Top 30 Players in the NBA

[FlyingArrow]

Tier 1 is huge right now with so much debate that nobody actually knows who the best player in the NBA is right now.

Tier One
1-6. LeBron James, Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, James Harden, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Kawhi Leonard

Tier Two
7-11. Joel Embiid, Anthony Davis, Nikola Jokic, Paul George, Damian Lillard

Tier Three
12-20. Draymond Green, Klay Thompson, Rudy Gobert, Kemba Walker, Russell Westbrook, Kyrie Irving, Victor Oladipo, Jimmy Butler, Bradley Beal

Tier Four
21-30. Ben Simmons, Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, Al Horford, LaMarcus Aldrige, KAT, CJ McCollum, Nikola Vucevic, Pascal Siakim, Khris Middleton

[eminence]

Who is Green?

Obviously Gerald. /s

Draymond in case you were serious.

You believe Draymond Green is a top three player?

Sure thing. Generational defender and a strong 2nd guy on offense.

[Ooduwa]

Obviously Gerald. /s

Draymond in case you were serious.

You believe Draymond Green is a top three player?

Sure thing. Generational defender and a strong 2nd guy on offense.

You may be onto something.




/s

[FlyingArrow]

Obviously Gerald. /s

Draymond in case you were serious.

You believe Draymond Green is a top three player?

Sure thing. Generational defender and a strong 2nd guy on offense.

It's quite a luxury to have Kevin Durant as your 3rd option on offense.

[Ooduwa]

You believe Draymond Green is a top three player?

Sure thing. Generational defender and a strong 2nd guy on offense.

It's quite a luxury to have Kevin Durant as your 3rd option on offense.

Agreed. Never expected Draymond to become an ATG on offense. Everyone should try to model their games after his, backpack and all.

[eminence]

You believe Draymond Green is a top three player?

Sure thing. Generational defender and a strong 2nd guy on offense.

It's quite a luxury to have Kevin Durant as your 3rd option on offense.

They obviously don't use Dray as #2 with Curry/KD both on the roster, I'm sure other teams would kill for that luxury. Seems to me he's still very capable of doing so, could be wrong, but not how I see it.

[Ooduwa]

Sure thing. Generational defender and a strong 2nd guy on offense.

It's quite a luxury to have Kevin Durant as your 3rd option on offense.

They obviously don't use Dray as #2 with Curry/KD both on the roster, I'm sure other teams would kill for that luxury. Seems to me he's still very capable of doing so, could be wrong, but not how I see it.

You should tweet Steve and let him know he’s doing things wrong. I’m sure he’d be receptive to your suggestions.

[HBK_Kliq_33]

1. Kawhi
2. Curry
3. Harden
4. Giannis
5. Durant
6. Lebron
7. Embiid
8. Jokic
9. Davis
10. George
11. Draymond
12. Butler
13. Gobert
14. Lillard
15. Irving
16. Westbrook

Those 16 I'm pretty set on right now but than after that it gets difficult.

[nolang1]

Would Embiid be in that top tier of players if the Sixers had been beaten by fewer than 12 points in the 3 minutes he was on the bench in game 7?

[eminence]

It's quite a luxury to have Kevin Durant as your 3rd option on offense.

They obviously don't use Dray as #2 with Curry/KD both on the roster, I'm sure other teams would kill for that luxury. Seems to me he's still very capable of doing so, could be wrong, but not how I see it.

You should tweet Steve and let him know he’s doing things wrong. I’m sure he’d be receptive to your suggestions.

Not sure what you're reading at this point, but have yourself a lovely day.

[Pipp33]

Capela is way too high. Who would take Capela over Griffin?

Capela does not belong anywhere near the top 30. To have him on there and Simmons as an HM is crazy (and yes I'm aware of Simmons issues). Griffin, Mitchell, Walker, Conley are all much better players than Capela

Capela is key piece to Houston’s philosophy and play style, especially defensively, where he’s able to switch onto guards & wings more effectively than most any other big in the league(take a look at how well he’s defended Steph, for example, over the last two years). I value what he brings to the Rockets far more than I value Blake or Mitchell’s abilities as primary options, though I can understand why someone would prefer them.

Rockets haven’t been as good as they’ve been the last two years solely because of James Harden and Chris Paul. Capela has been paramount to their success.

I understand how important he is to their system, but he is not the only big man in the league that could fill that role. He offers very little on offense, as he's not a great passer and can't create a shot for himself. Yes, he can get up for finishing at the rim of Harden and CP3 and is a good defender, but not great.

[giordunk]

Yea some of these changes in rankings are super reactionary... If Sixers won game 7 Kawhi would be a lot lower, same with Draymond if KD didn't get hurt... But it's good to take in new info.

[Ooduwa]

Reworked my list based given people's feedback.

Tier 1

1. Kevin Durant
2. Kawhi Leonard
3. Stephen Curry

Tier 2

4. James Harden
5. Giannis Antetokounmpo
6. Nikola Jokić
7. Joel Embiid
8. LeBron James
9. Rudy Gobert
10. Anthony Davis

Tier 3

11. Kyrie Irving
12. Damian Lillard
13. Paul George
14. LeMarcus Aldridge
15. Jimmy Butler
16. Chris Paul
17. Russell Westbrook
18. Karl Anthony Towns
19. Nikola Vucevic
20. Blake Griffin

Tier 4

21. Klay Thompson
22. Kemba Walker
23. Bradley Beal
24. Al Horford
25. CJ Mcollum
26. Draymond Green
27. Clint Capela
28. Andre Drummond
29. Demar Derozan
30. Pascal Siakam

HM: Jusuf Nurkic, Ben Simmons, Donovan Mitchell, Jamal Murray, Malcolm Brogdon


Also posted in the OP.

[iggymcfrack]

Tier 1
1. Kawhi
2. Giannis
3. LeBron
4. AD

Tier 2
5. Harden
6. Curry
7. Durant
8. Embiid
9. Jokic
10. George

Tier 3
11. Lillard
12. Lowry
13. Butler
14. Dray
15. Gobert
16. Paul
17. Jrue
18. Towns

Tier 4
19. Horford
20. Siakam
21. Kemba
22. Middleton
23. Blake

Tier 5
24. Kyrie
25. Vucevic
26. Gallo
27. Gasol
28. Mitchell
29. Westbrook
30. Simmons

[SlowPaced]

Tier 1 (Upper Superstars)

Kawhi Leonard
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Kevin Durant
LeBron James
Stephen Curry

Tier 2 (Lesser Superstars)

James Harden
Anthony Davis

Tier 3 (Almost Superstars)

Joel Embiid
Nikola Jokic
Damian Lillard
Paul George

Tier 4 (Upper Stars)

Russell Westbrook
Jimmy Butler
Kyrie Irving
Rudy Gobert
Draymond Green
Victor Oladipo

Tier 5 (Lesser Stars)

Kyle Lowry
Chris Paul
Karl-Anthony Towns

Tier 6 (Upper All-Stars)

Kemba Walker
Bradley Beal
Blake Griffin
Klay Thompson

Tier 7 (Lesser All-Stars)

Al Horford
Khris Middleton
Nikola Vucevic
LaMarcus Aldridge

Tier 8 (Fringe All-Stars)

C.J. McCollum
Ben Simmons
Pascal Siakam
DeMar DeRozan
Mike Conley
Jrue Holiday
John Wall

Looks about right for now.

[nolang1]

Embiid was 4th in RPM and 3rd in PIPM this season. Based on that and the 76ers playing Toronto closer than Milwaukee with Embiid having a +19 on-court net rating during the series, I don't think you could put Kawhi or Giannis in a tier above him. He's pretty plainly right there at the top of the league in terms of his on-court impact, and I don't see a reason he's not the top tier of players outside of some generalized future injury scare factor (for this season, he played more minutes than Kawhi, AD, and LeBron so you can't knock him too much for his availability) or because people just ding him for the aesthetics of his game.

[trex_8063]

Spoiler:

Reworked my list based given people's feedback.

Tier 1

1. Kevin Durant
2. Kawhi Leonard
3. Stephen Curry

Tier 2

4. James Harden
5. Giannis Antetokounmpo
6. Nikola Jokić
7. Joel Embiid
8. LeBron James
9. Rudy Gobert
10. Anthony Davis

Tier 3

11. Kyrie Irving
12. Damian Lillard
13. Paul George
14. LeMarcus Aldridge
15. Jimmy Butler
16. Chris Paul
17. Russell Westbrook
18. Karl Anthony Towns
19. Nikola Vucevic
20. Blake Griffin

Tier 4

21. Klay Thompson
22. Kemba Walker
23. Bradley Beal
24. Al Horford
25. CJ Mcollum
26. Draymond Green
27. Clint Capela
28. Andre Drummond
29. Demar Derozan
30. Pascal Siakam

HM: Jusuf Nurkic, Ben Simmons, Donovan Mitchell, Jamal Murray, Malcolm Brogdon


Also posted in the OP.

I'll repeat this suggestion/question.....

Eric Bledsoe: 19.3 PER, .173 WS/48, +3.5 BPM, +11 net rating, +3.68 RPM
Malcolm Brogdon: 17.8 PER, .171 WS/48, +1.5 BPM, +13 net rating, +1.81 RPM

Why does Brogdon get an HM and Bledsoe doesn't?

[Ooduwa]

I'll repeat this suggestion/question.....

Eric Bledsoe: 19.3 PER, .173 WS/48, +3.5 BPM, +11 net rating, +3.68 RPM
Malcolm Brogdon: 17.8 PER, .171 WS/48, +1.5 BPM, +13 net rating, +1.81 RPM

Why does Brogdon get an HM and Bledsoe doesn't?

Because basketball isn't a trading card game where having higher numbers thereby makes you a better player than another by default. I'm sure you could sub Klay for Brogdon in your comparison and Bledsoe would maintain most of if not all of his statistical advantages, but how many take Bledsoe over Klay if they were trying to build a contender?

As for why I value Brogdon more than Bledsoe? His game is better suited for the post season, and brings more value to a team competing for championships. He's bigger and has a lower center of gravity, so it's easier for him to switch across multiple positions defensively. He's also a much better shooter, plays with more poise under pressure, and generally makes better decisions with the basketball.

On top of that, in the most important games of the Bucks season Bledsoe was largely a net negative for his team: 10 ppg shooting 29% from the field and 17% from three, for a ts% of 39% / 88 Ortg / 111Drtg / -.04 net rtg. The Raptors left him open as a matter of scheme to overload on Giannis, daring him to shoot, but he wasn't good enough to make the defense pay. Those rare times that he did get to the rim he struggled to finish, and was ultimately taken off the court in high leverage situations for George Hill, who also outplayed him.

[bledredwine]

You believe Draymond Green is a top three player?

Sure thing. Generational defender and a strong 2nd guy on offense.

You may be onto something.


/s

WHAT IS HAPPENING

[trex_8063]

I'll repeat this suggestion/question.....

Eric Bledsoe: 19.3 PER, .173 WS/48, +3.5 BPM, +11 net rating, +3.68 RPM
Malcolm Brogdon: 17.8 PER, .171 WS/48, +1.5 BPM, +13 net rating, +1.81 RPM

Why does Brogdon get an HM and Bledsoe doesn't?

Because basketball isn't a trading card game where having higher numbers thereby makes you a better player than another by default. I'm sure you could sub Klay for Brogdon in your comparison and Bledsoe would maintain most of if not all of his statistical advantages, but how many take Bledsoe over Klay if they were trying to build a contender?

wrt the bolded, true. Though an individual could state any opinion (and we've seen some doosies [not saying Brogdon>Bledsoe is one of them, btw]), but we're sometimes not willing to take something as a truth because some guy we don't know said so on the internet. Sometimes [all times] some supporting arguments go a long way toward validating an opinion. Those supportive arguments can come in many forms, though when in a hurry the numbers are both convenient and the most objective.

And I was only asking, btw.

Oh and fwiw, Klay Thompson is [imo] more of an exception rather than the rule wrt how his advanced rate metrics don't seem to well-align with his actual player quality.......to the degree that we even had a recent thread asking why most of his advanced metrics seem to undersell his quality as a player.

As for why I value Brogdon more than Bledsoe? His game is better suited for the post season, and brings more value to a team competing for championships. He's bigger and has a lower center of gravity, so it's easier for him to switch across multiple positions defensively. He's also a much better shooter, plays with more poise under pressure, and generally makes better decisions with the basketball.

Fair enough. Though I might suggest that you could be drawing broad conclusions based on a pretty tiny sample size. I mean, he seemed to out-perform Bledsoe in this year's playoffs, but his full playoff sample this year was 7 games. Look at each of his last two seasons in the playoffs, though; outside of this year (again: just 7 games) he doesn't exactly have the historical resume to suggest his game actually is well-suited to the post-season.

I also tend to incorporate the respective rs performances to a higher degree both for reasons of sample size, but also because [within player comparisons] the larger point for me is to compare them to all of their professional peers.....not just a handful of them.

On top of that, in the most important games of the Bucks season Bledsoe was largely a net negative for his team: 10 ppg shooting 29% from the field and 17% from three, for a ts% of 39% / 88 Ortg / 111Drtg / -.04 net rtg.

So? Basketball isn't a trading card game where having higher numbers thereby makes you a better player than another by default.
Just teasing; but see? The numbers can make for effective argumentation.