How many have a logical case for GOAT?

[70sFan]

No difference, dominating in 40s/50s era is making you neither basketball nor NBA GOAT.

That's your opinion and others can have their own.

Of course, each of us can believe Brian Scalabrine is GOAT. Still we try to stay serious here.

Scalabrine was never the best player in NBA, let alone for almost decade.

I won't continue this debate anymore because it's meaningless. I already said that I don't have Mikan close to my GOAT, but saying he doesn't have any serious case just isn't fair to him.

If being good back then so easy, then why Mikan was so far ahead of the rest? It's not like he was the only bigman or that the rest didn't have the same access to training or nurtition as Mikan.

[Franco]

That's your opinion and others can have their own.

Of course, each of us can believe Brian Scalabrine is GOAT. Still we try to stay serious here.

Scalabrine was never the best player in NBA, let alone for almost decade.

I won't continue this debate anymore because it's meaningless. I already said that I don't have Mikan close to my GOAT, but saying he doesn't have any serious case just isn't fair to him.

If being good back then so easy, then why Mikan was so far ahead of the rest? It's not like he was the only bigman or that the rest didn't have the same access to training or nurtition as Mikan.

What do you mean? Scal was the undisputed best player in the world for 15 years.

[Amares]

That's your opinion and others can have their own.

Of course, each of us can believe Brian Scalabrine is GOAT. Still we try to stay serious here.

Scalabrine was never the best player in NBA, let alone for almost decade.

I won't continue this debate anymore because it's meaningless. I already said that I don't have Mikan close to my GOAT, but saying he doesn't have any serious case just isn't fair to him.

If being good back then so easy, then why Mikan was so far ahead of the rest? It's not like he was the only bigman or that the rest didn't have the same access to training or nurtition as Mikan.

He would have a strong case if he played in 40s. And Mikan was best for 5, maybe 6 years, not almost a decade. Mikan doesn't have any serious case for GOAT, so as Stockton, Gervin or Ginobili or any other player who's not even close to top 20.
"If being good back then so easy, then why Mikan was so far ahead of the rest? "
Because the rest was so bad. Dominating so bad players will never make you goat candidade.

[Morb]

Wilt, Lebron, Jabbar, Jordan.

[colts19]

What I don't understand is, during Larry Birds career many people were saying he was GOAT. So before Jordan came along, most people thought Bird was better than Russell, Wilt, and KAJ hardly anyone ranked Magic as good as Bird. So how is it that Bird wasn't even an option in this poll?

[freethedevil]

What I don't understand is, during Larry Birds career many people were saying he was GOAT. So before Jordan came along, most people thought Bird was better than Russell, Wilt, and KAJ hardly anyone ranked Magic as good as Bird. So how is it that Bird wasn't even an option in this poll?

What I don't understand is why people keep acting like past consensus is ever a compelling case. More information has come, newer players have come. If the information isn't being used properly, show that. If not, then who cares.

[colts19]

What I don't understand is, during Larry Birds career many people were saying he was GOAT. So before Jordan came along, most people thought Bird was better than Russell, Wilt, and KAJ hardly anyone ranked Magic as good as Bird. So how is it that Bird wasn't even an option in this poll?

What I don't understand is why people keep acting like past consensus is ever a compelling case. More information has come, newer players have come. If the information isn't being used properly, show that. If not, then who cares.

Past consensus was that Bird was better then, than those players. I understand more players have come since then. But if he was better than those players then why would he not be better now.

[freethedevil]

What I don't understand is, during Larry Birds career many people were saying he was GOAT. So before Jordan came along, most people thought Bird was better than Russell, Wilt, and KAJ hardly anyone ranked Magic as good as Bird. So how is it that Bird wasn't even an option in this poll?

What I don't understand is why people keep acting like past consensus is ever a compelling case. More information has come, newer players have come. If the information isn't being used properly, show that. If not, then who cares.

Past consensus was that Bird was better then, than those players. I understand more players have come since then. But if he was better than those players then why would he not be better now.

People thought he was better. Now they don't.

The answer is longetivity and now new information regarding russell and kareem. That people thought he was better doesn't prove he was better so again, who cares?

[Doctor MJ]

What I don't understand is, during Larry Birds career many people were saying he was GOAT. So before Jordan came along, most people thought Bird was better than Russell, Wilt, and KAJ hardly anyone ranked Magic as good as Bird. So how is it that Bird wasn't even an option in this poll?

I thought about talking about Bird but decided against it because he wasn't listed and I don't think he really has a case the way things turned out.

But I believe I understand why people immediately thought Bird was a major leap forward in what was possible from what came before. He just played differently, and more actively intelligent, than anyone who played before. That was why he was able to come to the Celtics and have the kind of impact that rookies basically never have.

I also think that Bird would likely be incredible today with his combination of intelligence, shooting, and size.

But his career got shortened, and most everyone ended up believing that Jordan became better than Bird ever was. He remains respected but doesn't have a serious case for the #1 spot by any traditional way of evaluating GOATs.

[Samurai]

NBA merger only: Jordan Duncan LeBron Shaq Kawhi are all my goat worthy five. Kawhi is more of a projection obviously but he's on pace for that. All 5 players at their peaks are physically dominant, elite offense, elite defense, elite leadership. Best players I've seen since the NBA merger.

By definition, this doesn't make sense to me. The consensus definition of GOAT is Greatest of All Time. If you are limiting it to post-merger period only, this should be posted in a different thread, such as the "How Many Have a Logical Case for GOP-ME (Greatest of Post-Merger Era), not a GOAT thread.

[HeartBreakKid]

What I don't understand is, during Larry Birds career many people were saying he was GOAT. So before Jordan came along, most people thought Bird was better than Russell, Wilt, and KAJ hardly anyone ranked Magic as good as Bird. So how is it that Bird wasn't even an option in this poll?

What I don't understand is why people keep acting like past consensus is ever a compelling case. More information has come, newer players have come. If the information isn't being used properly, show that. If not, then who cares.

Past consensus was that Bird was better then, than those players. I understand more players have come since then. But if he was better than those players then why would he not be better now.

People thought Larry Bird was the GOAT because he was the best player in the league at that time. The best player in the present in any sport will always have an argument for GOAT.

It wasn't some universal consensus that Larry Bird was the GOAT. Also, many people got ino basketball in the 80s - many people saw Bird and Magic but did not know much about Dr. J, Abdul-Jabar, Russell, Chamberlain, West etc.

In other words more people knew who Larry Bird was than Bill Russell (still true to this day), this isn't much different than someone in the 00s or today saying Kobe Bryant was better than Wilt Chamberlain - more people are familiar with Kobe Bryant, hence more people will argue he is the GOAT over someone they don't know or barely know.

It's not really relevant either, as we know more about both 80s and 60s basketball today than people in the 80s did. Just like we know a lot more about the 1800s now then people who actually lived in the 1800s.


Larry Bird's argument for GOAT is incredibly outdated, and many people usually argue that he is the goat simply because people used to say he was the goat.

[penbeast0]

Wilt, Lebron, Jabbar, Jordan.

Of course, considering you added the list as backup, your 4 serious candidates for GOAT would be Kareem, Wilt, K. Malone, and LeBron with MJ not quite making the 225 cut. Nice to see a list without MJ on it

[HBK_Kliq_33]

NBA merger only: Jordan Duncan LeBron Shaq Kawhi are all my goat worthy five. Kawhi is more of a projection obviously but he's on pace for that. All 5 players at their peaks are physically dominant, elite offense, elite defense, elite leadership. Best players I've seen since the NBA merger.

By definition, this doesn't make sense to me. The consensus definition of GOAT is Greatest of All Time. If you are limiting it to post-merger period only, this should be posted in a different thread, such as the "How Many Have a Logical Case for GOP-ME (Greatest of Post-Merger Era), not a GOAT thread.

Those are my greatest of all time in the NBA era. ABA I haven't seen as much.

[Samurai]

NBA merger only: Jordan Duncan LeBron Shaq Kawhi are all my goat worthy five. Kawhi is more of a projection obviously but he's on pace for that. All 5 players at their peaks are physically dominant, elite offense, elite defense, elite leadership. Best players I've seen since the NBA merger.

By definition, this doesn't make sense to me. The consensus definition of GOAT is Greatest of All Time. If you are limiting it to post-merger period only, this should be posted in a different thread, such as the "How Many Have a Logical Case for GOP-ME (Greatest of Post-Merger Era), not a GOAT thread.

Those are my greatest of all time in the NBA era. ABA I haven't seen as much.

The NBA era dates back to around 1950, long before the merger. If the OP stipulates that this should be a discussion for NBA GOAT candidates only (not ABA), then it should cover the NBA era. Again, if you add artificial limitations (no ABA, post-merger only, etc.), it is by definition no longer a GOAT discussion and should be in a separate GOP-ME discussion.

[HBK_Kliq_33]

By definition, this doesn't make sense to me. The consensus definition of GOAT is Greatest of All Time. If you are limiting it to post-merger period only, this should be posted in a different thread, such as the "How Many Have a Logical Case for GOP-ME (Greatest of Post-Merger Era), not a GOAT thread.

Those are my greatest of all time in the NBA era. ABA I haven't seen as much.

The NBA era dates back to around 1950, long before the merger. If the OP stipulates that this should be a discussion for NBA GOAT candidates only (not ABA), then it should cover the NBA era. Again, if you add artificial limitations (no ABA, post-merger only, etc.), it is by definition no longer a GOAT discussion and should be in a separate GOP-ME discussion.

It doesn't make sense to me to compare the ABA era to the post merger NBA era because there was more talent and more competition. 1950s and 1960s there wasn't enough teams in the NBA and than there was the ABA era in the 1970s. Both significant flaws to compare them across an era. So to make it a reasonable cutoff, I think post merger era is good. So basically, post merger period is the only time when the comparisons become fair due to ABA 1970s era and lack of teams in the NBA during 50s and 60s.

[JordansBulls]

Technically anyone who was the dominant force for there era and it is clear. So 60's Russell, 70's Kareem, 80's (Split (Magic/Bird), so no GOAT), 90's MJ, 00's (Split (Shaq, Duncan, Kobe), so no GOAT), 10's Lebron

[Morb]

Wilt, Lebron, Jabbar, Jordan.

Of course, considering you added the list as backup, your 4 serious candidates for GOAT would be Kareem, Wilt, K. Malone, and LeBron with MJ not quite making the 225 cut. Nice to see a list without MJ on it

Yeah, I like that Jordan only #5.))
Actually, it must be RS+PO Total WS, but I don't like Duncan)) and it's unfair to 60s (two round format) and trashteams guys.

[Samurai]

Those are my greatest of all time in the NBA era. ABA I haven't seen as much.

The NBA era dates back to around 1950, long before the merger. If the OP stipulates that this should be a discussion for NBA GOAT candidates only (not ABA), then it should cover the NBA era. Again, if you add artificial limitations (no ABA, post-merger only, etc.), it is by definition no longer a GOAT discussion and should be in a separate GOP-ME discussion.

It doesn't make sense to me to compare the ABA era to the post merger NBA era because there was more talent and more competition. 1950s and 1960s there wasn't enough teams in the NBA and than there was the ABA era in the 1970s. Both significant flaws to compare them across an era. So to make it a reasonable cutoff, I think post merger era is good. So basically, post merger period is the only time when the comparisons become fair due to ABA 1970s era and lack of teams in the NBA during 50s and 60s.

Fine. You may think it makes sense to you, although others can and do provide analysis on players from the pre-merger era. But it doesn't change the fact that you are no longer talking about "all time" regardless of your reasons for not doing so. Therefore it is no longer about GOAT candidates; it is about GOP-ME candidates which is a different topic.

[Goudelock]

Six for me - Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Jordan, Duncan and James. Magic has also a case, though I'm not convinced it's "logical" enough.

The case for Magic being the GOAT basically goes like this:

"My brain tells me there have been players who were more dominant scorers, defenders, or some combination of the two. But my eyes tell me that there isn't any player in the history of the NBA who I would have on my team more than Magic."

Not the most logical of cases, but it's what I'm going with. I guess another way of looking at it would be: In an all-time draft where you could draft any player in their prime to build your team around, would anyone be outraged if Magic Johnson was the first pick?

[KobesScarf]

Wilt
MJ
Bron

In that order