2019 NBA Offseason Discussion

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Re: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion 

Post#501 » by E-Balla » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:55 am

eminence wrote:
E-Balla wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:
I assume you mean the Clippers because they are generally who is getting talked about as the favorite. I don't think it's easy to see exactly how good the Clippers will be though, mostly for the reason that it's always uncertain with a new pairing. But then you get into Kawhi skipping chunks of the regular season and George coming off of surgeries.

If they add Tyson Chandler and PG plays at least like his standard level (instead of last year's level) I think they're just fine personally. Lou, PG, Kawhi, Harrell can make for a good offense that can get tough buckets and their defensive lineups should be among the best.


I think Chandler went to the Rockets.

Big weakness then. They have no true C on the roster even.
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Re: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion 

Post#502 » by Dr Spaceman » Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:26 am

Basileus777 wrote:
limbo wrote:
Basileus777 wrote:It's also easy to see their offense not being good enough in the postseason. Tobias Harris is their best ball handler and half-court creator, that's more than a bit concerning. They have too many questions on offense to be considered the title favorite.


Simmons might not be able to shoot, but come on, saying he's a worse ball handler and half-court creator than Harris is a bit too disrespectful, don't you think? Also, have we forgotten how huge of a role Horford played for the Celtics as far as being a playmaking semi-hub for their half court offense? Josh Richardson had 4.2/1.6 AST/TO ratio last season, he gives you some type of option, definitely better than Harris.

It's not. Simmons isn't much of an offensive player in the half-court at all. He can't run a PNR or create for his teammates in the half-court, he's just very limited there. He spent most of the postseason hovering around the dunker spot in half-court situations for a reason. People talk about Simmons' offensive skill deficiencies like they only hurt him off the ball, but they really limit him even with the ball in his hands. It's why he shouldn't be the main creating guard on a team, he's doesn't have the skillset of a point guard. But Philly doubled down on forcing Simmons to play a role that he probably shouldn't.

Philly just doesn't have perimeter players that can create offense at a championship level. Harris is a decent PNR player, but only as a scorer. Richardson is a nice complementary player, but I find it hard to see it being enough, even with their bully ball and hand-off game. Getting Horford was a nice recovery after Butler snubbed them, but they've still downgraded their roster from last season.


Yup. In crunch time Simmons was sitting in the dunker spot while Butler ran the offense. Philly does not have an NBA playoff level offense initiator at this point. Possible Simmons grows into it.
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Re: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion 

Post#503 » by Basileus777 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:15 am

Dr Spaceman wrote:
Basileus777 wrote:
limbo wrote:
Simmons might not be able to shoot, but come on, saying he's a worse ball handler and half-court creator than Harris is a bit too disrespectful, don't you think? Also, have we forgotten how huge of a role Horford played for the Celtics as far as being a playmaking semi-hub for their half court offense? Josh Richardson had 4.2/1.6 AST/TO ratio last season, he gives you some type of option, definitely better than Harris.

It's not. Simmons isn't much of an offensive player in the half-court at all. He can't run a PNR or create for his teammates in the half-court, he's just very limited there. He spent most of the postseason hovering around the dunker spot in half-court situations for a reason. People talk about Simmons' offensive skill deficiencies like they only hurt him off the ball, but they really limit him even with the ball in his hands. It's why he shouldn't be the main creating guard on a team, he's doesn't have the skillset of a point guard. But Philly doubled down on forcing Simmons to play a role that he probably shouldn't.

Philly just doesn't have perimeter players that can create offense at a championship level. Harris is a decent PNR player, but only as a scorer. Richardson is a nice complementary player, but I find it hard to see it being enough, even with their bully ball and hand-off game. Getting Horford was a nice recovery after Butler snubbed them, but they've still downgraded their roster from last season.


Yup. In crunch time Simmons was sitting in the dunker spot while Butler ran the offense. Philly does not have an NBA playoff level offense initiator at this point. Possible Simmons grows into it.


Maybe he grows into it, but it sure feels like Philly is trying to force a square peg into a round hole. Simmons should be in a Draymond Green sort of role as a secondary playmaker in the frontcourt taking advantage of what the primary ballhandler does, not a point guard expected to break down a defense. I'm more interested in seeing what Simmons does as an initial screener than an initiator. He's a really talented player, they are just putting him in a position where his limitations are maximally exposed.
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Re: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion 

Post#504 » by Dr Spaceman » Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:22 am

Basileus777 wrote:
Dr Spaceman wrote:
Basileus777 wrote:It's not. Simmons isn't much of an offensive player in the half-court at all. He can't run a PNR or create for his teammates in the half-court, he's just very limited there. He spent most of the postseason hovering around the dunker spot in half-court situations for a reason. People talk about Simmons' offensive skill deficiencies like they only hurt him off the ball, but they really limit him even with the ball in his hands. It's why he shouldn't be the main creating guard on a team, he's doesn't have the skillset of a point guard. But Philly doubled down on forcing Simmons to play a role that he probably shouldn't.

Philly just doesn't have perimeter players that can create offense at a championship level. Harris is a decent PNR player, but only as a scorer. Richardson is a nice complementary player, but I find it hard to see it being enough, even with their bully ball and hand-off game. Getting Horford was a nice recovery after Butler snubbed them, but they've still downgraded their roster from last season.


Yup. In crunch time Simmons was sitting in the dunker spot while Butler ran the offense. Philly does not have an NBA playoff level offense initiator at this point. Possible Simmons grows into it.


Maybe he grows into it, but it sure feels like Philly is trying to force a square peg into a round hole. Simmons should be in a Draymond Green sort of role as a secondary playmaker in the frontcourt taking advantage of what the primary ballhandler does, not a point guard expected to break down a defense. He's a really talented player, they are just putting him in a position where his limitations are maximally exposed.


I’ve advocated him playing the 4 since his rookie season. It’s the best fit offensively and defensively. He can hang out around the basket and wreak havoc as a screener with his ability to drive and pass.

I remember getting major pushback because they had that run with Embiid hurt two seasons ago just before the playoffs and I was telling people to slow down because we still don’t know what position Simmons plays long term and got a lot of “you serious? He’s a point guard!” Well no, not with these deficiencies he’s not.
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Re: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion 

Post#505 » by E-Balla » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:08 am

Dr Spaceman wrote:
Basileus777 wrote:
Dr Spaceman wrote:
Yup. In crunch time Simmons was sitting in the dunker spot while Butler ran the offense. Philly does not have an NBA playoff level offense initiator at this point. Possible Simmons grows into it.


Maybe he grows into it, but it sure feels like Philly is trying to force a square peg into a round hole. Simmons should be in a Draymond Green sort of role as a secondary playmaker in the frontcourt taking advantage of what the primary ballhandler does, not a point guard expected to break down a defense. He's a really talented player, they are just putting him in a position where his limitations are maximally exposed.


I’ve advocated him playing the 4 since his rookie season. It’s the best fit offensively and defensively. He can hang out around the basket and wreak havoc as a screener with his ability to drive and pass.

I remember getting major pushback because they had that run with Embiid hurt two seasons ago just before the playoffs and I was telling people to slow down because we still don’t know what position Simmons plays long term and got a lot of “you serious? He’s a point guard!” Well no, not with these deficiencies he’s not.

I think he is a PG but only for teams where he's surrounded by shooters (say last year's team with Horford instead of Embiid). He needs a team where he can be the power big when the ball isn't in his hands and have 4 shooters otherwise. Even his rookie season I was talking about how different his production was with different lineups. Outside of those 2 very specific roles he's a clear negative offensively.
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Re: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion 

Post#506 » by Dr Spaceman » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:43 pm

E-Balla wrote:
Dr Spaceman wrote:
Basileus777 wrote:
Maybe he grows into it, but it sure feels like Philly is trying to force a square peg into a round hole. Simmons should be in a Draymond Green sort of role as a secondary playmaker in the frontcourt taking advantage of what the primary ballhandler does, not a point guard expected to break down a defense. He's a really talented player, they are just putting him in a position where his limitations are maximally exposed.


I’ve advocated him playing the 4 since his rookie season. It’s the best fit offensively and defensively. He can hang out around the basket and wreak havoc as a screener with his ability to drive and pass.

I remember getting major pushback because they had that run with Embiid hurt two seasons ago just before the playoffs and I was telling people to slow down because we still don’t know what position Simmons plays long term and got a lot of “you serious? He’s a point guard!” Well no, not with these deficiencies he’s not.

I think he is a PG but only for teams where he's surrounded by shooters (say last year's team with Horford instead of Embiid). He needs a team where he can be the power big when the ball isn't in his hands and have 4 shooters otherwise. Even his rookie season I was talking about how different his production was with different lineups. Outside of those 2 very specific roles he's a clear negative offensively.

Yeah as with any good playmaker he thrives surrounded by shooting. The problem is that approach isn’t super versatile and doesn’t work well with other talented players. He’s not really a player who can share the ball because of his deficiencies and as such it seems like it will be a struggling to fit talented enough players around him to ever field a contender.
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Re: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion 

Post#507 » by DTrehus5 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:52 pm

Thoughts on which new duo in the NBA is best? My opinions on them..

1. Kawhi and PG - I give them the edge as both are pretty much smack dab in the middle of their primes, are both extremely good 2 way players, and each came of career best seasons.
2. LeBron and AD - If this poll was 2 years ago they'd be number 1 without discussion. But LeBron always seems to defy father time, we'll see if he can continue to do so.
3. Kyrie and KD - A healthy KD is the best player on the planet. Healthy KD and Kyrie duo will be extremely dangerous, and I think will be favorites to win the title in 2021, given the Nets depth and ability to get the most out of their roster.
4. Russ and Harden - I see their play styles clashing, with Russ struggling to fit into Houston's 3 happy offense.

My apologies if I'm missing one, the morning is still early...
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Re: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion 

Post#508 » by Krodis » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:41 pm

It's optimistic to think KD will ever really be healthy again. I don't think the Nets are that scary at all, even when he comes back.

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Re: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion 

Post#509 » by The Explorer » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:50 pm

DTrehus5 wrote:Thoughts on which new duo in the NBA is best? My opinions on them..

1. Kawhi and PG - I give them the edge as both are pretty much smack dab in the middle of their primes, are both extremely good 2 way players, and each came of career best seasons.
2. LeBron and AD - If this poll was 2 years ago they'd be number 1 without discussion. But LeBron always seems to defy father time, we'll see if he can continue to do so.
3. Kyrie and KD - A healthy KD is the best player on the planet. Healthy KD and Kyrie duo will be extremely dangerous, and I think will be favorites to win the title in 2021, given the Nets depth and ability to get the most out of their roster.
4. Russ and Harden - I see their play styles clashing, with Russ struggling to fit into Houston's 3 happy offense.

My apologies if I'm missing one, the morning is still early...


I have Kawhi/PG #1, then Harden/Westbrook #2. Brooklyn duo gets downgraded due to health and its not easy coming back from Achilles, it really is a devastating injury. Its unknown how KD will perform in 2020. Lakers get downgraded to because Lebron has not played defense in over 2 years now. Not to mention the age as well.
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Re: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion 

Post#510 » by DTrehus5 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:21 pm

Krodis wrote:It's optimistic to think KD will ever really be healthy again. I don't think the Nets are that scary at all, even when he comes back.

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An Achilles injury is definitely devastating, but I see KD coming back and averaging 25 no problem. With his offensive skillset, he doesn't need rely as heavily on his athleticism so II'd bet he comes back more gracefully than most.
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Re: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion 

Post#511 » by Doctor MJ » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:03 pm

DTrehus5 wrote:Thoughts on which new duo in the NBA is best? My opinions on them..

1. Kawhi and PG - I give them the edge as both are pretty much smack dab in the middle of their primes, are both extremely good 2 way players, and each came of career best seasons.
2. LeBron and AD - If this poll was 2 years ago they'd be number 1 without discussion. But LeBron always seems to defy father time, we'll see if he can continue to do so.
3. Kyrie and KD - A healthy KD is the best player on the planet. Healthy KD and Kyrie duo will be extremely dangerous, and I think will be favorites to win the title in 2021, given the Nets depth and ability to get the most out of their roster.
4. Russ and Harden - I see their play styles clashing, with Russ struggling to fit into Houston's 3 happy offense.

My apologies if I'm missing one, the morning is still early...


I think that all of the combos other than LeBron/AD are going to have to prove synergy.

The reality is that Kawhi & PG are both somewhat analogous to running backs in football. Yeah you can run a LeBron-like scheme around Kawhi and have some success, but not because he's a gifted passer.

Meanwhile Russ & Harden's have focused their games on being as much quarterbacks as possible in the sense that they make all the decisions on the court. Both have non-QB talents, but they are rusty, and both players have shown a disinclination to go back to less glamorous work.

LeBron is a quarterback and AD is a receiver. Simple. Should work. Should make things easier for both guys.

(Incidentally, I wouldn't bet on Kyrie period. It's within the realm of possibility that KD leads the Nets to the promised land, but it won't be because Kyrie was anything like an equal partner in the process, and I think KD would be wise to wake up to the reality that everyone else hooked up with a near-peer, and he hooked up with a blowhard that turns toxic easily.)
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Re: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion 

Post#512 » by Doctor MJ » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:06 pm

Krodis wrote:It's optimistic to think KD will ever really be healthy again. I don't think the Nets are that scary at all, even when he comes back.

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My general sense as well. Kyrie/KD coming to Brooklyn already had it's best moment - upstaging the Knicks, and proving that a superstar could take the Nets seriously. Were I the Nets now I'd of course be trying to make this work as well as possible, but they need to not delude themselves into thinking that it's any kind of a given they'll be a Top 5-ish team in the league at any point in the near future.
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Re: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion 

Post#513 » by cpower » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:09 pm

DTrehus5 wrote:Thoughts on which new duo in the NBA is best? My opinions on them..

1. Kawhi and PG - I give them the edge as both are pretty much smack dab in the middle of their primes, are both extremely good 2 way players, and each came of career best seasons.
2. LeBron and AD - If this poll was 2 years ago they'd be number 1 without discussion. But LeBron always seems to defy father time, we'll see if he can continue to do so.
3. Kyrie and KD - A healthy KD is the best player on the planet. Healthy KD and Kyrie duo will be extremely dangerous, and I think will be favorites to win the title in 2021, given the Nets depth and ability to get the most out of their roster.
4. Russ and Harden - I see their play styles clashing, with Russ struggling to fit into Houston's 3 happy offense.

My apologies if I'm missing one, the morning is still early...

Curry/Green.
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Re: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion 

Post#514 » by Colbinii » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:11 pm

cpower wrote:
DTrehus5 wrote:Thoughts on which new duo in the NBA is best? My opinions on them..

1. Kawhi and PG - I give them the edge as both are pretty much smack dab in the middle of their primes, are both extremely good 2 way players, and each came of career best seasons.
2. LeBron and AD - If this poll was 2 years ago they'd be number 1 without discussion. But LeBron always seems to defy father time, we'll see if he can continue to do so.
3. Kyrie and KD - A healthy KD is the best player on the planet. Healthy KD and Kyrie duo will be extremely dangerous, and I think will be favorites to win the title in 2021, given the Nets depth and ability to get the most out of their roster.
4. Russ and Harden - I see their play styles clashing, with Russ struggling to fit into Houston's 3 happy offense.

My apologies if I'm missing one, the morning is still early...

Curry/Green.


I would have Curry/Green in the top 3 as well.

It gets difficult to assess these as duos like Kawhi/George simply lack the elite playmaking and passing abilities most of these other duos possess.
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Re: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion 

Post#515 » by E-Balla » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:25 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:
Krodis wrote:It's optimistic to think KD will ever really be healthy again. I don't think the Nets are that scary at all, even when he comes back.

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My general sense as well. Kyrie/KD coming to Brooklyn already had it's best moment - upstaging the Knicks, and proving that a superstar could take the Nets seriously. Were I the Nets now I'd of course be trying to make this work as well as possible, but they need to not delude themselves into thinking that it's any kind of a given they'll be a Top 5-ish team in the league at any point in the near future.

Until 5 years and 60 games from KD from now when they look like the Knicks of old for throwing the future of the franchise into Kyrie and a 30 year old with an Achilles tear.

If I were the Nets and actually trying to win basketball I would've never even signed those two. I remember the last time everyone said Brooklyn upstaged NY making a move like this and they became the laughingstock to the league on that too (I called it then also).
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Re: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion 

Post#516 » by CBA » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:27 pm

Very interested in seeing where the Clippers and Rockets offenses rank next season.
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Re: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion 

Post#517 » by Doctor MJ » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:31 pm

E-Balla wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:
Krodis wrote:It's optimistic to think KD will ever really be healthy again. I don't think the Nets are that scary at all, even when he comes back.

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My general sense as well. Kyrie/KD coming to Brooklyn already had it's best moment - upstaging the Knicks, and proving that a superstar could take the Nets seriously. Were I the Nets now I'd of course be trying to make this work as well as possible, but they need to not delude themselves into thinking that it's any kind of a given they'll be a Top 5-ish team in the league at any point in the near future.

Until 5 years and 60 games from KD from now when they look like the Knicks of old for throwing the future of the franchise into Kyrie and a 30 year old with an Achilles tear.

If I were the Nets and actually trying to win basketball I would've never even signed those two. I remember the last time everyone said Brooklyn upstaged NY making a move like this and they became the laughingstock to the league on that too (I called it then also).


I don't disagree, but have to note that the Knicks would have done this if they could, and what they did instead doesn't fill me with confidence.
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Re: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion 

Post#518 » by E-Balla » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:40 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:
E-Balla wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:
My general sense as well. Kyrie/KD coming to Brooklyn already had it's best moment - upstaging the Knicks, and proving that a superstar could take the Nets seriously. Were I the Nets now I'd of course be trying to make this work as well as possible, but they need to not delude themselves into thinking that it's any kind of a given they'll be a Top 5-ish team in the league at any point in the near future.

Until 5 years and 60 games from KD from now when they look like the Knicks of old for throwing the future of the franchise into Kyrie and a 30 year old with an Achilles tear.

If I were the Nets and actually trying to win basketball I would've never even signed those two. I remember the last time everyone said Brooklyn upstaged NY making a move like this and they became the laughingstock to the league on that too (I called it then also).


I don't disagree, but have to note that the Knicks would have done this if they could, and what they did instead doesn't fill me with confidence.

They didn't offer KD a max contract or offer Kyrie a contract at all. The narrative they would've done this if they could've is one that comes from listening to SAS and not reports from Knicks beat reporters. All reports from the Knicks said once KD tore his achilles they were concerned with giving Kyrie a contract knowing he might be alone without KD. By the end of the season reports was that Kyrie wasn't even the top Celtics PG the Knicks wanted.

Nothing the Knicks have ever done since I've been paying attention to the league has instilled more confidence in me than what they just did, which was retool for another tank and kick the can instead of doing what the fans wanted and jumping the gun on a **** movie.
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Re: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion 

Post#519 » by eminence » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:22 am

Not quite as all in as E-Balla, but I don't like what the Net's have done at all. As of right now I think they're worse than they were last season, obviously if KD returns in fairly good form they'll be better off, but A) that's a moderate sized if and B) Even if he does I think they're still well short of contender status.
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Re: 2019 NBA Offseason Discussion 

Post#520 » by Fadeaway_J » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:53 am

eminence wrote:Not quite as all in as E-Balla, but I don't like what the Net's have done at all. As of right now I think they're worse than they were last season, obviously if KD returns in fairly good form they'll be better off, but A) that's a moderate sized if and B) Even if he does I think they're still well short of contender status.

Even with a completely healthy KD, I just can't get optimistic about a locker room led by him and Kyrie. :lol:

Having to sign DAJ for four years (and presumably start him over Allen) isn't great either.

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