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Larry Bird/Hakeem Olajuwon vs Michael Jordan/Karl Malone

Posted: Fri Sep 6, 2019 1:38 am
by Matt15
Which duo would you rather build around?

Re: Larry Bird/Hakeem Olajuwon vs Michael Jordan/Karl Malone

Posted: Fri Sep 6, 2019 1:56 am
by udfa
I typically go with MJ in a duo unless the disparity between the B players is very large

Re: Larry Bird/Hakeem Olajuwon vs Michael Jordan/Karl Malone

Posted: Fri Sep 6, 2019 1:58 am
by Cavsfansince84
I don't think Malone would thrive playing next to MJ. I mean ya its still a great duo but Bird/Hakeem would be a transcendent duo.

Re: Larry Bird/Hakeem Olajuwon vs Michael Jordan/Karl Malone

Posted: Fri Sep 6, 2019 2:48 am
by No-more-rings
Hakeem>>Malone
Mj>Bird

Re: Larry Bird/Hakeem Olajuwon vs Michael Jordan/Karl Malone

Posted: Fri Sep 6, 2019 3:11 am
by DatAsh
Hakeem/Malone gap is too big, and on top of that, the Bird/Hakeem duo is a better fit.

Re: Larry Bird/Hakeem Olajuwon vs Michael Jordan/Karl Malone

Posted: Fri Sep 6, 2019 4:51 am
by kendogg
I'm assuming we're talking today's game.

I think peak Bird is pretty close to peak Jordan actually. The edge Jordan had in the 1v1 game Bird made up for with better passing and off-ball skills. Bird could also get his shot off easier over anyone without having to fade since he is taller and has a quick high release, though Jordan was the fade king so that's like a normal shot for him. Bird I think was also the better pure jump shooter. Jordan would do well in this no hand-check era (similar to Harden in impact and likely greater though Harden last year benefited from a lot of touches due to injuries). Bird would also do well as a floor stretching big with great hands and maybe the best basketball IQ ever. At worst he's Dirk+Jokic combined, except a far better defender than either of them. I think Bird is pretty close to Draymond Green in defensive style. Both are long forwards with huge motors who are far more tenacious and tough than they look. Early 80's Bird I think is every bit as good of a defender as Draymond and more so in some ways. I will say Draymond is probably the better man defender but Bird is every bit as good as a help defender maybe more so and a better rebounder.

Peak Dream is a monster on both ends while Malone is just a monster on one end. Malone is a good defender, to be clear, but Dream is in most people's eyes the best rim protector of the modern era. Even in today's game, that is a very valuable asset. And Dream is quick enough to handle the 2-man game today. Malone is a great roll guy sure, he's beefy and a good finisher. But Dream could explode in a microsecond. Most bigger guys need to bend down a bit to gather their upper leg strength for dunks and blocks. Dream does it mainly with his lower legs. He explodes to the rim like Jordan does. I think he would be even better today than in his era. The paint is less clogged actually these days with all the floor stretchers. He could 1v1 all day and destroy everyone.

Given that peak Hakeem is better than Malone, and that Bird/Dream is a nasty PF-C combo in the league today, which is a guard dominated league (due to the absence of hand-check rules), I have to go with Bird/Dream. It is far easier to get guard talent than big man talent, which is more rare. Pretty much every team has at least 1 solid guard talent.

Re: Larry Bird/Hakeem Olajuwon vs Michael Jordan/Karl Malone

Posted: Fri Sep 6, 2019 9:44 pm
by VDT
Bird/ Hakeem relatively easily and not only because i am high on Hakeem. Malone is a player that played above his talent level due to his work ethic due to Stockton. I am not sure what Malone' s role would be next to a player like Jordan.

Re: Larry Bird/Hakeem Olajuwon vs Michael Jordan/Karl Malone

Posted: Fri Sep 6, 2019 9:53 pm
by Sublime187
Hakeem/Bird is like the perfect duo.

Re: Larry Bird/Hakeem Olajuwon vs Michael Jordan/Karl Malone

Posted: Sat Sep 7, 2019 2:37 am
by RCM88x
In today's game I actually like MJ and Karl more. Karl could probably play center and MJ would really be able to abuse the PnR with him. Maybe its just because its a more intriguing combination and Jordan could unlock a lot of great ability in Karl that we didn't see in the 90s.

Though Hakeem and Bird is obviously a great combo too, probably a better duo honestly but I like the prospect of Jordan and Karl more.

Re: Larry Bird/Hakeem Olajuwon vs Michael Jordan/Karl Malone

Posted: Sat Sep 7, 2019 2:56 am
by henshao
Hard to pick against Jordan but the fitment is so much better for Dream and Larry. Malone is a top tier volume guy, and Jordan is a top tier volume guy whereas Bird and Dream can both scale back on offense when necessary. Not to mention Hakeem suffered for how long without another star offensive player? Lord knows what he could have done with someone like Bird who himself is a one-man-franchise nearly. Further, Larry Bird is a much better rebounder and defender than he is remembered for. I might put him at least equal if not better than Malone on that front, whereas the defensive comparison between Jordan and Dream is more clear. Top tier defenders but a big man defender is more valuable.

Re: Larry Bird/Hakeem Olajuwon vs Michael Jordan/Karl Malone

Posted: Sat Sep 7, 2019 6:44 am
by Pg81
Bird and Hakeem are very close to MJ, in fact in terms of defense Hakeem easily has the higher impact. Malone is an outlier here and a clear notch below the other three. Bird and Hakeem are also a great fit, Hakeem working inside and Bird punishing from the outside and distributing the ball would be a nightmare to defend against. On defense Bird was a really good help defender and Hakeem a terror in the zone and very mobile.
Give me Bird and Hakeem as a clear favorite here.

Re: Larry Bird/Hakeem Olajuwon vs Michael Jordan/Karl Malone

Posted: Sat Sep 7, 2019 2:07 pm
by kendogg
What if it was Bird/Dream vs Jordan + David Robinson? That would be closer. Would Jordan/Robinson PnR be the nastiest pairing ever?

Re: Larry Bird/Hakeem Olajuwon vs Michael Jordan/Karl Malone

Posted: Sat Sep 7, 2019 2:12 pm
by AdagioPace
kendogg wrote:What if it was Bird/Dream vs Jordan + David Robinson? That would be closer. Would Jordan/Robinson PnR be the nastiest pairing ever?


Curry+Robinson even nastier! :o (or even Nash-DRob on a consistent basis))

Back to the topic. I would think about it if the pair was Jordan-Robinson and I wouldn't even be worried about the PS. DRob just needed somebody above average to take some pressure off of him.

Re: Larry Bird/Hakeem Olajuwon vs Michael Jordan/Karl Malone

Posted: Sun Sep 8, 2019 4:04 am
by Samurai
Hard to pick against MJ, but I voted for Bird/Hakeem. They just seem like they would fit very well together. Hakeem could pick up drivers that get past Bird's defense. And having Hakeem in the low post with Bird at the 3-point line would make a terrific two man game on offense.

Re: Larry Bird/Hakeem Olajuwon vs Michael Jordan/Karl Malone

Posted: Sun Sep 8, 2019 6:17 am
by gh123
Bird and Malone are big time chokers and I'd rather have Hakeem in a playoff series than Jordan.

Re: Larry Bird/Hakeem Olajuwon vs Michael Jordan/Karl Malone

Posted: Sun Sep 8, 2019 8:12 am
by henshao
gh123 wrote:Bird and Malone are big time chokers and I'd rather have Hakeem in a playoff series than Jordan.


Larry Bird, a choker?

Do tell

Re: Larry Bird/Hakeem Olajuwon vs Michael Jordan/Karl Malone

Posted: Sun Sep 8, 2019 9:22 am
by gh123
henshao wrote:
gh123 wrote:Bird and Malone are big time chokers and I'd rather have Hakeem in a playoff series than Jordan.


Larry Bird, a choker?

Do tell


Choked in many series vs easy opponents and that led to Bpston losing the series.

Re: Larry Bird/Hakeem Olajuwon vs Michael Jordan/Karl Malone

Posted: Sun Sep 8, 2019 4:17 pm
by Cavsfansince84
gh123 wrote:
henshao wrote:
gh123 wrote:Bird and Malone are big time chokers and I'd rather have Hakeem in a playoff series than Jordan.


Larry Bird, a choker?

Do tell


Choked in many series vs easy opponents and that led to Bpston losing the series.


Which easy opponent would you be referring to outside of the 83 Milwaukee series? His team losing a series doesn't necessarily mean he choked either.

Re: Larry Bird/Hakeem Olajuwon vs Michael Jordan/Karl Malone

Posted: Sun Sep 8, 2019 4:24 pm
by gh123
Cavsfansince84 wrote:
gh123 wrote:
henshao wrote:
Larry Bird, a choker?

Do tell


Choked in many series vs easy opponents and that led to Bpston losing the series.


Which easy opponent would you be referring to outside of the 83 Milwaukee series? His team losing a series doesn't necessarily mean he choked either.


We had 2 threads on it in the last year or so with his stats and all those HCA loses. He had like 7 I think and he played poorly in 6 of them, dragged his team down.

Re: Larry Bird/Hakeem Olajuwon vs Michael Jordan/Karl Malone

Posted: Sun Sep 8, 2019 4:25 pm
by Cavsfansince84
gh123 wrote:
Cavsfansince84 wrote:
gh123 wrote:
Choked in many series vs easy opponents and that led to Bpston losing the series.


Which easy opponent would you be referring to outside of the 83 Milwaukee series? His team losing a series doesn't necessarily mean he choked either.


We had 2 threads on it in the last year or so with his stats and all those HCA loses. He had like 7 I think and he played poorly in 6 of them, dragged his team down.


You specifically said against easy opponents though. I asked which easy opponents and Bird post 89 wouldn't be relevant imo.