The James Harden Thread (2019-20)

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Re: The James Harden Thread (2019-20) 

Post#381 » by freethedevil » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:41 pm

Harden deserves credit for not dying against a good defense like he usually does. If he can manage it another postseason, I think it'll be enough to put him ahead of KD.
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Re: The James Harden Thread (2019-20) 

Post#382 » by Heej » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:15 pm

People really can't pin this on Harden imo. I've never seen a player so utterly dominant in isolation that they require immediate double teams 25 feet from the hoop without anyone setting a pick for him. Like this dude is literally a real life gamebreaker. Let's not forget Utah legit playing that iconic "doggystyle defense" on Harden where they just let him have a free runway to the rim.

At some point it's on his teammates to be able to get to the middle of the floor and work those 4 on 3s for layups and 3s. There's some things he could've done more off ball and I suppose posting up, but the real issue as has been discussed in this thread is Westbrook. This team with 2017 CP3 could've beaten the Lakers and I stand by that.
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Re: The James Harden Thread (2019-20) 

Post#383 » by No-more-rings » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:51 pm

freethedevil wrote:Harden deserves credit for not dying against a good defense like he usually does. If he can manage it another postseason, I think it'll be enough to put him ahead of KD.

For careers or peaks? Peak wise i think he's been better the past 3 seasons honestly. He's simply a better offensive player than KD is/was.
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Re: The James Harden Thread (2019-20) 

Post#384 » by freethedevil » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:38 pm

No-more-rings wrote:
freethedevil wrote:Harden deserves credit for not dying against a good defense like he usually does. If he can manage it another postseason, I think it'll be enough to put him ahead of KD.

For careers or peaks? Peak wise i think he's been better the past 3 seasons honestly. He's simply a better offensive player than KD is/was.

Career. KD's playoff longetvity is overrated. And he's only been good against good defences a couple times so
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Re: The James Harden Thread (2019-20) 

Post#385 » by Doctor MJ » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:22 pm

freethedevil wrote:Harden deserves credit for not dying against a good defense like he usually does. If he can manage it another postseason, I think it'll be enough to put him ahead of KD.


Interesting food for thought. Hard for me to get there still, but maybe I need to ponder it further.
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Re: The James Harden Thread (2019-20) 

Post#386 » by ardee » Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:33 pm

I'm a Russ guy and I really need to push back against the idea here that he's a complete and total liability going forward.

Memories are short I guess and to be fair pre-lockdown WAS a long time ago: but Russ was a savage in the RS. The Russ you just saw was 60% at best. Reserve judgment till after the 2021 Playoffs (if the Lakers win this year I'll probably be half rooting for the Rockets next year so Russ can finally get his ring).
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Re: The James Harden Thread (2019-20) 

Post#387 » by ardee » Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:37 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:
freethedevil wrote:Harden deserves credit for not dying against a good defense like he usually does. If he can manage it another postseason, I think it'll be enough to put him ahead of KD.


Interesting food for thought. Hard for me to get there still, but maybe I need to ponder it further.


Harden has 2015, 2018-2020 as top 3-5 years, 2014 and 2017 as top 5-7 years, 2013 and 2016 as top 10 years or so, and 2012 as maybe a top 15 year.

KD has 2012-14, 16-18 as top 3-5 years, 2010 and 2011 as top 5-7 years, and that's about it. Hard for me to rank 2019.

The longevity case would add up next year if KD isn't himself.
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Re: The James Harden Thread (2019-20) 

Post#388 » by No-more-rings » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:10 am

ardee wrote:I'm a Russ guy and I really need to push back against the idea here that he's a complete and total liability going forward.

Memories are short I guess and to be fair pre-lockdown WAS a long time ago: but Russ was a savage in the RS. The Russ you just saw was 60% at best. Reserve judgment till after the 2021 Playoffs (if the Lakers win this year I'll probably be half rooting for the Rockets next year so Russ can finally get his ring).

He’s been bad in the playoffs 3 years in a row though, so it’s a trend not something random.
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Re: The James Harden Thread (2019-20) 

Post#389 » by ardee » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:34 pm

No-more-rings wrote:
ardee wrote:I'm a Russ guy and I really need to push back against the idea here that he's a complete and total liability going forward.

Memories are short I guess and to be fair pre-lockdown WAS a long time ago: but Russ was a savage in the RS. The Russ you just saw was 60% at best. Reserve judgment till after the 2021 Playoffs (if the Lakers win this year I'll probably be half rooting for the Rockets next year so Russ can finally get his ring).

He’s been bad in the playoffs 3 years in a row though, so it’s a trend not something random.


On ill-constructed OKC teams with zero spacing. His performance once Houston went small was night and day from the last two years. You'll see the real Russ next year.
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Re: The James Harden Thread (2019-20) 

Post#390 » by Bergmaniac » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:56 pm

ardee wrote:
No-more-rings wrote:
ardee wrote:I'm a Russ guy and I really need to push back against the idea here that he's a complete and total liability going forward.

Memories are short I guess and to be fair pre-lockdown WAS a long time ago: but Russ was a savage in the RS. The Russ you just saw was 60% at best. Reserve judgment till after the 2021 Playoffs (if the Lakers win this year I'll probably be half rooting for the Rockets next year so Russ can finally get his ring).

He’s been bad in the playoffs 3 years in a row though, so it’s a trend not something random.


On ill-constructed OKC teams with zero spacing. His performance once Houston went small was night and day from the last two years. You'll see the real Russ next year.

He'll be 32 next season, and his game is too reliant on athleticism to age well. Maybe he's really lucky with injuries, he could have a decent playoff run, but he's getting more and more injury prone, so that's unlikely.
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Re: The James Harden Thread (2019-20) 

Post#391 » by Doctor MJ » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:20 pm

ardee wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:
freethedevil wrote:Harden deserves credit for not dying against a good defense like he usually does. If he can manage it another postseason, I think it'll be enough to put him ahead of KD.


Interesting food for thought. Hard for me to get there still, but maybe I need to ponder it further.


Harden has 2015, 2018-2020 as top 3-5 years, 2014 and 2017 as top 5-7 years, 2013 and 2016 as top 10 years or so, and 2012 as maybe a top 15 year.

KD has 2012-14, 16-18 as top 3-5 years, 2010 and 2011 as top 5-7 years, and that's about it. Hard for me to rank 2019.

The longevity case would add up next year if KD isn't himself.


I think the big thing for me is whether I actually think Harden is as good or better than Durant.

You've got a point that Durant's longevity edge has basically disappeared with his two injury seasons.
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Re: The James Harden Thread (2019-20) 

Post#392 » by thekdog34 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:16 pm

Heej wrote:People really can't pin this on Harden imo. I've never seen a player so utterly dominant in isolation that they require immediate double teams 25 feet from the hoop without anyone setting a pick for him. Like this dude is literally a real life gamebreaker. Let's not forget Utah legit playing that iconic "doggystyle defense" on Harden where they just let him have a free runway to the rim.

At some point it's on his teammates to be able to get to the middle of the floor and work those 4 on 3s for layups and 3s. There's some things he could've done more off ball and I suppose posting up, but the real issue as has been discussed in this thread is Westbrook. This team with 2017 CP3 could've beaten the Lakers and I stand by that.


The problem is those double teams seem to shut him down.

His overall performance against Utah doggy style defense was not good.

The rockets offense based on Harden isos consistently does worse than the regular season in the playoffs. .

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