Colbinii wrote:Odinn21 wrote:LA Bird wrote:Chiming in on the era discussion, I would say the last decade or so is slightly under represented on the current list. Oscar has a comfortable lead right now so assuming he wins this round, the number of voted peaks in each moving 15 year period would look like this:
Is the GOAT peak talent really weaker today even though the league is the most popular it's ever been on an international scale? Personally, I think it is more likely that the talent is still around the same level but fans are just more critical of players because everything is put under a microscope nowadays.
Well, I see where you’re coming from and I agree to some degree (we being much more critical of the current names due to available data getting way bigger by the day). But it doesn’t take much to recognise the league was headed to a low point in terms of all-time great talents.
I remember talking to people on message boards in my native language around 2007, 2008 and I was bummed at the time because LeBron was the only real young talent that got the cloth to make it.
Agains, around 2012, 2013 I was being critical of LeBron’s domination over ‘the league’s best player’ title because the only top 15 material he was dominating was KD. And it doesn’t have anything to do with me being too nostalgic. I’m gonna give you example;
Duncan was the best player in 2002-03 season. He had prime Nowitzki and near-peak Garnett as competition for the PF position alone. Then there was Shaq, still a very dominant force. Then there were McGrady and Bryant, both having the time of their lives. And there was also Jason Kidd as well who made it to b2b finals (I’m big on this. Usually people talk about the East being very weak at the time but Kidd also didn’t have a good supporting cast, what he did was truly great).
After seeing that, predicting the league was headed to a low point as for goat level talents wasn’t hard, even 10 years ago.
2012/2013 had Chris Paul (top 20ish player in some circles) in the thick of his prime, young KD, young Rose/Westbrook (many debates between westbrook/durant), Blake Griffin/Kevin Love. Unfortunately many players were injured (Westbrook, Love and Rose all to varying degrees of "probably never be the same" type injuries) and then we have the rise of Curry who will undoubtably be a top 20 player alltime (many will put him top 10).
I think LA Bird hit the nail on the head with how we micro-analyze these players.
I'm not sure why we bring up Kidd here without mentioning Harden/Paul/Curry who all peaked higher at the same position.
Aside from Kidd, the names I mentioned were top 15/20 material in terms of talent and only McGrady didn’t end up in there due to obvious reasons.
I mentioned Kidd to show the depth with peak Kidd being borderline top 10 in the league.
Also I talked about a particular season. You just listed some names which don’t match the quality and the timeline in themselves.
If we stretch the timeline to a decade for example; LeBron, Curry, Durant, Paul, Harden and Westbrook, they still do not get close enough to O’Neal, Duncan, Garnett, Nowitzki, Bryant, Wade, Nash and Kidd.
Also including Love and Griffin? Come on now. I didn’t use the ones like Webber, Iverson (though I’m not sure he’s a good mention), Ming, Wallace, Stoudemire, etc. Heck even though I consider his particular performance as an outlier, 2005-06 Brand was better than any version of Griffin and Love. Those are not good mentions when the topic is top 15/20 material.