skones wrote:Timmyyy wrote:Giannis himself doesn't space the floor hence negative spacing effect. Giannis does provide great gravity inside creating openings. One does not exclude the other from being true.
I never said I give bud all the credit. Of course Giannis enabled that offense.
You act as if I said Giannis would be bad when I am just arguing that he isn't as good as KG. I already said that I have him on weak best player in the league level.
You are still only pointing to Giannis insane scoring that I already admitted to be great. But still the impact isnt on the level of KG and definitely not on shaqs which is why I said he doesn't add to the discussion. You say, hey he scores nearly as much as Shaq hence he is as good as him offensively and that flat out is incomplete. Shaq had clearly more Impact on offense then both so it's unnecessary to bring him up.
Look at any +/- statistic of any year of Giannis career and you will see that it has him lower than you see him
And its really funny how you act as if I have an agenda when Giannis is my favorite player in the nba alongside Jokic and I have absolutely no sympathie for KG. In fact he is the exact type of sportsman I hate.
But other than you I at least try to put my fandom aside and analyze what I see in the court and in the data. Don't be so offended when someone brings up obvious flaws in your darling's game.
With that attitude I have no interest in discussing with you. But since you didn't bring up anything other than scoring I would say this discussion wasn't going anywhere anyway.
Have a nice day.
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Most of the post was about the gravity (ie. spacing) Giannis creates which you flat out ignored and somehow only started reading at the Shaq comment.
I'm not offended by a knock on my "darling." I think your "negative spacing" drivel is trash. Gravity is the thing that provides spacing in this league. If you can shoot, players have to lean towards you to contest, they have to rotate harder. It spreads the defense thin on the interior, that's spacing. Conversely collapsing the defense, forcing defenders to help down, bunching the defense up, such as Giannis does, ALSO creates space. It creates space on the perimeter for wide open threes, and it creates easy looks on the backside when the defense hard rotates. That is GRAVITY. The idea that spacing is only created one way (in this case shooting the three) is false.
There aren't a lot of players who produce this collapsable effect, but Giannis is an outlier and it should be acknowledged as such. You're legitimately using this sort of "negative spacing effect" for Giannis that just isn't there. He doesn't space the floor in a traditional manner with his shooting, but make no mistake he DOES space it. Calling it a "negative spacing effect" as if he's causing some detriment to the ball club is entirely off base. THAT's what I take issue with.
Everything you wrote I already acknowledged. He has that effect. But him being off ball and a defender just leaves him alone on the perimeter, packing the paint is a negative spacing effect (btw never said how big exactly that effect is in my eyes. So you are arguing against something you don't even fully know) no matter if your name is Giannis or whatever.
You are having an issue with one of the easiest concepts of modern basketball because it is a flaw of your favorite player. If you can't except him having a negative spacing effect because he can't shoot, you won't acknowledge anything negative. So please proceed in your bubble and I enjoy Giannis knowing what he can and can't do.
Edit: i didn't ignore anything. I agree with this point in my second sentence of my former post.