How much better is PG13 and Kawhi vs Prime Cp3 and Blake Griffin?

[HeartBreakKid]

About even. The main difference is that Kawhi has shown to be the best player in the playoffs.

When?

Who was the best in the post season just gone?

Jokic got a pretty good argument.

[Dupp]

When?

Who was the best in the post season just gone?

Jokic got a pretty good argument.

Not really. The two easiest rounds vs the whole playoffs. Jokic was insanely good but vast difference in competition and lengths of runs.

[freethedevil]

About even. The main difference is that Kawhi has shown to be the best player in the playoffs.

When?

Who was the best in the post season just gone?

Curry or Giannis.

I wanna say jokic but, sample size was too small.

[BenoUdrihFTL]

I'd argue Kawhi/PG are significantly better when you consider that the game is played on both sides of the floor

[freethedevil]

I'd argue Kawhi/PG are significantly better when you consider that the game is played on both sides of the floor

Kawhi stopped being a two way player when he reached offensive stardom.

[Owly]

When?

Who was the best in the post season just gone?

Curry or Giannis.

I wanna say jokic a shout but, sample size was too small.

Giannis's sample (514) is lower minutes (if broader - 3 opponents) than Jokic's (557, vs 2).

fwiw, I''m inclined to believe pretty much every playoff sample is too small (in concert with being too context specific) to draw confident, reliable, meaningful conclusions about them as a players.

If some regression to the mean drops Jokic back behind others then that makes sense, if it doesn't I think that could be viable too.

[HBK_Kliq_33]

Chris Paul had the absolute perfect team built around his game in 2008.

Best shooter in the league - Peja

Pick and roll finisher - Chandler

Pick and pop shooter - David West

Another lights out shooter in mo Peterson

That team is literally built for Chris Paul's skill set and style of play, where did it get them? The whopping 2nd round lol. Than in 2015 he cries and hurts his hamstring instead of taking advantage of a title opportunity. 2018 he's playing with arguably the best player in the game and still gets injured instead of winning a title.

This little midget is supposed to be on Kawhi Leonard's level? Give me a break. Kawhi did something in 1 season that Chris Paul hasn't been able to do his entire career.

[HeartBreakKid]

Chris Paul had the absolute perfect team built around his game in 2008.

Best shooter in the league - Peja

Pick and roll finisher - Chandler

Pick and pop shooter - David West

Another lights out shooter in mo Peterson

That team is literally built for Chris Paul's skill set and style of play, where did it get them? The whopping 2nd round lol. .

Chris Paul was 22 years old...what the hell was Kawhi Leonard doing when he was 22 years old? Your argument is really silly. He was arguably the best player in the entire league in his 3rd season, and you think that because he lost to the Spurs in 7 games that he is a scrub?

Peja scored single digits in the majority of that Spurs series. Chris Paul was the best player in the series...

You're probably going to say Kawhi Leonard carried a championship level team when he was 22 even though he was really just a roleplayer back then. Chris Paul literally beat Leonard's ass the next year.

[HBK_Kliq_33]

Chris Paul had the absolute perfect team built around his game in 2008.

Best shooter in the league - Peja

Pick and roll finisher - Chandler

Pick and pop shooter - David West

Another lights out shooter in mo Peterson

That team is literally built for Chris Paul's skill set and style of play, where did it get them? The whopping 2nd round lol. .

Chris Paul was 22 years old...what the hell was Kawhi Leonard doing when he was 22 years old? Your argument is really silly. He was arguably the best player in the entire league in his 3rd season, and you think that because he lost to the Spurs in 7 games that he is a scrub?

Peja scored single digits in the majority of that Spurs series. Chris Paul was the best player in the series...

You're probably going to say Kawhi Leonard carried a championship level team when he was 22 even though he was really just a roleplayer back then. Chris Paul literally beat Leonard's ass the next year.

Chris Paul reached his prime earlier than Kawhi Leonard did, that's the only thing he has over him. Peja couldn't get his scoring going? That's on Paul, he's supposed to be the GOAT PG. You have a team built perfectly around you, make it work.

Parker Manu Duncan Kawhi were all not even in their primes and Paul beat them by 1 shot in game 7 on his home court. That's his biggest accomplishment? He can't win with an MVP on his team, he can't win when a team is perfectly built around him, he couldn't even close out Rockets in 2015 when they sat out James Harden. His defining moments are hurting his tiny hamstring and crying like a baby after he eliminates the senior citizen clinic.

[freethedevil]

Who was the best in the post season just gone?

Curry or Giannis.

I wanna say jokic a shout but, sample size was too small.

Giannis's sample (514) is lower minutes (if broader - 3 opponents) than Jokic's (557, vs 2).

fwiw, I''m inclined to believe pretty much every playoff sample is too small (in concert with being too context specific) to draw confident, reliable, meaningful conclusions about them as a players.

If some regression to the mean drops Jokic back behind others then that makes sense, if it doesn't I think that could be viable too.

That's fair. If he replicates what his play this season i could move him to my top 3 tbh.

[Colbinii]

Curry or Giannis.

I wanna say jokic a shout but, sample size was too small.

Giannis's sample (514) is lower minutes (if broader - 3 opponents) than Jokic's (557, vs 2).

fwiw, I''m inclined to believe pretty much every playoff sample is too small (in concert with being too context specific) to draw confident, reliable, meaningful conclusions about them as a players.

If some regression to the mean drops Jokic back behind others then that makes sense, if it doesn't I think that could be viable too.

That's fair. If he replicates what his play this season i could move him to my top 3 tbh.

I'm not sure what would prevent Jokic from replicating his play.

The past 2 regular seasons:
155 games, 4947 minutes, 25.4 PER, 59.6 TS%, 33.4 AST%, .219 WS/48, 8.3 BPM, On-court rating +4.9

While his playoff numbers are higher than his regular season numbers it really was just a case of him being extremely turnover efficient (10.9 TOV% to 37.1 AST%), making the 3-ball (39.3%) and hitting his mid-range shots at a slightly higher than usual rate.

I see no reason to believe he can't replicate this for the rest of his career barring injury.

[Lost92Bricks]

Chris Paul reached his prime earlier than Kawhi Leonard did, that's the only thing he has over him. Peja couldn't get his scoring going? That's on Paul, he's supposed to be the GOAT PG. You have a team built perfectly around you, make it work.

Parker Manu Duncan Kawhi were all not even in their primes and Paul beat them by 1 shot in game 7 on his home court. That's his biggest accomplishment? He can't win with an MVP on his team, he can't win when a team is perfectly built around him, he couldn't even close out Rockets in 2015 when they sat out James Harden. His defining moments are hurting his tiny hamstring and crying like a baby after he eliminates the senior citizen clinic.

They were up 3-2 on the Warriors when he played with the MVP.

They went 61-12 with him in the lineup. 69 win pace. Legitimately the best team in the league even over the Warriors.

And 15-11 without him including playoff games. A regular playoff team.

He made the Rockets look like they were better than the Warriors. And that's him at 33 making that kind of impact.

[HBK_Kliq_33]

Chris Paul reached his prime earlier than Kawhi Leonard did, that's the only thing he has over him. Peja couldn't get his scoring going? That's on Paul, he's supposed to be the GOAT PG. You have a team built perfectly around you, make it work.

Parker Manu Duncan Kawhi were all not even in their primes and Paul beat them by 1 shot in game 7 on his home court. That's his biggest accomplishment? He can't win with an MVP on his team, he can't win when a team is perfectly built around him, he couldn't even close out Rockets in 2015 when they sat out James Harden. His defining moments are hurting his tiny hamstring and crying like a baby after he eliminates the senior citizen clinic.

They were up 3-2 on the Warriors when he played with the MVP.

They went 61-12 with him in the lineup. 69 win pace. Legitimately the best team in the league even over the Warriors.

And 15-11 without him including playoff games. A regular playoff team.

He made the Rockets look like they were better than the Warriors. And that's him at 33 making that kind of impact.

I never said he wasn't great but the circumstances of his career make him inferior to leonard. Chris Webber was also up 3-2 on lakers in 2002 but it doesn't mean anything if you can't close. When you pull your hamstring in closeout games multiple times, you can't go over a guy like Leonard who offensively carried raptors to a title. His other peak season in 08, his team didn't get very far despite it being perfectly built around him and spurs were beatable that year too.

[Lost92Bricks]

I never said he wasn't great but the circumstances of his career make him inferior to leonard. Chris Webber was also up 3-2 on lakers in 2002 but it doesn't mean anything if you can't close. When you pull your hamstring in closeout games multiple times, you can't go over a guy like Leonard who offensively carried raptors to a title. His other peak season in 08, his team didn't get very far despite it being perfectly built around him and spurs were beatable that year too.

The 2008 Hornets have a total of one HOF caliber player, Chris Paul. The Spurs had 3 of them and a HOF coach.

A team "perfectly built around" Chris Paul should have a 2nd best player better than David West.

[HBK_Kliq_33]

I never said he wasn't great but the circumstances of his career make him inferior to leonard. Chris Webber was also up 3-2 on lakers in 2002 but it doesn't mean anything if you can't close. When you pull your hamstring in closeout games multiple times, you can't go over a guy like Leonard who offensively carried raptors to a title. His other peak season in 08, his team didn't get very far despite it being perfectly built around him and spurs were beatable that year too.

The 2008 Hornets have a total of one HOF caliber player, Chris Paul. The Spurs had 3 of them and a HOF coach.

A team "perfectly built around" Chris Paul should have a 2nd best player better than David West.

Kawhi beat 3 hall of famers in the finals.

Lowry siakam gasol = peja west Chandler

Paul had a team that complimented him to perfection and still couldn't make it out of the 2nd round against a late prime Duncan 2008 who wasn't much better 2019 Giannis.

[isaacz321]

I never said he wasn't great but the circumstances of his career make him inferior to leonard. Chris Webber was also up 3-2 on lakers in 2002 but it doesn't mean anything if you can't close. When you pull your hamstring in closeout games multiple times, you can't go over a guy like Leonard who offensively carried raptors to a title. His other peak season in 08, his team didn't get very far despite it being perfectly built around him and spurs were beatable that year too.

The 2008 Hornets have a total of one HOF caliber player, Chris Paul. The Spurs had 3 of them and a HOF coach.

A team "perfectly built around" Chris Paul should have a 2nd best player better than David West.

Kawhi beat 3 hall of famers in the finals.

Lowry siakam gasol = peja west Chandler

Paul had a team that complimented him to perfection and still couldn't make it out of the 2nd round against a late prime Duncan 2008 who wasn't much better 2019 Giannis.

one difference you're overlooking is the raptors also had ibaka, van vleet, green. the hornets barely had a 5th reliable guy in mo pete. It doesnt really matter comparing kawhi to cp3 since the raptors were a title team, the hornets were not a title lvl team.

Onto the topic which is the clippers, I think they topped out in 14 and 15. DJ and Reddick are nice 3rd and 4th guys but jamal was only good in 14. Lou+Harrell is better than reddick+dj however imo and the clippers depth in general during the doc years was awful, clips go 9 deep with borderline starters now. I dont particularly love the fit of kawhi+george without a great playmaker but cp3+blake had some redundancy issues too with blake having the skillset to be a point forward like he is now and blake's not a great defender which george has as a ceiling raiser.

[Lost92Bricks]

Kawhi beat 3 hall of famers in the finals.

Lowry siakam gasol = peja west Chandler

Paul had a team that complimented him to perfection and still couldn't make it out of the 2nd round against a late prime Duncan 2008 who wasn't much better 2019 Giannis.

That was largely because KD got injured and then later Klay. If you take Duncan and Ginobili from the 2008 Spurs, the Hornets would beat them.

[HBK_Kliq_33]

Kawhi beat 3 hall of famers in the finals.

Lowry siakam gasol = peja west Chandler

Paul had a team that complimented him to perfection and still couldn't make it out of the 2nd round against a late prime Duncan 2008 who wasn't much better 2019 Giannis.

That was largely because KD got injured and then later Klay. If you take Duncan and Ginobili from the 2008 Spurs, the Hornets would beat them.

KD makes 4 hall of famers.

Take tony parker away for a game and a half? Hornets still lose.

2015 and 2018 he had more chances and still came up short. Harden was benched in the 2015 playoffs for a whole 4th quarter and he couldn't close them out.

[Dr Positivity]

Lowry siakam gasol = peja west Chandler

I don't think so. Peja and Chandler were about as good as Redick and Deandre on the Clippers. I feel Lowry and Gasol are much more accomplished HOF bound players with the skill, defense and basketball IQ. West was a very good player and 2nd all-star, but Siakam is great as well, and plays a modern game. As mentioned the Raptors team after those players is also better. The Hornets with Paul, Peja, West, Chandler but also Green, FVV, Ibaka may very well have been champion level

[HBK_Kliq_33]

Lowry siakam gasol = peja west Chandler

I don't think so. Peja and Chandler were about as good as Redick and Deandre on the Clippers. I feel Lowry and Gasol are much more accomplished HOF bound players with the skill, defense and basketball IQ. West was a very good player and 2nd all-star, but Siakam is great as well, and plays a modern game. As mentioned the Raptors team after those players is also better. The Hornets with Paul, Peja, West, Chandler but also Green, FVV, Ibaka may very well have been champion level

Lowry wasn't really accomplished in the playoffs until he met Kawhi.

Chandler ended up winning a ring in 2011 with a worse team besides their best players. I don't see how Chandler is any worse than 2019 Gasol who had a heavily declined offensive game.

Peja is the perfect shooter for Chris Paul.

If Paul was as great as some think, he could of at least took them to the finals. Magic Johnson took a 91 lakers team to the finals that was similar in talent to 2008 Hornets.