Where do you rank Kevin Garnett all time?

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Kevin Garnett ranking

1-5
9
5%
6-10
28
16%
11-15
48
27%
16-20
37
21%
21+
54
31%
 
Total votes: 176

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Re: Where do you rank Kevin Garnett all time? 

Post#381 » by freethedevil » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:09 am

Colbinii wrote:
bledredwine wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
What do you mean by "most"?

It is quite obvious that people see things differently and the minority (KG as top 10) will be attacked and thus defend themselves moreso than people who view him as a similar caliber player as say...Charles Barkley.


Right, but ahead of any of the following-

Jordan KAJ Russell Bron Wilt Magic Bird Hakeem Shaq

is certifiably insane.


So people who know way more about basketball than you and whom have watched far more basketball than you are "insane" because they view a player you believe to be inferior to other players?

Some of the best posters on this board hold KG very highly. Some of the best posters on this board are not so high on KG. But the ones who disagree with you are insane.

Honestly, at some point we should stop humoring people who try and make "meta" points because we'r ejust validating their red herrings. They can't or won't address the actual arguments so they deflect with silly tangents like questioning what biases might be at play, or lecturing us on the tyranny of the unquanitfiable. 'Why does X% view it like this" is just another example of this. Not relevant, but an effective deflection.
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Re: Where do you rank Kevin Garnett all time? 

Post#382 » by wutevahung » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:05 pm

Zeitgeister wrote:
kendogg wrote:But the biggest knock on him is as a teammate. He's an extremely cancerous teammate that never got along with pretty much any of his teammates and even seemed to try to freeze them out at times. He's lucky to have barely gotten that 1 ring with the Celtics before the team fell apart. I liken him to someone like Jimmy Butler where yeah maybe you get lucky and keep him in line for a season but long term he is going to tear your team apart. Which is what KG did everywhere he went.


Butler was a team cancer in Minnesota by his second year and all but forced his way out of Minnesota. Kevin Garnett was here for 12 years, name another superstar in the past 30 years who endured more for one franchise. The two aren't that comparable.

He got into it with Rick Rickert, not really sure what it was about but he punched him, Rickert was a sympathy 2nd round pick that didn't even play for the Wolves. Garnett and Wally Z had a back and forth, don't know if there was any more to it than that. I know he was pretty insulting to Patrick O'Bryant. As far as Ray Allen, pretty sure Paul Pierce hated him too.

Garnett got along well with Paul Pierce, he still gets emotional about Malik Sealy, he was helping Rondo practice shooting after regular practice, Karl Towns dad had this to say:

“The best thing that happened to Karl-Anthony Towns was Kevin Garnett.”

Garnett was definitely a dominant personality and had high expectations of his teammates but he is also pretty obviously a strong leader much in the same way. This idea that he's "extremely cancerous" isn't fair.


The Knock on KG as a leader and teammate must be some type of revisionist history, because there never were any articles questioning him during the entirety of his career, and from my memory, was never seriously brought up and discussed on this board from 2005 (when I started browsing realgm more seriously) til recently from people who are obviously trying to discredit KG.
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Re: Where do you rank Kevin Garnett all time? 

Post#383 » by kendogg » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:09 pm

That's because the NBA would always try to squash any of that stuff that makes the league look bad. Just like all the stuff about Jordan (ban for gambling, all the ways he was a bad teammate and person). I don't think anyone on the Bulls liked Jordan. Same for KG and all his teammates. So yes you can be a winner and a bad teammate at the same time, but Jordan won in spite of being a bad teammate because he was so good and his teams were so stacked in the 90's with multiple HOF's sometimes even coming off the bench. I don't believe Jordan made his teammates better he just took the pressure off them. That's not the same thing. And it is also the biggest reason KG isn't a GOAT tier player. Not only because he's not an all-time great scorer or rim protector, but more because he's a bad teammate, and a similarly talented guy like Duncan looks like magnitudes better as a player because everyone around him plays better with him on the court. But all 3 together I think FIRMLY put KG a tier below those guys despite his colossal all-around talent.

I wish we got to see some of Pippen's prime years without Jordan (yes I know we did in 1994, but he really didn't have time to make that team his and I feel like he even knew that Jordan was coming back, plus they had a gaping hole at SG). Because I feel like Pippen's legacy might be very different if he wasn't in Jordan's shadow. If I were a GM in a fantasyland, I would start a team with Pippen over KG as a my key defensive and playmaking centerpiece. I think he's better in pretty much every way possible, other than the fact that KG can slide to center. Both are mediocre scorers for superstars, but that's fine just pair them with a more offensive minded star.
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Re: Where do you rank Kevin Garnett all time? 

Post#384 » by wutevahung » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:12 pm

kendogg wrote:That's because the NBA would always try to squash any of that stuff that makes the league look bad. Just like all the stuff about Jordan (ban for gambling, all the ways he was a bad teammate and person). I don't think anyone on the Bulls liked Jordan. Same for KG and all his teammates. So yes you can be a winner and a bad teammate at the same time, but Jordan won in spite of being a bad teammate because he was so good and his teams were so stacked in the 90's with multiple HOF's sometimes even coming off the bench. I don't believe Jordan made his teammates better he just took the pressure off them. That's not the same thing. And it is also the biggest reason KG isn't a GOAT tier player. Not only because he's not an all-time great scorer or rim protector, but more because he's a bad teammate, and a similarly talented guy like Duncan looks like magnitudes better as a player because everyone around him plays better with him on the court. But all 3 together I think FIRMLY put KG a tier below those guys despite his colossal all-around talent.

I wish we got to see some of Pippen's prime years without Jordan (yes I know we did in 1994, but he really didn't have time to make that team his and I feel like he even knew that Jordan was coming back, plus they had a gaping hole at SG). Because I feel like Pippen's legacy might be very different if he wasn't in Jordan's shadow. If I were a GM in a fantasyland, I would start a team with Pippen over KG as a my key defensive and playmaking centerpiece. I think he's better in pretty much every way possible, other than the fact that KG can slide to center. Both are mediocre scorers for superstars, but that's fine just pair them with a more offensive minded star.


Jordan's **** are well documented, especially by no, but that does not make him a bad leader.
Steve Jobs is also a well known ****, is he a bad leader?
Both of them got the best out of their teammates/subordinates and both achieved the pinnacles of success in their field. Seemed like good enough leaders to me.

Regarding KG, if you want to argue that he is a bad teammate or a bad leader, it is you who have the burden of proof, since it is impossible for us to disapprove your theory that all of stories that make KG look bad are squashed by the league.
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Re: Where do you rank Kevin Garnett all time? 

Post#385 » by kendogg » Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:46 am

Plenty of proof has already been given in this thread on KG already, and the other 2 on the first couple of pages. There is no need to write it out again for you. Jordan's case is already well documented as well. Steve Jobs was a bad leader too lmao just making my case for me. He was a brilliant man but he had other guys to lead.

You can win in basketball or be rich and not be a good leader.
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Re: Where do you rank Kevin Garnett all time? 

Post#386 » by wutevahung » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:20 am

kendogg wrote:Plenty of proof has already been given in this thread on KG already, and the other 2 on the first couple of pages. There is no need to write it out again for you. Jordan's case is already well documented as well. Steve Jobs was a bad leader too lmao just making my case for me. He was a brilliant man but he had other guys to lead.

You can win in basketball or be rich and not be a good leader.


What proof are you speaking of? I didn’t see any proof besides couple posters making up narratives for non stories. But you are right, let’s not go through that again because to me those are not proof.

I didn’t say Steve Job is a good leader because he is rich, I said he is a good leader because he got people to follow his visions, products, and mission for the company.

I don’t think anyone has came out and criticized Jordan as a leader either. Phil actually praised MJ’s leadership in his book Eleven Rings. I also didn’t say he won so he was a great leader. Plenty of Top 30 guys I would consider soso to bad leaders, like Shaq.

I definitely agree with your last statement, but don’t agree with rest.
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Re: Where do you rank Kevin Garnett all time? 

Post#387 » by eminence » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:39 pm

As a guy very high on KG (4th) I'm not particularly high on his leadership, but perhaps I'm just down on ATGs leadership in general. The narrative seems to be as simple as if the best player on a team won multiple championships he must be a great leader and that's it (an exception for Shaq).
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Re: Where do you rank Kevin Garnett all time? 

Post#388 » by freethedevil » Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:01 pm

eminence wrote:As a guy very high on KG (4th).

I take it you have him over duncan and russell? Or someone else?
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Re: Where do you rank Kevin Garnett all time? 

Post#389 » by kendogg » Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:25 pm

It's between Russell and Duncan for most coachable MVP+ tier player. Of course it helps to luck into a situation with one of the all-time great coaches. Both are similar players to KG. Both are better winners and arguably better players as well. Russ and Duncan are ATG rim protectors though in addition to their other talents. KG is an ATG help defender and versatile man defender so great against PnRs, but rim protectors are more important than help defenders. Combined with the fact that KG as a teammate is a negative on his resume, I don't see how anyone could put them lower than KG. And there are many players that have stronger GOAT cases than any of these guys. Kareem, Jordan, LeBron for sure are higher. Then you can add Shaq, Wilt, Bird, Magic, Dream and maybe even Oscar as others with debatable cases over all of them.

So KG at #4 is laughable to me I don't understand it at all. Even in a bizarro world where a high motor defensive player is more valuable than an unstoppable offensive player or a dominant rim protector, I wouldn't put him 4th.
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Re: Where do you rank Kevin Garnett all time? 

Post#390 » by freethedevil » Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:29 pm

kendogg wrote:
So KG at #4 is laughable to me I don't understand it at all. Even in a bizarro world where a high motor defensive player is more valuable than an unstoppable offensive player or a dominant rim protector, I wouldn't put him 4th.

If you wanted to understand, you would have asked. :roll:
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Re: Where do you rank Kevin Garnett all time? 

Post#391 » by kendogg » Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:54 pm

I'm not sure he can make a case that makes sense to me is what I mean. but anyone is welcome to try :P I'm sure he has his reasons for his ranking and its not just a list of his favorite players, but I wonder if there's not a bit of bias baked in :P
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Re: Where do you rank Kevin Garnett all time? 

Post#392 » by eminence » Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:59 pm

freethedevil wrote:
eminence wrote:As a guy very high on KG (4th).

I take it you have him over duncan and russell? Or someone else?


Behind LBJ/Duncan/KAJ in that order.

Russell vs MJ for 5/6 (I have a tough time evaluating both of their longevity as they both went out on top vs what we might consider a normal career arc).

Shaq/Hakeem/Wilt in some order from 7-9.
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Re: Where do you rank Kevin Garnett all time? 

Post#393 » by Colbinii » Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:03 pm

kendogg wrote:I'm not sure he can make a case that makes sense to me is what I mean. but anyone is welcome to try :P I'm sure he has his reasons for his ranking and its not just a list of his favorite players, but I wonder if there's not a bit of bias baked in :P


He isn't any more biased than you or most people here.
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Re: Where do you rank Kevin Garnett all time? 

Post#394 » by eminence » Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:05 pm

Colbinii wrote:
kendogg wrote:I'm not sure he can make a case that makes sense to me is what I mean. but anyone is welcome to try :P I'm sure he has his reasons for his ranking and its not just a list of his favorite players, but I wonder if there's not a bit of bias baked in :P


He isn't any more biased than you or most people here.


As long as everyone agrees Joe Ingles is a clear top 10 player in the league today.

(though Derrick Favors is probably my actual favorite player - sad day, wish you well in New Orleans Derrick!)
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Re: Where do you rank Kevin Garnett all time? 

Post#395 » by Colbinii » Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:08 pm

eminence wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
kendogg wrote:I'm not sure he can make a case that makes sense to me is what I mean. but anyone is welcome to try :P I'm sure he has his reasons for his ranking and its not just a list of his favorite players, but I wonder if there's not a bit of bias baked in :P


He isn't any more biased than you or most people here.


As long as everyone agrees Joe Ingles is a clear top 10 player in the league today.

(though Derrick Favors is probably my actual favorite player - sad day, wish you well in New Orleans Derrick!)


I like Joe a lot. Favors I'm not as high on as you are, at all.
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Re: Where do you rank Kevin Garnett all time? 

Post#396 » by freethedevil » Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:18 pm

kendogg wrote:I'm not sure he can make a case that makes sense to me is what I mean.

Then ask him to. :roll:
but anyone is welcome to try :P I'm sure he has his reasons for his ranking and its not just a list of his favorite players, but I wonder if there's not a bit of bias baked in :P

Lol, everyone's biased. If he can make a good case, who cares?

Not that you have any reason to think a jazz fan is biased for garnett...
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Re: Where do you rank Kevin Garnett all time? 

Post#397 » by Colbinii » Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:34 pm

freethedevil wrote:
kendogg wrote:I'm not sure he can make a case that makes sense to me is what I mean.

Then ask him to. :roll:
but anyone is welcome to try :P I'm sure he has his reasons for his ranking and its not just a list of his favorite players, but I wonder if there's not a bit of bias baked in :P

Lol, everyone's biased. If he can make a good case, who cares?

Not that you have any reason to think a jazz fan is biased for garnett...


As we fan see Eminence is already biased towards Utah Big Men *cough* Favors *cough*
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