlain as a favorite.

In regards to the proposed Ali/Wilt fight, the "people" I am referring to were the media - sports writers and sportscasters. There was no RealGM back then, so you likely recall that all we had was what the media wrote about it or discussed on TV. And of course, the members of the media ranged widely in terms of how much "expertise" they had in the sports they covered. At least, that is what my memory of the topic is from what I recall the media comments were about it back then; if you have a different recollection, please let us know how you remember it since I've never claimed my memory is infallible! My point is just that there seemed to be noticeably more media people feeling Wilt had a decent shot at a win back then compared to the RealGM posters discussing it now in this thread.

[taikibansei]

In regards to the proposed Ali/Wilt fight, the "people" I am referring to were the media - sports writers and sportscasters. There was no RealGM back then, so you likely recall that all we had was what the media wrote about it or discussed on TV. And of course, the members of the media ranged widely in terms of how much "expertise" they had in the sports they covered. At least, that is what my memory of the topic is from what I recall the media comments were about it back then; if you have a different recollection, please let us know how you remember it since I've never claimed my memory is infallible! My point is just that there seemed to be noticeably more media people feeling Wilt had a decent shot at a win back then compared to the RealGM posters discussing it now in this thread.

I was around back then. Nobody I knew, talked to or read felt that Wilt had a real chance. Everyone understood that Ali was doing it for the publicity and the money. (He'd been banned from boxing from March 1967 to October 1970 over his stance on the Vietnam War, so basically had little to no income during that time.) Ali would later go on to fight a professional wrestler (Gorilla Monsoon) and sumo wrestler (Inoki) as well, for heck's sake.

As I shared in two video clips on page two of this thread, trained boxers couldn't hit Ali. He was incredibly quick for a heavyweight. While Wilt was also quick for someone his size, he was still 7'1" and 300 pounds. Can you imagine somebody that height and weight trying to take the fight to Ali? And if you've ever boxed before, you know how heavy your hands start to feel after a few rounds if you haven't been training hard, how they can start to drop on you. Well, imagine you're a big, strong guy fighting somebody smaller but quicker and who hits harder. (Punching strength has little to do with physical strength and lots to do with timing, practice and torque.) Imagine that smaller guy is coming in at every opportunity to work your body, and that the only thing you have to keep him off is your jab, but if you slow down with it even a bit...he's on you again, pounding that body, punching your solar plexus, kidneys, and liver. Yeah, Wilt might keep him off for a round or so, but it was planned to be a 15-round fight, and I'm betting those gloves would have been feeling very heavy by about round 3 or so, and that by about round 7, Wilt would be knocked out.

But don't just take my opinion. From a contemporary:

At the same time, Arum had seen how poorly a world-class athlete from another sport would have performed against Ali. Arum was in London with Ali in the mid-1960s when football superstar Jim Brown was there filming a movie. Brown had yet to announce his retirement from the NFL, but went up to Arum, a close friend, and said he wanted to fight Ali.

Arum relayed the message to Ali who said to bring Brown to London's Hyde Park. When they arrived, Ali told Brown to try to hit and not to worry about his, Ali's safety. "Jimmy was obviously a big, strong guy and he would probably have beaten the (crap) out of everyone in the NFL at the time," Arum said. "Ali told him to hit him and Jimmy started swinging. He was throwing these big, hard punches, but he wasn't coming close to hitting him.

"Then, Ali said he would start to hit back when Jimmy was trying to hit him. And Ali hit him in the face with an open palm and slapped him about 20 times before Jimmy could get out of the way. Jimmy was one of the great athletes ever, but boxing is a different sport and that's why I don't think Chamberlain wouldn't have been much of a threat."

And from the same article:

The sides came to a verbal agreement that Chamberlain and Ali would fight a 15-round bout on July 26, 1971, at the Houston Astrodome. The savvy Arum, though, knew that without a signed contract, there was no guarantee the fight would go through. So Arum pulled Ali aside before the news conference and told him to cool it.

"You know how Ali was and what a great promoter he was," Arum said. "I was assured by Wilt's lawyer he would sign, but I just had a funny feeling. I grabbed Ali before Wilt got there and "told him I thought the guy was getting shaky and might pull out of the fight and I told him to shut up until (Chamberlain) actually signed. And he went, `Yeah, yeah, yeah.'"

But as soon as Chamberlain and his lawyer entered the office at the Astrodome where Ali and Arum were waiting, things changed. The showman in Ali took over even though there were no media there to witness it. As Chamberlain ducked his head through the doorway, Ali shouted `Timber! The tree will fall in four!!"

Chamberlain immediately asked Arum if he could use a private phone for a few minutes before proceeding. Arum set him up in Astrodome owner Judge Roy Hoffheinz' office and left him alone. Chamberlain called Jack Kent Cooke and quickly agreed to terms with the Lakers.

http://lexnihilnovi.blogspot.com/2012/08/ali-v-wilt-fight-that-almost-happened_15.html

[HeartBreakKid]

In regards to the proposed Ali/Wilt fight, the "people" I am referring to were the media - sports writers and sportscasters. There was no RealGM back then, so you likely recall that all we had was what the media wrote about it or discussed on TV. And of course, the members of the media ranged widely in terms of how much "expertise" they had in the sports they covered. At least, that is what my memory of the topic is from what I recall the media comments were about it back then; if you have a different recollection, please let us know how you remember it since I've never claimed my memory is infallible! My point is just that there seemed to be noticeably more media people feeling Wilt had a decent shot at a win back then compared to the RealGM posters discussing it now in this thread.

I was around back then. Nobody I knew, talked to or read felt that Wilt had a real chance. Everyone understood that Ali was doing it for the publicity and the money. (He'd been banned from boxing from March 1967 to October 1970 over his stance on the Vietnam War, so basically had little to no income during that time.) Ali would later go on to fight a professional wrestler (Gorilla Monsoon) and sumo wrestler (Inoki) as well, for heck's sake.

As I shared in two video clips on page two of this thread, trained boxers couldn't hit Ali. He was incredibly quick for a heavyweight. While Wilt was also quick for someone his size, he was still 7'1" and 300 pounds. Can you imagine somebody that height and weight trying to take the fight to Ali? And if you've ever boxed before, you know how heavy your hands start to feel after a few rounds if you haven't been training hard, how they can start to drop on you. Well, imagine you're a big, strong guy fighting somebody smaller but quicker and who hits harder. (Punching strength has little to do with physical strength and lots to do with timing, practice and torque.) Imagine that smaller guy is coming in at every opportunity to work your body, and that the only thing you have to keep him off is your jab, but if you slow down with it even a bit...he's on you again, pounding that body, punching your solar plexus, kidneys, and liver. Yeah, Wilt might keep him off for a round or so, but it was planned to be a 15-round fight, and I'm betting those gloves would have been feeling very heavy by about round 3 or so, and that by about round 7, Wilt would be knocked out.

But don't just take my opinion. From a contemporary:

At the same time, Arum had seen how poorly a world-class athlete from another sport would have performed against Ali. Arum was in London with Ali in the mid-1960s when football superstar Jim Brown was there filming a movie. Brown had yet to announce his retirement from the NFL, but went up to Arum, a close friend, and said he wanted to fight Ali.

Arum relayed the message to Ali who said to bring Brown to London's Hyde Park. When they arrived, Ali told Brown to try to hit and not to worry about his, Ali's safety. "Jimmy was obviously a big, strong guy and he would probably have beaten the (crap) out of everyone in the NFL at the time," Arum said. "Ali told him to hit him and Jimmy started swinging. He was throwing these big, hard punches, but he wasn't coming close to hitting him.

"Then, Ali said he would start to hit back when Jimmy was trying to hit him. And Ali hit him in the face with an open palm and slapped him about 20 times before Jimmy could get out of the way. Jimmy was one of the great athletes ever, but boxing is a different sport and that's why I don't think Chamberlain wouldn't have been much of a threat."

And from the same article:

The sides came to a verbal agreement that Chamberlain and Ali would fight a 15-round bout on July 26, 1971, at the Houston Astrodome. The savvy Arum, though, knew that without a signed contract, there was no guarantee the fight would go through. So Arum pulled Ali aside before the news conference and told him to cool it.

"You know how Ali was and what a great promoter he was," Arum said. "I was assured by Wilt's lawyer he would sign, but I just had a funny feeling. I grabbed Ali before Wilt got there and "told him I thought the guy was getting shaky and might pull out of the fight and I told him to shut up until (Chamberlain) actually signed. And he went, `Yeah, yeah, yeah.'"

But as soon as Chamberlain and his lawyer entered the office at the Astrodome where Ali and Arum were waiting, things changed. The showman in Ali took over even though there were no media there to witness it. As Chamberlain ducked his head through the doorway, Ali shouted `Timber! The tree will fall in four!!"

Chamberlain immediately asked Arum if he could use a private phone for a few minutes before proceeding. Arum set him up in Astrodome owner Judge Roy Hoffheinz' office and left him alone. Chamberlain called Jack Kent Cooke and quickly agreed to terms with the Lakers.

http://lexnihilnovi.blogspot.com/2012/08/ali-v-wilt-fight-that-almost-happened_15.html

Two minor things.

Inoki was a pro wrestler not a sumo wrestler (and a real catch wrestler, aka grappler

The colored video you posted of Ali was not a real fight

[taikibansei]

Two minor things.

Inoki was a pro wrestler not a sumo wrestler (and a real catch wrestler, aka grappler

The colored video you posted of Ali was not a real fight

You apparently are right on both accounts! My bad. (Interestingly enough, I watched the Inoki "fight" way back when--a pretty embarrassing spectacle for both parties.)

[Zeitgeister]

I'm not saying Wilt would beat Ali,but size and strength do matter.Look at a guy like Bob Sapp,he was a failed NFL player,and then he started his kicboxing career in his late 20's.Only thing he relied on was his raw strength,he never developed much of a skill,and he would be gassed after first minute.Howewer,he made it to K-1 final tournament in 2002,and he even beat Ernesto Hoost,arguably the greatest of all time,he beat him twice.He did it just on raw strength.

Wilt had better physical attributes than Sapp,he was taller,but he was more coordinated,and he had more condition.With training,he would have become a problem.I doubt he could have beaten Ali,but he could have been better than many heavyweight pro's.

Watch on YouTube

The talent and depth in boxing is way higher than kickboxing or Mma. Mark Hunt is a great in K1 kickboxing and he was known for his durability and power but he wasnt anything notable in boxing

Sefo is an alltimer in kickboxing too

Watch on YouTube

there are multiple examples of fighters excelling in kickboxing purely due to size like Semmy Schilt but boxing requires far more than that

You actually think that a sport that limits you strictly to stand up fighting with your hands has more depth than MMA? Ground fighting alone probably has as much or more depth than boxing.

[CodeBreaker]

I see a lot of people did not learn from the beating Floyd gave McGregor.

McGregor is an MMA fighter, champion in his division, and Floyd made him look like he can't fight for his life in a boxing ring.
How do you think Wilt can do against the GOAT Ali when the man he does not even fight...

Lots of casual fans here who don't know sht about the sweet science of boxing.

[Greek]

Forget Ali, the real question is if he could beat Chuck Norris

Sent from my ANE-LX1 using RealGM mobile app

[OdomFan]

Ali would have been waay to fast and experienced for even a giant like Wilt to handle.

[D.Brasco]

It'd be about the same as Lennox Lewis attempting to guard Steph Curry one on one. Nobody who thinks this is a chance has sparred with anyone good.

It's not so clear cut an analogy.

In a physical confrontation the larger man will always have an edge. Do I think he would beat Ali? no, but he could have put a hurt on him with a lucky blow.

Lewis would have no such luck at all in your example.

[countryboy667]

My take? Ali would have won. OTOH, if Wilt had had a year to actually train as a boxer, it would have been a very good fight and with his reach and strength Wilt would have had a puncher's chance to actually win.

Why? I just snort in derision when I see people here saying Wilt couldn't match the punching power of a Foreman, for instance. They are just totally clueless about how strong Wilt was. And when I see someone say Ali would wear him out in a couple of rounds, I just have to laugh out loud.

In wilt, you are talking about one of the strongest athletes in any sport in memory--and one with great stamina and underrated quickness.

To make the record straight, I'm a Vietnam vet who considers Ali to have been a stinking low-life draft dodger--a self styled "pacifist" (LOL) who made a fortune by beating other men senseless. But I can honestly say that has NO bearing on my analysis above.

[HeartBreakKid]

My take? Ali would have won. OTOH, if Wilt had had a year to actually train as a boxer, it would have been a very good fight and with his reach and strength Wilt would have had a puncher's chance to actually win.

Why? I just snort in derision when I see people here saying Wilt couldn't match the punching power of a Foreman, for instance. They are just totally clueless about how strong Wilt was. And when I see someone say Ali would wear him out in a couple of rounds, I just have to laugh out loud.

In wilt, you are talking about one of the strongest athletes in any sport in memory--and one with great stamina and underrated quickness.

To make the record straight, I'm a Vietnam vet who considers Ali to have been a stinking low-life draft dodger--a self styled "pacifist" (LOL) who made a fortune by beating other men senseless. But I can honestly say that has NO bearing on my analysis above.

What do you mean by you snort at that? George Foreman is one of the hardest punchers in history. Wilt Chamberlain being strong doesn't mean that he is a strong puncher, the two are not that connected.


Not sure what purpose the last paragraph serves other than just to insult Ali. If you hadn't said anything then why would anyone assume you don't like Ali - it's not anyone here knows your personal bias'.

[shakes0]

I think Wilt loses this by split decision, but I'm 100% sure that Wilt could turn around the next morning and play hockey better than Bobby Orr.

[LakerLegend]

Lookup the story of Ali and Jim Brown shadowboxing if you think Wilt would stand a chance.

[Heej]

IQ is the number one predictor of success in sports. For Ali to be considered the GOAT he very clearly had to ha D a high IQ. Anyone with a high IQ in the competitive activity of their choice is always able to see their game a step or two ahead of the average person.

I can't imagine Wilt even being able to touch Ali because Ali was so attuned to boxing and had such a great natural aptitude for it that he'd have been able to see minute shifts in Wilt's plant legs and hips and whatnot and always be able to predict where a blow was coming from and reading the optimal angle to avoid it. For those of you who watch One Piece it would literally be like Ali has future sight compared to Wilt. There's just no chance Wilt would be able to land a blow. The difference in boxing IQ is too stark. Everyone knows this