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Post your top 15 bigmen in NBA history (post-shotclock era), for overall careers (not peaks). Mine:

1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
2. Bill Russell
3. Tim Duncan
4. Wilt Chamberlain
5. Hakeem Olajuwon
6. Shaquille O'Neal
7. Kevin Garnett
8. Karl Malone
9. David Robinson
10. Dirk Nowitzki
11. Moses Malone
12. Charles Barkley
13. Bob Pettit
14. Patrick Ewing
15. Artis Gilmore

HMs: Dolph Schayes, Kevin McHale

KAJ
Wilt
Shaq
Russell
Duncan
Hakeem
Dirk
Moses
Barkley
Robinson
KG
Malone
Pettit
Gilmore
McHale

Kareem
Russell
Garnett
Duncan
Wilt
Shaq
Hakeem
Dirk
K Malone
Robinson
Barkley
M Malone
Ewing
Gilmore
McHale




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Kareem
Russell
Olajuwon
Wilt
Shaq
Duncan
KG
K.Malone
Robinson
Barkley
Dirk
Ewing
Gilmore
Moses
McHale

Kareem
Wilt
Duncan
Oneal
Hakeem
Russell
K.Malone
Garnett
Nowitzki
Robinson
Barkley
M.Malone
Pettit
Ewing
Gilmore

No particular order in each tier. Big men are defined by size and style of play. Lebron's arguably peaked as a 4 but I'm not ranking him here. He is tier one obviously if you do.

Tier One
Russell, Jabbar, Garnett (possible if you are heavy plus/minus person with stock in longevity)

Tier Two
Chamberlain, Garnett, Shaq, Robinson (possible if you are heavy plus/minus person with less stock on PS issues), Hakeem Duncan

Tier Three
Robinson, K Malone, Dirk, Pettit (Edit: fully admit I know little about him. He did fully transition into the desegregated era.)

Tier Four
Ewing, Howard, McAdoo, Hayes, Gilmore, Barkley, M Malone,

Kareem/Russell
Duncan
Wilt
Shaq
Hakeem
Garnett
K. Malone
Nowitzki
Robinson
Moses
Barkley
Ewing
Pettit
McHale/Gilmore

Russell
Wilt
Kareem
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem
Dirk
KG
Robinson
Malone
Barkley
Ewing
Moses
Pettit
Gilmore

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1. KAJ
2. Tim Duncan
3. Bill Russell
4. Wilt Chamberlain
5. Shaquille O'Neal
6. Hakeem Olajuwon
7. Kevin Garnett
8. Karl Malone
9. Dirk Nowitzki
10. David Robinson
11. Charles Barkley
12. Moses Malone
13. Patrick Ewing
14. Bob Pettit
15. Artis Gilmore

Nearest HM's are Pau Gasol, Robert Parish, Kevin McHale, Dwight Howard, and Dolph Schayes.
**Note: George Mikan could possibly be my #15 if you'd not stipulated post-shotclock. EDIT: Or for that matter, Dolph Schayes wouldn't be one of the top 5 HM's if I'm to disregard his pre-shotclock seasons.

what about willis reed??
is he regarded that weak or are others that much better??

CumberlandPosey wrote:what about willis reed??
is he regarded that weak or are others that much better??

Willis Reed was really good, especially at his peak he could compete with anybody but he had very short career (6-7 prime years and one full post-prime year). At least that's why I don't have him here hut in terms of short primes he can be here.

Wilt
Kareem
Russell
Shaq
Olajuwon
Duncan
D Rob
KG
Mailman
Dirk
Moses
Charles
Pettit
Ewing
Gilmore

CumberlandPosey wrote:what about willis reed??
is he regarded that weak or are others that much better??

Reed suffers from a brutal lack of longevity. Very strong peak/prime but very short.

sp6r=underrated wrote:No particular order in each tier. Big men are defined by size and style of play. Lebron's arguably peaked as a 4 but I'm not ranking him here. He is tier one obviously if you do.

Tier One
Russell, Jabbar, Garnett (possible if you are heavy plus/minus person with stock in longevity)

Tier Two
Chamberlain, Garnett, Shaq, Robinson (possible if you are heavy plus/minus person with less stock on PS issues), Hakeem Duncan

Tier Three
Robinson, K Malone, Dirk, Pettit (Edit: fully admit I know little about him. He did fully transition into the desegregated era.)

Tier Four
Ewing, Howard, McAdoo, Hayes, Gilmore, Barkley, M Malone,

Are there 2 Garnetts?

No-more-rings wrote:

sp6r=underrated wrote:No particular order in each tier. Big men are defined by size and style of play. Lebron's arguably peaked as a 4 but I'm not ranking him here. He is tier one obviously if you do.

Tier One
Russell, Jabbar, Garnett (possible if you are heavy plus/minus person with stock in longevity)

Tier Two
Chamberlain, Garnett, Shaq, Robinson (possible if you are heavy plus/minus person with less stock on PS issues), Hakeem Duncan

Tier Three
Robinson, K Malone, Dirk, Pettit (Edit: fully admit I know little about him. He did fully transition into the desegregated era.)

Tier Four
Ewing, Howard, McAdoo, Hayes, Gilmore, Barkley, M Malone,

Are there 2 Garnetts?

I included Garnett and Robinson on both tiers because I had less confidence in where they rank. That is why I had a comment about them in the parenthesis.

sp6r=underrated wrote:

No-more-rings wrote:

sp6r=underrated wrote:No particular order in each tier. Big men are defined by size and style of play. Lebron's arguably peaked as a 4 but I'm not ranking him here. He is tier one obviously if you do.

Tier One
Russell, Jabbar, Garnett (possible if you are heavy plus/minus person with stock in longevity)

Tier Two
Chamberlain, Garnett, Shaq, Robinson (possible if you are heavy plus/minus person with less stock on PS issues), Hakeem Duncan

Tier Three
Robinson, K Malone, Dirk, Pettit (Edit: fully admit I know little about him. He did fully transition into the desegregated era.)

Tier Four
Ewing, Howard, McAdoo, Hayes, Gilmore, Barkley, M Malone,

Are there 2 Garnetts?

I included Garnett and Robinson on both tiers because I had less confidence in where they rank. That is why I had a comment about them in the parenthesis.

I’m curious to why Duncan doesn’t have a tier one argument but KG does, without really digging in i think he’s comparable in pretty much any statistical way, and was also one of the top RAPM guys of his time just like KG.

I’m surprise people put Moses Malone so low. He’s 3 time nba mvp. He was no slouch.

I really do not see how Malone can be behind guys like Barkley/Malone/Garnett/dirk/Robinson. He’s clearly better than all those guys.

In my opinion. He’s in the second tier behind Kareem/wilt/Russell

Moses beat Lakers in 1981 when they were defending champions with crap Houston team.

And neck and neck with shaq/Duncan/the dream. I’d would actually put him ahead of all shaq/Duncan/dream actually.

Dude is a top 15 nba all time great among ALL positions.

Probably the best center for close to 10 years from 1978-1987.

No-more-rings wrote:I’m curious to why Duncan doesn’t have a tier one argument but KG does, without really digging in i think he’s comparable in pretty much any statistical way, and was also one of the top RAPM guys of his time just like KG.

The argument for KG being in the GOAT tier is roughly sketched as this
1. No NBA player was in a worse situation than him.
2. The stat that best accounts for team quality and overall individual performance is RAPM.
3. We now have 20 years of RAPM data place him as identical to Lebron and both stand out from everyone else.
4. Lebron is a consensus GOAT candidate.
5. KG's career is substantially longer.
6. ergo, KG belongs on the GOAT tier or Lebron doesn't.

The KG skeptic argument is well known and I won't rehash it here. KG's historical ranking has a higher variance than Duncan. You can accept this even if you think the average ranking for Duncan is higher than KG.

In comparison to the two of them, I go back and forth between them and have ranked Duncan ahead of KG many times. I consider it

Kareem
Wilt/Shaq/Russel
Duncan
Hakeem
Dirk/KG
Robinson
Karl Malone
Moses Malone
Barkley
Gilmore
Pettit
Ewing

I always feel that the top 4 centers each have a case against one another, and I keep changing around the order of them in my head. Right now I think that Kareem has the best combination of peak two-way dominance, longevity and team success to be #1. I think that any argument you can make for Wilt can also work for Shaq, and I also can't comfortably put Wilt of Russel because of the head-to-head team success (and I just don't think the gap between their supporting casts are that huge, so Russel must be having more offensive impact than his unimpressive offensive numbers suggest).

I love Hakeem but I think that he gets a bit overrated as people project what he did in his two championship years backwards to cover his whole career - he was always really good, but he made major strides as a passer fairly late in his career which made a huge difference in his offensive impact.

kuclas wrote:I’m surprise people put Moses Malone so low. He’s 3 time nba mvp. He was no slouch.

His teams often had pretty mediocre defenses with him anchoring them - he had some good seasons on defense but he doesn't have the same sort of consistent impact on D that guys like Duncan, Hakeem and Robinson had. That's probably a big part of it.

Kareem
Wilt
Hakeem
Russell
Shaq
Duncan
Barkley
DIrk
Robinson
Moses Malone
Gilmore
Karl Malone
Garnett
Ewing
Yao