Current 2019 Giannis vs peak Kobe Bryant

[Strepbacter]

Are we really acting like Kawhi's not a top 5 defender all-time

[MyUniBroDavis]

I feel people think kawhi is stopping him by himself and he isn’t. He just slows him down and makes him think and is really good at pushing him towards help or slowing him down enough until the help arrives

But giannis is so bad at reacting to help defense and that’s why Kobe definitely gets the nod here. Peak Kobe with today’s spacing would wreak havoc

[GSP]

I feel people think kawhi is stopping him by himself and he isn’t. He just slows him down and makes him think and is really good at pushing him towards help or slowing him down enough until the help arrives

But giannis is so bad at reacting to help defense and that’s why Kobe definitely gets the nod here. Peak Kobe with today’s spacing would wreak havoc

I dont think anyones pretending that Kawhi is doing this himself. Raptors have the best defensive depth of anyone by far. Theres no weak defender in their rotation and Ibaka, Marc, Kawhi and Siakam can all be reliable primary defenders on Giannis

[CodeBreaker]

Kobe wouldn't get benched in the last 2 mins of the game

[No-more-rings]

I feel people think kawhi is stopping him by himself and he isn’t. He just slows him down and makes him think and is really good at pushing him towards help or slowing him down enough until the help arrives

But giannis is so bad at reacting to help defense and that’s why Kobe definitely gets the nod here. Peak Kobe with today’s spacing would wreak havoc

I dont think anyones pretending that Kawhi is doing this himself. Raptors have the best defensive depth of anyone by far. Theres no weak defender in their rotation and Ibaka, Marc, Kawhi and Siakam can all be reliable primary defenders on Giannis

Are you ready to admit that Kawhi is likely better than Giannis though? I feel if they switched teams, the Bucks would be up in this series instead.

[iggymcfrack]

Peak Kobe >= peak Giannis offensively
Peak Giannis >>>> peak Kobe defensively

Seems like Giannis pretty easily

[Senior]

kinda think that kawhi is a good analogue for giannis vs kobe - both superior (maybe far superior?) defenders to kobe but a bit more flawed offensively despite incredible volume/efficiency. giannis can't shoot, kawhi's passing/playmaking is a bit suspect

[GSP]

I feel people think kawhi is stopping him by himself and he isn’t. He just slows him down and makes him think and is really good at pushing him towards help or slowing him down enough until the help arrives

But giannis is so bad at reacting to help defense and that’s why Kobe definitely gets the nod here. Peak Kobe with today’s spacing would wreak havoc

I dont think anyones pretending that Kawhi is doing this himself. Raptors have the best defensive depth of anyone by far. Theres no weak defender in their rotation and Ibaka, Marc, Kawhi and Siakam can all be reliable primary defenders on Giannis

Are you ready to admit that Kawhi is likely better than Giannis though? I feel if they switched teams, the Bucks would be up in this series instead.

Def open to the idea but im gonna wait till the playoffs are over.

[Jaivl]

Peak Kobe >= peak Giannis offensively
Peak Giannis >>>> peak Kobe defensively

Seems like Giannis pretty easily

You're probably missing a few >s on offense

[Gooner]

Peak Kobe >= peak Giannis offensively
Peak Giannis >>>> peak Kobe defensively

Seems like Giannis pretty easily

Sure.

[iggymcfrack]

Peak Kobe >= peak Giannis offensively
Peak Giannis >>>> peak Kobe defensively

Seems like Giannis pretty easily

You're probably missing a few >s on offense

In Kobe’s peak season (not his peak offensive season, but his peak all-around season where he played good defense as well), Kobe had 8.6 OWS and an OBPM of 4.7 in the regular season. This year, GIannis had 8.9 OWS and an OBPM of 5.7. Kobe had an OBPM of 6.8 in the playoffs that season (career high). Giannis has an OBPM of 4.7 this playoffs. I do think Kobe’s a better offensive player at peak, but it’s close enough that I’m not 100% sure. Like if they made a perfect computer simulation that could run player seasons 1000x in every possible situation, I think it’s probably 80% Kobe would do more for the offense, but I’m not positive he would.

On defense, it’s not even close. Kobe was a little bit above average defender at peak, maybe decently above average in the playoffs, but he was never a big impact guy on that end. Giannis is a MONSTER defensively. He’s as impactful as anyone who’s not a primary rim protector. There’s a huge gulf between the two on that end of the floor.

[Ooduwa]

I mean, you can go on about how awesome Giannis is defensively, but individual defense is less valuable than individual offense.

I.e. I can scheme a premier team defense without an A+ defensive guard, whereas it’s going to be difficult for my team to take and make shots at an elite clip in pressure situations if my best player has offensive mechanics as raw as Giannis’s.

I also feel you're leaning too heavily on stats to formulate your opinion because don't appreciate what makes ATG scorers like Kobe valuable in the post season. OWS and OBPM are effective in helping us determine or gauge a players impact within the context of his team, but they don't take into account Giannis struggles at the line, the absence of any counters once he's denied his primary option, the fact that he doesn't have a post game or a pull up jumper, etc. So when you suggest that they're similarly capable on offense because their OWS and OBPM's were comparable over a given season, it's disingenuous, as it's clear to most reasonable observers that Kobe was far more advanced on that end.

[Jiminy Glick]

I'm sure peak Kobe would have trouble scoring against Kawhi also. As far as who I'd rather have on my team give me Giannis, he is similar to a taller Wade.

[No-more-rings]

I'm sure peak Kobe would have trouble scoring against Kawhi also. As far as who I'd rather have on my team give me Giannis, he is similar to a taller Wade.

Giannis was nothing like Wade on offense.

[Jiminy Glick]

I'm sure peak Kobe would have trouble scoring against Kawhi also. As far as who I'd rather have on my team give me Giannis, he is similar to a taller Wade.

Giannis was nothing like Wade on offense.

Why? 2006 Wade loved to primarily attack the basket and his jumper wasn't that good. Both used their freakish athleticism to get to the rim. This is similar to Erving as well.

[No-more-rings]

I'm sure peak Kobe would have trouble scoring against Kawhi also. As far as who I'd rather have on my team give me Giannis, he is similar to a taller Wade.

Giannis was nothing like Wade on offense.

Why? 2006 Wade loved to primarily attack the basket and his jumper wasn't that good. Both used their freakish athleticism to get to the rim. This is similar to Erving as well.

Wade had a midrange game, had much better footwork with a array of moves like a floater, eurostep, pumpfake etc. Also a much better playmaker than Giannis. They aren’t alike on offense.

[Jiminy Glick]

Giannis was nothing like Wade on offense.

Why? 2006 Wade loved to primarily attack the basket and his jumper wasn't that good. Both used their freakish athleticism to get to the rim. This is similar to Erving as well.

Wade had a midrange game, had much better footwork with a array of moves like a floater, eurostep, pumpfake etc. Also a much better playmaker than Giannis. They aren’t alike on offense.

Yes they are, check out 10-16 ft range efficiency and 16-3pt range efficicency at age 24. Though Wade was better 3-10 ft and yes he was a better passer. Both are very efficienct scorers that are lethal when driving to the basket and in transition. Wade like Giannis was primarily looking to get to the basket.

[CodeBreaker]

I'm sure peak Kobe would have trouble scoring against Kawhi also. As far as who I'd rather have on my team give me Giannis, he is similar to a taller Wade.

Giannis was nothing like Wade on offense.

Why? 2006 Wade loved to primarily attack the basket and his jumper wasn't that good. Both used their freakish athleticism to get to the rim. This is similar to Erving as well.

You're crazy. One of the reasons Wade was so amazing in 06 especially in the Finals was his mid-range jumper

[ardee]

I would take Kobe. '08 Kobe vs '19 Giannis in the RS had similar impact, slight edge to Kobe maybe, but his game is certainly more resilient in the Playoffs. The Kawhi argument is irrelevant because Kobe has smoked elite wing defenders in the Playoffs for a living, from Christie to Bowen to Artest to Battier to AK.

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[70sFan]

I would take Kobe. '08 Kobe vs '19 Giannis in the RS had similar impact, slight edge to Kobe maybe, but his game is certainly more resilient in the Playoffs. The Kawhi argument is irrelevant because Kobe has smoked elite wing defenders in the Playoffs for a living, from Christie to Bowen to Artest to Battier to AK.

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Kobe didn't have better series against 2008 Celtics than Giannis against the Raptors though, Giannis at least has monster defensive impact in that series.