Lebron and Giannis, age 24 going forward

[NbaAllDay]

I love Giannis but this is kinda of silly.

Lebron takes all of these.

Lebron also had a worst supporting cast than the current Bucks and did what he did. I don't see Giannis on that level.

[AdagioPace]

come on, Giannis is not even 100% better than '18 Anthony Davis or '17 Kawhi, let alone arguably the greatest season of all time...

[AussieBuck]

I love Giannis but he's on a different trajectory to Lebron's timeline. He's catching up quick though, in the end though we're all just guessing as to where he stops improving. IIRC he's been top 10 in the most improved award 4 times lol.

[Ron Swanson]

come on, Giannis is not even 100% better than '18 Anthony Davis or '17 Kawhi, let alone arguably the greatest season of all time...

Uhhh, yes. Yes he is. 100%

[SeniorWalker]

Giannis is a different case than LeBron because, IIRC, he was not around basketball his entire life. I think he came in with enormous physical tools, but LeBron had a much better feel for the game right away.

I do think however that, assuming he stays healthy, he has a chance to surpass LeBron's peak. He seems to be improving not just statistically, but filling in gaps in his game pretty rapidly. Of this generation of players he unquestionably has the highest ceiling.

I'd probably bet against him surpassing LeBron's peak because LeBron has one of the top 3 or 4 peaks ever. But I do see a path to him doing it, which says quite a lot about him. Also I hope he keeps his current attitude, I like his mindset a lot. Very old school.

[Jaqua92]

Age 24


Lebron James
28.4 ppg, 7.6 rb, 7.2 ast


Giannis Antetokounmpo
27.5 ppg, 12.7 rb, 6 ast


Both players had similar production at age 24. The difference is that Giannis has significantly improved each season and Lebron started out with excellent fundamentals coming into the league. How do both players compare at age 24 and is it even likely that Giannis can eclipse Lebron's peak in the next 4-5 years? Who will have more championships when all is said and done?

LeBron didn't come in with excellent fundamentals. He had athleticism, and explosiveness. The fundamental "skilled" "smart" LeBron didn't exist until Miami

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[bledredwine]

Age 24


Lebron James
28.4 ppg, 7.6 rb, 7.2 ast


Giannis Antetokounmpo
27.5 ppg, 12.7 rb, 6 ast


Both players had similar production at age 24. The difference is that Giannis has significantly improved each season and Lebron started out with excellent fundamentals coming into the league. How do both players compare at age 24 and is it even likely that Giannis can eclipse Lebron's peak in the next 4-5 years? Who will have more championships when all is said and done?

LeBron didn't come in with excellent fundamentals. He had athleticism, and explosiveness. The fundamental "skilled" "smart" LeBron didn't exist until Miami

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I couldn’t disagree more. Miami Lebron was more efficient next to wade bosh, but Lebron had his style and most of his fundamentals coming into the league. He just had to continue developing them and his Cavs years were great (I lived in Cleveland for years, loved Lebron at the time and Cleveland was my 3rd fav team after bulls and nuggets)

[Colbinii]

Age 24


Lebron James
28.4 ppg, 7.6 rb, 7.2 ast


Giannis Antetokounmpo
27.5 ppg, 12.7 rb, 6 ast


Both players had similar production at age 24. The difference is that Giannis has significantly improved each season and Lebron started out with excellent fundamentals coming into the league. How do both players compare at age 24 and is it even likely that Giannis can eclipse Lebron's peak in the next 4-5 years? Who will have more championships when all is said and done?

LeBron didn't come in with excellent fundamentals. He had athleticism, and explosiveness. The fundamental "skilled" "smart" LeBron didn't exist until Miami

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He was a fantastic passer and defender [2 fundamental skills] when he was very young. He also possessed an innate ability to get to the rim [seems fundamental to basketball as well].



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[Heej]

Age 24


Lebron James
28.4 ppg, 7.6 rb, 7.2 ast


Giannis Antetokounmpo
27.5 ppg, 12.7 rb, 6 ast


Both players had similar production at age 24. The difference is that Giannis has significantly improved each season and Lebron started out with excellent fundamentals coming into the league. How do both players compare at age 24 and is it even likely that Giannis can eclipse Lebron's peak in the next 4-5 years? Who will have more championships when all is said and done?

LeBron didn't come in with excellent fundamentals. He had athleticism, and explosiveness. The fundamental "skilled" "smart" LeBron didn't exist until Miami

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No lol this post is so bad. You're basically talking about Josh Smith here. If you want to argue LeBron's skillset coming into the league I'm more than ready to serve you but I think it's better for both of us and this thread to avoid that derailment. Just can't let such a bad post slide without calling it out. Amazing how a guy can come into the league legitimately ambidextrous and a generational passer but he had no fundamentals, skills, or intelligence

[SweetTouch]

Lol has Giannis won a playoff series yet

[Cavsfansince84]

LeBron didn't come in with excellent fundamentals. He had athleticism, and explosiveness. The fundamental "skilled" "smart" LeBron didn't exist until Miami

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No lol this post is so bad. You're basically talking about Josh Smith here. If you want to argue LeBron's skillset coming into the league I'm more than ready to serve you but I think it's better for both of us and this thread to avoid that derailment. Just can't let such a bad post slide without calling it out. Amazing how a guy can come into the league legitimately ambidextrous and a generational passer but he had no fundamentals, skills, or intelligence

I think the biggest problem with the comment you are replying to is where he says he didn't have great fundamentals/bbiq until his Miami days. He didn't really come in with great fundamentals but he came in with a very advanced understanding of how to play as well as a top 5 athleticism/talent combo. What really has made LeBron into a top 5 atg is his ability to see what he needs to improve on and then improve on it. He was so lost as a rookie for the first half of the season. He was trying to figure out his role on the team, his shot selection was quite often atrocious and he still had a hitch at the top of his jump shot that had to be fixed. Then in year 2 Ricky Davis was gone and LeBron literally goes from lost rookie getting by on athleticism and sheer talent to team leader and all nba 2nd or 3rd team level player. That tells you how high his bbiq is and how much he worked on his game in that one year. His third year he was carrying the offense in a way he never did again in his career and I think he understood that he was asking too much of himself and needed to adapt his game again. That's partly what led him to having a subpar 07 year I think. He still had a lot of improve on and was starting to become a great defensive player while getting better as a playmaker as well as his shot selection and getting better at finishing by learning to use his strength. Then from there he started to really put it together while improving in almost every area. The thing that stands out to me the most about LeBron throughout his career has been his willingness to keep improving. That's how he ended up having the sort of post seasons he had the last 3 years. Its the culmination of all the work he's put into his game in the previous 12 years.

[Dr Positivity]

Until he proves otherwise you have to go with the GOAT level player Lebron here. And Lebron's 2009 season is better. Lebron won 66 games with maybe as good a supporting cast as Kemba has this year.

[Jaqua92]

Age 24


Lebron James
28.4 ppg, 7.6 rb, 7.2 ast


Giannis Antetokounmpo
27.5 ppg, 12.7 rb, 6 ast


Both players had similar production at age 24. The difference is that Giannis has significantly improved each season and Lebron started out with excellent fundamentals coming into the league. How do both players compare at age 24 and is it even likely that Giannis can eclipse Lebron's peak in the next 4-5 years? Who will have more championships when all is said and done?

LeBron didn't come in with excellent fundamentals. He had athleticism, and explosiveness. The fundamental "skilled" "smart" LeBron didn't exist until Miami

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No lol this post is so bad. You're basically talking about Josh Smith here. If you want to argue LeBron's skillset coming into the league I'm more than ready to serve you but I think it's better for both of us and this thread to avoid that derailment. Just can't let such a bad post slide without calling it out. Amazing how a guy can come into the league legitimately ambidextrous and a generational passer but he had no fundamentals, skills, or intelligence

All I said was that the LeBron that we know didn't really develop until Miami. It was absolutely no slight against LeBron. Mentally, he was a whole different animal during Miami and afterwards.

it seems like you're more interested in proving me wrong than anything else lol

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[Jaqua92]

LeBron didn't come in with excellent fundamentals. He had athleticism, and explosiveness. The fundamental "skilled" "smart" LeBron didn't exist until Miami

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

No lol this post is so bad. You're basically talking about Josh Smith here. If you want to argue LeBron's skillset coming into the league I'm more than ready to serve you but I think it's better for both of us and this thread to avoid that derailment. Just can't let such a bad post slide without calling it out. Amazing how a guy can come into the league legitimately ambidextrous and a generational passer but he had no fundamentals, skills, or intelligence

I think the biggest problem with the comment you are replying to is where he says he didn't have great fundamentals/bbiq until his Miami days. He didn't really come in with great fundamentals but he came in with a very advanced understanding of how to play as well as a top 5 athleticism/talent combo. What really has made LeBron into a top 5 atg is his ability to see what he needs to improve on and then improve on it. He was so lost as a rookie for the first half of the season. He was trying to figure out his role on the team, his shot selection was quite often atrocious and he still had a hitch at the top of his jump shot that had to be fixed. Then in year 2 Ricky Davis was gone and LeBron literally goes from lost rookie getting by on athleticism and sheer talent to team leader and all nba 2nd or 3rd team level player. That tells you how high his bbiq is and how much he worked on his game in that one year. His third year he was carrying the offense in a way he never did again in his career and I think he understood that he was asking too much of himself and needed to adapt his game again. That's partly what led him to having a subpar 07 year I think. He still had a lot of improve on and was starting to become a great defensive player while getting better as a playmaker as well as his shot selection and getting better at finishing by learning to use his strength. Then from there he started to really put it together while improving in almost every area. The thing that stands out to me the most about LeBron throughout his career has been his willingness to keep improving. That's how he ended up having the sort of post seasons he had the last 3 years. Its the culmination of all the work he's put into his game in the previous 12 years.

Now this is a thinker. I applaud you for using deductive reasoning and attempting to decipher what I meant, rather than schooling me

(Taking a jab at you HEEJ ) in good taste of course.

But you are spot on. LeBron came into the league as a great athlete, with a great understanding of how to play the game. to both of you, there is a reason I put smart in quotations. I'm referring to same kind of control that someone like rondo or even magic played with. LeBron came in with a deep understanding of the game with plenty of room to grow intellectually. But he was not the cerebral player he is today.He did not come into the game quite as fundamentally sound as he is these days

His fundamentals evolved as he played in Miami, and his basketball intelligence crystallized as he learned how he can play on the championship team.

And the result, was a formula he learned for high impact and control and as you said, one that developed for years.. a smarter more in control LeBron. And I'm not really wrong on this.

I think Heej took my comments as a slight against LeBron, which, given his obvious bias towards LeBron, his eagerness to prove me wrong rather than reason with me is totally understandable and I wont knock him for it.

My comment was a compliment to LeBron lol

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[E-Balla]

There's only 5 players I'd take over a 24 year old Lebron.

[Heej]

No lol this post is so bad. You're basically talking about Josh Smith here. If you want to argue LeBron's skillset coming into the league I'm more than ready to serve you but I think it's better for both of us and this thread to avoid that derailment. Just can't let such a bad post slide without calling it out. Amazing how a guy can come into the league legitimately ambidextrous and a generational passer but he had no fundamentals, skills, or intelligence

I think the biggest problem with the comment you are replying to is where he says he didn't have great fundamentals/bbiq until his Miami days. He didn't really come in with great fundamentals but he came in with a very advanced understanding of how to play as well as a top 5 athleticism/talent combo. What really has made LeBron into a top 5 atg is his ability to see what he needs to improve on and then improve on it. He was so lost as a rookie for the first half of the season. He was trying to figure out his role on the team, his shot selection was quite often atrocious and he still had a hitch at the top of his jump shot that had to be fixed. Then in year 2 Ricky Davis was gone and LeBron literally goes from lost rookie getting by on athleticism and sheer talent to team leader and all nba 2nd or 3rd team level player. That tells you how high his bbiq is and how much he worked on his game in that one year. His third year he was carrying the offense in a way he never did again in his career and I think he understood that he was asking too much of himself and needed to adapt his game again. That's partly what led him to having a subpar 07 year I think. He still had a lot of improve on and was starting to become a great defensive player while getting better as a playmaker as well as his shot selection and getting better at finishing by learning to use his strength. Then from there he started to really put it together while improving in almost every area. The thing that stands out to me the most about LeBron throughout his career has been his willingness to keep improving. That's how he ended up having the sort of post seasons he had the last 3 years. Its the culmination of all the work he's put into his game in the previous 12 years.

Now this is a thinker. I applaud you for using deductive reasoning and attempting to decipher what I meant, rather than schooling me

(Taking a jab at you HEEJ ) in good taste of course.

But you are spot on. LeBron came into the league as a great athlete, with a great understanding of how to play the game. to both of you, there is a reason I put smart in quotations. I'm referring to same kind of control that someone like rondo or even magic played with. LeBron came in with a deep understanding of the game with plenty of room to grow intellectually. But he was not the cerebral player he is today.He did not come into the game quite as fundamentally sound as he is these days

His fundamentals evolved as he played in Miami, and his basketball intelligence crystallized as he learned how he can play on the championship team.

And the result, was a formula he learned for high impact and control and as you said, one that developed for years.. a smarter more in control LeBron. And I'm not really wrong on this.

I think Heej took my comments as a slight against LeBron, which, given his obvious bias towards LeBron, his eagerness to prove me wrong rather than reason with me is totally understandable and I wont knock him for it.

My comment was a compliment to LeBron lol

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Haha I'm just saying passing, finishing, and ballhandling are all legit fundamental skills. Did he come in as polished as Luka? No. But he was a fairly well developed player by the time he left for Miami. He didn't come in as raw as we all remember, it's just that the 03-04 Season was the most difficult season in NBA history for star player and overall leaguewide production. That year and basically the 99-05 mini era was just the absolute worst lol