#8 Greatest Defensive C of All-Time - Top 10 Defense at each position project

[trex_8063]

Point Guards:

1. Jason Kidd
2. Walt Frazier
3. Gary Payton
4. Dennis Johnson
5. Jerry West
6. John Stockton
7. Chris Paul
8. Mookie Blaylock
9. Nate McMillan
10. Mo Cheeks

Shooting Guards:

1. Michael Jordan
2. Sidney Moncrief
3. Tony Allen
4. Michael Cooper
5. Alvin Robertson
6. Eddie Jones
7. Jerry Sloan
8. Joe Dumars
9. Danny Green
10. Don Chaney


Small Forwards:

1. Scottie Pippen
2. Ron Artest
3. Lebron James
4. Andre Iguodala
5. Shane Battier
6. John Havlicek
7. Bruce Bowen
8. Shawn Marion
9. Luol Deng
10. Kawhi Leonard


Power Forwards:

1. Tim Duncan
2. Kevin Garnett
3. Bobby Jones
4. Dennis Rodman
5. Elvin Hayes
6. Dave DeBusschere
7. Draymond Green
8. Kevin McHale
9. Rasheed Wallace
10. Horace Grant


Centers:

1. Bill Russell
2. Hakeem Olajuwon
3. David Robinson
4. Dikembe Mutombo
5. Wilt Chamberlain
6. Nate Thurmond
7. Ben Wallace

And this is where it started
Idea


THE CANDIDATES
Patrick Ewing
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Alonzo Mourning
Dwight Howard
Bill Walton
Rudy Gobert
George Mikan
Artis Gilmore
Willis Reed
Wes Unseld
Jack Sikma
Andrew Bogut
Tree Rollins
Theo Ratliff
Mark Eaton
Manute Bol
Shawn Bradley
Marc Gasol
Tyson Chandler
Marcus Camby
Joakim Noah
DeAndre Jordan
Roy Hibbert
Dave Cowens
Robert Parish
Vlade Divac
George Johnson
Caldwell Jones
Clifford Ray
Bill Laimbeer
Yao Ming
Nene Hilario
Al Horford
[/b]



Hi guys

Spoiler:

a

a

a

a

a

a

a

a

a

a

a

a

a

.

.

a

a

a

I'

a

.

a

a

a

a

a

a

a

a

a

a

a

)

)

)

)

)

)

)

)

)

)

)

)

)

)

[

)

)

)

)

)

)

)

/

/

[/quote]

[Samurai]

Repeating my vote for Kareem Abdul Jabbar. This will likely come down to Kareem and Ewing. Ewing was named to 3 All Defense second teams in his career. I don't think accolades should be the primary factor, but it is odd that he was never named to a first team and 3 second teams in a 15-year career seems light for a top ten nominee. Kareem has 11 All Defensive Team awards (5 firsts and 6 seconds).

However, it is the eye test more than accolades that is driving my vote. As I've posted repeatedly before, no center that I have seen has impacted another team's offensive strategy to the degree that Milwaukee Kareem did. (Note: I am not including Russell since I only saw him in his last 2 years). Kareem took away the other team's penetration to such a degree that the Bucks were able to clearly overplay their man to one side, just daring them to drive to the rim. And when they did, Kareem discouraged the drivers to such an extent that by the second half they resorted to outside jump shots. And yes, I have seen Hakeem, Deke, Ewing, Howard and Gilmore throughout their careers (with the exception of ABA Gilmore - ABA games were not televised much at all). In the games I saw, none of them impacted the other team's offensive philosophy more than Kareem did during his Milwaukee days. Oscar Robertson described the impact of having such a dominant rim protector and how it shaped the Bucks' defensive strategy in the book "Alcindor and the Big O" by John Devaney.

And while I have some doubts that Kareem could have had that same level of impact in another era, I have been pretty consistent in my belief that functioning time machines do NOT exist and thus I have kept my voting preferences to how a player actually performed in their own era, against their peers who were all playing under the same conditions. I have tried to keep science fiction out of my voting preferences. Right or wrong, I am going to stay consistent with that principle here, or at least until I am convinced that time machines exist.

[iggymcfrack]

I’m just gonna vote for Kareem. When I was looking at team effects, I remember thinking his D was as good as Wilt’s or better and we all know he has incredible longevity. With no one really standing out from the advanced stats era, I think it’s fair to give him a vote. Especially since I was never that impressed with Ewing defensively either.

[pandrade83]

It's Ewing time pretty easily for me. Anchored outlier level defenses & none of this other teammates have made it in.

[kendogg]

I'll stick with Kareem this round, though Ewing is a good pick as well. It's a shame we don't have good stats on Kareem's early years because he's another like Ewing and others who were great out the gate.

[penbeast0]

I am voting Ewing at the moment; though willing to be persuaded. The best of the Knick defenses were indeed outliers. I did see Kareem have some extraordinary impacts defensively in the 70s, I remember well the 71 finals where the whole Bullets team seemed out of sync and offensively challenged. They looked intimidated. So, I am fine with a vote for Kareem as well. He is my next choice. But, I didn't seem Kareem change the team mentality of his teams the way Ewing did; those Bucks teams seemed to take their cues from Oscar and Kareem's other teams in the 70s often seemed to underperform. That to me seems to give the edge to Ewing.

[Dr Positivity]

Ewing or Kareem. I feel like Ewing can concentrate on defense more, and Kareem's peak on defense was in a weak era. Vote Ewing

Can't put him over Ewing, but I would consider Mourning over Kareem. Even with the kidney issue Mourning's longevity is actually pretty decent considering he comes in polished. He was great as late career backup as well. I am lower on Dwight's longevity since I haven't felt the impact since he left Orlando, and his first few years wouldn't have had as high impact either. Dwight is non top 10 imo

[ThaRegul8r]

Ewing was named to 3 All Defense second teams in his career. I don't think accolades should be the primary factor, but it is odd that he was never named to a first team and 3 second teams in a 15-year career seems light for a top ten nominee.

Context matters.

Ewing entered the league in '85-86, a year after Hakeem, who's already voted in in this project at #2. At the beginning of his career, Mark Eaton was a fixture on the All-D team (the reigning DPoY when Ewing entered the league), and after his rookie year the All-D team was Hakeem & Eaton, Hakeem & Ewing/Eaton (both tied for All-D 2nd Team), Eaton (DPoY) & Ewing, then David Robinson—who's also already voted in in this project at #3—entered the league in '89-90. In four of the next 5 years, the All-D team would be Hakeem and Robinson in some order (with Ewing getting in behind Robinson in '92), and 5 times overall they were the top two centers. Again, both of whom this board has voted as better defenders than Ewing. Then Mutombo—who also is already voted in in this project at #4, entered the league in '91-92, and was on the All-D team four times in the '90s. In '95, and from '97 to '99, the All-D team was one of either Robinson or Hakeem and Mutombo (Robinson and Hakeem taking the two spots for the last time in '96), until Alonzo Mourning broke it up in '99, making the first team with Mutombo second. Ewing would only play three more years after that.

So Ewing's career was concurrent with three centers already voted as better defenders by this board. The #2 center preceded him by a year, and he only had four years before the #3 center came along (making the All-D half of those four years), after which point the #2 and #3 centers as determined by this board monopolized the All-D teams for half a decade, then the #4 center as voted by this board came along, and it was between those three until the end of the decade. So why would it be odd that he was "only" named to three second teams in his career when the second-, third-, and fourth-best defensive centers of all time according to this board were getting those accolades? (For 8 out of 10 years the 1st & 2nd All-D centers were two of those three, and Ewing made it for one of the two remaining years.)

[WestGOAT]

Kareem

[bledredwine]

WOOHOO!! Wallace finally made it!!

phew, ok now that I've let that out - Sorry. The centers list can be so frustrating because so many of these centers are better defenders than many of the top 5 players on other lists. But considering his defensive achievements, what he did to Shaq, what he did with that Pistons defense, and his completely lack of offensive abilities, I think that he is really deserving of this.


OK,

next order of action.
I've got to vote Patrick Ewing

He was an amazing defender and that Knicks team falls apart without his paint defense. He was right up there with Hakeem and D. Rob. That's just how close this top ten defensive centers list is.

[70sFan]

Ewing from overrated became very underrated, especially defensively. He was very smart and agressive defender whose mobility was good before injuries. Even after his physical prime his instinct and BBIQ contributed greatly on defensive end.

I didn't have time to vote before (I prefer Ewing over Wallace here to be honest) but now I'm voting Patrick Ewing.

Kareem will probably get my next vote.

[KnickFan33]

Ewing

[trex_8063]

Ewing was named to 3 All Defense second teams in his career. I don't think accolades should be the primary factor, but it is odd that he was never named to a first team and 3 second teams in a 15-year career seems light for a top ten nominee.

I read the rest of your post and realize your decision is not based entirely on accolades, but I still wanted to speak to this point (mostly just repeating what I'd said in a previous thread)....

Generally only two centers are awarded All-D honors in any given year (and only ONE will get All-D 1st team):
Ewing's prime overlaps almost exactly with that of Hakeem Olajuwon. It also mostly overlaps with that of David Robinson.
AND it overlaps several years of Dikembe Mutombo's prime, as well as a few of Alonzo Mourning late in Ewing's prime, and 2-3 years of late-prime Mark Eaton during the early portion of Ewing's prime.

Again: generally only two centers will receive All-D honors at all in a given year.
Given the competition he was facing for those honors, I think it's a fairly tall achievement that he managed to be recognized three times.

And while his cumulative DPOY shares appear to lag behind some other candidates, there is again the aforementioned competition he was facing for honors in those bigs (as well as other notable non-bigs, such as Pippen, Jordan, Rodman, etc.....whose primes mostly overlapped with Ewing as well). Additionally, the voters simply get it wrong sometimes. I'd previously noted how the '93 and '94 Knicks were two of the greatest team defenses the league has ever seen (outliers within their own era)......and yet the total DPOY shares received by ANYONE in a Knick uniform in those two seasons COMBINED was just 0.050.

Something isn't right with that^^.

[trex_8063]

I’m going to again post a limited number of comparisons by several aggregates, including various DVOR (defensive value over replacement) splits, as I had in prior threads. EDITS SINCE LAST TIME: Have added Marcus Camby and Theo Ratliff.

NOTES (read please):
*For anyone new to this, DVOR is NOT to be confused with DVORP (derived from bbref’s VORP figures). DVOR utilizes (where ever possible) DRAPM [available for ‘97 and after] and minutes played, with “replacement level” being defined as -0.75.
**For ‘94-’96, we have another plus/minus metric available in the form of rs-only APM. This figure is used for those seasons, along with guidance by BPM to estimate the offense:defense splits on the APM number.
***For seasons prior to ‘94, in previous threads I’d been using shutupandjam’s Estimated Impact (EI) defensive splits. However, anyone following this close will know by now that the domain on that site expired, so it is no longer available. I had recorded the numbers for Bill Russell and Hakeem’s pre-’94 seasons before the site went down, so I have them.

But this will prevent me from including other “old-timers” such as Wilt or Thurmond in these comparisons.

****For the pre-’94 seasons of David Robinson, Dikembe Mutombo, Patrick Ewing, and Alonzo Mourning, I simply used (0.75 * DBPM) as an estimate. I didn’t use the full DBPM value, as I feel that can sometimes overstate things (relative to a typical DRAPM). That might be marginally short-changing them for those years, so bear that in mind.

*****In DVOR per game in best 5 years, it might not be the same five years as in the cumulative avg.

******Where DPOY shares [and All-D pts, for that matter] are concerned, also bear in mind that Robinson, Mutombo, and Hakeem were often in direct competition with each other, probably dragging ALL of their figures down in those categories compared to Ben Wallace (we really didn’t have another great defensive C whose prime overlapped with Ben’s).

*******Used the following year-by-year DRAPM estimates for Wilt Chamberlain's career to speculate on DVOR scores:
2
1
1
0
3
0
2.75
3.25
3.25
0.25
0
0.5
3.25
3.25

********Used the following year-by-year DRAPM estimates (guidance by DBPM) for Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's career to speculate on DVOR scores:
2.5
2.5
2.5
2.5
2.7
1.65
3
2.25
2.7
2.9
2
1.05
1.1
0.2
0.3
1
0.6
0.3
0.1
-0.2

*********All shorter seasons (and associated metrics) have been pro-rated to 82-game schedule; figures do NOT include the '19 season for active players.


All-Defensive Honors “Points” (awarded 1.5 pts for each 1st team, 1.0 pts for each 2nd)
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 13.5
Hakeem Olajuwon - 11.5
David Robinson - 10.0
Ben Wallace - 8.5
Dikembe Mutombo - 7.5
Dwight Howard - 7.0
Marcus Camby - 5.0
Wilt Chamberlain - 3.0 (*only awarded his last 5 seasons)
Patrick Ewing - 3.0
Alonzo Mourning - 3.0
Theo Ratliff - 2.0
Bill Russell - 1.5 (*only awarded his final season)
Shawn Bradley - 0

DPOY Shares
Ben Wallace - 3.747
Dwight Howard - 3.242
Dikembe Mutombo - 2.146
Hakeem Olajuwon - 1.969
Alonzo Mourning - 1.334
David Robinson - 1.331
Marcus Camby - 1.331
Theo Ratliff - 0.225
Patrick Ewing - 0.105
Shawn Bradley - 0
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 0 (*not awarded the first 13 seasons of Kareem's career)
**not awarded during the careers of Russell and Wilt

DWS
Bill Russell - 143.9
Hakeem Olajuwon - 96.6
Wilt Chamberlain - 95.7
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 94.5
Patrick Ewing - 83.4
David Robinson - 82.9
Ben Wallace - 72.3
Dikembe Mutombo - 71.2
Dwight Howard - 70.4
Marcus Camby - 56.8
Alonzo Mourning - 50.5
Theo Ratliff - 32.4
Shawn Bradley - 32.2

DBPM
Ben Wallace: +5.5
Marcus Camby: +4.6
David Robinson: +4.3
Hakeem Olajuwon: +3.8
Dikembe Mutombo: +3.6
Theo Ratliff: +3.4
Shawn Bradley: +3.4
Dwight Howard: +2.8
Patrick Ewing: +2.5
Alonzo Mourning: +2.3
*Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: +2.0 (*not available for his first four seasons)
**not available for Russell or Wilt’s careers

Individual rDRTG
David Robinson: -10.0
Ben Wallace: -9.4
Hakeem Olajuwon: -8.6
Dwight Howard: -7.9
Patrick Ewing: -7.5
Dikembe Mutombo: -6.8
Marcus Camby: -6.4
Alonzo Mourning: -5.7
*Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: -5.2 (*not available his first four seasons)
Theo Ratliff: -4.6
Shawn Bradley: -4.0
**not available for Russell or Wilt’s careers

Cumulative Career DVOR
Bill Russell - 181,196.05
Hakeem Olajuwon - 171,267.8
Dikembe Mutombo - 154.734.3
David Robinson - 151,777.8
*Kareem Abdul-Jabbar -141,937.6 (*his score if using the estimates cited above)
Patrick Ewing - 134,807.4
*Wilt Chamberlain - 123,779.0 (*his score if using the estimates cited above)
Ben Wallace - 108,273.3
Alonzo Mourning - 91,008.1
Dwight Howard - 82,724.5
Shawn Bradley - 70,643.0
Theo Ratliff - 60,937.2
Marcus Camby - 60,812.6

Avg DVOR per Season (full career)
Bill Russell - 13,938.2
David Robinson - 10,841.2
Hakeem Olajuwon - 9,514.9
*Wilt Chamberlain - 8,841.4 (*his score if using the estimates cited above)
Dikembe Mutombo - 8,596.4
Patrick Ewing - 7,929.8
*Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 7,096.9 (*his score if using the estimates cited above)
Ben Wallace - 6,767.1
Alonzo Mourning - 6,107.9
Dwight Howard - 5,908.9
Shawn Bradley - 5,886.9
Theo Ratliff - 3,808.6
Marcus Camby - 3,577.2

Avg DVOR per Season (Best 5 years)
Dikembe Mutombo - 18,417.6
Bill Russell - 16,994.7
Hakeem Olajuwon - 14,663.1
*Wilt Chamberlain - 14,494.95 (*his score if using the estimates cited above)
David Robinson - 13,808.6
Alonzo Mourning - 12,185.9
Patrick Ewing - 12,052.4
*Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 11,913.0 (*his score if using the estimates cited above)
Ben Wallace - 11,727.7
Shawn Bradley - 9,933.7
Dwight Howard - 9,483.5
Theo Ratliff - 7,910.7
Marcus Camby - 7,741.3

Avg DVOR Per Game (Best 5 years)
Dikembe Mutombo - 229.6
Bill Russell - 219.6
Hakeem Olajuwon - 184.2
*Wilt Chamberlain - 176.8 (*his score if using the estimates cited above)
David Robinson - 176.4
Alonzo Mourning - 171.4
Patrick Ewing - 160.9
Ben Wallace - 150.4
*Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 146.7 (*his score if using the estimates cited above)
Shawn Bradley - 141.5
Dwight Howard - 129.8
Marcus Camby - 113.5
Theo Ratliff - 112.1

[Samurai]

Ewing was named to 3 All Defense second teams in his career. I don't think accolades should be the primary factor, but it is odd that he was never named to a first team and 3 second teams in a 15-year career seems light for a top ten nominee.

Context matters.

Ewing entered the league in '85-86, a year after Hakeem, who's already voted in in this project at #2. At the beginning of his career, Mark Eaton was a fixture on the All-D team (the reigning DPoY when Ewing entered the league), and after his rookie year the All-D team was Hakeem & Eaton, Hakeem & Ewing/Eaton (both tied for All-D 2nd Team), Eaton (DPoY) & Ewing, then David Robinson—who's also already voted in in this project at #3—entered the league in '89-90. In four of the next 5 years, the All-D team would be Hakeem and Robinson in some order (with Ewing getting in behind Robinson in '92), and 5 times overall they were the top two centers. Again, both of whom this board has voted as better defenders than Ewing. Then Mutombo—who also is already voted in in this project at #4, entered the league in '91-92, and was on the All-D team four times in the '90s. In '95, and from '97 to '99, the All-D team was one of either Robinson or Hakeem and Mutombo (Robinson and Hakeem taking the two spots for the last time in '96), until Alonzo Mourning broke it up in '99, making the first team with Mutombo second. Ewing would only play three more years after that.

So Ewing's career was concurrent with three centers already voted as better defenders by this board. The #2 center preceded him by a year, and he only had four years before the #3 center came along (making the All-D half of those four years), after which point the #2 and #3 centers as determined by this board monopolized the All-D teams for half a decade, then the #4 center as voted by this board came along, and it was between those three until the end of the decade. So why would it be odd that he was "only" named to three second teams in his career when the second-, third-, and fourth-best defensive centers of all time according to this board were getting those accolades? (For 8 out of 10 years the 1st & 2nd All-D centers were two of those three, and Ewing made it for one of the two remaining years.)

Of course, this is why my next sentence, which was not included in your quote, was that "I don't think accolades should be the primary factor". This is also why I stated that my vote is driven by the eye test and not just accolades. This is also why I do not give as much credence to rings when evaluating players - because context matters. How good is the player's team and what was the competition at the time.

[trex_8063]

For reasons outlined in my above two posts, as well as eye-test (some limited scouting observations provided in the last thread), I'm voting Patrick Ewing. He and Kareem appear the two most deserving candidates left (perhaps even by a substantial margin).

[ThaRegul8r]

Ewing was named to 3 All Defense second teams in his career. I don't think accolades should be the primary factor, but it is odd that he was never named to a first team and 3 second teams in a 15-year career seems light for a top ten nominee.

Context matters.

Ewing entered the league in '85-86, a year after Hakeem, who's already voted in in this project at #2. At the beginning of his career, Mark Eaton was a fixture on the All-D team (the reigning DPoY when Ewing entered the league), and after his rookie year the All-D team was Hakeem & Eaton, Hakeem & Ewing/Eaton (both tied for All-D 2nd Team), Eaton (DPoY) & Ewing, then David Robinson—who's also already voted in in this project at #3—entered the league in '89-90. In four of the next 5 years, the All-D team would be Hakeem and Robinson in some order (with Ewing getting in behind Robinson in '92), and 5 times overall they were the top two centers. Again, both of whom this board has voted as better defenders than Ewing. Then Mutombo—who also is already voted in in this project at #4, entered the league in '91-92, and was on the All-D team four times in the '90s. In '95, and from '97 to '99, the All-D team was one of either Robinson or Hakeem and Mutombo (Robinson and Hakeem taking the two spots for the last time in '96), until Alonzo Mourning broke it up in '99, making the first team with Mutombo second. Ewing would only play three more years after that.

So Ewing's career was concurrent with three centers already voted as better defenders by this board. The #2 center preceded him by a year, and he only had four years before the #3 center came along (making the All-D half of those four years), after which point the #2 and #3 centers as determined by this board monopolized the All-D teams for half a decade, then the #4 center as voted by this board came along, and it was between those three until the end of the decade. So why would it be odd that he was "only" named to three second teams in his career when the second-, third-, and fourth-best defensive centers of all time according to this board were getting those accolades? (For 8 out of 10 years the 1st & 2nd All-D centers were two of those three, and Ewing made it for one of the two remaining years.)

Of course, this is why my next sentence, which was not included in your quote, was that "I don't think accolades should be the primary factor".

What are you talking about?

Ewing was named to 3 All Defense second teams in his career. I don't think accolades should be the primary factor, but it is odd that he was never named to a first team and 3 second teams in a 15-year career seems light for a top ten nominee.

Context matters.

That was the second sentence in the quote, so asserting I didn't include it is a false statement. Then after that, you immediately say, "but (there's frequently a "but") it is odd that he was never named to a first team and 3 second teams in a 15-year career seems light for a top ten nominee."

This is also why I stated that my vote is driven by the eye test and not just accolades.

I couldn't care less who you vote for. Your vote is your vote. I'm not a participant in the project, so it doesn't matter to me. But you thought it important enough nonetheless to point out a player's relative lack of defensive accolades, which is why I posted what I did. (trex_8063 spoke to the same point 5 posts after I did—not that what anyone else says has anything to do with I say, as it stands on its own; though in the interest of fairness, he did so while voting for Ewing, while I am not a participant and thus have no voting interest.) It's flat-out misleading to say a player's accolades are sparse for someone who's supposed to be a top ten nominee without mentioning the fact that his career happened to coincide with no less than three players who were voted to be better in this project. It isn't as if anyone who hasn't yet been voted in (and thus also determined to be not as good as the players voted #2-4) would do any better in the same situation, so it isn't "odd" at all when you look at the circumstances. He was "only" three-time 2nd Team All-D because centers who were even better than he was (and this project has acknowledged them to be better) were winning the accolades. It isn't some big mystery.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Does consistency of defensive effort matter?
Suppose Kareem only brings his A game defensively when his A game is needed do I consider Kareem's best play or his average play?
Do you agree with me that Kareem did not always play hard on defense?
This question of Kareem's effort was raised repeatedly but Kareem's style may have made him look less involved than he was. Also much of the media did not like Kareem and they would not necessarily be objective when they wrote.

One of the guys who's defense Kareem praised, Artis Gilmore also had a defensive A game that might have got him on this list if he had been consistently working on defense. It is sort of unfair to players on bad teams to expect them to play hard but some players keep playing hard on defense when their teams are bad.

I might go with Mark Eaton next round. Kareem, Mourning, Golbert, Dwight Howard, Camby are also getting some consideration from me. I won't be voting for Parish but Parish was good. I guess I won't consider Walton out because of his injuries but Walton was good in Portland.

I think I will go with Ewing this round.
Vote Ewing

[SkyHookFTW]

For reasons stated before and outlined by others it is indeed time for Ewing. Patrick Ewing gets my vote.

[penbeast0]

Does consistency of defensive effort matter?
Suppose Kareem only brings his A game defensively when his A game is needed do I consider Kareem's best play or his average play?
Do you agree with me that Kareem did not always play hard on defense?
This question of Kareem's effort was raised repeatedly but Kareem's style may have made him look less involved than he was. Also much of the media did not like Kareem and they would not necessarily be objective when they wrote.

One of the guys who's defense Kareem praised, Artis Gilmore also had a defensive A game that might have got him on this list if he had been consistently working on defense. It is sort of unfair to players on bad teams to expect them to play hard but some players keep playing hard on defense when their teams are bad.

I might go with Mark Eaton next round. Kareem, Mourning, Golbert, Dwight Howard, Camby are also getting some consideration from me. I won't be voting for Parish but Parish was good. I guess I won't consider Walton out because of his injuries but Walton was good in Portland.

I think I will go with Ewing this round.
Vote Ewing

I don't think Camby belongs on that list, he blocked a lot of shots. Some of his own fans in Denver on this board thought his DPOY far fetched. Interested to hear why you think he was that good.