What did Bill Russell have to do to be seen as the GOAT?

[70sFan]

Yes, the 1990s were a example of what the game in the 60s would've been like if there were more than like 3-4 players on the court at a time athletic enough to play above the rim. It is a fact that more people watch basketball now and that the sport is played by the best athletes from around the world rather than just a certain quota of black Americans with the remainder of the roster spots filled out by white Americans.

We've got 3 examples of LeBron leaving Finals teams and those teams sucking much worse than the Celtics did, so not sure what your point is there.

1990s NBA is much different than 1960s NBA in terms of rules, conditions and equipment. Players from 1990s wouldn't play alike in 1960s. That's clear for anybody who knows basic things about NBA history and evolution.

We've got only 2 examples of that (Heat in 2015 which didn't suck more than 1970 Celtics and Cavs in 2018) and my point is that James/Russell are among GOAT candidates and without them their teams wouldn't have made the playoffs probably. You himself just compared Russell to LeBron James, isn't it already GOAT standard? If he's compared to James, he has to be at least in top 10.

LOL do you even read or just take any opportunity to go into your pet argument of "things were so much better back in the day, get off my lawn." The title of this thread is "What did Bill Russell have to do to be seen as the GOAT?" That implies #1, not #4 or top 10.

I've never said things were much better back in the day. It's you who dom't understand what I'm saying.

Top 4 player ever definitely has a case for GOAT.

[nolang1]

1990s NBA is much different than 1960s NBA in terms of rules, conditions and equipment. Players from 1990s wouldn't play alike in 1960s. That's clear for anybody who knows basic things about NBA history and evolution.

We've got only 2 examples of that (Heat in 2015 which didn't suck more than 1970 Celtics and Cavs in 2018) and my point is that James/Russell are among GOAT candidates and without them their teams wouldn't have made the playoffs probably. You himself just compared Russell to LeBron James, isn't it already GOAT standard? If he's compared to James, he has to be at least in top 10.

LOL do you even read or just take any opportunity to go into your pet argument of "things were so much better back in the day, get off my lawn." The title of this thread is "What did Bill Russell have to do to be seen as the GOAT?" That implies #1, not #4 or top 10.

I've never said things were much better back in the day. It's you who dom't understand what I'm saying.

Top 4 player ever definitely has a case for GOAT.

From the OP:

That is the philosophical question asked here: what should Russell have done differently to be seen as a near unanimous GOAT, like say Babe Ruth?

In the previous GOAT listing, he went a very low placing 4th

Sheesh, a little reading goes a long way.

[70sFan]

LOL do you even read or just take any opportunity to go into your pet argument of "things were so much better back in the day, get off my lawn." The title of this thread is "What did Bill Russell have to do to be seen as the GOAT?" That implies #1, not #4 or top 10.

I've never said things were much better back in the day. It's you who dom't understand what I'm saying.

Top 4 player ever definitely has a case for GOAT.

From the OP:

That is the philosophical question asked here: what should Russell have done differently to be seen as a near unanimous GOAT, like say Babe Ruth?

In the previous GOAT listing, he went a very low placing 4th

Sheesh, a little reading goes a long way.

I've read it before, I just can't agree with that statement. Top 4 of all-time is definitely in GOAT teritory. Besides, Russell has probably the best case ever for the GOAT. Just because most casual fans appreciate scoring more than defense doesn't make Russell unworthy GOAT debates.

[nolang1]

I've never said things were much better back in the day. It's you who dom't understand what I'm saying.

Top 4 player ever definitely has a case for GOAT.

From the OP:

That is the philosophical question asked here: what should Russell have done differently to be seen as a near unanimous GOAT, like say Babe Ruth?

In the previous GOAT listing, he went a very low placing 4th

Sheesh, a little reading goes a long way.

I've read it before, I just can't agree with that statement. Top 4 of all-time is definitely in GOAT teritory. Besides, Russell has probably the best case ever for the GOAT. Just because most casual fans appreciate scoring more than defense doesn't make Russell unworthy GOAT debates.

So you're just going to ignore what was clearly stated and is actually being discussed to pretend as though being 4th and "in the discussion" is the same as being nearly unanimously #1. You seem to have a pretty casual understanding of the game yourself and mistake contrarianism for having unique insight.

[70sFan]

From the OP:





Sheesh, a little reading goes a long way.

I've read it before, I just can't agree with that statement. Top 4 of all-time is definitely in GOAT teritory. Besides, Russell has probably the best case ever for the GOAT. Just because most casual fans appreciate scoring more than defense doesn't make Russell unworthy GOAT debates.

So you're just going to ignore what was clearly stated and is actually being discussed to pretend as though being 4th and "in the discussion" is the same as being nearly unanimously #1. You seem to have a pretty casual understanding of the game yourself and mistake contrarianism for having unique insight.

Sorry, but you are not here to tell me whether I have casual understanding of the game or not. I'm here for almost 4 years and I don't care what you think about my level of understanding of the game. There's no point to discuss anymore, have a good time.

[Texas Chuck]

So you're just going to ignore what was clearly stated and is actually being discussed to pretend as though being 4th and "in the discussion" is the same as being nearly unanimously #1. You seem to have a pretty casual understanding of the game yourself and mistake contrarianism for having unique insight.

You seem to want to die on largely a semantic hill and be a jerk to a valued poster about it. What are you actually trying to achieve with this tack?

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Ideally the GOAT would clearly be the best player at his position during his era. Russell can't shake Wilt.

Jordan vs Hakeem is apples vs oranges. Guard play is more exciting. I will join the crowd and say Jordan is better than Hakeem but maybe the best center is always better than the best guard.

Era; I do have a problem with Russell's era. Some of those shots that Russell locked were way to blockable and never should have been shot. It was like the shooters did not fully understand what a shot blocker was. Refs made the players not travel and that made the ball handling look worse. You can't blame the refs for the bad outside shooting.

None of the other GOAT candidates were good but not great offensively. Even with me accepting Russell as the greatest defensive player I would like more offense.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Suppose I replace Capella on the Rockets with Russell. We change his face; nobody knows it is Russell. I figure the Rockets win the championship but I have doubts whether people perceive Russell as better than Harden.

[DatAsh]

Suppose I replace Capella on the Rockets with Russell. We change his face; nobody knows it is Russell. I figure the Rockets win the championship but I have doubts whether people perceive Russell as better than Harden.

I agree that's how it would be perceived this year, but what if Harden then goes to LA and the Rockets go on to 3 peat without him, while being so good defensively that the gap between first and second is bigger than the gap between second and average? That's more like the Russell situation. I think eventually people would start catch on to his value.

[Hal14]

Ideally the GOAT would clearly be the best player at his position during his era. Russell can't shake Wilt.

Not really.

Wilt and Russell happened to play the same position and in the same era. They shouldn't get penalized for that.

You say "Russell can't shake Wilt"...but in reality, it's one of the great debates in sports..."Who was better, Wilt or Russell?"

People have been debating it since the 60s and we're still debating it now in 2019...on this very forum...in the past week or 2, there have been strong arguments on both sides.

Russell had more team success...Wilt had better individual numbers.

Who was the better player..all time, is very debatable.

They happened to play the same position, in the same era.

They both have a case to be the GOAT..