Tracy McGrady vs James Harden

[scrabbarista]

Harden has won 11 playoff series, and T-Mac won 0.

Harden's all-time rank is in the mid-30's and he hasn't even turned 30 yet. T-Mac is retired and he's in the mid-70's.

Harden has already had three seasons better than McGrady's best and he's still in his prime.

3 seasons better is probably a stretch. His 18 and 19 years are comparable, and you can make a case as being better, but I don’t think 2017 or 15 is quite up there.

Oh, I meant four seasons, thanks for pointing that out. I forgot about 2019. I consider a season to be RS+PS. 2017 is close. The other three are easy, but I think all four are better than T-Mac's '03.

[No-more-rings]

Harden has won 11 playoff series, and T-Mac won 0.

Harden's all-time rank is in the mid-30's and he hasn't even turned 30 yet. T-Mac is retired and he's in the mid-70's.

Harden has already had three seasons better than McGrady's best and he's still in his prime.

3 seasons better is probably a stretch. His 18 and 19 years are comparable, and you can make a case as being better, but I don’t think 2017 or 15 is quite up there.

Oh, I meant four seasons, thanks for pointing that out. I forgot about 2019. I consider a season to be RS+PS. 2017 is close. The other three are easy, but I think all four are better than T-Mac's '03.

You think 2015 is an easy choice? I don’t even see the argument.

[Doctor MJ]

As an overall basketball player, in his prime, who you got? Not talking about playoff success, mvps, or rings.... just as an overall player.

Harden has McGrady on most stats... but for some reason I prefer mcgrady... maybe it's the aesthetics of his game but hes longer, better and more capable defender, and better floor general/court vision. Tmac has the 22 win streak, harden has the 30+ pt games. When they catch fire, both are unstoppable.

I wonder how tmac could have done in a dantoni system and how harden would have done in a jvg system. Harden has tmac beat in accomplishments for sure though.

Of course Harden has him in the stats, their primes were played in extreme opposite defensive eras in NBA history.

Not to mention every puts up great offense under D'Antoni.

Because back then it was considered GOAT-worthy to shoot 53% TS? Good times.

Re: everyone put up great offense under D'Antoni. Certainly hard to imagine all the Melo GOAT conversations we have now without his enormous success leading elite offenses in New York. I bet you he does the same for TMAC!

[scrabbarista]

3 seasons better is probably a stretch. His 18 and 19 years are comparable, and you can make a case as being better, but I don’t think 2017 or 15 is quite up there.

Oh, I meant four seasons, thanks for pointing that out. I forgot about 2019. I consider a season to be RS+PS. 2017 is close. The other three are easy, but I think all four are better than T-Mac's '03.

You think 2015 is an easy choice? I don’t even see the argument.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Tracy+McGrady&player_id1_select=Tracy+McGrady&y1=2003&player_id1=mcgratr01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=James+Harden&player_id2_select=James+Harden&y2=2015&player_id2=hardeja01&idx=players

Here are the numbers. Not going to argue back and forth over them, because for every stat I name, you'll just name another and it will lead nowhere: it's a close comparison. But what they don't show it that Harden's team won 21 more games than McGrady's, RS+PS. Also, Harden's PIPM was a career high in 2015 and was higher than 03 McGrady's. Harden also finished higher in MVP voting (2nd vs. 4th) and with more voting shares. I know that's merely other people's opinions, but at least it's people who are paid professionally for those opinions.

[Prokorov]

As an overall basketball player, in his prime, who you got? Not talking about playoff success, mvps, or rings.... just as an overall player.

Harden has McGrady on most stats... but for some reason I prefer mcgrady... maybe it's the aesthetics of his game but hes longer, better and more capable defender, and better floor general/court vision. Tmac has the 22 win streak, harden has the 30+ pt games. When they catch fire, both are unstoppable.

I wonder how tmac could have done in a dantoni system and how harden would have done in a jvg system. Harden has tmac beat in accomplishments for sure though.

McGrady couldnt shine hardens shoes. harden is better in every aspect of the game and as much as people hate on harden in the playoffs mcgrady is the utlimate playoff scrub loser

McGrady has his own wing the the overrated chucker hall of fame

[Prokorov]

Check Harden's playoffs stats, it's pure trash, he put 52%TS 22PER-series in 2019, what a offensive genius.
T-Mac 2001-2005 would outplays Harden in playoff series. In 2003 it would be funny.
Also, rules and defense. T-Mac was great defender in Toronto, in 2001 and 2005.

T-mac wouldnt outplay me and 4 out of shape ymca friends if his life was on the line

[benson13]

Because back then it was considered GOAT-worthy to shoot 53% TS? Good times.

Re: everyone put up great offense under D'Antoni. Certainly hard to imagine all the Melo GOAT conversations we have now without his enormous success leading elite offenses in New York. I bet you he does the same for TMAC!

I don't think 53% TS is GOAT-worthy, but the argument that they played in different eras is a fair one. In McGrady's 03 season he took 6 threes a night. That was third in the league. There were 28 guys who took more than that last season, and TS% does favor threes, provided you can make them. If you adjust McGrady's shot distribution and make it similar to Harden's, his TS% goes up close to 60%. You could argue that he wouldn't shoot as well if he took more of them, but historical numbers don't always agree with that. Harden's ability to be almost automatic from the free throw line is the biggest difference.

I think Harden was a better player, but I also remember watching McGrady back when he was considered among the league's best. Twenty foot jumpers are sacrilege in today's NBA, and T-Mac used to do crossovers before pulling up and taking that sort of shot. He was also sort of lazy in comparison to Harden. That manifested itself in him not improving much after 22 as well as him settling for jump shots compared to Harden's sometimes relentless determination to get to the basket.

[LakerLegend]

As an overall basketball player, in his prime, who you got? Not talking about playoff success, mvps, or rings.... just as an overall player.

Harden has McGrady on most stats... but for some reason I prefer mcgrady... maybe it's the aesthetics of his game but hes longer, better and more capable defender, and better floor general/court vision. Tmac has the 22 win streak, harden has the 30+ pt games. When they catch fire, both are unstoppable.

I wonder how tmac could have done in a dantoni system and how harden would have done in a jvg system. Harden has tmac beat in accomplishments for sure though.

Of course Harden has him in the stats, their primes were played in extreme opposite defensive eras in NBA history.

Not to mention every puts up great offense under D'Antoni.

Because back then it was considered GOAT-worthy to shoot 53% TS? Good times.

Re: everyone put up great offense under D'Antoni. Certainly hard to imagine all the Melo GOAT conversations we have now without his enormous success leading elite offenses in New York. I bet you he does the same for TMAC!

What's your point? We're not arguing what's a "better" era regarding how the game should be played or what it should look like, we're simply talking about the realities regarding defense, physicality, and statistics.

As for Melo, that says more about him than it does anything else.

[Pg81]

As an overall basketball player, in his prime, who you got? Not talking about playoff success, mvps, or rings.... just as an overall player.

Harden has McGrady on most stats... but for some reason I prefer mcgrady... maybe it's the aesthetics of his game but hes longer, better and more capable defender, and better floor general/court vision. Tmac has the 22 win streak, harden has the 30+ pt games. When they catch fire, both are unstoppable.

I wonder how tmac could have done in a dantoni system and how harden would have done in a jvg system. Harden has tmac beat in accomplishments for sure though.

McGrady couldnt shine hardens shoes. harden is better in every aspect of the game and as much as people hate on harden in the playoffs mcgrady is the utlimate playoff scrub loser

McGrady has his own wing the the overrated chucker hall of fame

Better atevery aspect of the game? You mean like defense?

[Prokorov]

As an overall basketball player, in his prime, who you got? Not talking about playoff success, mvps, or rings.... just as an overall player.

Harden has McGrady on most stats... but for some reason I prefer mcgrady... maybe it's the aesthetics of his game but hes longer, better and more capable defender, and better floor general/court vision. Tmac has the 22 win streak, harden has the 30+ pt games. When they catch fire, both are unstoppable.

I wonder how tmac could have done in a dantoni system and how harden would have done in a jvg system. Harden has tmac beat in accomplishments for sure though.

McGrady couldnt shine hardens shoes. harden is better in every aspect of the game and as much as people hate on harden in the playoffs mcgrady is the utlimate playoff scrub loser

McGrady has his own wing the the overrated chucker hall of fame

Better atevery aspect of the game? You mean like defense?

yes. Harden gets clowned for shaqtin' a fool moments but he isnt an awful defender and specifically is great vs big on switches.

mcgrady was trash defensively and the most over rated plaer of his era. he was that era paul george

[Pg81]

McGrady couldnt shine hardens shoes. harden is better in every aspect of the game and as much as people hate on harden in the playoffs mcgrady is the utlimate playoff scrub loser

McGrady has his own wing the the overrated chucker hall of fame

Better atevery aspect of the game? You mean like defense?

yes. Harden gets clowned for shaqtin' a fool moments but he isnt an awful defender and specifically is great vs big on switches.

mcgrady was trash defensively and the most over rated plaer of his era. he was that era paul george

[ccameron]

. . . compared to Harden's sometimes relentless determination to get fouled.

Fixed

But I kid, I'm not disagreeing with you. I've just seen too many instances where it was very clear Harden was driving for the foul and not so much to get to the basket. Honestly, in terms of skill at their peak, I would take T Mac. There was just more that he could do physically and skill wise than Harden can. But skill isn't the only thing, and Harden is just smarter. Like you said, TMac shot 20 footers that Harden is too smart to take. But then again there is something to be said for a guy that is willing to hit shots from anywhere on the court (even the inefficient ones). Sometimes its the right shot if it's the open one, and it amkes you less predictable.

I think I would take '03 McGrady over any version of Harden (not like it's a huge differnece though), but Harden has a better prime so far. IAt their peaks they are close and anyone who says otherwise is a homer.

[Clyde Frazier]

Prime harden clearly has the better body of work, but peak is at least worthy of a discussion. McGrady was just so immensely talented. His skillset combined with his body and athleticism was truly remarkable to watch. I can't fault a guy for losing in 7 to the 5th ranked SRS Pistons with the roster he had around him in 03.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ORL/2003.html

[DatAsh]

I think people might be ignoring era difference a bit here when comparing stats. They're probably pretty comparable, statistically.

[Pg81]

Two pages and still no one brings up how McGrady was heavily impacted by his back problems/injuries, basically having 1 healthy season with Yao and then never again.