Better prime between LeBron and KAJ

[Cavsfansince84]

For the purposes of this thread we are going to use Kareem from 1970-1982(13 years) and LeBron from 06-18(13 years). Which of the two in your mind had the better prime? The criteria you wish to use or favor is completely up to you. Include both regular season and playoffs but more emphasis on regular season.

[picko]

I lean towards LeBron mainly because the NBA was a bit of a mess throughout the 1970s. Massive league expansion and the existence of the ABA create a watered down league.

Kareem was incredibly dominant throughout that period but he also somehow managed to miss the playoffs two years in a row when at the peak of his powers. There were also some early round exits and series where his teams under-performed expectations until Magic came along.

LeBron has dominated the league during a period where the talent pool has been incredibly deep. This is a strong era for the NBA. He has a few black marks on his playoff resume - 2011 meltdown, 2010 Celtics series - but fewer than Kareem. I think for the most part though LeBron has overachieved in the playoffs by dragging several very limited teams much further than they probably should've got.

[_Game7_]

Both top 3 All-Time, this should be a good one.

[70sFan]

Two of the longest and best primes ever. I expect Kareem to lose badly here, but I am not comfortable enough with my choice to vote.

[No-more-rings]

Lebron. Sorry to Kareem fans, and fans of anyone besides Lebron and Jordan but those 2 are in a class of their own.

[Joao Saraiva]

Taking only those years into account I'm taking LeBron.

I believe he produced more value in a year by year basis.

His ability to handle the ball on offense is a big deal, it's easier to build a legit offense for a contender team arround James than it is to build it arround KAJ. The handling and playmaking skills of LeBron for me are enough to give him the edge.

However, at least 83-85 KAJ are years of great value. 86 a bit less but still very good. I think those are enough to, for now, give a small edge to KAJ if we consider prime with that type of extension.

If it's a 5 year prime (their 5 best years) as I like to define, I'm already taking LeBron too.

[70sFan]

Lebron. Sorry to Kareem fans, and fans of anyone besides Lebron and Jordan but those 2 are in a class of their own.

Based on what exactly?

[No-more-rings]

Lebron. Sorry to Kareem fans, and fans of anyone besides Lebron and Jordan but those 2 are in a class of their own.

Based on what exactly?

They’re much better offensive players whether you like it or not, and are top notch defenders for their positions. Kareem was not an all time defensive anchor like Duncan, Hakeem, Kg etc.

[70sFan]

Lebron. Sorry to Kareem fans, and fans of anyone besides Lebron and Jordan but those 2 are in a class of their own.

Based on what exactly?

They’re much better offensive players whether you like it or not, and are top notch defenders for their positions. Kareem was not an all time defensive anchor like Duncan, Hakeem, Kg etc.

Kareem was defensive anchor though. His 1971-74 run in Milwaukee is one of the best 4 years ever as a defensive anchor and he was great defender until he got old. No, he wasn't like Duncan or Hakeem but he was far better defender than James or Jordan. It's actually not even close and the gap is clearer than offensive one.

I don't mind anyone taking James here (I may even take him too) but saying "sorry to Kareem fans but they are in class of their own" isn't really fair for Kareem (and others). Jabbar was all-time great offensive player and far better defensive player than either of them. We can argue which combination is more impressive, but we don't have clear choice here.

[No-more-rings]

Based on what exactly?

They’re much better offensive players whether you like it or not, and are top notch defenders for their positions. Kareem was not an all time defensive anchor like Duncan, Hakeem, Kg etc.

Kareem was defensive anchor though. His 1971-74 run in Milwaukee is one of the best 4 years ever as a defensive anchor and he was great defender until he got old. No, he wasn't like Duncan or Hakeem but he was far better defender than James or Jordan. It's actually not even close and the gap is clearer than offensive one.

I don't mind anyone taking James here (I may even take him too) but saying "sorry to Kareem fans but they are in class of their own" isn't really fair for Kareem (and others). Jabbar was all-time great offensive player and far better defensive player than either of them. We can argue which combination is more impressive, but we don't have clear choice here.

Is Kareem really “much better defender” than James? Outside of perhaps Pippen,Rodman and maybe one or 2 others, Lebron had more defensive impact than any other wing for a good number of years. He wasn’t good these past couple years, but Kareem fell off massively on d and rebounding in his later years too.

Offense is not close, sorry. Guards/wings have more impact and versatility offensively than big men.
It’s just my opinion, I think they are clearly better in their primes and their numbers and bodies of work certainly backs that up.

[mademan]

Based on what exactly?

They’re much better offensive players whether you like it or not, and are top notch defenders for their positions. Kareem was not an all time defensive anchor like Duncan, Hakeem, Kg etc.

Kareem was defensive anchor though. His 1971-74 run in Milwaukee is one of the best 4 years ever as a defensive anchor and he was great defender until he got old. No, he wasn't like Duncan or Hakeem but he was far better defender than James or Jordan. It's actually not even close and the gap is clearer than offensive one.

I don't mind anyone taking James here (I may even take him too) but saying "sorry to Kareem fans but they are in class of their own" isn't really fair for Kareem (and others). Jabbar was all-time great offensive player and far better defensive player than either of them. We can argue which combination is more impressive, but we don't have clear choice here.

Lebron was also a defensive anchor from 09-13. These past few years may rewrite the history of his defense, but he was as elite as you get from the wing spot for half a decade. Kareem certainly has better longevity there though, as pre-prime Lebron was pretty mediocre on that end and present day Lebron is laughably bad.

I think a direct comparison with the 2 is very difficiult to do. I think a very strong argument can be made that Kareem, in his prime, was better than his competition to a greater degree of Lebronand his competition.

[70sFan]

They’re much better offensive players whether you like it or not, and are top notch defenders for their positions. Kareem was not an all time defensive anchor like Duncan, Hakeem, Kg etc.

Kareem was defensive anchor though. His 1971-74 run in Milwaukee is one of the best 4 years ever as a defensive anchor and he was great defender until he got old. No, he wasn't like Duncan or Hakeem but he was far better defender than James or Jordan. It's actually not even close and the gap is clearer than offensive one.

I don't mind anyone taking James here (I may even take him too) but saying "sorry to Kareem fans but they are in class of their own" isn't really fair for Kareem (and others). Jabbar was all-time great offensive player and far better defensive player than either of them. We can argue which combination is more impressive, but we don't have clear choice here.

Is Kareem really “much better defender” than James? Outside of perhaps Pippen,Rodman and maybe one or 2 others, Lebron had more defensive impact than any other wing for a good number of years. He wasn’t good these past couple years, but Kareem fell off massively on d and rebounding in his later years too.

Offense is not close, sorry. Guards/wings have more impact and versatility offensively than big men.
It’s just my opinion, I think they are clearly better in their primes and their numbers and bodies of work certainly backs that up.

Of course he was. Kareem was all-time great defender at his best and he was DPOTY candidate for full decade. Kareem started to decline after 1983 defensively. Meanwhile James was elite defender for 5-6 years (2009-13 and maybe 2016). He has been quite inconsistent throughout whole prime.

[penbeast0]

I tend to favor LeBron. Kareem has two issues that cause his prime to slip behind where the raw numbers would put it. First, his prime was mainly in the 70s, the second weakest era in NBA history and one where expansion watered down the competition tremendously. And . . . he underperformed expectations in that era. Not statistically so much but in terms of team performance.

The other reason, and one of the reasons I have bought into as to WHY he underperformed is his own admitted alienation from his teammates through most of his prime. Kareem was a highly intelligent black man in an era of transforming racial relations; he was a Muslim convert in a primarily Christian league and country; and he was not a natural leader type for reasons other than his incredible athletic abilities. When a group of Muslims were murdered in one of his houses in a hate crime, he withdrew in both the locker room and publicly and the race/religion haters targeted him even more intensely. This is one reason he forced his way out of Milwaukee to LA and seemed to create communication/leadership difficulties for him with teammates. Thus I feel this was a reason the Milwaukee teams underperformed some years and the Norm Nixon, Jamal Wilkes LA teams did also. I could be wrong quite easily, it's hard to see into the minds of strangers. But it did impact his basketball greatness.

LeBron was a successful product of his era, manipulating his fame and increasing player power within the league to aid, rather than challenge, his basketball skills. He pushed the limits on things like crab dribbles and moving to superteams that would best showcase his skills and it worked for both him and his team on the court. One possible explanation of why he was the more successful player during his prime.

[Gooner]

Lebron. Sorry to Kareem fans, and fans of anyone besides Lebron and Jordan but those 2 are in a class of their own.

LeBron is not in Jordan's class. Better comparison for him is Larry Bird, and i would take Larry legend any day.

[70sFan]

I mean, people love talking how Kareem defense declined. I know that blocks isn't good defensive metric, but his BLK% started to decline in 1984 when he was 36 years old. Based on eye-test, he was still very good defender in 1983. His rebounding declined, but overall he was still two-way superstar.

James is younger now than Kareem was in 1984 and he coasted on defense at least since 2017. Don't be ridiculous, Kareem has better defensive peak, prime and longevity. That doesn't necessary make him better overall player, but I don't think this is something debatable. Not at all.

[No-more-rings]

Lebron. Sorry to Kareem fans, and fans of anyone besides Lebron and Jordan but those 2 are in a class of their own.

LeBron is not in Jordan's class. Better comparison for him is Larry Bird, and i would take Larry legend any day.

Yeah but i also know you are anti-Lebron which is fine, but you can’t let it effect your objectivity. Statistically Lebron and Mj are in the same class, with Bird clearly below.

[Gooner]

Lebron. Sorry to Kareem fans, and fans of anyone besides Lebron and Jordan but those 2 are in a class of their own.

LeBron is not in Jordan's class. Better comparison for him is Larry Bird, and i would take Larry legend any day.

Yeah but i also know you are anti-Lebron which is fine, but you can’t let it effect your objectivity. Statistically Lebron and Mj are in the same class, with Bird clearly below.

I look at the game, not just empty stats, i always say that. And Bird's numbers are comparable to LeBron's. He had points, rebounds, assists, steals, efficiency. He stuffed that stat sheet just like LeBron. But looking at intangibles, Larry Bird brought more to the table. One of the toughest players ever. He would tell the opponent what he plans to do on next possession, and still do it with ease. He intimidated his opponents, and LeBron would shrink in the mere presence of Larry legend.

[70sFan]

Please, don't ruin another thread with MJ vs James debate. We have enough of it...

[Samurai]

Just for those years, I would give a very slight edge to Kareem.

I give LeBron's offense an edge because he can bring the ball up the court and initiate the offense on his own; Kareem is dependent on others to bring the ball up and to get him the ball when he is in optimum position. LeBron can create his own optimum position with the ball, which gives him the edge.

I give Kareem the edge defensively. Posters have said they were both defensive anchors in their prime years and I would agree. But having a dominant center as a defensive anchor during the non 3-point line era just provides a bigger impact on the game. Kareem's defense and rebounding clearly dropped off as he aged, but that is irrelevant for this discussion since the years to consider are specified. Kareem's defense, particularly during his Milwaukee years, tend to be greatly underrated by those that did not see him play live during that era. His defense impacted the other team's gameplan to a much greater degree than LeBron's. That's not LeBron's fault for playing when he did - people can't control when they were born. I am just looking at how each played within their own era. On both offense and defense, a center could dominate a game much more than a forward during that era. Frankly I don't see how anyone who watched a lot of basketball then could argue otherwise; that's just how the game was played.

[70sFan]

Watch on YouTube

Look at this short clip - Kareem contested everything in that game. James just couldn't have that kind of impact on defensive end.