Is Curry at a crossroads right now?

Cavsfansince84 · Post #1 » by **Cavsfansince84** » Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:56 am

It feels like a lot of the hype and talk about revolutionizing the league that he built up over the last 4-5 years has sort of dissipated over this last playoffs. Like maybe people are recognizing his limitations as a player more now than before. So my question is does Curry still have anything left to prove as a player or #1 player on a contending team? Now I know a lot of people will say he was #1 on GS the last 3 years but it was more 1a or 1b and the simple fact that Durant was there and won the fmvps sort of leaves a question mark about all of it. He's probably still going to go down as a top 25 player minimum regardless but for you as a bb fan do you want to see Curry do more without KD before you would put him in that top 12-17 group? Or is it all down hill from here and he just needs to have a few more solid years in the rs?

LivingLegend · Post #2 » by **LivingLegend** » Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:21 am

He has to prove that he is capable of being a 1 man army. The great ones can put da team on their back doe like Greg Jennings and will their team to great heights by their singular play alone.

This season he can prove he is truly a alltime great by shouldering the load and overachieving

Dr Positivity · Post #3 » by **Dr Positivity** » Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:31 am

Yes and no. He's still a legend on his way to being top 20 all time either way. But if he goes crazy he could be top 10 all time

Cavsfansince84 · Post #4 » by **Cavsfansince84** » Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:45 am

Dr Positivity wrote:Yes and no. He's still a legend on his way to being top 20 all time either way. But if he goes crazy he could be top 10 all time

idk. If he keeps getting banged up a lot and never gets out of the first round of the playoffs again would he really seen as a lock for the top 20? I think there would be arguments for keeping him out. There is some pretty good competition in that 18-25 range.

Post #5 » by **Clyde Frazier** » Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:50 am

He doesn't have to prove anything. Just forced narratives at this point.

Cavsfansince84 · Post #6 » by **Cavsfansince84** » Sat Jul 27, 2019 5:18 am

Clyde Frazier wrote:He doesn't have to prove anything. Just forced narratives at this point.

For some he may need to in order to crack their top 15.

eminence · Post #7 » by **eminence** » Sat Jul 27, 2019 5:29 am

Sure I want to see him do more, he's an entertaining player to watch.

By my criteria he needs a solid chunk more longevity to continue to move up the list into the ranges you're talking about, but in terms of peak/prime I'm more than comfortable calling him an All-timer.

Post #8 » by **Clyde Frazier** » Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:34 am

Cavsfansince84 wrote:
Clyde Frazier wrote:He doesn't have to prove anything. Just forced narratives at this point.

For some he may need to in order to crack their top 15.

I'm a longevity guy when it comes to all time rankings so yes he does need to do more, just not in the way you suggested. Give me productive healthy seasons within reasonable expectations. He's already proven himself as an ATG level player.

HeartBreakKid · Post #9 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:43 am

I think I have him at 19 right now, but someone like Kawhi Leonard could bump him out within the next few years. With guys like Giannis, Jokic and Davis around, I don't think he'll be a top 20 guy for long in my list.

WarriorGM · Post #10 » by **WarriorGM** » Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:03 am

HeartBreakKid wrote:I think I have him at 19 right now, but someone like Kawhi Leonard could bump him out within the next few years. With guys like Giannis, Jokic and Davis around, I don't think he'll be a top 20 guy for long in my list.

Kawhi probably needs two more championships or one more and an MVP to be in the conversation with Curry as Curry currently stands now. Giannis, Jokic, and Davis need three rings minimum to be in a conversation. If the Rockets can win twice Harden might have a better case than any of them. But even then I don't think it would be better than Curry's resume.

70sFan · Post #11 » by **70sFan** » Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:06 am

WarriorGM wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:I think I have him at 19 right now, but someone like Kawhi Leonard could bump him out within the next few years. With guys like Giannis, Jokic and Davis around, I don't think he'll be a top 20 guy for long in my list.

Kawhi probably needs two more championships or one more and an MVP to be in the conversation with Curry as Curry currently stands now. Giannis, Jokic, and Davis need three rings minimum to be in a conversation. If the Rockets can win twice Harden might have a better case than any of them. But even then I don't think it would be better than Curry's resume.

Not everyone ranks players based on rings and MVPs though.

WarriorGM · Post #12 » by **WarriorGM** » Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:09 am

70sFan wrote:
WarriorGM wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:I think I have him at 19 right now, but someone like Kawhi Leonard could bump him out within the next few years. With guys like Giannis, Jokic and Davis around, I don't think he'll be a top 20 guy for long in my list.

Kawhi probably needs two more championships or one more and an MVP to be in the conversation with Curry as Curry currently stands now. Giannis, Jokic, and Davis need three rings minimum to be in a conversation. If the Rockets can win twice Harden might have a better case than any of them. But even then I don't think it would be better than Curry's resume.

Not everyone ranks players based on rings and MVPs though.

Yeah and there are people that do.

WarriorGM · Post #13 » by **WarriorGM** » Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:10 am

70sFan wrote:
WarriorGM wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:I think I have him at 19 right now, but someone like Kawhi Leonard could bump him out within the next few years. With guys like Giannis, Jokic and Davis around, I don't think he'll be a top 20 guy for long in my list.

Kawhi probably needs two more championships or one more and an MVP to be in the conversation with Curry as Curry currently stands now. Giannis, Jokic, and Davis need three rings minimum to be in a conversation. If the Rockets can win twice Harden might have a better case than any of them. But even then I don't think it would be better than Curry's resume.

Not everyone ranks players based on rings and MVPs though.

Yeah and there are people that do. Even in terms of simple dominance though either statistically or in wins they aren't close to Curry. Curry is top 5 all-time in various categories. I'd expect a player who is viewed as better overall to be tops in as many categories.

Cavsfansince84 · Post #14 » by **Cavsfansince84** » Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:43 pm

WarriorGM wrote:
Yeah and there are people that do. Even in terms of simple dominance though either statistically or in wins they aren't close to Curry. Curry is top 5 all-time in various categories. I'd expect a player who is viewed as better overall to be tops in as many categories.

I feel like there is logic to what you are saying but it sorts of lacks substance when you are being so vague about what stats you are referring to.

WarriorGM · Post #15 » by **WarriorGM** » Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:25 pm

Cavsfansince84 wrote:
WarriorGM wrote:
Yeah and there are people that do. Even in terms of simple dominance though either statistically or in wins they aren't close to Curry. Curry is top 5 all-time in various categories. I'd expect a player who is viewed as better overall to be tops in as many categories.

I feel like there is logic to what you are saying but it sorts of lacks substance when you are being so vague about what stats you are referring to.

Take your pick. Efficiency, plus-minus, wins. Engine and game-changer of the most dominant team of the 2010s and perhaps NBA history. What's the dirt on Curry? He's a poor finals performer? Top 10 all-time for career in ppg in the finals.

Cavsfansince84 · Post #16 » by **Cavsfansince84** » Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:28 pm

WarriorGM wrote:
Cavsfansince84 wrote:
WarriorGM wrote:
Yeah and there are people that do. Even in terms of simple dominance though either statistically or in wins they aren't close to Curry. Curry is top 5 all-time in various categories. I'd expect a player who is viewed as better overall to be tops in as many categories.

I feel like there is logic to what you are saying but it sorts of lacks substance when you are being so vague about what stats you are referring to.

Take your pick. Efficiency, plus-minus, wins. Engine and game-changer of the most dominant team of the 2010s and perhaps NBA history. What's the dirt on Curry? He's a poor finals performer? Top 10 all-time for career in ppg in the finals.

I would say his weaknesses as of right now would be length of prime, being somewhat injury prone and perhaps not being seen as the true leader of his team(I would say that's Draymond). His playoffs while very good maybe aren't quite on that atg level either.

WarriorGM · Post #17 » by **WarriorGM** » Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:00 pm

Cavsfansince84 wrote:
WarriorGM wrote:
Cavsfansince84 wrote:
I feel like there is logic to what you are saying but it sorts of lacks substance when you are being so vague about what stats you are referring to.

Take your pick. Efficiency, plus-minus, wins. Engine and game-changer of the most dominant team of the 2010s and perhaps NBA history. What's the dirt on Curry? He's a poor finals performer? Top 10 all-time for career in ppg in the finals.

I would say his weaknesses as of right now would be length of prime, being somewhat injury prone and perhaps not being seen as the true leader of his team(I would say that's Draymond). His playoffs while very good maybe aren't quite on that atg level either.

I guess you could argue Lowry was the real leader of last year's Raptors and even that Dennis Rodman should have been FMVP and not Jordan. Curry holds the record for raw plus-minus in the playoffs, is top 5 in playoffs TS% for career and top 10 in ppg in the playoffs for his career. Just how many all-time greats are there in your reckoning? Less than 10?

HeartBreakKid · Post #18 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:07 pm

Top 5 in raw TS% maybe. TS% is higher today than past eras, so logically someone with high TS% in the past 5 years will have very high TS compared to players from previous styles of play.

Ainosterhaspie · Post #19 » by **Ainosterhaspie** » Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:01 pm

I feel like Curry lacks the ability to force points when the offense isn't clicking. That's why Durant was so important even though the team didn't seem quite as dominant after he arrived. Curry may be as elite as they come at making things easier for the rest of the team, but he seems more reliant on them than the other highest tier guys.

His numbers attacking the basket and in iso look good, but it doesn't seem like he can get points that way whenever he wants or needs to. It's more he gets them in the flow, but when the flow breaks down he has problems.

Jordan, Kareem, LeBron, Shaq, Bird, Kobe all seemed to be able to get points no matter what. They are on a separate level from Curry in that regard. Curry needs an elite I can get my own baskets guy to have sustained playoff success,and that requirement hard caps his ability to move up the all time list.

Unless he can show that he's overcome that limitation.

eminence · Post #20 » by **eminence** » Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:04 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:Top 5 in raw TS% maybe. TS% is higher today than past eras, so logically someone with high TS% in the past 5 years will have very high TS compared to players from previous styles of play.

Curry is pretty dang high in rTS% as well. Among 20+ ppg playoff scorers I want to say he's like #3 or something (Miller/Dantley). Probably some lower sample guys above him as well, I know when I ran it I was looking at 1000+ minute guys.