Who would be better at defending MJ 1-1? Tony Allen or A Clone of MJ

[mdonnelly1989]

The clone of MJ in this scenario is based ONLY on defensive ability, not because he will be able to get in the head of himself.

[RCM88x]

What years/years of Jordan (assuming peak Tony Allen).

[Jaivl]

Clearly Jordan, I mean...

The clone of MJ in this scenario is based ONLY on defensive ability, not because he will be able to get in the head of himself.

****

Tony Allen then. There's no one I take over him on man defense.

[mdonnelly1989]

What years/years of Jordan (assuming peak Tony Allen).

Whatever year you feel he was the best defensively?

Probably somewhere around 88-90ish?

[HeartBreakKid]

Tony Allen - he has a lower center of gravity which will make it harder to dribble against him, and Tony is also stronger than Jordan which I think is more important than raw speed he's giving up given Tony's build. The ability to hand check, with his strength, while also being on the short side for a wing is pretty beastly combo in the 90s - albeit most of those players aren't super athletes like Jordan.

[hype_2004]

Kawhi Leonard

[DatAsh]

Tony Allen - he has a lower center of gravity which will make it harder to dribble against him, and Tony is also stronger than Jordan which I think is more important than raw speed he's giving up given Tony's build. The ability to hand check, with his strength, while also being on the short side for a wing is pretty beastly combo in the 90s - albeit most of those players aren't super athletes like Jordan.

I disagree that strength is more important than raw speed here, but I agree with your conclusion.

Something I've noticed with the perception of Jordan's defense over the last few years is that he's become this all time great man defender. Jordan was a good man defender, but I don't think he was an all time great at that aspect of defense. Jordan's calling card on defense was his help defense. He had excellent defensive instincts on when to help and when not to, and combined with all time great speed for that size, that allowed him to help and recover off shooters better than basically anyone ever. As a one on one lockdown defender though? I think Tony smokes him. Just my opinion I guess, but I don't see it as that close. We've seen Tony lock down guys time and time again. Fast guys, strong guys, guys with boat loads of skill, he could guard it all, and he could guard it at an all time great level.

Perimeter man defense I would give Jordan 7/10 or 8/10, with 5 being average. Allen is a 10/10.

I think this perception's of Jordan's man defense might stem from comparisons to Kobe(understandably so), and the fact that it's been more than 20 years since he retired. Kobe's help defense was never that great(imo), but he, from time to time, showed flashes of one-on-one defensive brilliance, and when he did actually engage himself, he was known more for that than he was his help defense. Honestly Lebron would be a better comparison to Jordan defensively. Jordan's more like a mini Lebron with slightly better help defense, slightly better man defense, and much worse versatility, but like Lebron he's known more for his help defense than he is his man defense.

[Sublime187]

Yao Ming.

[Dr Positivity]

Nobody knows how to defend Jordan better than Jordan. But otherwise Tony is the better man defender

[LKN]

Always take the faster player. MJ consistently dominated anyone slower than him (he probably had the best first step in the NBA during his career until Iverson entered the league). The guys that gave MJ trouble were always the quicker/smaller guys who could stay in front of him.

[CIB24]

You saw that commercial. Jordan couldn't stop himself. Yeah, we all remember it.

[mysticOscar]

A defensive peak MJ that is just focused on stopping MJ...who is just as quick and athletic...I'll take him

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

I don't care how bad Tony Allen's offense was, if he was as good on defense as Jordan when Jordan was focoused on defense then Tony Allen would have played more minutes for the Celtics. I got a nice look at 33 year old Tony Allen vs "my" 2015 Warriors. Tony did not look that special and did not have much impact on Klay and Curry but then Tony was 33.

I don't agree with the people who dthink Jordan was not a GOAT level one on one defender. Jordan paced himself because he had to carry the offense. When Jordan went full throttle on defense I gave never seen better defensive off guard. Although I have not seen enough Tony Allen I seriously doubt that Tony Allen was as good as Jordan even though I accept that Tony Allen was also an all time elite defender.

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1792345
That project had Jordan as the best off guard defender and Allen as 3rd best.

I was paying attention to the 2008-2010 Celtics but I mostly did not see the 2011-2014 Grizzlies

[trex_8063]

You saw that commercial. Jordan couldn't stop himself. Yeah, we all remember it.

Ah, just had a wave of nostalgia.....

Young MJ: "I could've dunked it."
Old MJ: "You should've dunked it."

[ShotCreator]

I don't care how bad Tony Allen's offense was, if he was as good on defense as Jordan when Jordan was focoused on defense then Tony Allen would have played more minutes for the Celtics. I got a nice look at 33 year old Tony Allen vs "my" 2015 Warriors. Tony did not look that special and did not have much impact on Klay and Curry but then Tony was 33.

I don't agree with the people who dthink Jordan was not a GOAT level one on one defender. Jordan paced himself because he had to carry the offense. When Jordan went full throttle on defense I gave never seen better defensive off guard. Although I have not seen enough Tony Allen I seriously doubt that Tony Allen was as good as Jordan even though I accept that Tony Allen was also an all time elite defender.

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1792345
That project had Jordan as the best off guard defender and Allen as 3rd best.

I was paying attention to the 2008-2010 Celtics but I mostly did not see the 2011-2014 Grizzlies

The Warriors shot 7%(yes, seven percent)from 3 when guarded by Tony Allen in the 15 WCSF.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

I don't care how bad Tony Allen's offense was, if he was as good on defense as Jordan when Jordan was focoused on defense then Tony Allen would have played more minutes for the Celtics. I got a nice look at 33 year old Tony Allen vs "my" 2015 Warriors. Tony did not look that special and did not have much impact on Klay and Curry but then Tony was 33.

I don't agree with the people who dthink Jordan was not a GOAT level one on one defender. Jordan paced himself because he had to carry the offense. When Jordan went full throttle on defense I gave never seen better defensive off guard. Although I have not seen enough Tony Allen I seriously doubt that Tony Allen was as good as Jordan even though I accept that Tony Allen was also an all time elite defender.

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1792345
That project had Jordan as the best off guard defender and Allen as 3rd best.

I was paying attention to the 2008-2010 Celtics but I mostly did not see the 2011-2014 Grizzlies

The Warriors shot 7%(yes, seven percent)from 3 when guarded by Tony Allen in the 15 WCSF.

The 7% number looks wrong because the Warriors guards shot well against the Grizzlies.

I forgot who Tony Allen guarded. If Conley, Courtney Lee and Tony Allen start, (3 guards) who guards Sf Harrison Barnes?

I would want my best defender on Curry, but Klay is sort of big for Conley to guard him.

Curry shot 3s at 41%
Klay shot 3s at 47%
Barbosa shot 3 at 67%
Iguodala shot 3s at 48%
Harrison Barnes shot 3s at 25%
Draymond shot 3s at 26%

[ShotCreator]

I don't care how bad Tony Allen's offense was, if he was as good on defense as Jordan when Jordan was focoused on defense then Tony Allen would have played more minutes for the Celtics. I got a nice look at 33 year old Tony Allen vs "my" 2015 Warriors. Tony did not look that special and did not have much impact on Klay and Curry but then Tony was 33.

I don't agree with the people who dthink Jordan was not a GOAT level one on one defender. Jordan paced himself because he had to carry the offense. When Jordan went full throttle on defense I gave never seen better defensive off guard. Although I have not seen enough Tony Allen I seriously doubt that Tony Allen was as good as Jordan even though I accept that Tony Allen was also an all time elite defender.

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1792345
That project had Jordan as the best off guard defender and Allen as 3rd best.

I was paying attention to the 2008-2010 Celtics but I mostly did not see the 2011-2014 Grizzlies

The Warriors shot 7%(yes, seven percent)from 3 when guarded by Tony Allen in the 15 WCSF.

The 7% number looks wrong because the Warriors guards shot well against the Grizzlies.

I forgot who Tony Allen guarded. If Conley, Courtney Lee and Tony Allen start, (3 guards) who guards Sf Harrison Barnes?

I would want my best defender on Curry, but Klay is sort of big for Conley to guard him.

Curry shot 3s at 41%
Klay shot 3s at 47%
Barbosa shot 3 at 67%
Iguodala shot 3s at 48%
Harrison Barnes shot 3s at 25%
Draymond shot 3s at 26%

The number isn’t wrong.

The Warriors shot 14/29 on Conley.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

The Warriors shot 7%(yes, seven percent)from 3 when guarded by Tony Allen in the 15 WCSF.

The 7% number looks wrong because the Warriors guards shot well against the Grizzlies.

I forgot who Tony Allen guarded. If Conley, Courtney Lee and Tony Allen start, (3 guards) who guards Sf Harrison Barnes?

I would want my best defender on Curry, but Klay is sort of big for Conley to guard him.

Curry shot 3s at 41%
Klay shot 3s at 47%
Barbosa shot 3 at 67%
Iguodala shot 3s at 48%
Harrison Barnes shot 3s at 25%
Draymond shot 3s at 26%

The number isn’t wrong.

The Warriors shot 14/29 on Conley.

Can you give me a link to where I can see the stats broken down that way?
After I subtract out the shots vs Cononly the team is still shooting 37 percent.
What did they shoot against Courtney Lee.
How many shots 3 point shots did they shoot against Tony Allen? Was it mostly Harrison Barnes shooting against Tony Allen?

Warriors shooting numbers look fine game 1
Shooting numbers down game 2 and 3.
The don't defend Tony Allen Bogut on Allen change happens game 4 and 6. Allen misses game 5 and barely plays in game 6.

[Texas Chuck]

Always take the faster player.

this seems like a terribly flawed approach. On ball defense isn't really about speed but much more about quickness and ability to move one's feet something no one should ever question about TA here. Now if we are talking about guarding Steph Curry where you are chasing him around screens then maybe you do take Jordan over Tony Allen. But I'm not worried about how fast Allen can run here much at all.

[CIB24]

You saw that commercial. Jordan couldn't stop himself. Yeah, we all remember it.

Ah, just had a wave of nostalgia.....

Young MJ: "I could've dunked it."
Old MJ: "You should've dunked it."

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