Re: Harden vs. MJ as a Scorer
Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:57 pm
Post rule change Harden struggle bump?
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HardenandWilt wrote:They changed the rules because of harden, he made scoring 30 the new 20 and scoring 40 the new 30. Just like wilt of his day when he told mj,” remember they made the game harder for me.” While they making it easier for you
My screename says it all.. both also donned the #13 jersey
feyki wrote:Harden against the Warriors in the 2019 Playoffs:
34,8 PPG, +4,9 rTS, %88 unassisted points rate,
Harden against the Lakers in the 2020 Playoffs:
29,4 PPG, +11,1 rTS, %76,5 unassisted points rate,
Jordan against the Jazz in the 1997 Playoffs:
32,3 PPG, +0,01 rTS, %47 unassisted points rate
. Assisted points tracking started with play by play data. Don't have the data past 97, unfortunately. Jazz series was the best of Jordan's 97 championship run, that's why I picked it.
Without adjustion and with the second prime Jordan, Peak Harden definitely ahead of him on all combined scoring volume, shot efficiency and creation.
feyki wrote:Harden against the Warriors in the 2019 Playoffs:
34,8 PPG, +4,9 rTS, %88 unassisted points rate,
Harden against the Lakers in the 2020 Playoffs:
29,4 PPG, +11,1 rTS, %76,5 unassisted points rate,
Jordan against the Jazz in the 1997 Playoffs:
32,3 PPG, +0,01 rTS, %47 unassisted points rate
. Assisted points tracking started with play by play data. Don't have the data past 97, unfortunately. Jazz series was the best of Jordan's 97 championship run, that's why I picked it.
Without adjustion and with the second prime Jordan, Peak Harden definitely ahead of him on all combined scoring volume, shot efficiency and creation.
Peregrine01 wrote:The other thing that deserves mention in this comparison is variance. Harden's scoring has higher highs and lower lows than MJ's scoring and it's even more apparent in the playoffs. This matters because playoff series are small sample size in which every game matters. So if Harden stinks it up in 4 games but is on fire in the other two, it hurts his team's chances of winning the series a lot more than MJ's more steady scoring production.
McBubbles wrote:HardenandWilt wrote:They changed the rules because of harden, he made scoring 30 the new 20 and scoring 40 the new 30. Just like wilt of his day when he told mj,” remember they made the game harder for me.” While they making it easier for you
My screename says it all.. both also donned the #13 jersey
I mean when you're jumping on someone's back and you get a free throw, they're going to change the rules Harden is the Detroit Pistons of free throws. Exploited the rules in such a way that made an inferior basketball product.
McBubbles wrote:Peregrine01 wrote:The other thing that deserves mention in this comparison is variance. Harden's scoring has higher highs and lower lows than MJ's scoring and it's even more apparent in the playoffs. This matters because playoff series are small sample size in which every game matters. So if Harden stinks it up in 4 games but is on fire in the other two, it hurts his team's chances of winning the series a lot more than MJ's more steady scoring production.
Shorter, less polite version - Harden has choked like a mofo in ways that reading averages cannot quite capture.
From 2013-2017 it was a guarantee that Harden would drop at least one game per post season with some trash ass WOAT performances.
HardenandWilt wrote:They changed the rules because of harden, he made scoring 30 the new 20 and scoring 40 the new 30. Just like wilt of his day when he told mj,” remember they made the game harder for me.” While they making it easier for you
My screename says it all.. both also donned the #13 jersey
Peregrine01 wrote:The other thing that deserves mention in this comparison is variance. Harden's scoring has higher highs and lower lows than MJ's scoring and it's even more apparent in the playoffs. This matters because playoff series are small sample size in which every game matters. So if Harden stinks it up in 4 games but is on fire in the other two, it hurts his team's chances of winning the series a lot more than if he had the same average scoring production at the same average efficiency in all those games.
King Ken wrote:Cavsfansince84 wrote:King Ken wrote:This makes zero sense
It makes perfect sense. Defenses become tougher in the playoffs with more game planning and more physical defense usually allowed which Harden has had trouble dealing with in most of his post season runs while MJ's scoring pretty much always went up on as good or better efficiency regardless because he has a higher ceiling as an athlete and a more polished all around scoring game.
Nothing you said made any sense. If defenses get harder in the playoffs which of course they do. MJ who is less scheme versatile would be the first for have issues with today's NBA. How would he have more success? Saying his scoring when up is meaningless if the personnel to defend him is not there. Sorry but Randy Wittman and Steve Smith is not defending MJ in space. Khris Middleton with a hard zone and Giannis and Lopez behind him and constant rolling traps is a MASSIVE difference. Just impossible to make that statement when the quality of competition is just favored in MJ's direction, it's unfair.
Best believe you aren't scheming the ball out of Harden's hand effectively if you gotta show your double team or it's a tech. Centers would foul out like crazy if Harden played in that era. It's not even fair to compare the two. The gap is quality of competition, level of defense, personnel grouping, and rule changes just simply make this a pointless statement.
MJ is easier to scheme. Detroit proved that and these defenses are miles away more advanced than those Pistons could ever dream of.
You can say a lot of nonsense but MJ would be A LOT easier to defend in this era than Harden and it's not even close. Harden playmaking is a monster to deal with. Harden's dribble drives are exceptionally hard to defend do to his body control, ball handling, size and strength 6'5 245 and vision at all times. He is an on ball machine. Clearly more advanced than Jordan and it's not even close. Even PPP is tiled in Harden's favor v. modern schemes and defenses. It's a joke to say what you are saying. A ridiculous joke.
No-more-rings wrote:Peregrine01 wrote:The other thing that deserves mention in this comparison is variance. Harden's scoring has higher highs and lower lows than MJ's scoring and it's even more apparent in the playoffs. This matters because playoff series are small sample size in which every game matters. So if Harden stinks it up in 4 games but is on fire in the other two, it hurts his team's chances of winning the series a lot more than if he had the same average scoring production at the same average efficiency in all those games.
You keep saying this, but honestly I'm not sure what makes you think Harden has higher highs. Are you forgetting that MJ scored 63 points in a playoff game against the 86 Celtics for example? Or that he had multiple 40+ ppg series?
Peregrine01 wrote:The other thing that deserves mention in this comparison is variance. Harden's scoring has higher highs and lower lows than MJ's scoring and it's even more apparent in the playoffs. This matters because playoff series are small sample size in which every game matters. So if Harden stinks it up in 4 games but is on fire in the other two, it hurts his team's chances of winning the series a lot more than if he had the same average scoring production at the same average efficiency in all those games.