What Year Did LeBron Surpass Kobe?

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G35
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Re: What Year Did LeBron Surpass Kobe? 

Post#81 » by G35 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:36 pm

Colbinii wrote:
G35 wrote:The year when Lebron won his 5th ring he got into the conversation...when Lebron won his 6th ring he passed him up.....



It's a shame neither Kobe nor LeBron can hold a candle to John Havlicek. Hell, neither can Jordan.



No shame, just gotta know your place.....
I'm so tired of the typical......
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Re: What Year Did LeBron Surpass Kobe? 

Post#82 » by 1993Playoffs » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:44 pm

Eons ago, (2009 lol)
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Re: What Year Did LeBron Surpass Kobe? 

Post#83 » by Arman_tanzarian » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:25 pm

09 but you saw instances earlier that he could reach a level that Kobe couldn't.
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Re: What Year Did LeBron Surpass Kobe? 

Post#84 » by Colbinii » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:39 pm

G35 wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
G35 wrote:The year when Lebron won his 5th ring he got into the conversation...when Lebron won his 6th ring he passed him up.....



It's a shame neither Kobe nor LeBron can hold a candle to John Havlicek. Hell, neither can Jordan.



No shame, just gotta know your place.....


Or learn how to think but that's asking a lot for some people...
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Re: What Year Did LeBron Surpass Kobe? 

Post#85 » by Ainosterhaspie » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:43 pm

iggymcfrack wrote:
KTM_2813 wrote:
Colbinii wrote:Actually Gooner, the results show the exact opposite.

2014 Wade w/ LeBron: +2.5 Points Per 100
2014 Wade w/o LeBron: -7.6 Points per 100

In fact when looking into it further
for the 2014 post-season when Wade was without LeBron, Wade's individual statistics increased but the team performance, especially defensively, plummeted.

In 2013 we see Wade struggle to score without James, especially in the restricted area.

In 2012 we see an even larger dip in the Heat's performance with James and Wade at the helm.


Obviously Wade played worse without LeBron... Under The King's tyrannical reign, his relentless ball-dominance actually makes his teammates forget how to play basketball, and then when their number is called, they fold like LeBron under pressure.


Giving you an And-1 here with the benefit of the doubt that you’re being sarcastic. Hopefully I’m giving you that credit appropriately.


You're not. Post history confirms. It's not sarcasm.*
--

People like to do into the "LeBron is too ball dominant bag for the Miami years where if anything he wasn't ball dominant enough. He played differently in Miami than Cleveland mark 2 but can't let that fact get in the way of a good narrative.

*Edit. Sorry KTM, I was mixing you up with another poster with three all caps letters to start the name.
My GOATs 1.LBJ/2.Jordan/3.KAJ/4.Duncan/5.Magic
Russell and Wilt grandfathered in at 6 and 7.

Yes I watched Jordan live, started paying attention to basketball in the bad boys era.

I respect Jordan way more now than I did when he played.
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Re: What Year Did LeBron Surpass Kobe? 

Post#86 » by KTM_2813 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:48 pm

Ainosterhaspie wrote:
iggymcfrack wrote:
KTM_2813 wrote:
Obviously Wade played worse without LeBron... Under The King's tyrannical reign, his relentless ball-dominance actually makes his teammates forget how to play basketball, and then when their number is called, they fold like LeBron under pressure.


Giving you an And-1 here with the benefit of the doubt that you’re being sarcastic. Hopefully I’m giving you that credit appropriately.


You're not. Post history confirms. It's not sarcasm.

--

People like to do into the "LeBron is to ball dominant bag for the Miami years where if anything he wasn't ball dominant enough. He played differently in Miami than Cleveland mark 2 but can't let that fact get in the way of a good narrative.


Err... What? Of course I was being sarcastic. And was that post below the "--" supposed to be from me? That doesn't sound like something I'd say. I'm a pretty vocal critic of the "LeBron Ball" nonsense and I've butted heads with Gooner and his ilk many times in the past. Either I'm incredibly confused (which is very likely) or you messed something up here. :lol:
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Re: What Year Did LeBron Surpass Kobe? 

Post#87 » by mcraft » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:58 pm

Colbinii wrote:
G35 wrote:
Colbinii wrote:

It's a shame neither Kobe nor LeBron can hold a candle to John Havlicek. Hell, neither can Jordan.



No shame, just gotta know your place.....


Or learn how to think but that's asking a lot for some people...
Honestly I find the ring approach quite interesting. At some point actual on the court play has to be evaluated and included because otherwise how would you choose between Magic, Duncan or Kobe. Or Jordan and Kareem. Otherwise Jordan is nowhere close to goat and Russell is hands down the goat.
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Re: What Year Did LeBron Surpass Kobe? 

Post#88 » by toodles23 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:07 pm

iggymcfrack wrote:
Gooner wrote:
iggymcfrack wrote:
Dirk’s my favorite player of all-time and he was really, really good in 2011, but he also got way more help that Finals than LeBron did in 2014. LeBron scored 2 more PPG on 3 less FGA and 2 less FTA per game, he got twice as many assists and he played much better defense.


LeBron gets his stats at the expense of his teammates, that's the difference. His results show it. I don't believe Dirk is your favourite player of all time, but that's neither her nor there.


Spoiler:
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuck you. You’re gonna tell me who my favorite player is? I started rooting for the Mavs as a 9 year old with the 3 Js. The big 4th quarter comeback in Game 5 against the Stockton/Malone Jazz when Dirk and Finley were young was my first big moment of success with them and it was magical. My first favorite player was actually Shawn Bradley. I always thought it was bull how everyone made fun of him and acted like he didn’t have any skill just because he was tall. By the time I got to around 2006, Dirk was the only player who had even been on the team for any length of time so of course he was my favorite player. Game 7 against the Spurs that year was maybe my most memorable game ever. The Mavs had always come up just short against the Spurs year after year after year so for Dirk to completely outplay Duncan at his peak on the road in a Game 7 was almost orgasmic. I still remember that 3-point play like it was yesterday. Then they got the championship stolen with that terrible refereeing and I really hated Wade for a while. I don’t think people actually remember who bad it was. Unless the defender had been set for like 2 full seconds any contact was automatic free throws for the offense.

By 2011, it seemed like the championship window was mostly closed so that was a magical run. Sweeping the 2-time defending champions until Bynum tried to kill Barea, Dirk’s near-perfect game against OKC where he went 21 for 21, and of course the Finals. I’d gotten to like LeBron a little bit and grown some grudging respect for Wade, but then when they made fun of Dirk for getting sick, it was like **** them all over again. Dirk definitely had a really good series and had some big 4th quarters early, but the role players stepped up a lot too. If you remember, in Game 6, Dirk was actually awful and missed like 11 of his first 12 or something and JET just carried them in until by the time Dirk made a couple late shots they didn’t even really need them. I watched the game on the casino floor at the Rio in Vegas and couldn’t believe it for hours afterward. Finally went out for steaks with an old friend to celebrate.

After that, I definitely rooted for LeBron in 2012 and was maybe 1/3 as happy to see him get a ring as I’d been for Dirk the previous year. I also finally got to the point where I could actually root for the Spurs as the Mavs’ history with them didn’t seem to matter any more now that Dirk had a ring and they were playing beautiful basketball. Felt like they got screwed by the refs pretty bad in Game 6 against the Thunder. By 2013, I was all over the Spurs bandwagon as the more talented, underrated team and I bet them the whole way against the Heat, rooting for them in Games 1-6. Then I got to Game 7, and I’m like “wait a minute, there’s no way LeBron’s losing a Game 7 at home, why not switch sides and bet on LeBron? So I did and it was super fun. The next year, the talent gap was much heavier on the Spurs side and I couldn’t believe the Finals were going off at even money so I really loaded up and bet on them probably harder than any Finals ever. LeBron had a fantastic series and it didn’t make a whit of difference because the Spurs were just too good.

I bet on the Warriors in the 2015 Finals and rooted for them as the hot new thing that also seemed like they should be the better team. The Mavs were still my favorite team but by 2016 they weren’t much of a contender to even make the playoffs, and the Warriors were must see TV every night. Finally, I’m like “why pretend like the Mavs are still my favorite team?” I wouldn’t even care if they were on. But I don’t want to miss a single Warriors game. I guess they’re my favorite team now. But I rooted hard for Dirk for 15 years and even last year when he had his moment at the all-star game he warmed my heart. I’m never gonna care about another basketball player like I did for him.

I’m generally much better at being objective about my favorite players than a lot of people though. For instance, as much as I hated Wade for years, I still have him at #14 or #15 on my all-time list and I only have Dirk at #16. LeBron I did root for a lot, especially in his first Cleveland run, but I really only was on his side in about half of his finals. The reason I have him as the GOAT is just because I objectively believe it to be so.


I saw this gem from Gooner yesterday on the General Board. Lets you know he's not exactly coming from a place of sound logic and reason.

Gooner wrote:Kyrie should definitely shut up and dribble. I like his game, and I even think he is intelligent, but not as much as he think he is. All he does is promote luciferianism, and so does LeBron. It would be the best for his sake if he focused just on basketball, when it comes to public life.
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Re: What Year Did LeBron Surpass Kobe? 

Post#89 » by Colbinii » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:19 pm

toodles23 wrote:
iggymcfrack wrote:
Gooner wrote:
LeBron gets his stats at the expense of his teammates, that's the difference. His results show it. I don't believe Dirk is your favourite player of all time, but that's neither her nor there.


Spoiler:
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuck you. You’re gonna tell me who my favorite player is? I started rooting for the Mavs as a 9 year old with the 3 Js. The big 4th quarter comeback in Game 5 against the Stockton/Malone Jazz when Dirk and Finley were young was my first big moment of success with them and it was magical. My first favorite player was actually Shawn Bradley. I always thought it was bull how everyone made fun of him and acted like he didn’t have any skill just because he was tall. By the time I got to around 2006, Dirk was the only player who had even been on the team for any length of time so of course he was my favorite player. Game 7 against the Spurs that year was maybe my most memorable game ever. The Mavs had always come up just short against the Spurs year after year after year so for Dirk to completely outplay Duncan at his peak on the road in a Game 7 was almost orgasmic. I still remember that 3-point play like it was yesterday. Then they got the championship stolen with that terrible refereeing and I really hated Wade for a while. I don’t think people actually remember who bad it was. Unless the defender had been set for like 2 full seconds any contact was automatic free throws for the offense.

By 2011, it seemed like the championship window was mostly closed so that was a magical run. Sweeping the 2-time defending champions until Bynum tried to kill Barea, Dirk’s near-perfect game against OKC where he went 21 for 21, and of course the Finals. I’d gotten to like LeBron a little bit and grown some grudging respect for Wade, but then when they made fun of Dirk for getting sick, it was like **** them all over again. Dirk definitely had a really good series and had some big 4th quarters early, but the role players stepped up a lot too. If you remember, in Game 6, Dirk was actually awful and missed like 11 of his first 12 or something and JET just carried them in until by the time Dirk made a couple late shots they didn’t even really need them. I watched the game on the casino floor at the Rio in Vegas and couldn’t believe it for hours afterward. Finally went out for steaks with an old friend to celebrate.

After that, I definitely rooted for LeBron in 2012 and was maybe 1/3 as happy to see him get a ring as I’d been for Dirk the previous year. I also finally got to the point where I could actually root for the Spurs as the Mavs’ history with them didn’t seem to matter any more now that Dirk had a ring and they were playing beautiful basketball. Felt like they got screwed by the refs pretty bad in Game 6 against the Thunder. By 2013, I was all over the Spurs bandwagon as the more talented, underrated team and I bet them the whole way against the Heat, rooting for them in Games 1-6. Then I got to Game 7, and I’m like “wait a minute, there’s no way LeBron’s losing a Game 7 at home, why not switch sides and bet on LeBron? So I did and it was super fun. The next year, the talent gap was much heavier on the Spurs side and I couldn’t believe the Finals were going off at even money so I really loaded up and bet on them probably harder than any Finals ever. LeBron had a fantastic series and it didn’t make a whit of difference because the Spurs were just too good.

I bet on the Warriors in the 2015 Finals and rooted for them as the hot new thing that also seemed like they should be the better team. The Mavs were still my favorite team but by 2016 they weren’t much of a contender to even make the playoffs, and the Warriors were must see TV every night. Finally, I’m like “why pretend like the Mavs are still my favorite team?” I wouldn’t even care if they were on. But I don’t want to miss a single Warriors game. I guess they’re my favorite team now. But I rooted hard for Dirk for 15 years and even last year when he had his moment at the all-star game he warmed my heart. I’m never gonna care about another basketball player like I did for him.

I’m generally much better at being objective about my favorite players than a lot of people though. For instance, as much as I hated Wade for years, I still have him at #14 or #15 on my all-time list and I only have Dirk at #16. LeBron I did root for a lot, especially in his first Cleveland run, but I really only was on his side in about half of his finals. The reason I have him as the GOAT is just because I objectively believe it to be so.


I saw this gem from Gooner yesterday on the General Board. Lets you know he's not exactly coming from a place of sound logic and reason.

Gooner wrote:Kyrie should definitely shut up and dribble. I like his game, and I even think he is intelligent, but not as much as he think he is. All he does is promote luciferianism, and so does LeBron. It would be the best for his sake if he focused just on basketball, when it comes to public life.


The only people I have ever heard say "Shut up and dribble" have been racist correspondents to Fox News.
tsherkin wrote:Locked due to absence of adult conversation.


penbeast0 wrote:Guys, if you don't have anything to say, don't post.


E-Balla wrote:LeBron is Jeff George.
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Re: What Year Did LeBron Surpass Kobe? 

Post#90 » by Colbinii » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:21 pm

mcraft wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
G35 wrote:

No shame, just gotta know your place.....


Or learn how to think but that's asking a lot for some people...
Honestly I find the ring approach quite interesting. At some point actual on the court play has to be evaluated and included because otherwise how would you choose between Magic, Duncan or Kobe. Or Jordan and Kareem. Otherwise Jordan is nowhere close to goat and Russell is hands down the goat.


I think it holds merit if you say "Player X was capable of leading a team to a ring but player y isn't " but given how many variables there are in a team sport like basketball one would need to first prove player y is incapable of leading a team to a ring in the first place. At that point we are no longer talking about rings and talking about on court play though, thus making the whole "how many rings on each hand" argument completely bypassable.
tsherkin wrote:Locked due to absence of adult conversation.


penbeast0 wrote:Guys, if you don't have anything to say, don't post.


E-Balla wrote:LeBron is Jeff George.
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Re: What Year Did LeBron Surpass Kobe? 

Post#91 » by mcraft » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:23 pm

Colbinii wrote:
mcraft wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
Or learn how to think but that's asking a lot for some people...
Honestly I find the ring approach quite interesting. At some point actual on the court play has to be evaluated and included because otherwise how would you choose between Magic, Duncan or Kobe. Or Jordan and Kareem. Otherwise Jordan is nowhere close to goat and Russell is hands down the goat.


I think it holds merit if you say "Player X was capable of leading a team to a ring but player y isn't " but given how many variables there are in a team sport like basketball one would need to first prove player y is incapable of leading a team to a ring in the first place. At that point we are no longer talking about rings and talking about on court play though, thus making the whole "how many rings on each hand" argument completely bypassable.
I agree. There is so many things involved, but it makes the discussion interesting.
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Re: What Year Did LeBron Surpass Kobe? 

Post#92 » by Colbinii » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:26 pm

mcraft wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
mcraft wrote:Honestly I find the ring approach quite interesting. At some point actual on the court play has to be evaluated and included because otherwise how would you choose between Magic, Duncan or Kobe. Or Jordan and Kareem. Otherwise Jordan is nowhere close to goat and Russell is hands down the goat.


I think it holds merit if you say "Player X was capable of leading a team to a ring but player y isn't " but given how many variables there are in a team sport like basketball one would need to first prove player y is incapable of leading a team to a ring in the first place. At that point we are no longer talking about rings and talking about on court play though, thus making the whole "how many rings on each hand" argument completely bypassable.
I agree. There is so many things involved, but it makes the discussion interesting.


It makes it interesting until the same people talking rings ignore Bill Russell and the rest of the 60s Celtics.

Finals MVP is another fun one.
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penbeast0 wrote:Guys, if you don't have anything to say, don't post.


E-Balla wrote:LeBron is Jeff George.
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Re: What Year Did LeBron Surpass Kobe? 

Post#93 » by iggymcfrack » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:31 pm

Colbinii wrote:
toodles23 wrote:
iggymcfrack wrote:
Spoiler:
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuck you. You’re gonna tell me who my favorite player is? I started rooting for the Mavs as a 9 year old with the 3 Js. The big 4th quarter comeback in Game 5 against the Stockton/Malone Jazz when Dirk and Finley were young was my first big moment of success with them and it was magical. My first favorite player was actually Shawn Bradley. I always thought it was bull how everyone made fun of him and acted like he didn’t have any skill just because he was tall. By the time I got to around 2006, Dirk was the only player who had even been on the team for any length of time so of course he was my favorite player. Game 7 against the Spurs that year was maybe my most memorable game ever. The Mavs had always come up just short against the Spurs year after year after year so for Dirk to completely outplay Duncan at his peak on the road in a Game 7 was almost orgasmic. I still remember that 3-point play like it was yesterday. Then they got the championship stolen with that terrible refereeing and I really hated Wade for a while. I don’t think people actually remember who bad it was. Unless the defender had been set for like 2 full seconds any contact was automatic free throws for the offense.

By 2011, it seemed like the championship window was mostly closed so that was a magical run. Sweeping the 2-time defending champions until Bynum tried to kill Barea, Dirk’s near-perfect game against OKC where he went 21 for 21, and of course the Finals. I’d gotten to like LeBron a little bit and grown some grudging respect for Wade, but then when they made fun of Dirk for getting sick, it was like **** them all over again. Dirk definitely had a really good series and had some big 4th quarters early, but the role players stepped up a lot too. If you remember, in Game 6, Dirk was actually awful and missed like 11 of his first 12 or something and JET just carried them in until by the time Dirk made a couple late shots they didn’t even really need them. I watched the game on the casino floor at the Rio in Vegas and couldn’t believe it for hours afterward. Finally went out for steaks with an old friend to celebrate.

After that, I definitely rooted for LeBron in 2012 and was maybe 1/3 as happy to see him get a ring as I’d been for Dirk the previous year. I also finally got to the point where I could actually root for the Spurs as the Mavs’ history with them didn’t seem to matter any more now that Dirk had a ring and they were playing beautiful basketball. Felt like they got screwed by the refs pretty bad in Game 6 against the Thunder. By 2013, I was all over the Spurs bandwagon as the more talented, underrated team and I bet them the whole way against the Heat, rooting for them in Games 1-6. Then I got to Game 7, and I’m like “wait a minute, there’s no way LeBron’s losing a Game 7 at home, why not switch sides and bet on LeBron? So I did and it was super fun. The next year, the talent gap was much heavier on the Spurs side and I couldn’t believe the Finals were going off at even money so I really loaded up and bet on them probably harder than any Finals ever. LeBron had a fantastic series and it didn’t make a whit of difference because the Spurs were just too good.

I bet on the Warriors in the 2015 Finals and rooted for them as the hot new thing that also seemed like they should be the better team. The Mavs were still my favorite team but by 2016 they weren’t much of a contender to even make the playoffs, and the Warriors were must see TV every night. Finally, I’m like “why pretend like the Mavs are still my favorite team?” I wouldn’t even care if they were on. But I don’t want to miss a single Warriors game. I guess they’re my favorite team now. But I rooted hard for Dirk for 15 years and even last year when he had his moment at the all-star game he warmed my heart. I’m never gonna care about another basketball player like I did for him.

I’m generally much better at being objective about my favorite players than a lot of people though. For instance, as much as I hated Wade for years, I still have him at #14 or #15 on my all-time list and I only have Dirk at #16. LeBron I did root for a lot, especially in his first Cleveland run, but I really only was on his side in about half of his finals. The reason I have him as the GOAT is just because I objectively believe it to be so.


I saw this gem from Gooner yesterday on the General Board. Lets you know he's not exactly coming from a place of sound logic and reason.

Gooner wrote:Kyrie should definitely shut up and dribble. I like his game, and I even think he is intelligent, but not as much as he think he is. All he does is promote luciferianism, and so does LeBron. It would be the best for his sake if he focused just on basketball, when it comes to public life.


The only people I have ever heard say "Shut up and dribble" have been racist correspondents to Fox News.


Sometimes I wonder if he’s just a troll. Like he and An Unbiased Fan are just the same person drinking wine in a dark room somewhere pumping out bad spots for the LULZ.

Gfycat Video - Click to Play
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Re: What Year Did LeBron Surpass Kobe? 

Post#94 » by Colbinii » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:34 pm

iggymcfrack wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
toodles23 wrote:
I saw this gem from Gooner yesterday on the General Board. Lets you know he's not exactly coming from a place of sound logic and reason.



The only people I have ever heard say "Shut up and dribble" have been racist correspondents to Fox News.


Sometimes I wonder if he’s just a troll. Like he and An Unbiased Fan are just the same person drinking wine in a dark room somewhere pumping out bad spots for the LULZ.

Gfycat Video - Click to Play


Nah I think it's a Russian bot gearing up for the election.
tsherkin wrote:Locked due to absence of adult conversation.


penbeast0 wrote:Guys, if you don't have anything to say, don't post.


E-Balla wrote:LeBron is Jeff George.
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Re: What Year Did LeBron Surpass Kobe? 

Post#95 » by mcraft » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:35 pm

Colbinii wrote:
mcraft wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
I think it holds merit if you say "Player X was capable of leading a team to a ring but player y isn't " but given how many variables there are in a team sport like basketball one would need to first prove player y is incapable of leading a team to a ring in the first place. At that point we are no longer talking about rings and talking about on court play though, thus making the whole "how many rings on each hand" argument completely bypassable.
I agree. There is so many things involved, but it makes the discussion interesting.


It makes it interesting until the same people talking rings ignore Bill Russell and the rest of the 60s Celtics.

Finals MVP is another fun one.
Yep. The 6 for 6 crowd conveniently ignore 11 in 13 years
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Re: What Year Did LeBron Surpass Kobe? 

Post#96 » by G35 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:58 pm

mcraft wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
G35 wrote:

No shame, just gotta know your place.....


Or learn how to think but that's asking a lot for some people...
Honestly I find the ring approach quite interesting. At some point actual on the court play has to be evaluated and included because otherwise how would you choose between Magic, Duncan or Kobe. Or Jordan and Kareem. Otherwise Jordan is nowhere close to goat and Russell is hands down the goat.



Well the disconnect...and sometimes I think people are being obstinate is that it's not just a rings debate.

Imo, being able to get through the 82 games of the RS and then getting the 16 wins you need to win the finals (currently) takes more than just posting the best stats.

I feel that any one can go out and just get stats, e.g. James Harden whose 2019 season would rival Lebron's best statistical seasons.

But that is a shallow way to look at the game of basketball imo...an unpopular opinion on this board but one I think takes more nuance than just rack and stacking stats.

To me what makes Russell great, Jordan great, Magic, Kobe, Kareem etc was how they integrated their talents and were able to achieve a a team goal while also posting impressive personal numbers. I know...I know...this takes thought.

Sometimes (and this blows many posters minds) is less is more...addition by subtraction...altering approaches allows you to achieve goals you cannot achieve by only playing the game one way.

Lebron only plays one way.

Kobe was much more versatile and able to get the most out of his teammates and its not even close.

In any Lebron analysis all you will hear is how much his teammates let him down or were not sufficient enough to win titles. Despite the fact we have seen other great players win titles with lesser supporting casts than what Lebron has brought to the table. Hakeem, Dirk, Duncan, I would even say Kawhi last year won with a cast that was not overly impressive.

Winning is the hardest thing to do in basketball...and imo, that is what makes you great is leading other players to ultimate reward and that is a title.

MVP's...All-NBA...All Star...DPOY...stats...a lot of players have those...few players have titles.....
I'm so tired of the typical......
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Re: What Year Did LeBron Surpass Kobe? 

Post#97 » by Ainosterhaspie » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:05 pm

KTM_2813 wrote:
Ainosterhaspie wrote:
iggymcfrack wrote:
Giving you an And-1 here with the benefit of the doubt that you’re being sarcastic. Hopefully I’m giving you that credit appropriately.


You're not. Post history confirms. It's not sarcasm.

--

People like to do into the "LeBron is to ball dominant bag for the Miami years where if anything he wasn't ball dominant enough. He played differently in Miami than Cleveland mark 2 but can't let that fact get in the way of a good narrative.


Err... What? Of course I was being sarcastic. And was that post below the "--" supposed to be from me? That doesn't sound like something I'd say. I'm a pretty vocal critic of the "LeBron Ball" nonsense and I've butted heads with Gooner and his ilk many times in the past. Either I'm incredibly confused (which is very likely) or you messed something up here. :lol:

I missed the sarcasm I guess. My bad.
My GOATs 1.LBJ/2.Jordan/3.KAJ/4.Duncan/5.Magic
Russell and Wilt grandfathered in at 6 and 7.

Yes I watched Jordan live, started paying attention to basketball in the bad boys era.

I respect Jordan way more now than I did when he played.
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Re: What Year Did LeBron Surpass Kobe? 

Post#98 » by mcraft » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:39 pm

G35 wrote:
mcraft wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
Or learn how to think but that's asking a lot for some people...
Honestly I find the ring approach quite interesting. At some point actual on the court play has to be evaluated and included because otherwise how would you choose between Magic, Duncan or Kobe. Or Jordan and Kareem. Otherwise Jordan is nowhere close to goat and Russell is hands down the goat.



Well the disconnect...and sometimes I think people are being obstinate is that it's not just a rings debate.

Imo, being able to get through the 82 games of the RS and then getting the 16 wins you need to win the finals (currently) takes more than just posting the best stats.

I feel that any one can go out and just get stats, e.g. James Harden whose 2019 season would rival Lebron's best statistical seasons.

But that is a shallow way to look at the game of basketball imo...an unpopular opinion on this board but one I think takes more nuance than just rack and stacking stats.

To me what makes Russell great, Jordan great, Magic, Kobe, Kareem etc was how they integrated their talents and were able to achieve a a team goal while also posting impressive personal numbers. I know...I know...this takes thought.

Sometimes (and this blows many posters minds) is less is more...addition by subtraction...altering approaches allows you to achieve goals you cannot achieve by only playing the game one way.

Lebron only plays one way.

Kobe was much more versatile and able to get the most out of his teammates and its not even close.

In any Lebron analysis all you will hear is how much his teammates let him down or were not sufficient enough to win titles. Despite the fact we have seen other great players win titles with lesser supporting casts than what Lebron has brought to the table. Hakeem, Dirk, Duncan, I would even say Kawhi last year won with a cast that was not overly impressive.

Winning is the hardest thing to do in basketball...and imo, that is what makes you great is leading other players to ultimate reward and that is a title.

MVP's...All-NBA...All Star...DPOY...stats...a lot of players have those...few players have titles.....
I'm not good at conveying my thoughts in writing but here goes...
I agree with a lot of what you say. I think winning an NBA championship is incredibly difficult. I think it takes a great player, a great team and a little luck.
I think the major point of contention is how much better could Lebron's teammates have played with a different "system" for lack of better words. I'm of the opinion (emphasizing opinion) that perimeter players no, post players maybe. I also feel post 2011 in the Finals losses the defensive side of the ball is where Miami/Cleveland lost (2015 being an exception. I think Cleveland in particular deliberately sacrificed defense to put three point shooters in as many spots as possible on the floor. Of course some of this is due to building through free agency with a capped out team. I think I'm rambling now so I'll stop before I confuse myself, lol.
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Re: What Year Did LeBron Surpass Kobe? 

Post#99 » by CodeBreaker » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:28 am

2010.

All time list? 2013
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Re: What Year Did LeBron Surpass Kobe? 

Post#100 » by HeartBreakKid » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:32 am

G35 wrote:
MVP's...All-NBA...All Star...DPOY...stats...a lot of players have those...few players have titles.....

way more people have titles than most of those things.

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