Where do you rank Kevin Garnett all time?

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Kevin Garnett ranking

1-5
9
5%
6-10
28
16%
11-15
48
27%
16-20
37
21%
21+
54
31%
 
Total votes: 176

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Re: Where do you rank Kevin Garnett all time? 

Post#361 » by Odinn21 » Thu Aug 8, 2019 12:51 pm

liamliam1234 wrote:Wilt and Jordan lost in seven games in the conference finals against the best team on the league (and Kareem was similar, without the series being as close), and Duncan won his championship. Obviously the team can win, but it is just difficult if the rest of the team is that weak... which is the dumbest possible fault on Lebron considering how outside of “percentage of stat totals” he is unparalleled in how he carried his team. Credit to Duncan, but otherwise that tells me basically nothing. What, should Lebron have made the Magic go in a cold streak?

The funny thing is, those were all some of the best individual seasons ever.

What I was saying, LeBron’s run in 2009 playoffs isn’t wholly unrivalled. It still got some company. Only a handful but still.
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Re: Where do you rank Kevin Garnett all time? 

Post#362 » by liamliam1234 » Thu Aug 8, 2019 1:00 pm

It is not unheard of in one specific formulation (although even there he is second). That data point is a neat little note, but it hardly ties to the following conclusion.
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Re: Where do you rank Kevin Garnett all time? 

Post#363 » by Doctor MJ » Fri Aug 9, 2019 1:03 am

KTM_2813 wrote:I don't personally have a dog in this fight, but as someone who feels as though Garnett probably ranks somewhere in the 15-20 range, I think that the strongest argument for him as a top-ten player ever is:

- I, and many people, think that Tim Duncan is a no-brain top-seven player ever
- Kevin Garnett has a career resume and statistical portfolio that stacks up very favorably to Duncan's. He also felt like very much Duncan's equal while they were playing
- So with that said, it feels very weird to rank Duncan in the top seven but have Garnett all the way down around 20

I know this is a half-baked argument at best but for some reason it genuinely gives me pause when I think about the comparison. I just get a weird feeling in my gut when I see Duncan and Garnett so far apart. :lol:


To me this is the essence of things in a nutshell with one more thing:

People considered Garnett to be right up there with Duncan as of 2004, but from then until he left Minnesota his stature fell off immensely, and really it never fully recovered despite getting a significant boost in Boston.

Key thing here: It wasn't simply that Duncan opened up a big lead over Garnett over the years '04-07, it was that Garnett essentially had judgment passed against him as "not good enough to lead a team on his own". He got put into a different, lower category relative to Duncan.

That's how it was for most, if not all, of us who currently rank KG highly. We felt that same "he deserves to be in a lower tier" feeling, originally went with it, but then later realized that we had damned KG for something that could have easily just been bad luck.

For the record, I tend to go back and forth between Duncan, Garnett, and Hakeem for spots 5-7. Lately I've had Duncan in the 5 spot and put Garnett alternatingly in the 6 or 7 spot.
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Re: Where do you rank Kevin Garnett all time? 

Post#364 » by FrogBros4Life » Fri Aug 9, 2019 2:11 am

Doctor MJ wrote:To me this is the essence of things in a nutshell with one more thing:

People considered Garnett to be right up there with Duncan as of 2004, but from then until he left Minnesota his stature fell off immensely, and really it never fully recovered despite getting a significant boost in Boston.

Key thing here: It wasn't simply that Duncan opened up a big lead over Garnett over the years '04-07, it was that Garnett essentially had judgment passed against him as "not good enough to lead a team on his own". He got put into a different, lower category relative to Duncan.

That's how it was for most, if not all, of us who currently rank KG highly. We felt that same "he deserves to be in a lower tier" feeling, originally went with it, but then later realized that we had damned KG for something that could have easily just been bad luck.

For the record, I tend to go back and forth between Duncan, Garnett, and Hakeem for spots 5-7. Lately I've had Duncan in the 5 spot and put Garnett alternatingly in the 6 or 7 spot.


Regarding the bolded: People considered TMac to be as good or better than Kobe until around 05, maybe 06. Once injuries derailed TMac's career, that narrative died a quick death, but it was a real, palpable thing before then despite Kobe winning in LA and TMac losing in the first round every year (see: KG vs Duncan). Kobe winning 2 more titles in 09/10 only made people call that claim even sillier in hindsight.

TMac's PER, BPM and VORP between 01-07, while not better than KG's on average, at least warrants a closer examination of value (in so far as you favor those metrics) as TMac ranks ahead of Garnett in those categories for several individual seasons (same with NPI RAPM), despite KG's obvious edge on the defensive side of the ball.

Do you think if TMac had gotten traded to a team other than Houston and won 1 title with another two or three deep postseason runs (while avoiding injuries) he'd be justified as being a top 10 player of all time? What about just better than KG (with both outside the top 10), or better than Kobe (ditto)?

Yes this is a hypothetical question, but a lot of the basis KG's supporters build their argument on is more or less "advanced stats + impact" and/or "well KG was about as good as Duncan, so if KG had Duncan's teammates he would have won about the same number of titles as Duncan"....which is also a huge hypothetical. So I think it's a fair way to frame this question: Assuming T-Mac had a late(r) career trajectory that mirrored KG's and resulted in at least 1 championship, how high on the ATG list could you see yourself ranking him?

Just to be clear, I in no way think that TMac has a case, hypothetical or otherwise, against KG, Duncan or Kobe. I'm just trying to understand the thought process better that you used to come to the conclusion that KG and Duncan, by necessity, must be so close to each other on the all time rankings list.
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Re: Where do you rank Kevin Garnett all time? 

Post#365 » by DatAsh » Fri Aug 9, 2019 3:10 am

Doctor MJ wrote:
KTM_2813 wrote:I don't personally have a dog in this fight, but as someone who feels as though Garnett probably ranks somewhere in the 15-20 range, I think that the strongest argument for him as a top-ten player ever is:

- I, and many people, think that Tim Duncan is a no-brain top-seven player ever
- Kevin Garnett has a career resume and statistical portfolio that stacks up very favorably to Duncan's. He also felt like very much Duncan's equal while they were playing
- So with that said, it feels very weird to rank Duncan in the top seven but have Garnett all the way down around 20

I know this is a half-baked argument at best but for some reason it genuinely gives me pause when I think about the comparison. I just get a weird feeling in my gut when I see Duncan and Garnett so far apart. :lol:


To me this is the essence of things in a nutshell with one more thing:

People considered Garnett to be right up there with Duncan as of 2004, but from then until he left Minnesota his stature fell off immensely, and really it never fully recovered despite getting a significant boost in Boston.

Key thing here: It wasn't simply that Duncan opened up a big lead over Garnett over the years '04-07, it was that Garnett essentially had judgment passed against him as "not good enough to lead a team on his own". He got put into a different, lower category relative to Duncan.

That's how it was for most, if not all, of us who currently rank KG highly. We felt that same "he deserves to be in a lower tier" feeling, originally went with it, but then later realized that we had damned KG for something that could have easily just been bad luck.

For the record, I tend to go back and forth between Duncan, Garnett, and Hakeem for spots 5-7. Lately I've had Duncan in the 5 spot and put Garnett alternatingly in the 6 or 7 spot.


This is pretty much where I'm at exactly. I have Duncan at 5, Garnett at 6, and Hakeem at 7.

Every impact metric we have says that Garnett is better than Duncan, but Duncan's box score stats hold up better in the post season, and 95/100 people rank Duncan over Garnett, which is enough to sway me in favor of Duncan(I think, it's so close). I think Hakeem is probably the best defender of the 3(Duncan the Worst) and has 2-3 years that are better than any from the other guys, but I don't think his offense was as consistently beneficial.

Duncan, Garnett, and Hakeem are probably my toughest players to rank.
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Re: Where do you rank Kevin Garnett all time? 

Post#366 » by Doctor MJ » Fri Aug 9, 2019 5:07 am

FrogBros4Life wrote:Regarding the bolded: People considered TMac to be as good or better than Kobe until around 05, maybe 06. Once injuries derailed TMac's career, that narrative died a quick death, but it was a real, palpable thing before then despite Kobe winning in LA and TMac losing in the first round every year (see: KG vs Duncan). Kobe winning 2 more titles in 09/10 only made people call that claim even sillier in hindsight.

TMac's PER, BPM and VORP between 01-07, while not better than KG's on average, at least warrants a closer examination of value (in so far as you favor those metrics) as TMac ranks ahead of Garnett in those categories for several individual seasons (same with NPI RAPM), despite KG's obvious edge on the defensive side of the ball.

Do you think if TMac had gotten traded to a team other than Houston and won 1 title with another two or three deep postseason runs (while avoiding injuries) he'd be justified as being a top 10 player of all time? What about just better than KG (with both outside the top 10), or better than Kobe (ditto)?[t a lot of the basis KG's supporters build their argument on is more or less "advanced stats + impact" and/or "well KG was about as good as Duncan, so if KG had Duncan's teammates he would have won about the same number of titles as Duncan"....which is also a huge hypothetical. So I think it's a fair way to frame this question: Assuming T-Mac had a late(r) career trajectory that mirrored KG's and resulted in at least 1 championship, how high on the ATG list could you see yourself ranking him?

Just to be clear, I in no way think that TMac has a case, hypothetical or otherwise, against KG, Duncan or Kobe. I'm just trying to understand the thought process better that you used to come to the conclusion that KG and Duncan, by necessity, must be so close to each other on the all time rankings list.


If you're asking about how I think specifically than just understand that I tend to look at players and roughly peg how impressive their prime impact was, and from there I extrapolate based on the length of the arc.

What I'm saying about KG is that in the end I concluded my original highly impressed assessment of KG was right (after thinking it was wrong for several years), and I also consider his longevity to be quite spectacular. Things like championship-winning performances certainly are observed and say good things, but the specific good things it says for that player are what really matter to me.

If TMac wins a championship by just playing like he was already playing it might just be another year of longevity to me. For KG his performance showed astonishing portability between roles and the ability to scale primacy based around quality of teammates. That was a really big deal. If you want me to give a number gun-to-head if TMac doesn't have longevity issues, my first thought is "whatever spot you have Kobe". I don't think TMac ever really proved his peak beyond doubt the way Kobe did, but their potential was viewed pretty comparably at one time, and I think you can certainly argue any TMac shortcoming away as him not having the ability to sustain himself like Kobe. ftr, I have Kobe around 15th.
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Re: Where do you rank Kevin Garnett all time? 

Post#367 » by ShotCreator » Fri Aug 9, 2019 11:09 am

FrogBros4Life wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:To me this is the essence of things in a nutshell with one more thing:

People considered Garnett to be right up there with Duncan as of 2004, but from then until he left Minnesota his stature fell off immensely, and really it never fully recovered despite getting a significant boost in Boston.

Key thing here: It wasn't simply that Duncan opened up a big lead over Garnett over the years '04-07, it was that Garnett essentially had judgment passed against him as "not good enough to lead a team on his own". He got put into a different, lower category relative to Duncan.

That's how it was for most, if not all, of us who currently rank KG highly. We felt that same "he deserves to be in a lower tier" feeling, originally went with it, but then later realized that we had damned KG for something that could have easily just been bad luck.

For the record, I tend to go back and forth between Duncan, Garnett, and Hakeem for spots 5-7. Lately I've had Duncan in the 5 spot and put Garnett alternatingly in the 6 or 7 spot.


Regarding the bolded: People considered TMac to be as good or better than Kobe until around 05, maybe 06. Once injuries derailed TMac's career, that narrative died a quick death, but it was a real, palpable thing before then despite Kobe winning in LA and TMac losing in the first round every year (see: KG vs Duncan). Kobe winning 2 more titles in 09/10 only made people call that claim even sillier in hindsight.

TMac's PER, BPM and VORP between 01-07, while not better than KG's on average, at least warrants a closer examination of value (in so far as you favor those metrics) as TMac ranks ahead of Garnett in those categories for several individual seasons (same with NPI RAPM), despite KG's obvious edge on the defensive side of the ball.

Do you think if TMac had gotten traded to a team other than Houston and won 1 title with another two or three deep postseason runs (while avoiding injuries) he'd be justified as being a top 10 player of all time? What about just better than KG (with both outside the top 10), or better than Kobe (ditto)?

Yes this is a hypothetical question, but a lot of the basis KG's supporters build their argument on is more or less "advanced stats + impact" and/or "well KG was about as good as Duncan, so if KG had Duncan's teammates he would have won about the same number of titles as Duncan"....which is also a huge hypothetical. So I think it's a fair way to frame this question: Assuming T-Mac had a late(r) career trajectory that mirrored KG's and resulted in at least 1 championship, how high on the ATG list could you see yourself ranking him?

Just to be clear, I in no way think that TMac has a case, hypothetical or otherwise, against KG, Duncan or Kobe. I'm just trying to understand the thought process better that you used to come to the conclusion that KG and Duncan, by necessity, must be so close to each other on the all time rankings list.

McGrady actually was better than Bryant in the early 2000s and NPI RAPM stinks.
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Re: Where do you rank Kevin Garnett all time? 

Post#368 » by DatAsh » Fri Aug 9, 2019 5:46 pm

ShotCreator wrote:
FrogBros4Life wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:To me this is the essence of things in a nutshell with one more thing:

People considered Garnett to be right up there with Duncan as of 2004, but from then until he left Minnesota his stature fell off immensely, and really it never fully recovered despite getting a significant boost in Boston.

Key thing here: It wasn't simply that Duncan opened up a big lead over Garnett over the years '04-07, it was that Garnett essentially had judgment passed against him as "not good enough to lead a team on his own". He got put into a different, lower category relative to Duncan.

That's how it was for most, if not all, of us who currently rank KG highly. We felt that same "he deserves to be in a lower tier" feeling, originally went with it, but then later realized that we had damned KG for something that could have easily just been bad luck.

For the record, I tend to go back and forth between Duncan, Garnett, and Hakeem for spots 5-7. Lately I've had Duncan in the 5 spot and put Garnett alternatingly in the 6 or 7 spot.


Regarding the bolded: People considered TMac to be as good or better than Kobe until around 05, maybe 06. Once injuries derailed TMac's career, that narrative died a quick death, but it was a real, palpable thing before then despite Kobe winning in LA and TMac losing in the first round every year (see: KG vs Duncan). Kobe winning 2 more titles in 09/10 only made people call that claim even sillier in hindsight.

TMac's PER, BPM and VORP between 01-07, while not better than KG's on average, at least warrants a closer examination of value (in so far as you favor those metrics) as TMac ranks ahead of Garnett in those categories for several individual seasons (same with NPI RAPM), despite KG's obvious edge on the defensive side of the ball.

Do you think if TMac had gotten traded to a team other than Houston and won 1 title with another two or three deep postseason runs (while avoiding injuries) he'd be justified as being a top 10 player of all time? What about just better than KG (with both outside the top 10), or better than Kobe (ditto)?

Yes this is a hypothetical question, but a lot of the basis KG's supporters build their argument on is more or less "advanced stats + impact" and/or "well KG was about as good as Duncan, so if KG had Duncan's teammates he would have won about the same number of titles as Duncan"....which is also a huge hypothetical. So I think it's a fair way to frame this question: Assuming T-Mac had a late(r) career trajectory that mirrored KG's and resulted in at least 1 championship, how high on the ATG list could you see yourself ranking him?

Just to be clear, I in no way think that TMac has a case, hypothetical or otherwise, against KG, Duncan or Kobe. I'm just trying to understand the thought process better that you used to come to the conclusion that KG and Duncan, by necessity, must be so close to each other on the all time rankings list.

McGrady actually was better than Bryant in the early 2000s and NPI RAPM stinks.


I agree that NPI RAPM is worthless.
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Re: Where do you rank Kevin Garnett all time? 

Post#369 » by freethedevil » Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:37 am

Odinn21 wrote:
The following percentages mean 'how much a player meant to his team from statistical pov' (they were calculated from available stats);

Now why don't you go and post how the players compare in the original stats, the ones that actually look at, and have a proven correlation with, winning, which you've pointlessly out of the equation?


YOu'll find:
A. Lebron's season is far higher on a per game basis than any stat you've listed
and
B. Players with much higher stats than ones you're listed have repeatedly won chips.
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Re: Where do you rank Kevin Garnett all time? 

Post#370 » by FrogBros4Life » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:42 am

Doctor MJ wrote:
FrogBros4Life wrote:Regarding the bolded: People considered TMac to be as good or better than Kobe until around 05, maybe 06. Once injuries derailed TMac's career, that narrative died a quick death, but it was a real, palpable thing before then despite Kobe winning in LA and TMac losing in the first round every year (see: KG vs Duncan). Kobe winning 2 more titles in 09/10 only made people call that claim even sillier in hindsight.

TMac's PER, BPM and VORP between 01-07, while not better than KG's on average, at least warrants a closer examination of value (in so far as you favor those metrics) as TMac ranks ahead of Garnett in those categories for several individual seasons (same with NPI RAPM), despite KG's obvious edge on the defensive side of the ball.

Do you think if TMac had gotten traded to a team other than Houston and won 1 title with another two or three deep postseason runs (while avoiding injuries) he'd be justified as being a top 10 player of all time? What about just better than KG (with both outside the top 10), or better than Kobe (ditto)?[t a lot of the basis KG's supporters build their argument on is more or less "advanced stats + impact" and/or "well KG was about as good as Duncan, so if KG had Duncan's teammates he would have won about the same number of titles as Duncan"....which is also a huge hypothetical. So I think it's a fair way to frame this question: Assuming T-Mac had a late(r) career trajectory that mirrored KG's and resulted in at least 1 championship, how high on the ATG list could you see yourself ranking him?

Just to be clear, I in no way think that TMac has a case, hypothetical or otherwise, against KG, Duncan or Kobe. I'm just trying to understand the thought process better that you used to come to the conclusion that KG and Duncan, by necessity, must be so close to each other on the all time rankings list.


If you're asking about how I think specifically than just understand that I tend to look at players and roughly peg how impressive their prime impact was, and from there I extrapolate based on the length of the arc.

What I'm saying about KG is that in the end I concluded my original highly impressed assessment of KG was right (after thinking it was wrong for several years), and I also consider his longevity to be quite spectacular. Things like championship-winning performances certainly are observed and say good things, but the specific good things it says for that player are what really matter to me.

If TMac wins a championship by just playing like he was already playing it might just be another year of longevity to me. For KG his performance showed astonishing portability between roles and the ability to scale primacy based around quality of teammates. That was a really big deal. If you want me to give a number gun-to-head if TMac doesn't have longevity issues, my first thought is "whatever spot you have Kobe". I don't think TMac ever really proved his peak beyond doubt the way Kobe did, but their potential was viewed pretty comparably at one time, and I think you can certainly argue any TMac shortcoming away as him not having the ability to sustain himself like Kobe. ftr, I have Kobe around 15th.



Thanks for the response. I can dig your reasoning and appreciate the consistency in your approach. One follow up question though....where do you rank Dirk in comparison to Duncan and KG? I often see the argument similar to the one you've made in that "KG was about as good as Duncan throughout most of their careers -- so it doesn't seem right to have Duncan in the top 5-8 and KG closer to 15-20"....RAPM has all three of them clustered together (#'s 1, 3 and 5 respectively) over a sample spanning 2001-2014. PER ranks Dirk ahead of KG for that time period. BPM and VORP like Garnett better (I don't know to what degree you value any of these stats, I am just listing them for reference). Knowing that you have Duncan at 5, and KG at 6, and that Dirk stacks up favorably to both KG and Duncan in impact and advanced stats, and that Dirk's actual career probably was as valuable (arguably more valuable) than KG's [both played in 2 Finals, both won 1 title, both won 1 MVP, Dirk won a FMVP to KG's DPOY, KG was the better defender, Dirk the better offensive focal point, with Dirk having much better regular season and total postseason success)....is it outlandish for me to assume that you (or anyone) would have Dirk in their top 10? You have Kobe at 15. You got Dirk above or below that? If I can accept an argument that KG is top 5-ish on the grounds that Duncan was top 5ish and KG is more or less = Duncan, what exactly precludes Dirk from having a seat at that table as well once we stop compartmentalizing attributes and focus solely on overall value to a team as a franchise player? I've never seen anybody make the case for Dirk > Duncan or Dirk in the top 10, let alone top 5, so I'm curious what any pro KG person might have to say to justify the gap between KG and Dirk relative to the smaller gap (in either direction) between KG and Duncan.
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Re: Where do you rank Kevin Garnett all time? 

Post#371 » by FrogBros4Life » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:02 am

ShotCreator wrote:McGrady actually was better than Bryant in the early 2000s and NPI RAPM stinks.


DatAsh wrote:I agree that NPI RAPM is worthless.




Statistics are tools and they are (generally) only as useful or useless as the means by which you are using them to obtain information. A calendar is not useless because it does not tell you the time of day. A clock is not useless because it does not tell you the temperature outside. A thermometer is not useless because it doesn't tell you the day of the week, etc.


NPI RAPM may have it's faults, but it's probably the better of the two choices (RAPM and NPI RAPM) for getting a basic idea of PM data for any single season as opposed to trying to determine consistent play over a stretch of years. With someone like TMac specifically, his role and usage were both so drastically different in the previous year(s) to the one I cited first in that span of seasons, that using prior based RAPM is going to severely undervalue him once his role and usage increase.

NPI RAPM might not be a great tool in and of itself, but it's still probably going to give you a more accurate idea of what the data reflects in that particular scenario.
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Re: Where do you rank Kevin Garnett all time? 

Post#372 » by bledredwine » Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:37 pm

So 53% of you have KG at 16 or lower, 79% at 11th or lower, and most of you have him ranked ahead of Magic Johnson.


Fascinating stuff.
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Re: Where do you rank Kevin Garnett all time? 

Post#373 » by Colbinii » Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:56 pm

bledredwine wrote:So 53% of you have KG at 16 or lower, 79% at 11th or lower, and most of you have him ranked ahead of Magic Johnson.


Fascinating stuff.


What do you mean by "most"?

It is quite obvious that people see things differently and the minority (KG as top 10) will be attacked and thus defend themselves moreso than people who view him as a similar caliber player as say...Charles Barkley.
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Re: Where do you rank Kevin Garnett all time? 

Post#374 » by kendogg » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:02 pm

If we went only by the advanced stats, it's hard to keep KG out of the top 10. But, the whole point of analysis is to find the truth behind the stats. And for KG, the truth is that he was a productive player that always got his. Fantastic 2-way player. He has A+ grade motor and team defense. He's just A- on scoring and rim protection, and I say "just" because I don't believe that is top 10 level of either, and I think these qualities are most important in a GOAT. But the biggest knock on him is as a teammate. He's an extremely cancerous teammate that never got along with pretty much any of his teammates and even seemed to try to freeze them out at times. He's lucky to have barely gotten that 1 ring with the Celtics before the team fell apart. I liken him to someone like Jimmy Butler where yeah maybe you get lucky and keep him in line for a season but long term he is going to tear your team apart. Which is what KG did everywhere he went.

He's the posterchild argument of the school against being overly reliant on historical data (RAPM, etc).

Having said all that, I have him in the 15-20 range. Basically near the top of the 2nd tier of players below the GOAT/generational mega-superstar tier.
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Re: Where do you rank Kevin Garnett all time? 

Post#375 » by eminence » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:33 pm

This "KG tore his teams apart" line is a new one and the idea that the Celtics fell apart after '08 is preposterous.
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Re: Where do you rank Kevin Garnett all time? 

Post#376 » by Pg81 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:02 pm

kendogg wrote:If we went only by the advanced stats, it's hard to keep KG out of the top 10. But, the whole point of analysis is to find the truth behind the stats. And for KG, the truth is that he was a productive player that always got his. Fantastic 2-way player. He has A+ grade motor and team defense. He's just A- on scoring and rim protection, and I say "just" because I don't believe that is top 10 level of either, and I think these qualities are most important in a GOAT. But the biggest knock on him is as a teammate. He's an extremely cancerous teammate that never got along with pretty much any of his teammates and even seemed to try to freeze them out at times. He's lucky to have barely gotten that 1 ring with the Celtics before the team fell apart. I liken him to someone like Jimmy Butler where yeah maybe you get lucky and keep him in line for a season but long term he is going to tear your team apart. Which is what KG did everywhere he went.

He's the posterchild argument of the school against being overly reliant on historical data (RAPM, etc).

Having said all that, I have him in the 15-20 range. Basically near the top of the 2nd tier of players below the GOAT/generational mega-superstar tier.


If A is the highest grade you can achieve then KG is a B at best at scoring. Neither in terms of efficiency nor in terms of volume does he even come close to actually all time great scorers.
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Re: Where do you rank Kevin Garnett all time? 

Post#377 » by Zeitgeister » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:03 pm

kendogg wrote:But the biggest knock on him is as a teammate. He's an extremely cancerous teammate that never got along with pretty much any of his teammates and even seemed to try to freeze them out at times. He's lucky to have barely gotten that 1 ring with the Celtics before the team fell apart. I liken him to someone like Jimmy Butler where yeah maybe you get lucky and keep him in line for a season but long term he is going to tear your team apart. Which is what KG did everywhere he went.


Butler was a team cancer in Minnesota by his second year and all but forced his way out of Minnesota. Kevin Garnett was here for 12 years, name another superstar in the past 30 years who endured more for one franchise. The two aren't that comparable.

He got into it with Rick Rickert, not really sure what it was about but he punched him, Rickert was a sympathy 2nd round pick that didn't even play for the Wolves. Garnett and Wally Z had a back and forth, don't know if there was any more to it than that. I know he was pretty insulting to Patrick O'Bryant. As far as Ray Allen, pretty sure Paul Pierce hated him too.

Garnett got along well with Paul Pierce, he still gets emotional about Malik Sealy, he was helping Rondo practice shooting after regular practice, Karl Towns dad had this to say:

“The best thing that happened to Karl-Anthony Towns was Kevin Garnett.”

Garnett was definitely a dominant personality and had high expectations of his teammates but he is also pretty obviously a strong leader much in the same way. This idea that he's "extremely cancerous" isn't fair.
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Re: Where do you rank Kevin Garnett all time? 

Post#378 » by bledredwine » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:39 am

Colbinii wrote:
bledredwine wrote:So 53% of you have KG at 16 or lower, 79% at 11th or lower, and most of you have him ranked ahead of Magic Johnson.


Fascinating stuff.


What do you mean by "most"?

It is quite obvious that people see things differently and the minority (KG as top 10) will be attacked and thus defend themselves moreso than people who view him as a similar caliber player as say...Charles Barkley.


Right, but ahead of any of the following-

Jordan KAJ Russell Bron Wilt Magic Bird Hakeem Shaq

is certifiably insane.
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Re: Where do you rank Kevin Garnett all time? 

Post#379 » by freethedevil » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:43 am

bledredwine wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
bledredwine wrote:So 53% of you have KG at 16 or lower, 79% at 11th or lower, and most of you have him ranked ahead of Magic Johnson.


Fascinating stuff.


What do you mean by "most"?

It is quite obvious that people see things differently and the minority (KG as top 10) will be attacked and thus defend themselves moreso than people who view him as a similar caliber player as say...Charles Barkley.


Right, but ahead of any of the following-

Jordan KAJ Russell Bron Wilt Magic Bird Hakeem Shaq

is certifiably insane.

http://www.backpicks.com/2018/03/19/backpicks-goat-8-kevin-garnett/

I expect you can refute this "certifiably insane" ranking? Or are you just overcompensating with hyperbole.
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Re: Where do you rank Kevin Garnett all time? 

Post#380 » by Colbinii » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:54 am

bledredwine wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
bledredwine wrote:So 53% of you have KG at 16 or lower, 79% at 11th or lower, and most of you have him ranked ahead of Magic Johnson.


Fascinating stuff.


What do you mean by "most"?

It is quite obvious that people see things differently and the minority (KG as top 10) will be attacked and thus defend themselves moreso than people who view him as a similar caliber player as say...Charles Barkley.


Right, but ahead of any of the following-

Jordan KAJ Russell Bron Wilt Magic Bird Hakeem Shaq

is certifiably insane.


So people who know way more about basketball than you and whom have watched far more basketball than you are "insane" because they view a player you believe to be inferior to other players?

Some of the best posters on this board hold KG very highly. Some of the best posters on this board are not so high on KG. But the ones who disagree with you are insane.
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