Swap 07’ Lebron/Kobe on Cavs/Lakers

[G35]

Stern gets sad that he has another Spurs Pistons final

Which would have been worse than the 4-0 sweep we got......

[G35]

People do remember that Phil Jackson was the coach of the 2007 Lakers right?

People do know that Phil took the ball out of Michael Jordan's hands and introduced the triangle, which was the offense the Lakers were running at the time.

Also the Cavs that year were ranked 18th on offense and 4th on defense. Mike Brown was a really good defensive coach and got the team to buy into that.

The Lakers were 7th on offense and 24th on defense.

It is almost a complete opposite on how the two teams played. Lebron was doing his Lebron-ball, while the Lakers ran the triangle, the Cavs had a workmanlike defensive system, while the Lakers did not have a strong defenders at many positions.

At best this is a lateral move for each team.....

[JordansBulls]

Miami would have beaten Cavs that year.

[Dr Positivity]

The Cavs are worse, Lebron was their defensive anchor and they relied on his rebounding as well. 45 W type team and 2nd or 3rd round

Lakers are better in both regular season and playoffs. Lebron carries them and makes Odom look good, and he has a great coach.

[loveandbeer]

Lebron's a better floor raiser so think Lakers do better.

Cavs 2nd round or ECF

[TroubleS0me]

People do remember that Phil Jackson was the coach of the 2007 Lakers right?

People do know that Phil took the ball out of Michael Jordan's hands and introduced the triangle, which was the offense the Lakers were running at the time.

Also the Cavs that year were ranked 18th on offense and 4th on defense. Mike Brown was a really good defensive coach and got the team to buy into that.

The Lakers were 7th on offense and 24th on defense.

It is almost a complete opposite on how the two teams played. Lebron was doing his Lebron-ball, while the Lakers ran the triangle, the Cavs had a workmanlike defensive system, while the Lakers did not have a strong defenders at many positions.

At best this is a lateral move for each team.....

Yes & we remember how Kobe struggled vs '04 pistons.................

[Mazter]

I don't think that LeBron and Kobe were offensively that much different. Kobe was a better FT shooter, LeBron was a better and more efficient passer. On FGA's they were more or less equal. Defensively at that point Kobe had a day pass on the All Defensive teams. But his defensive impact throughout his career was limited by an increased offensive load.

But the biggest difference is adaptability. Kobe relies heavily on what works with him. He can do wonders when given the right cast and/or lineup. But a successful lineup for Kobe is much harder to find than for LeBron. Therefore I think LeBron would be much more successful on both that Lakers and Cavs team then Kobe would.

[An Unbiased Fan]

I don't think that LeBron and Kobe were offensively that much different. Kobe was a better FT shooter, LeBron was a better and more efficient passer. On FGA's they were more or less equal. Defensively at that point Kobe had a day pass on the All Defensive teams. But his defensive impact throughout his career was limited by an increased offensive load.

But the biggest difference is adaptability. Kobe relies heavily on what works with him. He can do wonders when given the right cast and/or lineup. But a successful lineup for Kobe is much harder to find than for LeBron. Therefore I think LeBron would be much more successful on both that Lakers and Cavs team then Kobe would.

Don't see how Kobe had a day pass, when he was LA's defneisve anchor. I also don't see how you can say Kobe reliees heavily on what works with him....when its the exact oppoite. He played like 6-7 different roles over his 20 year career. Lebron is the one who has played the same way since high school. Odom and Lebron don't fit together at all, for example.

[Cavsfansince84]

That 2007 Piston's team was a bit of a paper tiger, and while I don't see Kobe having the game 5 that Lebron did, he'd still bring it. As an aside, go look at what "Boobie" Gibson was doing in that series. Take a nice long long at how he was shooting from beyond the arc. Maybe it takes 7 instead of 6, but same result, and same result in the finals.

The thing is though that they were still a very good defensive team and still had the same guys who defended Kobe so well in the 04 finals. Kobe wasn't going to have a great offensive series against the 07 Pistons. He would have probably averaged like 25-27ppg on poor efficiency.

[tihsad]

That 2007 Piston's team was a bit of a paper tiger, and while I don't see Kobe having the game 5 that Lebron did, he'd still bring it. As an aside, go look at what "Boobie" Gibson was doing in that series. Take a nice long long at how he was shooting from beyond the arc. Maybe it takes 7 instead of 6, but same result, and same result in the finals.

The thing is though that they were still a very good defensive team and still had the same guys who defended Kobe so well in the 04 finals. Kobe wasn't going to have a great offensive series against the 07 Pistons. He would have probably averaged like 25-27ppg on poor efficiency.

With all respect no, they were not the same defensive team, nor was the league the same. The defensive rumble that the league was embracing from the mid 90s hit it's apex in 2004, the Piston's the poster child of the sub 70 game, and changes were made to reverse the trend. I assume we're all in agreement on this. While the bulk of the attention to the 04' Pistons D was provided to the front court, people forget how nasty the subs were on perimeter defense. Hunter and James provided a harsh trapping defense that would swarm the ball handler off the inbound, reminiscent of the "Doberman" defense Phil Jackson would use with Pippen and Jordan (and to be clear, while very effective, it was a lesser version). Let's also remember that 04' Kobe was by no means "prime" Mamba. While that season certainly should have been a prime/peak season, their was a noticeable effect via his off-court issues (I believe he was commuting from Denver for a number of those finals games). Lastly, and most importantly, the 07' squad had Flip drawing up the X's and O's vs. Larry Brown, and oh, this guy named Ben Wallace was manning the 5 at his peak - instead of the pylon edition of Chris Webber. What James did in that series was his break through, IMO, and he deserves every bit of credit for it, but that was not the 2004 Piston's defense he was lighting up.

[Franco]

That 2007 Piston's team was a bit of a paper tiger, and while I don't see Kobe having the game 5 that Lebron did, he'd still bring it. As an aside, go look at what "Boobie" Gibson was doing in that series. Take a nice long long at how he was shooting from beyond the arc. Maybe it takes 7 instead of 6, but same result, and same result in the finals.

The thing is though that they were still a very good defensive team and still had the same guys who defended Kobe so well in the 04 finals. Kobe wasn't going to have a great offensive series against the 07 Pistons. He would have probably averaged like 25-27ppg on poor efficiency.

With all respect no, they were not the same defensive team, nor was the league the same. The defensive rumble that the league was embracing from the mid 90s hit it's apex in 2004, the Piston's the poster child of the sub 70 game, and changes were made to reverse the trend. I assume we're all in agreement on this. While the bulk of the attention to the 04' Pistons D was provided to the front court, people forget how nasty the subs were on perimeter defense. Hunter and James provided a harsh trapping defense that would swarm the ball handler off the inbound, reminiscent of the "Doberman" defense Phil Jackson would use with Pippen and Jordan (and to be clear, while very effective, it was a lesser version). Let's also remember that 04' Kobe was by no means "prime" Mamba. While that season certainly should have been a prime/peak season, their was a noticeable effect via his off-court issues (I believe he was commuting from Denver for a number of those finals games). Lastly, and most importantly, the 07' squad had Flip drawing up the X's and O's vs. Larry Brown, and oh, this guy named Ben Wallace was manning the 5 at his peak - instead of the pylon edition of Chris Webber. What James did in that series was his break through, IMO, and he deserves every bit of credit for it, but that was not the 2004 Piston's defense he was lighting up.

To be fair, LeBron had absolutely torched the Pistons the year before with Ben, in a 7 game series (that was probably better overall than his 07 one, but the best game is obviously G5).

I don’t know if Kobe drags us past Detroit, but if he does we probably take a game or two off San Antonio, given his history of slaughtering them.

[IG2]

2007 Kobe is a far superior player to 2007 LeBron, who had a comparatively 'down' season after the stellar 2006. Couldn't make a jump shot to save his life. Ask any LeBron fan to pick his worst season from 06-18 and they would all pick 2007. 2007 Kobe on other hand was 28 and at the peak of his powers. Could've easily had another 35 ppg season if that's what LA desired him to do, but they were going out of their way to play some semblance of team ball that season.

Cavs still make Finals. Don't think Lakers make the playoffs.

[tihsad]

The thing is though that they were still a very good defensive team and still had the same guys who defended Kobe so well in the 04 finals. Kobe wasn't going to have a great offensive series against the 07 Pistons. He would have probably averaged like 25-27ppg on poor efficiency.

With all respect no, they were not the same defensive team, nor was the league the same. The defensive rumble that the league was embracing from the mid 90s hit it's apex in 2004, the Piston's the poster child of the sub 70 game, and changes were made to reverse the trend. I assume we're all in agreement on this. While the bulk of the attention to the 04' Pistons D was provided to the front court, people forget how nasty the subs were on perimeter defense. Hunter and James provided a harsh trapping defense that would swarm the ball handler off the inbound, reminiscent of the "Doberman" defense Phil Jackson would use with Pippen and Jordan (and to be clear, while very effective, it was a lesser version). Let's also remember that 04' Kobe was by no means "prime" Mamba. While that season certainly should have been a prime/peak season, their was a noticeable effect via his off-court issues (I believe he was commuting from Denver for a number of those finals games). Lastly, and most importantly, the 07' squad had Flip drawing up the X's and O's vs. Larry Brown, and oh, this guy named Ben Wallace was manning the 5 at his peak - instead of the pylon edition of Chris Webber. What James did in that series was his break through, IMO, and he deserves every bit of credit for it, but that was not the 2004 Piston's defense he was lighting up.

To be fair, LeBron had absolutely torched the Pistons the year before with Ben, in a 7 game series (that was probably better overall than his 07 one, but the best game is obviously G5).

I don’t know if Kobe drags us past Detroit, but if he does we probably take a game or two off San Antonio, given his history of slaughtering them.

To be clear, as a vicarious recipient of the abuse he laid down, I'm not going to diminish what a barely adult Lebron did in the 06' and 07' match ups with the Pistons. I'd agree that his overall performance was better in 06' (why I brought up boobie's shooting in 07'), but that game 5 was a soul crusher. As a fan it was like someone took the last 3 seconds of game 5 of the 1987 ECFs and elongated it over 17 minutes. Regardless, yes Ben was there in 06' but Larry Brown, the subs, and the style of play were no longer 04'. I have no interest in turning this into a Bron vs. Mamba thread, but I think Kobe would have done just fine in 07', maybe not in the same way, but the Pistons' were ripe for an upset that year.

[tihsad]

2007 Kobe is a far superior player to 2007 LeBron, who had a comparatively 'down' season after the stellar 2006. Couldn't make a jump shot to save his life. Ask any LeBron fan to pick his worst season from 06-18 and they would all pick 2007. 2007 Kobe on other hand was 28 and at the peak of his powers. Could've easily had another 35 ppg season if that's what LA desired him to do, but they were going out of their way to play some semblance of team ball that season.

Cavs still make Finals. Don't think Lakers make the playoffs.

Like I said, I think Kobe would have done just fine against Detroit, then got chewed up in the finals much like Lebron did.

[HEAT33]

Lakers miss playoffs