People are writing off LeBron the same way they write off the Spurs

[freethedevil]

LeBron in 2014/15 was 30 years old, dealing with a major back injury, rapidly declining defensively, and he had statistically the worst season of his career since his rookie season. Everyone who said that LeBron on the downside of his career and had played his best basketball was 100% justified in saying so. And everyone was saying that. Read any topic about LeBron from that season and you'll see people saying that he doesn't look like the same human being he was a year ago. Listen to what Windhorst was saying about LeBron or what 538 was writing about LeBron that season. All but the most irrational LeBron stans thought the King was cooked.

Now, it may very well be impossible for a 35 year old coming off a serious groin injury to have a bounce-back season. Certainly the historical precedent loudly states that it is foolish to even consider such a possibility. And if it were any other human, I would agree completely. But right now we're talking about the ultimate outlier. Maybe the greatest athlete of all time; a guy who takes better care of his body than anyone in human history, and everyone is saying that he can't defy the odds yet again? Well, I disagree.

It's silly to suggest lebron's resurgence was some sort of magic. His playoff resurgence came from lower level rs play. And even then, post 2016, he simply declined.

[G35]

What decline are we speaking of exactly ? I see takes like this all over the internet, social media, and this forum but I genuinely find it difficult to understand what others were seeing in relation to his alleged decline.

His efficiency dipped somewhat from 2018 to 2019, but that could very arguably be because of 1. The change from Cleveland to LA and all that entails, 2. The fact that that change called for him to play with second and third year players, and marginal role player contributors that haven’t been in their prime for some time now and 3. He was playing for a coach whose mettle and competency has been questioned, and who’s unproven as a HC.

To the first and second points I made above; when Lebron left Miami to go back to Cleveland in 2014, we saw RS dips in efficiency(FG%, 3PT %, PER, win shares) and not to insignificant degrees either — they were big drop offs from the previous season. I can give him the benefit of the doubt based on that, at least partially.

The last point I’ll make here is: if he wasn’t the best player than who was ? Giannis had a higher motor than Lebron but when it came down to it he obviously had shortcomings in his game. We don’t know what we’re looking at with KD because of the team he had around him and how that deck was stacked. How anyone can say he’s definitively the best player is beyond me. Harden also has a notable drop off from RS to PS.

Leonard is the best choice, IMO, but even he’s not as complete as Lebron is offensively and we only got to see him play the way he did in the PS because Toronto was good enough to hold down the fort without him, whereas LA couldn’t do so without Lebron.

The explanation for LeBron's decline won't be in his raw numbers. Last season was a brutal defensive year and pretty much everybody's numbers were inflated. If you watch the games though, you would've seen a player whose command on the offensive end of the floor was a far cry from what it was even a year prior (2018). He just isn't as physically capable anymore and I don't see why that would change when he'll be even older this season.

This is why I always wonder why people get fooled by stats and want to dismiss team results in a players evaluation.

Lebron WILL get his stats if he wants to. Referencing numbers does nothing in this argument for the decline of a player.

Its like saying the United States has not declined...they haven't if you look at raw numbers, #1 in GDP by far, strongest military, the #1 higher education system in the world...but it does not things have not declined, you just have to see the signs.

Lebron has declined despite whatever numbers he is able to muster. You see this at the end of every great players career, they can still put up numbers but if you look closely it takes more effort to produce the same results, and the team's potential is not as strong as it was previously when they were in their prime.

If Lebron has not declined why did he get injured and why did the team do so poorly despite a similar roster to previous years. Lebron is hailed for being able to avoid injury and being able to carry teams to at least the playoffs...neither is an accurate assessment anymore.....

[Amare_1_Knicks]

What decline are we speaking of exactly ? I see takes like this all over the internet, social media, and this forum but I genuinely find it difficult to understand what others were seeing in relation to his alleged decline.

His efficiency dipped somewhat from 2018 to 2019, but that could very arguably be because of 1. The change from Cleveland to LA and all that entails, 2. The fact that that change called for him to play with second and third year players, and marginal role player contributors that haven’t been in their prime for some time now and 3. He was playing for a coach whose mettle and competency has been questioned, and who’s unproven as a HC.

To the first and second points I made above; when Lebron left Miami to go back to Cleveland in 2014, we saw RS dips in efficiency(FG%, 3PT %, PER, win shares) and not to insignificant degrees either — they were big drop offs from the previous season. I can give him the benefit of the doubt based on that, at least partially.

The last point I’ll make here is: if he wasn’t the best player than who was ? Giannis had a higher motor than Lebron but when it came down to it he obviously had shortcomings in his game. We don’t know what we’re looking at with KD because of the team he had around him and how that deck was stacked. How anyone can say he’s definitively the best player is beyond me. Harden also has a notable drop off from RS to PS.

Leonard is the best choice, IMO, but even he’s not as complete as Lebron is offensively and we only got to see him play the way he did in the PS because Toronto was good enough to hold down the fort without him, whereas LA couldn’t do so without Lebron.

The explanation for LeBron's decline won't be in his raw numbers. Last season was a brutal defensive year and pretty much everybody's numbers were inflated. If you watch the games though, you would've seen a player whose command on the offensive end of the floor was a far cry from what it was even a year prior (2018). He just isn't as physically capable anymore and I don't see why that would change when he'll be even older this season.

This is why I always wonder why people get fooled by stats and want to dismiss team results in a players evaluation.

Lebron WILL get his stats if he wants to. Referencing numbers does nothing in this argument for the decline of a player.

Its like saying the United States has not declined...they haven't if you look at raw numbers, #1 in GDP by far, strongest military, the #1 higher education system in the world...but it does not things have not declined, you just have to see the signs.

Lebron has declined despite whatever numbers he is able to muster. You see this at the end of every great players career, they can still put up numbers but if you look closely it takes more effort to produce the same results, and the team's potential is not as strong as it was previously when they were in their prime.

If Lebron has not declined why did he get injured and why did the team do so poorly despite a similar roster to previous years. Lebron is hailed for being able to avoid injury and being able to carry teams to at least the playoffs...neither is an accurate assessment anymore.....

You’re extrapolating from the fact that he got injured that he definitely declined, and that’s not the case. Why does an injury mean that he declined ? Other players get injured all the time and it doesn’t mean they’ve declined so why MUST it be the case with Lebron ? Because he’s 34?

How did the team perform poorly ? Up until his injury he had that team, that consisted largely of second year, unproven talents, wayward veterans and an unproven HC as the number four seed in a competitive western conference. Regardless of whether the pacing/lack of defense in the league contributed to his ability to put up big numbers or not, it was clearly having an elite impact on the Lakers.

Either way, referencing the numbers does have a place here. Whether or not he appeared to decline, one thing we know is that Lebron elevates his game in the playoffs — and he does that better than anyone else. If that Lakers team was able to play even .500 basketball while he was out then he would’ve made the PS and people would have a different view of this season. It’s unbelievably reductionist to say that “he got injured and his team missed the playoffs so he’s not the best player anymore,” when there’s an overwhelming amount of context to introduce around this situation.

[Colbinii]

The explanation for LeBron's decline won't be in his raw numbers. Last season was a brutal defensive year and pretty much everybody's numbers were inflated. If you watch the games though, you would've seen a player whose command on the offensive end of the floor was a far cry from what it was even a year prior (2018). He just isn't as physically capable anymore and I don't see why that would change when he'll be even older this season.

This is why I always wonder why people get fooled by stats and want to dismiss team results in a players evaluation.

Lebron WILL get his stats if he wants to. Referencing numbers does nothing in this argument for the decline of a player.

Its like saying the United States has not declined...they haven't if you look at raw numbers, #1 in GDP by far, strongest military, the #1 higher education system in the world...but it does not things have not declined, you just have to see the signs.

Lebron has declined despite whatever numbers he is able to muster. You see this at the end of every great players career, they can still put up numbers but if you look closely it takes more effort to produce the same results, and the team's potential is not as strong as it was previously when they were in their prime.

If Lebron has not declined why did he get injured and why did the team do so poorly despite a similar roster to previous years. Lebron is hailed for being able to avoid injury and being able to carry teams to at least the playoffs...neither is an accurate assessment anymore.....

You’re extrapolating from the fact that he got injured that he definitely declined, and that’s not the case. Why does an injury mean that he declined ? Other players get injured all the time and it doesn’t mean they’ve declined so why MUST it be the case with Lebron ? Because he’s 34?

How did the team perform poorly ? Up until his injury he had that team, that consisted largely of second year, unproven talents, wayward veterans and an unproven HC as the number four seed in a competitive western conference. Regardless of whether the pacing/lack of defense in the league contributed to his ability to put up big numbers or not, it was clearly having an elite impact on the Lakers.

Either way, referencing the numbers does have a place here. Whether or not he appeared to decline, one thing we know is that Lebron elevates his game in the playoffs — and he does that better than anyone else. If that Lakers team was able to play even .500 basketball while he was out then he would’ve made the PS and people would have a different view of this season. It’s unbelievably reductionist to say that “he got injured and his team missed the playoffs so he’s not the best player anymore,” when there’s an overwhelming amount of context to introduce around this situation.

You forgot to refute the GDP analogy.

[Greyhound]

You can trust LeBron all you want. I still see him as one of the best in the game today.

People are saying he isn't the best player anymore because he wasn't the best player in the league last year. As a matter of fact he wasn't even in the discussion. Players need to prove themselves year after year after year to be considered the best. And he didn't do it.

It's up to him to prove people wrong next year. I don't think he's the best anymore, but think he can still be a top 3 player in the league and a key player on a championship team.

I have the Lakers as one of the top 3 teams... so we have to wait and see.

Rooting for him to have a great season. Hard to root for him to win a ring. I don't like the Lakers.

I get the idea that he's not the best player, but the players "ahead" of LeBron just have such glaring weaknesses LeBron really hasn't shown in the playoffs recently.

Lebron cannot anchor a defense. At best he can be a positive compliment for a true anchor liek giannis, embid, or ad. Seems like a pretty huge weakness for me.

This is nonsense.

Why does he have to anchor a defense, as a SF? Being a positive compliment is what you expect from a perimeter player. Kawhi is a great defender, but he is not anchoring anything. Jordan did not anchor a single defense in his entire career.

Young LeBron anchored the Miami Heat defense (an absolute oddity, that should be respected as such). Wing anchors... Pippen/ LeBron (end of list).

The fact that he can no longer do this rare thing (in his older age) should not be held against him?

...

As far as huge weaknesses go, this is comical.

[G35]

The explanation for LeBron's decline won't be in his raw numbers. Last season was a brutal defensive year and pretty much everybody's numbers were inflated. If you watch the games though, you would've seen a player whose command on the offensive end of the floor was a far cry from what it was even a year prior (2018). He just isn't as physically capable anymore and I don't see why that would change when he'll be even older this season.

This is why I always wonder why people get fooled by stats and want to dismiss team results in a players evaluation.

Lebron WILL get his stats if he wants to. Referencing numbers does nothing in this argument for the decline of a player.

Its like saying the United States has not declined...they haven't if you look at raw numbers, #1 in GDP by far, strongest military, the #1 higher education system in the world...but it does not things have not declined, you just have to see the signs.

Lebron has declined despite whatever numbers he is able to muster. You see this at the end of every great players career, they can still put up numbers but if you look closely it takes more effort to produce the same results, and the team's potential is not as strong as it was previously when they were in their prime.

If Lebron has not declined why did he get injured and why did the team do so poorly despite a similar roster to previous years. Lebron is hailed for being able to avoid injury and being able to carry teams to at least the playoffs...neither is an accurate assessment anymore.....

You’re extrapolating from the fact that he got injured that he definitely declined, and that’s not the case. Why does an injury mean that he declined ? Other players get injured all the time and it doesn’t mean they’ve declined so why MUST it be the case with Lebron ? Because he’s 34?

How did the team perform poorly ? Up until his injury he had that team, that consisted largely of second year, unproven talents, wayward veterans and an unproven HC as the number four seed in a competitive western conference. Regardless of whether the pacing/lack of defense in the league contributed to his ability to put up big numbers or not, it was clearly having an elite impact on the Lakers.

Either way, referencing the numbers does have a place here. Whether or not he appeared to decline, one thing we know is that Lebron elevates his game in the playoffs — and he does that better than anyone else. If that Lakers team was able to play even .500 basketball while he was out then he would’ve made the PS and people would have a different view of this season. It’s unbelievably reductionist to say that “he got injured and his team missed the playoffs so he’s not the best player anymore,” when there’s an overwhelming amount of context to introduce around this situation.

This is the disconnect.

You want to interpret that Lebron's injury was an isolated incident and should not be seen as something to be wary of in the future.

Then you also want to say that Lebron had the Lakers playing well up until the injury.

This is standard response for those who believe Lebron has not declined.


OTOH this is an opposing interpretation.

Players get injured more often, and more career threatening as they age. This has been the case throughout history in all forms of athletic competition.

Even after Lebron came back and activated playoff mode, the Lakers played poorly to the point they shut Lebron down.

Starting the season the Lakers played poorly:
- first ten games their record was 4-6
-first twenty games the record was 11-9

There were times the Lakers played well (usually against good teams) and times when they played poorly (against bad teams).

What does that mean? Well you are correct in that Lebron tends to play "up" to the level of competition. However, Lebron plays better, not the rest of the team. The rest of the team saw Lebron was up and down in his level of play with little consistency in effort. With young players you are trying to develop long term habits and chemistry, Lebron did nothing to establish anything positive.

Then the bottom fell out in the 2nd half of the season with the in season trade rumors culminating in a horrendous 5-11 record in March. What is even more damning is Lebron started picking when he was going to do load management.

Look on March 17th (Sunday) the Lakers played the Knicks at 12pm, early game start. Which the Lakers proceeded to lose and then two days later they are scheduled to play the Milwaukee Bucks on March 19th (Tuesday) and Lebron proceeds to take that game off. This is the infamous Lebron and Giannis both decide not to play game. What's sad is the Lakers did not have another game until Friday....three days later against Brooklyn.

Lebron indeed may be able to elevate his game in the playoffs, but then so will everyone else.

Its a long season, you have to get there before you can raise your game...so you are right there is a lot context to muddle through....

[freethedevil]

I get the idea that he's not the best player, but the players "ahead" of LeBron just have such glaring weaknesses LeBron really hasn't shown in the playoffs recently.

Lebron cannot anchor a defense. At best he can be a positive compliment for a true anchor liek giannis, embid, or ad. Seems like a pretty huge weakness for me.

This is nonsense.

Why does he have to anchor a defense, as a SF? .

How is his position relevant? Player who can anchor defenses are easier to build defenses around. Being able to anchor a defense makes you more impactful. Hence not being able to anchor a defense is a weakness.


Not sure how age is relevant either. We're not "writing off" 2016 lebron, we're "writing off" 2019 lebron.

[SeniorWalker]

This season LeBron James has a really good chance at winning the championship. If this does happen, this narrative that LeBron is done (just like what is said about the spurs), will prove not to be true.

Nobody said LeBron was done. What people have been saying is that LeBron is not the top player anymore. He's still an elite player, arguably top 5. But he is showing major signs of decline and is likely to continue declining from here on out.

The only people who deny this are the people who are most convinced by LeBron's ability to maintain his averages. These people seriously believe that current LeBron is just as good as he was in 2009, which is arguably the most dominant year we've ever seen from a perimeter player or in 2013 which is considered LeBron's peak as a two way player.
They think that his raw numbers being above his career averages (in an obviously very offense friendly NBA compared to even 5-6 years ago) means he's as good as he ever was. And not only that...but LeBron is likely to get better at the age of 35!

They are not paying attention to the clear signs of physical decline, which if you watched even a handful of Lakers games last year should have been plain. The increased walking up and down the court, the lack of explosion on his drives compared to even a few years ago, the very selective (if I'm being generous) defensive assignments...and for the first time in his career a significant injury that he didn't fully recover from the rest of the season. These are all red flags that a guy is getting up there in age and with every athlete who has ever competed in basketball, has indicated that they are on a decline from their career prime.

Everybody ages, even the greatest of the great. I am not wishing for LeBron to decline, it is just a natural, 100% unavoidable part of life that I am not delusional about and accept. LeBron has aged very very well in comparison to most athletes who have played but that does not make him immune. He is old by NBA standards and is in a late chapter in his career.

[G35]

This is why I always wonder why people get fooled by stats and want to dismiss team results in a players evaluation.

Lebron WILL get his stats if he wants to. Referencing numbers does nothing in this argument for the decline of a player.

Its like saying the United States has not declined...they haven't if you look at raw numbers, #1 in GDP by far, strongest military, the #1 higher education system in the world...but it does not things have not declined, you just have to see the signs.

Lebron has declined despite whatever numbers he is able to muster. You see this at the end of every great players career, they can still put up numbers but if you look closely it takes more effort to produce the same results, and the team's potential is not as strong as it was previously when they were in their prime.

If Lebron has not declined why did he get injured and why did the team do so poorly despite a similar roster to previous years. Lebron is hailed for being able to avoid injury and being able to carry teams to at least the playoffs...neither is an accurate assessment anymore.....

You’re extrapolating from the fact that he got injured that he definitely declined, and that’s not the case. Why does an injury mean that he declined ? Other players get injured all the time and it doesn’t mean they’ve declined so why MUST it be the case with Lebron ? Because he’s 34?

How did the team perform poorly ? Up until his injury he had that team, that consisted largely of second year, unproven talents, wayward veterans and an unproven HC as the number four seed in a competitive western conference. Regardless of whether the pacing/lack of defense in the league contributed to his ability to put up big numbers or not, it was clearly having an elite impact on the Lakers.

Either way, referencing the numbers does have a place here. Whether or not he appeared to decline, one thing we know is that Lebron elevates his game in the playoffs — and he does that better than anyone else. If that Lakers team was able to play even .500 basketball while he was out then he would’ve made the PS and people would have a different view of this season. It’s unbelievably reductionist to say that “he got injured and his team missed the playoffs so he’s not the best player anymore,” when there’s an overwhelming amount of context to introduce around this situation.

You forgot to refute the GDP analogy.

You know what GDP means? Bravo, perhaps we can come to a middle ground instead of this childish low-key sniping......

[Colbinii]

You’re extrapolating from the fact that he got injured that he definitely declined, and that’s not the case. Why does an injury mean that he declined ? Other players get injured all the time and it doesn’t mean they’ve declined so why MUST it be the case with Lebron ? Because he’s 34?

How did the team perform poorly ? Up until his injury he had that team, that consisted largely of second year, unproven talents, wayward veterans and an unproven HC as the number four seed in a competitive western conference. Regardless of whether the pacing/lack of defense in the league contributed to his ability to put up big numbers or not, it was clearly having an elite impact on the Lakers.

Either way, referencing the numbers does have a place here. Whether or not he appeared to decline, one thing we know is that Lebron elevates his game in the playoffs — and he does that better than anyone else. If that Lakers team was able to play even .500 basketball while he was out then he would’ve made the PS and people would have a different view of this season. It’s unbelievably reductionist to say that “he got injured and his team missed the playoffs so he’s not the best player anymore,” when there’s an overwhelming amount of context to introduce around this situation.

You forgot to refute the GDP analogy.

You know what GDP means? Bravo, perhaps we can come to a middle ground instead of this childish low-key sniping......

Yup-- arguably the worst and outdated statistical measure of economical well-being we have.

I did think the analogy was good though but I came to a different conclusion than you did watching LeBron James last season.

[jdzimme3]

Lebron is still the best player in the game. Regular season Lebron had the Lakers on pace for around 50 wins and the 3rd/4th seed before his injury..and that was with a cast of young misfits and a core with terrible shooting. Had they made the playoffs Playoff Lebron would have done some serious damage as usual.

The core around Lebron last season was an awful fit. He needs spacing and Magic was an idiot and surrounded him with a bunch of garbage shooters...and Lebron still went off offensively.

A lot of people dislike Lebron and have been waiting for years for Lebron to be "finished" and jump at the chance to prematurely proclaim it. Lebron will prove them wrong again next season.

The lakers schedule was front loaded with trash teams. If you project out the entirety of Lebron games last year they don’t make the playoffs even if he plays all 82.

That said, we shouldn’t expect Lebron not to decline. If he doesn’t that is part of his greatness .


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[Pelly24]

This season LeBron James has a really good chance at winning the championship. If this does happen, this narrative that LeBron is done (just like what is said about the spurs), will prove not to be true.

Nobody said LeBron was done. What people have been saying is that LeBron is not the top player anymore. He's still an elite player, arguably top 5. But he is showing major signs of decline and is likely to continue declining from here on out.

The only people who deny this are the people who are most convinced by LeBron's ability to maintain his averages. These people seriously believe that current LeBron is just as good as he was in 2009, which is arguably the most dominant year we've ever seen from a perimeter player or in 2013 which is considered LeBron's peak as a two way player.
They think that his raw numbers being above his career averages (in an obviously very offense friendly NBA compared to even 5-6 years ago) means he's as good as he ever was. And not only that...but LeBron is likely to get better at the age of 35!

They are not paying attention to the clear signs of physical decline, which if you watched even a handful of Lakers games last year should have been plain. The increased walking up and down the court, the lack of explosion on his drives compared to even a few years ago, the very selective (if I'm being generous) defensive assignments...and for the first time in his career a significant injury that he didn't fully recover from the rest of the season. These are all red flags that a guy is getting up there in age and with every athlete who has ever competed in basketball, has indicated that they are on a decline from their career prime.

Everybody ages, even the greatest of the great. I am not wishing for LeBron to decline, it is just a natural, 100% unavoidable part of life that I am not delusional about and accept. LeBron has aged very very well in comparison to most athletes who have played but that does not make him immune. He is old by NBA standards and is in a late chapter in his career.

Put LeBron on the Raptors this year and you get the same outcome. Kawhi didn't anchor any defense in the playoffs. Kawhi's still a notch and a half less athletic than LeBron while also being better at scoring, which Kawhi is best at as far as his own game.


Everyone who watched the Cavs knows LeBron coasts during the regular season. The lakers were an awfully constructed team. it just seems like a case of confirmation bias. He looked completely fine physically by the end of the year. I'd love to see him play 65 games max this year and 33 mpg and get 26/8/8 and dominate in the playoffs. If Kuzma or Boogie can step up and be reliable third options and there's enough shooting and Rondo can faciliate an above average offense with a bench unit of Boogie, Rondo and Kuzma, Lakers would be in great shape.

[Ainosterhaspie]

They are not paying attention to the clear signs of physical decline, which if you watched even a handful of Lakers games last year should have been plain. The increased walking up and down the court, the lack of explosion on his drives compared to even a few years ago, the very selective (if I'm being generous) defensive assignments...and for the first time in his career a significant injury that he didn't fully recover from the rest of the season. These are all red flags that a guy is getting up there in age and with every athlete who has ever competed in basketball, has indicated that they are on a decline from their career prime.

Everybody ages, even the greatest of the great. I am not wishing for LeBron to decline, it is just a natural, 100% unavoidable part of life that I am not delusional about and accept. LeBron has aged very very well in comparison to most athletes who have played but that does not make him immune. He is old by NBA standards and is in a late chapter in his career.

I've seen the physical decline since 2015. That year he was dealing with an injury and he looked better in 2016, but 2016 still showed less athleticism than the Heat era. In 2017 though it accelerated significantly, and the decline has continued unabated as it does for everyone.

He's done a good job of using a refined skill set to maintain effectiveness as athleticism fades, but it is plain to see he isn't what he once was at all anymore. Lucky for him size and basketball IQ don't fade.

[G35]

You forgot to refute the GDP analogy.

You know what GDP means? Bravo, perhaps we can come to a middle ground instead of this childish low-key sniping......

Yup-- arguably the worst and outdated statistical measure of economical well-being we have.

I did think the analogy was good though but I came to a different conclusion than you did watching LeBron James last season.

It always amuses me when people post their opinions without any reference or support as if it means something.

Your opinion means nothing and even less without supporting information.

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/what-is-gdp-why-its-important-to-economists-investors/

Gross domestic product (GDP) is one of the most common indicators used to track the health of a nation's economy. It includes a number of different factors such as consumption and investment. In this short article, we look at why GDP is such an important economic factor, and what it means for both economists and investors.

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/121213/gdp-and-its-importance.asp

Gross Domestic Product (GDP) is one of the most widely used measures of an economy’s output or production. It is defined as the total value of goods and services produced within a country’s borders in a specific time period — monthly, quarterly or annually. GDP is an accurate indication of an economy's size. The GDP growth rate is probably the single best indicator of economic growth. However, GDP per capita has a close correlation with the trend in living standards over time.

GDP is like PER...it is commonly used, heavily criticized, but is a common starting point. PER is simpler to understand and use when talking to larger groups. If during a national broadcast a commentator decided to use an advanced metric PER would likely be the choice since using other advanced metrics will likely confuse and bore the general audience.

When trying to get a message across keeping that message simple is more effective than trying to show off how much you know with convoluted metrics...the message ends up being your a nerd and depend on numbers to make your points....

[Bidofo]

You know what GDP means? Bravo, perhaps we can come to a middle ground instead of this childish low-key sniping......

Yup-- arguably the worst and outdated statistical measure of economical well-being we have.

I did think the analogy was good though but I came to a different conclusion than you did watching LeBron James last season.

It always amuses me when people post their opinions without any reference or support as if it means something.

Your opinion means nothing and even less without supporting information.

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/what-is-gdp-why-its-important-to-economists-investors/

Gross domestic product (GDP) is one of the most common indicators used to track the health of a nation's economy. It includes a number of different factors such as consumption and investment. In this short article, we look at why GDP is such an important economic factor, and what it means for both economists and investors.

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/121213/gdp-and-its-importance.asp

Gross Domestic Product (GDP) is one of the most widely used measures of an economy’s output or production. It is defined as the total value of goods and services produced within a country’s borders in a specific time period — monthly, quarterly or annually. GDP is an accurate indication of an economy's size. The GDP growth rate is probably the single best indicator of economic growth. However, GDP per capita has a close correlation with the trend in living standards over time.

GDP is like PER...it is commonly used, heavily criticized, but is a common starting point. PER is simpler to understand and use when talking to larger groups. If during a national broadcast a commentator decided to use an advanced metric PER would likely be the choice since using other advanced metrics will likely confuse and bore the general audience.

When trying to get a message across keeping that message simple is more effective than trying to show off how much you know with convoluted metrics...the message ends up being your a nerd and depend on numbers to make your points....

In an attempt to refute the claim that GDP is arguably the worst and most outdated statistical measure, you compare it to...PER, arguably the worst (relative to how often it’s used by the public and media) and most outdated statistical measure in basketball? Not sure if that helps your case.

Nevermind the fact that none of your snips there disprove that claim. All they say really is that GDP is commonly used...as is PER. That doesn’t make them useful or accurate statistics.

[SeniorWalker]

This season LeBron James has a really good chance at winning the championship. If this does happen, this narrative that LeBron is done (just like what is said about the spurs), will prove not to be true.

Nobody said LeBron was done. What people have been saying is that LeBron is not the top player anymore. He's still an elite player, arguably top 5. But he is showing major signs of decline and is likely to continue declining from here on out.

The only people who deny this are the people who are most convinced by LeBron's ability to maintain his averages. These people seriously believe that current LeBron is just as good as he was in 2009, which is arguably the most dominant year we've ever seen from a perimeter player or in 2013 which is considered LeBron's peak as a two way player.
They think that his raw numbers being above his career averages (in an obviously very offense friendly NBA compared to even 5-6 years ago) means he's as good as he ever was. And not only that...but LeBron is likely to get better at the age of 35!

They are not paying attention to the clear signs of physical decline, which if you watched even a handful of Lakers games last year should have been plain. The increased walking up and down the court, the lack of explosion on his drives compared to even a few years ago, the very selective (if I'm being generous) defensive assignments...and for the first time in his career a significant injury that he didn't fully recover from the rest of the season. These are all red flags that a guy is getting up there in age and with every athlete who has ever competed in basketball, has indicated that they are on a decline from their career prime.

Everybody ages, even the greatest of the great. I am not wishing for LeBron to decline, it is just a natural, 100% unavoidable part of life that I am not delusional about and accept. LeBron has aged very very well in comparison to most athletes who have played but that does not make him immune. He is old by NBA standards and is in a late chapter in his career.

Put LeBron on the Raptors this year and you get the same outcome.

Put LeBron on the 2019 Raptors and they likely don't make it past Philly. Kawhi is a better mid range pull up jumpshooter than LeBron (and him repeatedly attacking in the midrange is what lifted his team in the series), who has always been very streaky at that. Kawhi in 2019 was simply a better player than LeBron was, period. Even in the 2018 playoffs (in which he was very great offensively) LeBron was a defensive liability, and you still have people pretending that he's no worse than Kawhi who has never ever been that bad. And this is not even taking into account fit with LeBron James's style of play. If one put LeBron on this year's Raptors what most likely would have happened is that they would have been knocked out early and then the media would blame his teammates saying he didn't have enough help.

People like yourself who think you can just plug LeBron into any situation and he'll automatically make it better (at this stage in his career especially) are going to be surprised when you see LeBron not quite able to reach the level he used to. Those moments when he used to turn up a gear instantly will become less frequent and even at his best it won't be as dominant as it once was. You really should already be seeing the beginning of this but it will become much more apparent over the next year or so. It is to be expected; it is merely time and time always wins. LeBron has a lot of fanboy worshippers here and everywhere much like MJ did in the 90s, so some of you will refuse to see it until he'll be nearly retired.