Current Giannis v Prime Garnett

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Current Giannis v Prime Garnett 

Post#1 » by Laimbeer » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:42 pm

How do they compare?
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Re: Current Giannis v Prime Garnett 

Post#2 » by Whopper_Sr » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:10 pm

I would probably take every year of KG's prime over current GA.

02-08 for sure. 00 and 01 are toss ups.

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Re: Current Giannis v Prime Garnett 

Post#3 » by Sublime187 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:20 pm

Giannis has a long way to go. KG is the better overall defender, playmaker, rebounder and scorer IMO.
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Re: Current Giannis v Prime Garnett 

Post#4 » by Jaivl » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:00 pm

Same answer as before the Toronto series. KG.
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Re: Current Giannis v Prime Garnett 

Post#5 » by Amares » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:27 pm

This is 3rd topic on this matter as I remember in last time.
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Re: Current Giannis v Prime Garnett 

Post#6 » by euroleague » Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:39 pm

I’d take 03-06 and 08 KG over Giannis last year

We saw Giannis’s limitations in his offense last year. He can’t shoot FT or jump shots, and his passing out of doubles wasn’t great.
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Re: Current Giannis v Prime Garnett 

Post#7 » by Threetimes10 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:00 pm

Sublime187 wrote:Giannis has a long way to go. KG is the better overall defender, playmaker, rebounder and scorer IMO.


How is KG the better scorer?
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Re: Current Giannis v Prime Garnett 

Post#8 » by Gooner » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:02 pm

Threetimes10 wrote:
Sublime187 wrote:Giannis has a long way to go. KG is the better overall defender, playmaker, rebounder and scorer IMO.


How is KG the better scorer?



He is more skilled. He could shoot and he had post moves. He played in a tougher era too.
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Re: Current Giannis v Prime Garnett 

Post#9 » by G35 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:22 pm

Gooner wrote:
Threetimes10 wrote:
Sublime187 wrote:Giannis has a long way to go. KG is the better overall defender, playmaker, rebounder and scorer IMO.


How is KG the better scorer?



He is more skilled. He could shoot and he had post moves. He played in a tougher era too.



KG lost more in a tougher era also.

Giannis' issue is he only has one real move and that's to go to the basket. But he uses it at a very high rate and at a very high rate of success.

KG has a multitude of moves but used them at a low rate and at a lower rate of success seeing as how he was massively inefficient for a big man......
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Re: Current Giannis v Prime Garnett 

Post#10 » by skones » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:32 pm

Sublime187 wrote:Giannis has a long way to go. KG is the better overall defender, playmaker, rebounder and scorer IMO.


KG only topped him in rebounding per 100 possessions twice in his career. He's certainly not a better scorer, the gap there is pretty sizable in Antetokounmpo's favor. Garnett never topped him in Assists per 100 possessions, though Garnett consistently had a better A/TO ratio during his peak Minnesota years (01-05).

The gap isn't nearly as sizable as some will insist.
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Re: Current Giannis v Prime Garnett 

Post#11 » by RCM88x » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:34 pm

KG
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Re: Current Giannis v Prime Garnett 

Post#12 » by ShotCreator » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:46 pm

skones wrote:
Sublime187 wrote:Giannis has a long way to go. KG is the better overall defender, playmaker, rebounder and scorer IMO.


KG only topped him in rebounding per 100 possessions twice in his career. He's certainly not a better scorer, the gap there is pretty sizable in Antetokounmpo's favor. Garnett never topped him in Assists per 100 possessions, though Garnett consistently had a better A/TO ratio during his peak Minnesota years (01-05).

The gap isn't nearly as sizable as some will insist.

Giannis scoring does not come in a vacuum. Its not that additive to a team because he skill set stinks and he isnt versatile. These guys are on he opposite ends of the boxscore spectrum in terms of impact. Over and under selling value.
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Re: Current Giannis v Prime Garnett 

Post#13 » by skones » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:50 pm

ShotCreator wrote:
skones wrote:
Sublime187 wrote:Giannis has a long way to go. KG is the better overall defender, playmaker, rebounder and scorer IMO.


KG only topped him in rebounding per 100 possessions twice in his career. He's certainly not a better scorer, the gap there is pretty sizable in Antetokounmpo's favor. Garnett never topped him in Assists per 100 possessions, though Garnett consistently had a better A/TO ratio during his peak Minnesota years (01-05).

The gap isn't nearly as sizable as some will insist.

Giannis scoring does not come in a vacuum. Its not that additive to a team because he skill set stinks and he isnt versatile. These guys are on he opposite ends of the boxscore spectrum in terms of impact. Over and under selling value.


lol k.

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Re: Current Giannis v Prime Garnett 

Post#14 » by ShotCreator » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:57 pm

skones wrote:
ShotCreator wrote:
skones wrote:
KG only topped him in rebounding per 100 possessions twice in his career. He's certainly not a better scorer, the gap there is pretty sizable in Antetokounmpo's favor. Garnett never topped him in Assists per 100 possessions, though Garnett consistently had a better A/TO ratio during his peak Minnesota years (01-05).

The gap isn't nearly as sizable as some will insist.

Giannis scoring does not come in a vacuum. Its not that additive to a team because he skill set stinks and he isnt versatile. These guys are on he opposite ends of the boxscore spectrum in terms of impact. Over and under selling value.


The only thing that stinks is your evidence to back any of what you said up. You don't have it, kindly see yourself out.

The entire core rotations scoring efficiency dropping w/ Giannis out there.


TS% with Giannis, then TS without Giannis:
Bledsoe: 55.8 to 61.3
Lopez: 59.6 to 62.0
Middleton: 53.4 to 56.9
Brogdon: 60.1 to 61.6

PP100 with Giannis, then PP100 without Giannis:
Bledsoe: 22.2 to 32.9
Lopez: 19.4 to 22.5
Middleton: 21.5 to 36.7
Brogdon: 24.1 to 30.7


KG was the exact opposite kind of player. His elite passing and shooting would open things up for his teammates big time. Regardless of style of the players he played with. This was the case into the early 2010s.

Is Giannis still pretty good offensively? Yeah because he overcomes it with brute force. Is it optimal? No. Is he as elite as his boxscore would imply? Hell no.
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Re: Current Giannis v Prime Garnett 

Post#15 » by skones » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:07 pm

ShotCreator wrote:
TS% with Giannis, then TS without Giannis:
Bledsoe: 55.8 to 61.3
Lopez: 59.6 to 62.0
Middleton: 53.4 to 56.9
Brogdon: 60.1 to 61.6

PP100 with Giannis, then PP100 without Giannis:
Bledsoe: 22.2 to 32.9
Lopez: 19.4 to 22.5
Middleton: 21.5 to 36.7
Brogdon: 24.1 to 30.7


KG was the exact opposite kind of player. His elite passing and shooting would open things up for his teammates big time. Regardless of style of the players he played with. This was the case into the early 2010s.

Is Giannis still pretty good offensively? Yeah because he overcomes it with brute force. Is it optimal? No. Is he as elite as his boxscore would imply? Hell no.


Is that why the offense was 5.1 points per 100 possessions better with Giannis on the floor than when he was off? How about the 8.9 points per 100 possessions better with him on the floor than off in total and being the engine behind a top 4 offense and the top defense in the league last season. Sounds pretty "additive" to me and a far cry from the "opposite end of the impact spectrum" drivel you're spewing. Need I mention the 10.8 BPM, 7.6 VORP, .292 WS/48, and the 6.69 RPM? Or do those all say he's on the "opposite end of the impact spectrum" too?

But wow! Guys score more when they're forced to with Giannis off the floor because they have the ball in their hands? You don't say!
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Re: Current Giannis v Prime Garnett 

Post#16 » by No-more-rings » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:58 pm

Threetimes10 wrote:
Sublime187 wrote:Giannis has a long way to go. KG is the better overall defender, playmaker, rebounder and scorer IMO.


How is KG the better scorer?

There is no argument for Kg as the better scorer. Giannis’ worst scoring series in the playoffs this year was like usual for KG.
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Re: Current Giannis v Prime Garnett 

Post#17 » by Mavericksfan » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:42 pm

ShotCreator wrote:
skones wrote:
ShotCreator wrote:Giannis scoring does not come in a vacuum. Its not that additive to a team because he skill set stinks and he isnt versatile. These guys are on he opposite ends of the boxscore spectrum in terms of impact. Over and under selling value.


The only thing that stinks is your evidence to back any of what you said up. You don't have it, kindly see yourself out.

The entire core rotations scoring efficiency dropping w/ Giannis out there.


TS% with Giannis, then TS without Giannis:
Bledsoe: 55.8 to 61.3
Lopez: 59.6 to 62.0
Middleton: 53.4 to 56.9
Brogdon: 60.1 to 61.6

PP100 with Giannis, then PP100 without Giannis:
Bledsoe: 22.2 to 32.9
Lopez: 19.4 to 22.5
Middleton: 21.5 to 36.7
Brogdon: 24.1 to 30.7


KG was the exact opposite kind of player. His elite passing and shooting would open things up for his teammates big time. Regardless of style of the players he played with. This was the case into the early 2010s.

Is Giannis still pretty good offensively? Yeah because he overcomes it with brute force. Is it optimal? No. Is he as elite as his boxscore would imply? Hell no.


Turnover %s?
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Re: Current Giannis v Prime Garnett 

Post#18 » by Jaivl » Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:03 pm

skones wrote:
ShotCreator wrote:
TS% with Giannis, then TS without Giannis:
Bledsoe: 55.8 to 61.3
Lopez: 59.6 to 62.0
Middleton: 53.4 to 56.9
Brogdon: 60.1 to 61.6

PP100 with Giannis, then PP100 without Giannis:
Bledsoe: 22.2 to 32.9
Lopez: 19.4 to 22.5
Middleton: 21.5 to 36.7
Brogdon: 24.1 to 30.7


KG was the exact opposite kind of player. His elite passing and shooting would open things up for his teammates big time. Regardless of style of the players he played with. This was the case into the early 2010s.

Is Giannis still pretty good offensively? Yeah because he overcomes it with brute force. Is it optimal? No. Is he as elite as his boxscore would imply? Hell no.


Is that why the offense was 5.1 points per 100 possessions better with Giannis on the floor than when he was off? How about the 8.9 points per 100 possessions better with him on the floor than off in total and being the engine behind a top 4 offense and the top defense in the league last season. Sounds pretty "additive" to me and a far cry from the "opposite end of the impact spectrum" drivel you're spewing. Need I mention the 10.8 BPM, 7.6 VORP, .292 WS/48, and the 6.69 RPM? Or do those all say he's on the "opposite end of the impact spectrum" too?

But wow! Guys score more when they're forced to with Giannis off the floor because they have the ball in their hands? You don't say!

I mean, you don't want to get in a +/- argument against Garnett, because he is easily #1 there. For perspective, his career average on/off is +11.5. That's nearly 3 points over Giannis' peak, and counting the Brooklyn seasons. He peaked at +23.6. +10 is obviously very good, but KG is a whole different animal in terms of impact, and that's why some people have him in their top 5 GOAT.
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Re: Current Giannis v Prime Garnett 

Post#19 » by skones » Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:06 pm

Jaivl wrote:
skones wrote:
ShotCreator wrote:
KG was the exact opposite kind of player. His elite passing and shooting would open things up for his teammates big time. Regardless of style of the players he played with. This was the case into the early 2010s.

Is Giannis still pretty good offensively? Yeah because he overcomes it with brute force. Is it optimal? No. Is he as elite as his boxscore would imply? Hell no.


Is that why the offense was 5.1 points per 100 possessions better with Giannis on the floor than when he was off? How about the 8.9 points per 100 possessions better with him on the floor than off in total and being the engine behind a top 4 offense and the top defense in the league last season. Sounds pretty "additive" to me and a far cry from the "opposite end of the impact spectrum" drivel you're spewing. Need I mention the 10.8 BPM, 7.6 VORP, .292 WS/48, and the 6.69 RPM? Or do those all say he's on the "opposite end of the impact spectrum" too?

But wow! Guys score more when they're forced to with Giannis off the floor because they have the ball in their hands? You don't say!

I mean, you don't want to get in a +/- argument against Garnett, because he is easily #1 there. For perspective, his career average on/off is +11.5. That's nearly 3 points over Giannis' peak, and counting the Brooklyn seasons. He peaked at +23.6. +10 is obviously very good, but KG is a whole different animal in terms of impact, and that's why some people have him in their top 5 GOAT.


There's a HUGE difference between not having the +/- numbers Garnett does due to the teams he played on which CERTAINLY play a factor, and being on the "opposite end of the spectrum," because he's not "additive" because his "skillset stinks." Follow the context on the back and forth.

FWIW, KG never achieved the BPM that Giannis did this past season peaking at 9.9 to the 10.8 mark by Giannis this past season.
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Re: Current Giannis v Prime Garnett 

Post#20 » by Colbinii » Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:31 am

skones wrote:
Jaivl wrote:
skones wrote:
Is that why the offense was 5.1 points per 100 possessions better with Giannis on the floor than when he was off? How about the 8.9 points per 100 possessions better with him on the floor than off in total and being the engine behind a top 4 offense and the top defense in the league last season. Sounds pretty "additive" to me and a far cry from the "opposite end of the impact spectrum" drivel you're spewing. Need I mention the 10.8 BPM, 7.6 VORP, .292 WS/48, and the 6.69 RPM? Or do those all say he's on the "opposite end of the impact spectrum" too?

But wow! Guys score more when they're forced to with Giannis off the floor because they have the ball in their hands? You don't say!

I mean, you don't want to get in a +/- argument against Garnett, because he is easily #1 there. For perspective, his career average on/off is +11.5. That's nearly 3 points over Giannis' peak, and counting the Brooklyn seasons. He peaked at +23.6. +10 is obviously very good, but KG is a whole different animal in terms of impact, and that's why some people have him in their top 5 GOAT.


There's a HUGE difference between not having the +/- numbers Garnett does due to the teams he played on which CERTAINLY play a factor, and being on the "opposite end of the spectrum," because he's not "additive" because his "skillset stinks." Follow the context on the back and forth.

FWIW, KG never achieved the BPM that Giannis did this past season peaking at 9.9 to the 10.8 mark by Giannis this past season.


BPM does a much worse job capturing impact than basic +/-.

If your stance is that Giannis is having an impact offensively, BPM doesn't paint any picture for us other than "He touches the ball a lot".
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