#22 - GOAT peaks project (2019)

Moderators: Quotatious, Clyde Frazier, trex_8063, penbeast0, Doctor MJ, PaulieWal

User avatar
LA Bird
Starter
Posts: 2,113
And1: 1,347
Joined: Feb 16, 2015

#22 - GOAT peaks project (2019) 

Post#1 » by LA Bird » Fri Sep 6, 2019 4:13 pm

1) Michael Jordan 1990-91
2) LeBron James 2012-13
3) Wilt Chamberlain 1966-67
4) Shaquille O'Neal 1999-00
5) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1976-77
6) Tim Duncan 2002-03
7) Larry Bird 1985-86
8) Bill Russell 1963-64
9) Hakeem Olajuwon 1993-94
10) Magic Johnson 1986-87
11) Kevin Garnett 2003-04
12) Julius Erving 1975-76
13) Bill Walton 1976-77
14) Oscar Robertson 1963-64
15) Stephen Curry 2015-16
16) Dwyane Wade 2008-09
17) Jerry West 1965-66
18) David Robinson 1994-95
19) Dirk Nowitzki 2010-11
20) Kobe Bryant 2007-08
21) Tracy McGrady 2002-03

Please include at least 1 sentence of reasoning for each of your 3 picks. A simple list of names will not be counted.
If you're repeating votes from previous rounds, copy and paste the reasoning because "see previous thread for explanation" will not be counted as a valid vote.

Current deadline: 12pm noon September 9 Eastern Time
The deadline will be extended by 24 hours up to twice if there is less than 12 votes or there is a tie for first.


The Voting System:

Everyone gives their 1st choice (4.5 points), 2nd choice (3 points), and 3rd choice (2 points). Highest point-total wins the round.
You can use your 3 choices to vote for more than 1 season of the same player (if you think that the best 3 seasons among the players left belong all to the same player, nothing is stopping you from using all you 3 choices on that player), but you can't continue voting for other seasons of that player once he wins and gets his spot. The final list will be 1 season per player.

Thank you for your participation!

Spoiler:
freethedevil wrote:.

euroleague wrote:.

eminence wrote:.

Colbinii wrote:.

70sFan wrote:.

trex_8063 wrote:.

E-Balla wrote:.

penbeast0 wrote:.

Ambrose wrote:.

Lou Fan wrote:.

Amares wrote:.

Clyde Frazier wrote:.

yoyoboy wrote:.

Dr Spaceman wrote:.

dontcalltimeout wrote:.

DatAsh wrote:.

PCProductions wrote:.

LA Bird wrote:.

Gregoire wrote:.

_Game7_ wrote:.

Point-Forward wrote:.

Jaivl wrote:.

drza wrote:.

pandrade83 wrote:.

Timmyyy wrote:.

HHera187 wrote:.

Bel wrote:.

Dr Positivity wrote:.

Vladimir777 wrote:.

Samurai wrote:.

ardee wrote:.

Owly wrote:.

Sublime187 wrote:.

Homer38 wrote:.

Joey Wheeler wrote:.

JoeMalburg wrote:.

Blackmill wrote:.

cecilthesheep wrote:.

No-more-rings wrote:.

liamliam1234 wrote:.
User avatar
E-Balla
RealGM
Posts: 30,348
And1: 18,721
Joined: Dec 19, 2012
Location: The Poster Formerly Known As The Gotham City Pantalones
   

Re: #22 - GOAT peaks project (2019) 

Post#2 » by E-Balla » Fri Sep 6, 2019 6:37 pm

Odinn dropped the ball so instead of being able to make a case for someone new I still gotta vote for Moses. :lol:

E-Balla wrote:1. 83 Moses Malone - The short version is that Moses was the best player in the league, on an historically great team, with great +/- estimates, and a gamebreaking ability on the offensive boards (averaged 6.5 offensive rebounds a game from 79 to 83). The gap between him and Curry who has that same argument (replace rebounding with 3 point shooting) is that outside of that one amazing ability Moses was still well above average at everything else. His jumper, defense (in 83 at least), and post game was already solid. His one weakness was his weak passing ability but it didn't hinder his chance to lead great or mediocre teams so I don't know how much it concerns me.

2. 17 Russell Westbrook - I'm on record since 2017 saying next to 09 LeBron this is the best season I've seen since I've watched basketball religiously. The short version here is that he averaged a 30 point triple double, made 200 three pointers, was the most clutch player ever (sidebar but this is one of my favorite posts in RealGM history, and it perfectly encapsulates exactly how clutch he was), and averaged 37/12/11 in the playoffs while destroying Houston, only losing because his team was the worst team I've ever seen in the playoffs without him on the floor. Unlike many here he had to also overcome horrible fitting teammates (they had the worst 3 point percentage in the league outside of him) and the worst coach in the league.

3. 82 Moses Malone - Spoilered my original vote. New vote is 82 Moses. At first I was thinking his defense was too bad to place this highly especially with the loss in the 1st round but on second thought it's his best offensive season and the season where he did the most lifting for his team. I still think it pales compared to the carry job Wade did in 09 and Westbrook did in 17 but it's pretty damn good.
"The hottest place in Hell is reserved for those who remain neutral in times of great moral conflict." - Martin Luther King
DatAsh
Senior
Posts: 517
And1: 277
Joined: Sep 25, 2015

Re: #22 - GOAT peaks project (2019) 

Post#3 » by DatAsh » Fri Sep 6, 2019 7:03 pm

E-Balla wrote:Odinn dropped the ball so instead of being able to make a case for someone new I still gotta vote for Moses. :lol:

E-Balla wrote:1. 83 Moses Malone - The short version is that Moses was the best player in the league, on an historically great team, with great +/- estimates, and a gamebreaking ability on the offensive boards (averaged 6.5 offensive rebounds a game from 79 to 83). The gap between him and Curry who has that same argument (replace rebounding with 3 point shooting) is that outside of that one amazing ability Moses was still well above average at everything else. His jumper, defense (in 83 at least), and post game was already solid. His one weakness was his weak passing ability but it didn't hinder his chance to lead great or mediocre teams so I don't know how much it concerns me.

2. 17 Russell Westbrook - I'm on record since 2017 saying next to 09 LeBron this is the best season I've seen since I've watched basketball religiously. The short version here is that he averaged a 30 point triple double, made 200 three pointers, was the most clutch player ever (sidebar but this is one of my favorite posts in RealGM history, and it perfectly encapsulates exactly how clutch he was), and averaged 37/12/11 in the playoffs while destroying Houston, only losing because his team was the worst team I've ever seen in the playoffs without him on the floor. Unlike many here he had to also overcome horrible fitting teammates (they had the worst 3 point percentage in the league outside of him) and the worst coach in the league.

3. 82 Moses Malone - Spoilered my original vote. New vote is 82 Moses. At first I was thinking his defense was too bad to place this highly especially with the loss in the 1st round but on second thought it's his best offensive season and the season where he did the most lifting for his team. I still think it pales compared to the carry job Wade did in 09 and Westbrook did in 17 but it's pretty damn good.


I'm in the same boat. I'm dreading starting to vote for 2016 Draymond, as I know that's another boat I'm gonna have set sail on for quite awhile.
freethedevil
Analyst
Posts: 3,183
And1: 1,728
Joined: Dec 09, 2018
         

Re: #22 - GOAT peaks project (2019) 

Post#4 » by freethedevil » Fri Sep 6, 2019 7:50 pm

Think it's time for

2019 giannis
-> anchored a historically great team on both ends, both as the primary facilitator, defensive anchor, and scoring weapon. It took an atg championship winning defense giving him the pistons treatment to stop him and even then it was by the slimmest of margins. His decimation of a strong celtics defense was quite impressive as well. His passing limitations cost him vs the raptors but no one yet to be listed is strong enough of an offensive threat to warrant anything close to the defensive attention giannis warranted and when you add that to being one of the game's best scorers and a top 5 defender, you get a worthy pick for this spot. He has the highest corp +/- evaluation and the second highest corp. I'm hesitant to put him below the #1 in corp here, largely because I disagree with ben's analysis of kd's portability, but more on that later.

2017 Durant
-> Was one of two seasons in his career his defense was noteworthy and actually significant. I don't view his offense as significantly lower than his 2014 self who was able to lead a great rs team with or without westbrook(the playoffs are another story). Pretty one dimensional but at this rate so is the rest of the competition. He comes pretty close to giannis's +/- evaluation. That said, I'm not convinced he's portable at all. Much is made of his ability to "raise the cieling" of the warriors but given his skillset which is basically scoring, i'm rather hesitant to give him credit for this cieling raising when he's playing with better shooters and passers.

Players I'm considering a vote for at #3
-> 2017 Westbrook
-> 2016 draymond green
-> 1962/63 Moses Malone
-> Some version of Patrick Ewing
-> 2019 Kawhi
Odinn21
Junior
Posts: 310
And1: 236
Joined: May 19, 2019
   

Re: #22 - GOAT peaks project (2019) 

Post#5 » by Odinn21 » Fri Sep 6, 2019 7:59 pm

E-Balla wrote:Odinn dropped the ball so instead of being able to make a case for someone new I still gotta vote for Moses. :lol:

Wait, what?
Did my 1st and 2nd ballot votes get counter or not?

I’ve been away from PC because I had an operation in the city my parents live a few weeks ago, and I had to go an emergency room about it today. I got home an hour ago, finally get my hands on my phone. Opened the website to see McGrady made the list before Moses, I was fuming till seeing your post. Am I the reason of this situation?
User avatar
E-Balla
RealGM
Posts: 30,348
And1: 18,721
Joined: Dec 19, 2012
Location: The Poster Formerly Known As The Gotham City Pantalones
   

Re: #22 - GOAT peaks project (2019) 

Post#6 » by E-Balla » Fri Sep 6, 2019 8:02 pm

DatAsh wrote:
E-Balla wrote:Odinn dropped the ball so instead of being able to make a case for someone new I still gotta vote for Moses. :lol:

E-Balla wrote:1. 83 Moses Malone - The short version is that Moses was the best player in the league, on an historically great team, with great +/- estimates, and a gamebreaking ability on the offensive boards (averaged 6.5 offensive rebounds a game from 79 to 83). The gap between him and Curry who has that same argument (replace rebounding with 3 point shooting) is that outside of that one amazing ability Moses was still well above average at everything else. His jumper, defense (in 83 at least), and post game was already solid. His one weakness was his weak passing ability but it didn't hinder his chance to lead great or mediocre teams so I don't know how much it concerns me.

2. 17 Russell Westbrook - I'm on record since 2017 saying next to 09 LeBron this is the best season I've seen since I've watched basketball religiously. The short version here is that he averaged a 30 point triple double, made 200 three pointers, was the most clutch player ever (sidebar but this is one of my favorite posts in RealGM history, and it perfectly encapsulates exactly how clutch he was), and averaged 37/12/11 in the playoffs while destroying Houston, only losing because his team was the worst team I've ever seen in the playoffs without him on the floor. Unlike many here he had to also overcome horrible fitting teammates (they had the worst 3 point percentage in the league outside of him) and the worst coach in the league.

3. 82 Moses Malone - Spoilered my original vote. New vote is 82 Moses. At first I was thinking his defense was too bad to place this highly especially with the loss in the 1st round but on second thought it's his best offensive season and the season where he did the most lifting for his team. I still think it pales compared to the carry job Wade did in 09 and Westbrook did in 17 but it's pretty damn good.


I'm in the same boat. I'm dreading starting to vote for 2016 Draymond, as I know that's another boat I'm gonna have set sail on for quite awhile.

By quite a while you must mean "until the end of the list" because I don't see Draymond making the cut here.
"The hottest place in Hell is reserved for those who remain neutral in times of great moral conflict." - Martin Luther King
User avatar
E-Balla
RealGM
Posts: 30,348
And1: 18,721
Joined: Dec 19, 2012
Location: The Poster Formerly Known As The Gotham City Pantalones
   

Re: #22 - GOAT peaks project (2019) 

Post#7 » by E-Balla » Fri Sep 6, 2019 8:04 pm

Odinn21 wrote:
E-Balla wrote:Odinn dropped the ball so instead of being able to make a case for someone new I still gotta vote for Moses. :lol:

Wait, what?
Did my 1st and 2nd ballot votes get counter or not?

I’ve been away from PC because I had an operation in the city my parents live a few weeks ago, and I had to go an emergency room about it today. I got home an hour ago, finally get my hands on my phone. Opened the website to see McGrady made the list before Moses, I was fuming till seeing your post. Am I the reason of this situation?

Votes aren't counted unless they're given to all 3 players. The rule makes sense, for all we know your 3rd spot could've ended up T-Mac (he was on your shortlist IIRC) and he would've made it in anyway.
"The hottest place in Hell is reserved for those who remain neutral in times of great moral conflict." - Martin Luther King
Odinn21
Junior
Posts: 310
And1: 236
Joined: May 19, 2019
   

Re: #22 - GOAT peaks project (2019) 

Post#8 » by Odinn21 » Fri Sep 6, 2019 8:10 pm

E-Balla wrote:
Odinn21 wrote:
E-Balla wrote:Odinn dropped the ball so instead of being able to make a case for someone new I still gotta vote for Moses. :lol:

Wait, what?
Did my 1st and 2nd ballot votes get counter or not?

I’ve been away from PC because I had an operation in the city my parents live a few weeks ago, and I had to go an emergency room about it today. I got home an hour ago, finally get my hands on my phone. Opened the website to see McGrady made the list before Moses, I was fuming till seeing your post. Am I the reason of this situation?

Votes aren't counted unless they're given to all 3 players. The rule makes sense, for all we know your 3rd spot could've ended up T-Mac (he was on your shortlist IIRC) and he would've made it in anyway.

Yeah. I was going to vote for Ewing (the discussion about him was pretty good) but with knowing the result, probably it will be perceived as manipulative either way. So, carrying on is the best option.

BTW, there’s no indication of 3 votes requirement in the rules. Anyways.

1. 1983 Moses Malone
Well, it’s too hard to pick a single season for Moses from 1980-81 to 1982-83. Three great choices... But I’m gonna go with the safest choice. Dominant on every level. According to my own calculations (based on box score numbers though), Moses was on par with many goat level legends such as MJ, Bird, Magic, LeBron regarding performance on a loaded team. Playing on a loaded team, and benefiting from it, is not a con for Moses because he performed as well as anybody.

2. 1993 Charles Barkley
Natural scorer and rebounder and it wasn’t like he didn’t pay attention on defense in this particular season. That WCF performance was something to behold. The Sonics were 5th in ppg allowed and 2nd drtg (also, despite the W numbers, they led the league in SRS) and that 44/24 game 7 performance is one of the best ever game 7 performances. Also, despite losing in 6, the Suns didn’t get outscored by the Bulls in the NBA Finals. That was the level of Chuck elevating the team. I’m particularly big on this because there are team performances winning the series despite not outscoring the opponent but those series are usually decided in the last game, either game 5 or game 7. Not in this case.

3. 1993 Ewing
He was the anchor of goat level defensive team with a capable offensive power. Number wise 1990 looks better for him but I think Riley brought out the best of him.
penbeast0
Senior Mod - NBA Player Comparisons
Senior Mod - NBA Player Comparisons
Posts: 21,200
And1: 3,697
Joined: Aug 14, 2004
Location: South Florida
   

Re: #22 - GOAT peaks project (2019) 

Post#9 » by penbeast0 » Fri Sep 6, 2019 8:12 pm

freethedevil wrote:-> 1962/63 Moses Malone


I know he was a prodigy, but he's only 8 years old then.
[quote="Nivek"] This post could come only from a Wizards fan. It somehow combines delusional optimism with soul-crushing pessimism.
DatAsh
Senior
Posts: 517
And1: 277
Joined: Sep 25, 2015

Re: #22 - GOAT peaks project (2019) 

Post#10 » by DatAsh » Fri Sep 6, 2019 8:15 pm

E-Balla wrote:
DatAsh wrote:
E-Balla wrote:Odinn dropped the ball so instead of being able to make a case for someone new I still gotta vote for Moses. :lol:



I'm in the same boat. I'm dreading starting to vote for 2016 Draymond, as I know that's another boat I'm gonna have set sail on for quite awhile.

By quite a while you must mean "until the end of the list" because I don't see Draymond making the cut here.


Pretty much.
User avatar
Clyde Frazier
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 14,575
And1: 14,330
Joined: Sep 07, 2010

Re: #22 - GOAT peaks project (2019) 

Post#11 » by Clyde Frazier » Fri Sep 6, 2019 9:20 pm

Ballot #1 - 90 Ewing
Ballot #2 - 93 Barkley
Ballot #3 - 83 Moses

- - - - -

Ballot #1 - 90 Ewing

Lending some support for Ewing here. Being at his peak athletically in 1990, Ewing was a workhorse on both ends of the floor. His combination of volume scoring on great efficiency and ability to anchor a defense should be worthy of this range. Led the 13th ranked SRS knicks to a 1st round upset of the 8th ranked SRS celtics in the first round. Would end up being eliminated by the eventual champion pistons, put still put up a valiant effort in the series, with 27.2 PPG. 9.6 RPG, 2.2 APG, .8 SPG, 2.2 BPG on 56% TS. Pistons also ranked 2nd in defense that season. If only Riley got his hands on Ewing a few years earlier...

Ballot #2 - 93 Barkley

Totally see a case for 90 being his peak, but I like Barkley’s more refined game in PHX where he was still an excellent athlete (and in amazing shape), but was a little less reckless. Of course he had more talent around him, but I think that slightly toned down version helped them get as far as they did in the postseason. I’m not quite sure 90 barkley gets them there.

93 WCF game 7 against the sonics - 44 PTS / 22 REB / 1 AST / 1 STL / 1 BLK / 74.1% TS / 167 ORTG :o



Ballot #3 - 83 Moses

The main thing that sticks out to me here: I think people tend to forget how rare it is when a team wins a championship in the first year after adding a major piece like moses. Celtics did it in 08, but heat failed to do it with lebron in 2011, shaq in 97, gasol in 08, etc. So i'd point to moses' ability to adapt to that team at such a high level a skill in of itself. He had a dominant reg season and performed even better come playoff time. What he did well, he did extremely well. That's enough for me over a more versatile skill set another player might bring.
Sublime187
Senior
Posts: 743
And1: 476
Joined: Dec 17, 2013

Re: #22 - GOAT peaks project (2019) 

Post#12 » by Sublime187 » Fri Sep 6, 2019 9:27 pm

E-Balla wrote:
DatAsh wrote:
E-Balla wrote:Odinn dropped the ball so instead of being able to make a case for someone new I still gotta vote for Moses. :lol:



I'm in the same boat. I'm dreading starting to vote for 2016 Draymond, as I know that's another boat I'm gonna have set sail on for quite awhile.

By quite a while you must mean "until the end of the list" because I don't see Draymond making the cut here.


Lmao! To the comment not the inclusion of Draymond.
Sublime187
Senior
Posts: 743
And1: 476
Joined: Dec 17, 2013

Re: #22 - GOAT peaks project (2019) 

Post#13 » by Sublime187 » Fri Sep 6, 2019 9:31 pm

Does TMac really deserve to be in before guys like Barkley, Ewing, Moses or even Durant? I think it's a bit too high for him IMO.
No-more-rings
Starter
Posts: 2,042
And1: 854
Joined: Oct 04, 2018

Re: #22 - GOAT peaks project (2019) 

Post#14 » by No-more-rings » Fri Sep 6, 2019 9:55 pm

Sublime187 wrote:Does TMac really deserve to be in before guys like Barkley, Ewing, Moses or even Durant? I think it's a bit too high for him IMO.

I think it’s fair for him. You’d have to really knock his peak for being an outlier for it to fall like out of the top 25.
No-more-rings
Starter
Posts: 2,042
And1: 854
Joined: Oct 04, 2018

Re: #22 - GOAT peaks project (2019) 

Post#15 » by No-more-rings » Fri Sep 6, 2019 10:01 pm

1. 90 Pat Ewing- Highly efficient volume scorer and defensive anchor, took it to the Celtics in the 1st round dropping 31.6 ppg/59.7 ts%, and won in 5 who appeared to would’ve been favored over them that year, still managed 27 ppg/56 ts% against the eventual champion and very strong defense Pistons.

2. 19’ Kawhi- For me it’s as simple as his playoff run being imo better than anyone else who’s left. Yeah he missed 20ish games, but he accomplished what everyone strives to do and only some can dream of. And 2017 proved he can play a full season and still be rested enough to dominate, sure you can bring his durability into question, I remember him being a little banged up against the Warriors and maybe some of the Bucks series but he’s shown to have held up better than someone like Cp3 has proven.

3. 83 Moses- I think the 2 above him are more deserving, but i’m alright if he finally gets his due. Great offensive player, rebounder and data we have shows a clear positive on defense, best player on that dominant sixers team.
DatAsh
Senior
Posts: 517
And1: 277
Joined: Sep 25, 2015

Re: #22 - GOAT peaks project (2019) 

Post#16 » by DatAsh » Sat Sep 7, 2019 12:14 am

Sublime187 wrote:Does TMac really deserve to be in before guys like Barkley, Ewing, Moses or even Durant? I think it's a bit too high for him IMO.


I think it's fair. I'd have him below most or all of those guys, but I think it's fair for him to be here.
User avatar
E-Balla
RealGM
Posts: 30,348
And1: 18,721
Joined: Dec 19, 2012
Location: The Poster Formerly Known As The Gotham City Pantalones
   

Re: #22 - GOAT peaks project (2019) 

Post#17 » by E-Balla » Sat Sep 7, 2019 1:18 am

DatAsh wrote:
Sublime187 wrote:Does TMac really deserve to be in before guys like Barkley, Ewing, Moses or even Durant? I think it's a bit too high for him IMO.


I think it's fair. I'd have him below most or all of those guys, but I think it's fair for him to be here.

He was 22nd last time too so this is about where he'd be expected to go off the boards.
"The hottest place in Hell is reserved for those who remain neutral in times of great moral conflict." - Martin Luther King
DatAsh
Senior
Posts: 517
And1: 277
Joined: Sep 25, 2015

Re: #22 - GOAT peaks project (2019) 

Post#18 » by DatAsh » Sat Sep 7, 2019 2:06 am

Tracy is really weird in that he has 1 year that is almost Jordan/Lebron level, at least offensively. I've got no problem with him being voted in this high.
User avatar
cecilthesheep
Junior
Posts: 411
And1: 256
Joined: Sep 17, 2018
 

Re: #22 - GOAT peaks project (2019) 

Post#19 » by cecilthesheep » Sat Sep 7, 2019 5:59 am

cecilthesheep wrote:1. 1949 George Mikan - Mikan's peak was so far above his contemporaries that I don't think I can leave him out any longer. He was the most unstoppable scorer of basketball's first decade or two, he raised his game in the playoffs to lead his team to 5 titles in 6 years and create the league's first dynasty, and this was his most dominant year.

2. 1950 George Mikan - same player, second-best year, basically the same level of performance

3. 1983 Moses Malone - Okay, I've been convinced. Best offensive rebounder of his era and possibly ever. Somehow scored 25-30 ppg consistently without much of an iso game compared to his peers. All his advanced stats peak in '83, plus he won MVP, first team all defense, and Finals MVP. Seems like the strongest clear choice remaining to me. I could maybe be convinced otherwise because of his underwhelming impact stats, but this is what I'm going with for now.

Next tier I'm thinking about: Nash, Barkley, Ewing, CP3, and yes, Karl Malone
All-Time Spurs

T. Parker '13 | J. Silas '76 | J. Moore '83
G. Gervin '78 | M. Ginóbili '08 | A. Robertson '88
K. Leonard '17 | S. Elliott '95 | B. Bowen '05
T. Duncan '03 | L. Aldridge '18 | T. Cummings '90
D. Robinson '95 | A. Gilmore '83 | S. Nater '75
User avatar
liamliam1234
Junior
Posts: 290
And1: 265
Joined: Jul 24, 2019
         

Re: #22 - GOAT peaks project (2019) 

Post#20 » by liamliam1234 » Sat Sep 7, 2019 6:10 am

Given Barkley’s limited at best defensive impact, what exactly is the case for him over Giannis? Is it mostly just that bad Raptors series which is keeping people from voting for him? Because Giannis also scored efficiently and at a high rate; in terms of points per game/possession, this past season was a fair bit beyond 1990 Barkley. I would say they were both similar levels of passer. Barkley had major offensive impact, but Giannis’s impact metrics are even better overall because his defence is in a different stratosphere.

I could raise a similar inquiry about Ewing, but Ewing at least had strong two-way impact, so that is not as curious a vote.
Eballa wrote:The gap here is I'm not trying to tell people they're wrong for what they value.
Eballa wrote:I'm saying you're wrong for valuing a style of play that led to a worse team offense

Return to Player Comparisons