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MartinToVaught wrote:It's funny how Harden whines that Giannis is somehow "unskilled" when he's reduced his own game to flopping and chucking difficult stepback threes. He doesn't move without the ball or play defense. I'd love to know what his 3PT% has been since he talked trash about Giannis.

I hate the rockets but harden's handles are probably top 10 all time and he has the best iso dribble game probably ever, which is built off the threat of the stepback, and he can get to the rim because of thise two things even though hes not crazy explosive like guys like kobe or jordan were

I agree his finishing is overrated but harden is definately absurdly skilled lol

MartinToVaught wrote:It's funny how Harden whines that Giannis is somehow "unskilled" when he's reduced his own game to flopping and chucking difficult stepback threes. He doesn't move without the ball or play defense. I'd love to know what his 3PT% has been since he talked trash about Giannis.

I'm not the biggest Harden fan but he is clearly far more skilled than Giannis. Giannis without his genetics is barely an NBA player.

I mean...Giannis is absolutely skilled. His passing/playmaking/handling at his size is incredible.

LeBird wrote:

MartinToVaught wrote:It's funny how Harden whines that Giannis is somehow "unskilled" when he's reduced his own game to flopping and chucking difficult stepback threes. He doesn't move without the ball or play defense. I'd love to know what his 3PT% has been since he talked trash about Giannis.

I'm not the biggest Harden fan but he is clearly far more skilled than Giannis. Giannis without his genetics is barely an NBA player.

Unathletic Giannis is not an NBA player IMO. Then again, that would be terribly unfair to him, because the average NBA player is athletically gifted.

bondom34 wrote:I mean...Giannis is absolutely skilled. His passing/playmaking/handling at his size is incredible.

Giannis is incredibly skilled. There should be no doubting that. It’s like when people say Shaq was just a brute when he was actually one it the most fundamental sound players in NBA history.

That said, smalls work a lot harder than bigs to make it to the NBA. It’s a supply/demand thing. There are many more people with Harden’s physical profile trying to make the league than Giannis. When you’re talking about elite players the separation becomes less clear... but still there IMO.

A guard who can’t shoot free throws can’t make the NBA, while a big who can’t shoot free throws can have an argument for GOAT.

Dr Spaceman wrote:

bondom34 wrote:I mean...Giannis is absolutely skilled. His passing/playmaking/handling at his size is incredible.

Giannis is incredibly skilled. There should be no doubting that. It’s like when people say Shaq was just a brute when he was actually one it the most fundamental sound players in NBA history.

Yeah, I've heard too many times that Shaq was unskilled. I've heard that Moses Malone was just a garbage man with little else. I've heard that Wilt tried to look skilled but wasn't skilled at all... I don't think people who say that really watch basketball regulary though.

It should also be noted that it's harder for bigger players to develop skills compared to smaller players. Kobe was thought of as maniacal in his skill development as any and he was as skilled as any, but even he won't have the handles that a Kyrie has or the shooting that a Steph or Nash has.

Dr Spaceman wrote:

bondom34 wrote:I mean...Giannis is absolutely skilled. His passing/playmaking/handling at his size is incredible.

Giannis is incredibly skilled. There should be no doubting that. It’s like when people say Shaq was just a brute when he was actually one it the most fundamental sound players in NBA history.

That said, smalls work a lot harder than bigs to make it to the NBA. It’s a supply/demand thing. There are many more people with Harden’s physical profile trying to make the league than Giannis. When you’re talking about elite players the separation becomes less clear... but still there IMO.

A guard who can’t shoot free throws can’t make the NBA, while a big who can’t shoot free throws can have an argument for GOAT.

Sort of, but I'd say bigs are just skilled in different ways, and at times more challenged in it. It's just inherently harder to have a tighter handle as a big than a small. That said, there is some advantage for being tall, I forget the stat but there's a really high percentage of people over 7 feet born in the US that end up making the NBA iirc.

Smalls are generally more skilled, you're right but just commenting more on the idea Giannis isn't. Oh and I still love the trash talk, trash talk doesn't have to make sense to be fun .

LeBird wrote:

MartinToVaught wrote:It's funny how Harden whines that Giannis is somehow "unskilled" when he's reduced his own game to flopping and chucking difficult stepback threes. He doesn't move without the ball or play defense. I'd love to know what his 3PT% has been since he talked trash about Giannis.

I'm not the biggest Harden fan but he is clearly far more skilled than Giannis. Giannis without his genetics is barely an NBA player.

Genetics/athleticism and skill always work together. Skill maximizes athleticism. Very few nba players would be in the nba if they were only 6' tall and not exceptionally fast. Maybe like 2-3.

Tom Thiboeau
Jeff Van Gundy

Ugh, I know Harden has been putting up big numbers in Houston before D'Antoni got there, but I think it's obvious that D'Antoni has helped maximize his offensive strengths.

Going from forward-thinking D'Antoni to possibly 90s-ball lovers in Thibs/JVG, clearly dealing with an incompetent owner who could be in financial hell due to the pandemic, so much of his team's success dependent on Westbrook who is turning 32 in November, turning 31 himself in August... I'm really not liking the next 3 year outlook for Harden if he stays in Houston.

If Houston is loses in the 2nd round of the playoffs this year as expected (assuming we have a playoffs), I have a feeling that Morey's plan (if Morey isn't fired) will involve running it back with Harden/Westbrook one more time in 2021 under a different coach. If that fails, he is going to shop Harden to optimize the rebuild.

Could Morey actually give up on the Harden/Westbrook tandem early and pull off a 24 year old Devin Booker for a 31 year old Harden swap this off-season? Something like Booker/Cam Johnson/Kaminsky for Harden? It would make the Suns a legit contender if Ayton improves and it would give Houston more depth + a Franchise player entering his prime as opposed to nearing the end of it.

The last paragraph was just pure fun speculation, don't know how realistic that would be. But I think we are about to enter a new chapter in James Harden's career, whether it's in Houston or somewhere else.

Where are the Houston/Thibs rumors coming from?

MisterHibachi wrote:Where are the Houston/Thibs rumors coming from?

https://www.si.com/nba/rockets/news/tom-thibodeau-rockets-head-coach-rumors

The Houston FO and D'Antoni are not on the same page at all. It would shock me at this point to see him come back.

Bubble game 1 highlights:

O_6 wrote:Tom Thiboeau
Jeff Van Gundy

Ugh, I know Harden has been putting up big numbers in Houston before D'Antoni got there, but I think it's obvious that D'Antoni has helped maximize his offensive strengths.

Going from forward-thinking D'Antoni to possibly 90s-ball lovers in Thibs/JVG, clearly dealing with an incompetent owner who could be in financial hell due to the pandemic, so much of his team's success dependent on Westbrook who is turning 32 in November, turning 31 himself in August... I'm really not liking the next 3 year outlook for Harden if he stays in Houston.

If Houston is loses in the 2nd round of the playoffs this year as expected (assuming we have a playoffs), I have a feeling that Morey's plan (if Morey isn't fired) will involve running it back with Harden/Westbrook one more time in 2021 under a different coach. If that fails, he is going to shop Harden to optimize the rebuild.

Could Morey actually give up on the Harden/Westbrook tandem early and pull off a 24 year old Devin Booker for a 31 year old Harden swap this off-season? Something like Booker/Cam Johnson/Kaminsky for Harden? It would make the Suns a legit contender if Ayton improves and it would give Houston more depth + a Franchise player entering his prime as opposed to nearing the end of it.

The last paragraph was just pure fun speculation, don't know how realistic that would be. But I think we are about to enter a new chapter in James Harden's career, whether it's in Houston or somewhere else.

I mean offense wise they run 5 out consistently and do some smart things with on-ball screens, but i think it wouldnt be that hard for other coaches to emulate given the staff altho d antoni popularized it

What a performance from Harden tonight.

Might be the best RS performance this season.

Refreshed and healthy again.

Second highest playing level in the league behind Giannis.

He has been a clear positive defender for most of the seasons. Crazy player.

So are McClemore and Austin Rivers just straight up better than Eric Gordon at this point?

Yeah Gordon earned his pay, but he's living off past reputation imo.

If he returns to form to help win playoff series I'll be good with him, but hoping he'll get there and stay healthy is starting to wear thin.

I appreciate his contributions and what he's done, but we need health, performance and wins for the current postseason.

We'll see what happens, I'm on his side to succeed.

Big series now for him

Up and down first round for him. Overall was great but that game seven was terrible, as were his closing minutes in games 4 and 6