2017 Cavs vs 2018 Rockets

[JVC1011]

Houston HCA for the better Regular Season.. who ya got?

[Franco]

I think the Rockets have worse matchup problems with us than the other way around. I’ll try to go into more detail later, but I’m taking Cleveland in 6 or 7.

[Lost92Bricks]

That Cavs team is so overrated. One of the worst defensive teams in the league that year.

They faced mediocre Raptors and Celtics teams with their best players missing most of the series. Then as soon as they faced the Warriors they couldn't even make the series competitive. They got torched. Their only win came after they went down 3-0 and the series was already over.

The Rockets were one of the most explosive offenses ever. How is the Cavs' defense supposed to slow them down in any way? Harden would just put Love and Irving in every screen & roll and score easily.

[RCM88x]

The Cavs are a better team but the Rockets match up well against them. I trust Lebron significantly more than Harden and Paul though, and I think Love would have been more useful against Houston than GS.

[RCM88x]

That Cavs team is so overrated. One of the worst defensive teams in the league that year.

They faced mediocre Raptors and Celtics teams with their best players missing most of the series. Then as soon as they faced the Warriors they couldn't even make the series competitive. They got torched. Their only win came after they went down 3-0 and the series was already over.

The Rockets were one of the most explosive offenses ever. How is the Cavs' defense supposed to slow them down in any way? Harden would just put Love and Irving in every screen & roll and score easily.

The 2017 Cavs played the 2017 GSW closer than the 2018 Rockets played the 2018 GSW based on points differential.

Rockets were -9.6 against GS in 2018, the Cavs were a -6.7 to the 2017 Warriors. The 2017 Finals just as easily could have gone 7 games as the 2018 WCF could have gone 5.

[Lost92Bricks]

The 2017 Cavs played the 2017 GSW closer than the 2018 Rockets played the 2018 GSW based on points differential.

Rockets were -9.6 against GS in 2018, the Cavs were a -6.7 to the 2017 Warriors. The 2017 Finals just as easily could have gone 7 games as the 2018 WCF could have gone 5.

That's only because CP3 got injured and didn't play in games 6 and 7.

The Cavs had their whole core healthy and still lost in 5 games lol. And that's deceptive since the series was already over after game 3.

[Dr Spaceman]

Just looking at team quality it’s Houston and isn’t close. Those Rockets went on a stretch where they were 32-3 with the #1 offense and #2 defense.

That said the King is on the other side and that alone makes it close. I’d have the Rockets as slight favorites but would actually favor the Cavs in a G7 even on the road.

[KTM_2813]

To me, this comparison comes down to defense. The 2017 Cavs were terrible in the regular season and "merely" pretty good in the playoffs. By comparison, the 2018 Rockets were a really good defensive squad throughout. I voted Houston.

[freethedevil]

Rockets clearly.

[freethedevil]

The 2017 Cavs played the 2017 GSW closer than the 2018 Rockets played the 2018 GSW based on points differential.

Rockets were -9.6 against GS in 2018, the Cavs were a -6.7 to the 2017 Warriors. The 2017 Finals just as easily could have gone 7 games as the 2018 WCF could have gone 5.

That's only because CP3 got injured and didn't play in games 6 and 7.

The Cavs had their whole core healthy and still lost in 5 games lol. And that's deceptive since the series was already over after game 3.

The rockets also were also missing their 5th man in demounte.

[RCM88x]

The 2017 Cavs played the 2017 GSW closer than the 2018 Rockets played the 2018 GSW based on points differential.

Rockets were -9.6 against GS in 2018, the Cavs were a -6.7 to the 2017 Warriors. The 2017 Finals just as easily could have gone 7 games as the 2018 WCF could have gone 5.

That's only because CP3 got injured and didn't play in games 6 and 7.

The Cavs had their whole core healthy and still lost in 5 games lol. And that's deceptive since the series was already over after game 3.

The rockets also were also missing their 5th man in demounte.

And GS was missing theirs.

[Dr Spaceman]

That's only because CP3 got injured and didn't play in games 6 and 7.

The Cavs had their whole core healthy and still lost in 5 games lol. And that's deceptive since the series was already over after game 3.

The rockets also were also missing their 5th man in demounte.

And GS was missing theirs.

Point being through the five games Paul played the Rockets were -5, not -9, and that’s due to the crazy 41 point loss which involved a lot of garbage time (Rox starters were around -20 and played only 30 minutes) but most importantly the Rockets were up 3 games to 2 in the series.

[RCM88x]

The rockets also were also missing their 5th man in demounte.

And GS was missing theirs.

Point being through the five games Paul played the Rockets were -5, not -9, and that’s due to the crazy 41 point loss which involved a lot of garbage time (Rox starters were around -20 and played only 30 minutes) but most importantly the Rockets were up 3 games to 2 in the series.

Sure, I'm not trying to argue the Cavs played the Warriors better than Houston did, only that statistically it really isn't that big of a difference. Saying the 2017 Finals was some massive blowout series while the 2018 WCF was an extremely tight series is just not really true. Regardless, the Warriors were not as good in 2018 as in 2017, at any point.

Even if we just look at Houston as a whole in the playoffs outside of those games without Paul vs. Cleveland, the Cavs rate better across the board. Sure Minnesota and Utah are probably better than Indiana and Boston, but it's not like we're talking about the '96 Bulls vs. '12 Bobcats here. All four of those teams were average playoff teams lead by flawed players. Even so, the Cavs blew out their opponents as much or more so than the Rockets did.

I mean they beat the top two teams in the Eastern Conference in 9 games total by and average of 18ppg, and were the only team to get a game from GS, and easily could have had two.

Sure Houston played GS to 7 in the playoffs, but that was a much worse version of GS that had already lost multiple playoff games to average teams.

Regular season is meaningless here, I don't think anyone can actually believe that RS numbers hold any weight in this matchup.

[Lost92Bricks]

I'm watching the 2018 WCF right now and there is no way the Cavs could've locked up the Warriors like the Rockets did in games 2, 4 and 5. The Warriors didn't even look like the same team.

Tucker, Paul, Ariza, Mbah A Moute, Capela, Gordon...tell me all these defenders on that Cavs team that could lock down any elite offensive team, much less the greatest offensive team of all-time.

[freethedevil]

And GS was missing theirs.

Point being through the five games Paul played the Rockets were -5, not -9, and that’s due to the crazy 41 point loss which involved a lot of garbage time (Rox starters were around -20 and played only 30 minutes) but most importantly the Rockets were up 3 games to 2 in the series.

Regular season is meaningless here, I don't think anyone can actually believe that RS numbers hold any weight in this matchup.

bull. The RS remains the best predictor of playoff success. The 2018 warriors when healthy played at a near 70 win pace. The rockets played at a 70+ win pace. Coicidentally their playoff matchup was one of equals with the warriors eeking out a win wit the rockets more injured then they were.

The cavs at their best played at a 60 win pace and have only been competitive with the warriors post 2015 with the help of numerous circumstantial events. The only real argument i can see for the 2017 cavs is the assertion that the 2017 warriors were far better than the 2018 ones, and frankly, while there was a dip, nothing suggests it was a massive one.

[freethedevil]

That's only because CP3 got injured and didn't play in games 6 and 7.

The Cavs had their whole core healthy and still lost in 5 games lol. And that's deceptive since the series was already over after game 3.

The rockets also were also missing their 5th man in demounte.

And GS was missing theirs.

For part of the series. The rockets missed their man for the entire series. Add the cp injury and there's no debate regarding who was benefiting from injury more. It took everything for the warriors to beat the rox. It would have taken everything going right for the cavs to push the warriors to 6.

[RCM88x]

Point being through the five games Paul played the Rockets were -5, not -9, and that’s due to the crazy 41 point loss which involved a lot of garbage time (Rox starters were around -20 and played only 30 minutes) but most importantly the Rockets were up 3 games to 2 in the series.

Regular season is meaningless here, I don't think anyone can actually believe that RS numbers hold any weight in this matchup.

bull. The RS remains the best predictor of playoff success. The 2018 warriors when healthy played at a near 70 win pace. The rockets played at a 70+ win pace. Coicidentally their playoff matchup was one of equals with the warriors eeking out a win wit the rockets more injured then they were.

The cavs at their best played at a 60 win pace and have only been competitive with the warriors post 2015 with the help of numerous circumstantial events. The only real argument i can see for the 2017 cavs is the assertion that the 2017 warriors were far better than the 2018 ones, and frankly, while there was a dip, nothing suggests it was a massive one.

The 2017 Warriors had a 11.35 SRS, 2nd highest ever.
The 2018 Warriors had an 5.79 SRS, a level usually hit once a year or more.

You say that there wasn't a massive dip, yet also say regular season remains the best predictor of playoff success. So which is it?

And we're talking about the Cavs here, if any team defines traditional RS to PS prediction it's this team. I honestly can't take anyone seriously who believe the Cavs were the same team in the regular season as the playoffs that year. There's pretty much no comparison.

Any old 51 win team doesn't just walk to a 12-1 playoffs record through three rounds, while posting an SRS over 15.

[Franco]

The 2017 Cavs played the 2017 GSW closer than the 2018 Rockets played the 2018 GSW based on points differential.

Rockets were -9.6 against GS in 2018, the Cavs were a -6.7 to the 2017 Warriors. The 2017 Finals just as easily could have gone 7 games as the 2018 WCF could have gone 5.

That's only because CP3 got injured and didn't play in games 6 and 7.

The Cavs had their whole core healthy and still lost in 5 games lol. And that's deceptive since the series was already over after game 3.

I’m fairly sure most people thought the 2016 series was over after game 4 too.

[Franco]

The rockets also were also missing their 5th man in demounte.

And GS was missing theirs.

For part of the series. The rockets missed their man for the entire series. Add the cp injury and there's no debate regarding who was benefiting from injury more. It took everything for the warriors to beat the rox. It would have taken everything going right for the cavs to push the warriors to 6.

This is where you know someone didn’t watch that series at all. Game 3 was basically ours, and GS stole the game at the the very end. It wouldn’t take any “miracle” for that series to go 6.

[Lost92Bricks]

I’m fairly sure most people thought the 2016 series was over after game 4 too.

That was 3-1, teams have came back from that even before the Cavs.

Nobody has ever came back from 3-0. It was 100% over after KD hit that shot in game 3.

The Rockets by game 2 already made it a more competitive series by blowing the Warriors out and tying it up.