How many have a logical case for GOAT?

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Possible GOATs

1-MJ
96
24%
2-LBJ
82
21%
3-KAJ
76
19%
4-Wilt
37
9%
5-Russell
62
16%
6-Shaq
8
2%
7-Duncan
20
5%
8-Magic
8
2%
9-Hakeem
3
1%
10-Other
7
2%
 
Total votes: 399

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Re: How many have a logical case for GOAT? 

Post#81 » by 70sFan » Sun Sep 8, 2019 7:35 am

HBK_Kliq_33 wrote:NBA merger only: Jordan Duncan LeBron Shaq Kawhi are all my goat worthy five. Kawhi is more of a projection obviously but he's on pace for that. All 5 players at their peaks are physically dominant, elite offense, elite defense, elite leadership. Best players I've seen since the NBA merger.

Taking Kawhi over Kareem (even post merger only) is the clearest example of blind bias.

Kareem had at least 3 better seasons than Kawhi's best post merger. Kareem had better post-merger career than Kawhi has. Kareem was just better than Kawhi, how can you even question that?
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Re: How many have a logical case for GOAT? 

Post#82 » by AMW27 » Sun Sep 8, 2019 11:53 am

Well most know agree Michael Jordan is the goat. Right behind him I'll have Rusell and Duncan.

I don't think no one esle can have a case for goat.
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Re: How many have a logical case for GOAT? 

Post#83 » by penbeast0 » Sun Sep 8, 2019 1:23 pm

AMW27 wrote:Well most know agree Michael Jordan is the goat. Right behind him I'll have Rusell and Duncan.

I don't think no one esle can have a case for goat.


Why Duncan over Kareem?
[quote="Nivek"] This post could come only from a Wizards fan. It somehow combines delusional optimism with soul-crushing pessimism.
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Re: How many have a logical case for GOAT? 

Post#84 » by HBK_Kliq_33 » Sun Sep 8, 2019 2:19 pm

70sFan wrote:
HBK_Kliq_33 wrote:NBA merger only: Jordan Duncan LeBron Shaq Kawhi are all my goat worthy five. Kawhi is more of a projection obviously but he's on pace for that. All 5 players at their peaks are physically dominant, elite offense, elite defense, elite leadership. Best players I've seen since the NBA merger.

Taking Kawhi over Kareem (even post merger only) is the clearest example of blind bias.

Kareem had at least 3 better seasons than Kawhi's best post merger. Kareem had better post-merger career than Kawhi has. Kareem was just better than Kawhi, how can you even question that?


Kareems scoring volume started declining in the late 1970s and he didn't even finish off his championship run in 1980. Kawhi's 2019 playoff run is superior over kareem's 1980 playoff run because he finished the run healthy and carried a bigger load. Kawhi had a higher peak than post merger Kareem is all im saying.
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Re: How many have a logical case for GOAT? 

Post#85 » by 70sFan » Sun Sep 8, 2019 2:31 pm

HBK_Kliq_33 wrote:
70sFan wrote:
HBK_Kliq_33 wrote:NBA merger only: Jordan Duncan LeBron Shaq Kawhi are all my goat worthy five. Kawhi is more of a projection obviously but he's on pace for that. All 5 players at their peaks are physically dominant, elite offense, elite defense, elite leadership. Best players I've seen since the NBA merger.

Taking Kawhi over Kareem (even post merger only) is the clearest example of blind bias.

Kareem had at least 3 better seasons than Kawhi's best post merger. Kareem had better post-merger career than Kawhi has. Kareem was just better than Kawhi, how can you even question that?


Kareems scoring volume started declining in the late 1970s and he didn't even finish off his championship run in 1980. Kawhi's 2019 playoff run is superior over kareem's 1980 playoff run because he finished the run healthy and carried a bigger load. Kawhi had a higher peak than post merger Kareem is all im saying.


Kareem scored 35 ppg on 65% TS in 1977. He also averaged 32 ppg on 61% TS in 1980. All in less efficient league and with worse team in 1977 than Kawhi in 2019.

He missed one game and he would have played in game 7 if necessary. He played better than Kawhi in the finals.

In short - Kareem was better scorer than Kawhi (by any measure), he was also better defender and even in terms of passing he was better and more impactful. What is the case for Kawhi here? Other than having better team than Kareem in 1977 or Jabbar missing one game in 1980? Kareem was better in RS and in playoffs both years than any Kawhi year.
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Re: How many have a logical case for GOAT? 

Post#86 » by AMW27 » Sun Sep 8, 2019 2:46 pm

penbeast0 wrote:
AMW27 wrote:Well most know agree Michael Jordan is the goat. Right behind him I'll have Rusell and Duncan.

I don't think no one esle can have a case for goat.


Why Duncan over Kareem?
Duncan was the best player on his first four championship teams. You can even make a case he probably was the best player on the fifth one, even though he was past his prime. Consider what stage his teammates were at in their careers at the time also.

Kareem has an impressive resume. 6 titles. But in my opinion he was not the best player on most of those title teams.

I'm not knocking him because he was fortunate that Magic came on board. Not knocking him because he was fortunate to play on deep teams in the 1980s. But it is what is. He wasn't the best player on most of his teams to me.

Im my opinion Kareem should've already had more than one title on his resume before Magic came. If he had more than one title prior to Magic's arrival and had the exact same career he had with Magic, then I agree that he'd be a top 3 player of all time right now like most have him.

I know a lot of People will disagree with this but this is a good debate.
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Re: How many have a logical case for GOAT? 

Post#87 » by 70sFan » Sun Sep 8, 2019 2:58 pm

AMW27 wrote:
penbeast0 wrote:
AMW27 wrote:Well most know agree Michael Jordan is the goat. Right behind him I'll have Rusell and Duncan.

I don't think no one esle can have a case for goat.


Why Duncan over Kareem?
Duncan was the best player on his first four championship teams. You can even make a case he probably was the best player on the fifth one, even though he was past his prime. Consider what stage his teammates were at in their careers at the time also.

Kareem has an impressive resume. 6 titles. But in my opinion he was not the best player on most of those title teams.

I'm not knocking him because he was fortunate that Magic came on board. Not knocking him because he was fortunate to play on deep teams in the 1980s. But it is what is. He wasn't the best player on most of his teams to me.

Im my opinion Kareem should've already had more than one title on his resume before Magic came. If he had more than one title prior to Magic's arrival and had the exact same career he had with Magic, then I agree that he'd be a top 3 player of all time right now like most have him.

I know a lot of People will disagree with this but this is a good debate.

When exactly should Kareem have won another title before 1980 and what should he have done to actually accomplish that?
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Re: How many have a logical case for GOAT? 

Post#88 » by kendogg » Sun Sep 8, 2019 3:08 pm

Even if someone didn't value longevity and instead highly valued peak performance, Kareem still has a GOAT case. But guys like Wilt or Shaq become options as well in this case. Putting Duncan over these guys seems kind of silly. I'm not saying Duncan doesn't have a weak GOAT case (as illustrated in my previous post), but not in comparison to Kareem (who I think is just a slightly better version of Duncan) or, if measuring peaks, Wilt and Shaq.

The only possible argument I could see for Duncan over those guys is if you are somehow ranking Duncan as the best defensive player ever and "close enough" to being a top level scorer. But the fact of the matter is that those guys are on another level in terms of scoring. They each have unstoppable moves that allow them to completely dominate 1v1. On defense, for Wilt and Shaq there is also the intimidation factor in that they could easily break someone's hand/shoulder if they blocked a dunk and they were able to do so with their strength. For Kareem, he's got several inches on Duncan in both height and standing reach and is not only a better shotblocker but better ball thief as well as Kareem has some of the best hands ever for a big man. I mean just the fact that he could accurately hook shot from 16 feet should be an indication of his hands, but he also was a better thief than most forwards and even many guards.

Wilt, Shaq and Kareem warped defenses far more than Duncan. And in some ways were more effective on defense. All of them are better rebounders than Duncan by a good margin. Wilt and Kareem are obvious, and Shaq I didn't always give 100% effort in the regular season which hurt his numbers, but he pulled 15+ rpg in the playoffs twice in a row in a time where the league pace was at an all time low. Duncan is far more versatile on defense than any of those guys, but that isn't enough to overshadow everything else.
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Re: How many have a logical case for GOAT? 

Post#89 » by AMW27 » Sun Sep 8, 2019 3:24 pm

kendogg wrote:Even if someone didn't value longevity and instead highly valued peak performance, Kareem still has a GOAT case. But guys like Wilt or Shaq become options as well in this case. Putting Duncan over these guys seems kind of silly. I'm not saying Duncan doesn't have a weak GOAT case (as illustrated in my previous post), but not in comparison to Kareem (who I think is just a slightly better version of Duncan) or, if measuring peaks, Wilt and Shaq.

The only possible argument I could see for Duncan over those guys is if you are somehow ranking Duncan as the best defensive player ever and "close enough" to being a top level scorer. But the fact of the matter is that those guys are on another level in terms of scoring. They each have unstoppable moves that allow them to completely dominate 1v1. On defense, for Wilt and Shaq there is also the intimidation factor in that they could easily break someone's hand/shoulder if they blocked a dunk and they were able to do so with their strength. For Kareem, he's got several inches on Duncan in both height and standing reach and is not only a better shotblocker but better ball thief as well as Kareem has some of the best hands ever for a big man. I mean just the fact that he could accurately hook shot from 16 feet should be an indication of his hands, but he also was a better thief than most forwards and even many guards.

Wilt, Shaq and Kareem warped defenses far more than Duncan. And in some ways were more effective on defense. All of them are better rebounders than Duncan by a good margin. Wilt and Kareem are obvious, and Shaq I didn't always give 100% effort in the regular season which hurt his numbers, but he pulled 15+ rpg in the playoffs twice in a row in a time where the league pace was at an all time low. Duncan is far more versatile on defense than any of those guys, but that isn't enough to overshadow everything else.
Duncan in my opnion has had a better career than both Wilt and Shaq in my opinion. Which is why I have him ranked above both of them even though they were more dominant offensive players. Duncan was a great/dominant big man in his own right.

You can say how LeBron is a better offensive player than Duncan too. LeBron has great longevity and may have one of the best peaks ever. But thats still not enough for me to have him top 2 or 3 of all time like most do. For me he needs more on his resume.
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Re: How many have a logical case for GOAT? 

Post#90 » by freethedevil » Sun Sep 8, 2019 4:01 pm

Morb wrote:Wilt, Lebron, Jabbar, Jordan.
Image

You're forgetting malone. Or did w stop mattering when you didn't want it to.
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Re: How many have a logical case for GOAT? 

Post#91 » by bledredwine » Sun Sep 8, 2019 4:25 pm

freethedevil wrote:
migya wrote:Least failure, stepping up when it counted and winning with least talent - Jordan one and only.

Jordan failed more than russell did. That is emperical fact.


Not at all. He stated stepping up and winning with the least talent.
Go ahead and name one series where Jordan didn’t step up and kick major ass. A single series.
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Re: How many have a logical case for GOAT? 

Post#92 » by G35 » Sun Sep 8, 2019 4:41 pm

70sFan wrote:
picko wrote:Only four: MJ, LeBron, KAJ and Russell.

Can't include Wilt because consensus view from that era is that Russell was better.


I consider Russell better overall than Wilt, but there is no consensus in that aspect.



The only way you can consider Bill equal/greater to Wilt is if you are giving more weight to leadership, winning, intangibles.

Which I'm all for......
I'm so tired of the typical......
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Re: How many have a logical case for GOAT? 

Post#93 » by freethedevil » Sun Sep 8, 2019 4:44 pm

bledredwine wrote:
freethedevil wrote:
migya wrote:Least failure, stepping up when it counted and winning with least talent - Jordan one and only.

Jordan failed more than russell did. That is emperical fact.


Not at all. He stated stepping up and winning with the least talent.


Russel's celtics had a negative srs without him...

Go ahead and name one series where Jordan didn’t step up and kick major ass. A single series.

Multiple series vs the pistons, series vs the knicks, and series vs the celtics.

You know the ones where jordan proponents start complaining about how extensively defenses schemed against him? As if that hasn't happened to other atg's? :lol:

Russell only failed to kick ass when he was injured or when facing the 60's version of the warriors, who he still beat 2/3 times(as a player coach).
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Re: How many have a logical case for GOAT? 

Post#94 » by HBK_Kliq_33 » Sun Sep 8, 2019 5:16 pm

70sFan wrote:
HBK_Kliq_33 wrote:
70sFan wrote:Taking Kawhi over Kareem (even post merger only) is the clearest example of blind bias.

Kareem had at least 3 better seasons than Kawhi's best post merger. Kareem had better post-merger career than Kawhi has. Kareem was just better than Kawhi, how can you even question that?


Kareems scoring volume started declining in the late 1970s and he didn't even finish off his championship run in 1980. Kawhi's 2019 playoff run is superior over kareem's 1980 playoff run because he finished the run healthy and carried a bigger load. Kawhi had a higher peak than post merger Kareem is all im saying.


Kareem scored 35 ppg on 65% TS in 1977. He also averaged 32 ppg on 61% TS in 1980. All in less efficient league and with worse team in 1977 than Kawhi in 2019.

He missed one game and he would have played in game 7 if necessary. He played better than Kawhi in the finals.

In short - Kareem was better scorer than Kawhi (by any measure), he was also better defender and even in terms of passing he was better and more impactful. What is the case for Kawhi here? Other than having better team than Kareem in 1977 or Jabbar missing one game in 1980? Kareem was better in RS and in playoffs both years than any Kawhi year.


Kareem never had the carry job that Kawhi did, he was playing with another superstar in Magic. Kawhi has played with Aldridge and Lowry. Huge huge gap there. 1980s Kareem was spoiled like 2017-2019 Durant, he played with a player arguably better than him.

Kawhi 2017 = Kareem 1980

Both couldn't close for their teams.

Kawhi 2019 > Kareem 1982

You are underrating 2017 and 2019 Leonard defense. He was still great defensively but just coasted a little in regular season 2019 due to coming off injury. 2019 playoff Kawhi defense I feel was superior to 1980s Kareem defense. Kareem was never a great athlete but as he aged he became an average athlete, I've always thought his defense in 1980s looked overrated and he just coasted a lot.
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Re: How many have a logical case for GOAT? 

Post#95 » by freethedevil » Sun Sep 8, 2019 5:38 pm

G35 wrote:
70sFan wrote:
picko wrote:Only four: MJ, LeBron, KAJ and Russell.

Can't include Wilt because consensus view from that era is that Russell was better.


I consider Russell better overall than Wilt, but there is no consensus in that aspect.



The only way you can consider Bill equal/greater to Wilt is if you are giving more weight to leadership, winning, intangibles.

Which I'm all for......

Or if you literally just look at how much they made their teams better respectively...
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Re: How many have a logical case for GOAT? 

Post#96 » by Samurai » Sun Sep 8, 2019 5:50 pm

HBK_Kliq_33 wrote:
70sFan wrote:
HBK_Kliq_33 wrote:NBA merger only: Jordan Duncan LeBron Shaq Kawhi are all my goat worthy five. Kawhi is more of a projection obviously but he's on pace for that. All 5 players at their peaks are physically dominant, elite offense, elite defense, elite leadership. Best players I've seen since the NBA merger.

Taking Kawhi over Kareem (even post merger only) is the clearest example of blind bias.

Kareem had at least 3 better seasons than Kawhi's best post merger. Kareem had better post-merger career than Kawhi has. Kareem was just better than Kawhi, how can you even question that?


Kareems scoring volume started declining in the late 1970s and he didn't even finish off his championship run in 1980. Kawhi's 2019 playoff run is superior over kareem's 1980 playoff run because he finished the run healthy and carried a bigger load. Kawhi had a higher peak than post merger Kareem is all im saying.

Per 100 possessions, Kareem's scoring remained over 30 ppg until 86, his age 38 season. We don't know if Kawhi will still average over 30 ppg per 100 in his age 38 season. If we are talking about the Finals, Kareem's numbers for the 80 Finals were:
33.4 pts/13.6 reb/3.2 assists/4.6 blocks/0.6 steals. Kawhi in 2019:
28.5 pts/9.8 reb/4.2 assists/1.2 blocks/2.0 steals.
If we are looking at their overall playoff numbers, 80 Kareem averaged:
31.9 pts/12.1 reb/3.1 assists/3.9 blocks/1.9 steals. 19 Kawhi averaged:
30.5 pts/9.1 reb/3.9 assists/0.7 blocks/1.7 steals.

Like you, I also watched both the 80 Finals and 19 Finals; both Kareem and Kawhi were outstanding. Kawhi was voted FMVP as was Kareem - initially at least. But unless you are just focused on the assists numbers, I don't see the evidence that Kawhi's 19 playoff run was superior to Kareem in 80.
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Re: How many have a logical case for GOAT? 

Post#97 » by 70sFan » Sun Sep 8, 2019 6:16 pm

HBK_Kliq_33 wrote:
70sFan wrote:
HBK_Kliq_33 wrote:
Kareems scoring volume started declining in the late 1970s and he didn't even finish off his championship run in 1980. Kawhi's 2019 playoff run is superior over kareem's 1980 playoff run because he finished the run healthy and carried a bigger load. Kawhi had a higher peak than post merger Kareem is all im saying.


Kareem scored 35 ppg on 65% TS in 1977. He also averaged 32 ppg on 61% TS in 1980. All in less efficient league and with worse team in 1977 than Kawhi in 2019.

He missed one game and he would have played in game 7 if necessary. He played better than Kawhi in the finals.

In short - Kareem was better scorer than Kawhi (by any measure), he was also better defender and even in terms of passing he was better and more impactful. What is the case for Kawhi here? Other than having better team than Kareem in 1977 or Jabbar missing one game in 1980? Kareem was better in RS and in playoffs both years than any Kawhi year.


Kareem never had the carry job that Kawhi did, he was playing with another superstar in Magic. Kawhi has played with Aldridge and Lowry. Huge huge gap there. 1980s Kareem was spoiled like 2017-2019 Durant, he played with a player arguably better than him.

Kawhi 2017 = Kareem 1980

Both couldn't close for their teams.

Kawhi 2019 > Kareem 1982

You are underrating 2017 and 2019 Leonard defense. He was still great defensively but just coasted a little in regular season 2019 due to coming off injury. 2019 playoff Kawhi defense I feel was superior to 1980s Kareem defense. Kareem was never a great athlete but as he aged he became an average athlete, I've always thought his defense in 1980s looked overrated and he just coasted a lot.

Wow, there is so much wrong in this post that I don't know where to start.

Firstly, Kareem played 3 seasons post merger without Magic. You know that merger happened in 1976, not in 1979 right? He had far worse team in 1977 than Kawhi ever had at any point of his career and he averaged 35 ppg on 65% TS in playoffs, beating very good Warriors team and losing to future champions. This is a carryjob, his guards couldn't even bring the ball to halfcourt at some points. Kawhi's Raptors look like superteam compared to 1977 Lakers.

Secondly, if you want to compare their title runs, then Magic in 1980 wasn't a superstar. He was very talented rookie who didn't realize yet how to maximize his impact. Johnson from 1980 wasn't close to prime Magic, he wasn't elite playmaker yet and he couldn't shoot (his improvement in 1982 is huge in that aspect). He was very good player who played outstanding game 6, but that doesn't make him superstar.

Also, I don't understand why you compare 1982 Kareem to peak Leonard. He was 34 years old at that point, I hope that Leonard is better than 34-35 years old 7'2 center.

2019 Kawhi < 1979 Kareem = 1980 Kareem < 1977 Kareem

Lastly, calling Kareem "never a great athlete" makes me sure that you never saw 1970s Kareem, even on highlights. Dude was 7'2 freak who moved like a SF. He was very quick, had elite coordination and spring legs. I've never seen as nimble 7'2 player as Kareem, he was more agile than most 6'10 centers. Remeber, the merger happened in 1976, Kareem was still in his physical prime in 1977. He was far better athlete than Kawhi at any point of his career. He was also far better defender than Kawhi at any point of his career. I don't doubt Kawhi's defensive ability, he's damn good defender especially when he tried. Kareem was one of the best rim protectors ever in his prime though and he was quick enough to bother perimeter players on switches. Very few players had such an impact on opponents, he could really shut down the paint. That's the impact Kawhi can't touch even at his best. I'd probably take all Kareem seasons until 1984 defensively over Kawhi's best defensive season and that's definitely not 2019. Yeah, when Kareem was over 36 he wasn't great athlete anymore and he coasted defensively but that doesn't make his 1977-80 years any worse.

Kareem during Showtime era (1982-89) was definitely worse than peak Kawhi but you forget that he played a lot more seasons after the merger than that. Kawhi can't touch late 70s Jabbar.
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Re: How many have a logical case for GOAT? 

Post#98 » by AMW27 » Sun Sep 8, 2019 7:11 pm

70sFan wrote:
AMW27 wrote:
penbeast0 wrote:
Why Duncan over Kareem?
Duncan was the best player on his first four championship teams. You can even make a case he probably was the best player on the fifth one, even though he was past his prime. Consider what stage his teammates were at in their careers at the time also.

Kareem has an impressive resume. 6 titles. But in my opinion he was not the best player on most of those title teams.

I'm not knocking him because he was fortunate that Magic came on board. Not knocking him because he was fortunate to play on deep teams in the 1980s. But it is what is. He wasn't the best player on most of his teams to me.

Im my opinion Kareem should've already had more than one title on his resume before Magic came. If he had more than one title prior to Magic's arrival and had the exact same career he had with Magic, then I agree that he'd be a top 3 player of all time right now like most have him.

I know a lot of People will disagree with this but this is a good debate.

When exactly should Kareem have won another title before 1980 and what should he have done to actually accomplish that?
kareem realistically could've wom with those 1978 and 179 teams.. Also the early 1970s.

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Re: How many have a logical case for GOAT? 

Post#99 » by 70sFan » Sun Sep 8, 2019 8:33 pm

AMW27 wrote:
70sFan wrote:
AMW27 wrote:Duncan was the best player on his first four championship teams. You can even make a case he probably was the best player on the fifth one, even though he was past his prime. Consider what stage his teammates were at in their careers at the time also.

Kareem has an impressive resume. 6 titles. But in my opinion he was not the best player on most of those title teams.

I'm not knocking him because he was fortunate that Magic came on board. Not knocking him because he was fortunate to play on deep teams in the 1980s. But it is what is. He wasn't the best player on most of his teams to me.

Im my opinion Kareem should've already had more than one title on his resume before Magic came. If he had more than one title prior to Magic's arrival and had the exact same career he had with Magic, then I agree that he'd be a top 3 player of all time right now like most have him.

I know a lot of People will disagree with this but this is a good debate.

When exactly should Kareem have won another title before 1980 and what should he have done to actually accomplish that?
kareem realistically could've wom with those 1978 and 179 teams.. Also the early 1970s.

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I agree that he underperformed a bit in 1978 playoffs but 1979? He averaged 29-12-5 on 62% TS against the best defense in the league. The reason why Lakers lost is offensive rebounding - Lakers forwards got destroyed in that aspect (almost 7 offensive rebounds per game for Shelton and Silas) along with rebounding domination of Gus and Dennis. That's not Kareem's fault - he had over 10 defensive rebounds per game in that series and Sikma didn't do anything relevant on offensive glass. In next year Lakers did far better job on the glass and they reversed the result with Kareem playing around the same.

I also disagree with early 70s - in 1970 he played against much better Knicks team and he averaged 34 ppg against them. In 1972 he lost Oscar in the WCF and he still made Bucks competitive averaging 34-18-5 and almost his efficiency wasn't the best, he faced one of the best teams of all-time with Wilt Chamberlain and without his main playmaker. In 1974 he led his team to 7 games loss against the Celtics while averaging 33-12-5 against Dave Cowens and winning game 6 by himself.

The only two times when Kareem underperformed in the playoffs in his prime were 1973 (against GOAT post defender Nate the Great) and in 1978 (in three games series). That's not more than any other GOAT candidate, even Duncan (my favorite player of all-times) has quite a few underperformings.
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Re: How many have a logical case for GOAT? 

Post#100 » by AMW27 » Sun Sep 8, 2019 9:21 pm

70sFan wrote:
AMW27 wrote:
70sFan wrote:When exactly should Kareem have won another title before 1980 and what should he have done to actually accomplish that?
kareem realistically could've wom with those 1978 and 179 teams.. Also the early 1970s.

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I agree that he underperformed a bit in 1978 playoffs but 1979? He averaged 29-12-5 on 62% TS against the best defense in the league. The reason why Lakers lost is offensive rebounding - Lakers forwards got destroyed in that aspect (almost 7 offensive rebounds per game for Shelton and Silas) along with rebounding domination of Gus and Dennis. That's not Kareem's fault - he had over 10 defensive rebounds per game in that series and Sikma didn't do anything relevant on offensive glass. In next year Lakers did far better job on the glass and they reversed the result with Kareem playing around the same.

I also disagree with early 70s - in 1970 he played against much better Knicks team and he averaged 34 ppg against them. In 1972 he lost Oscar in the WCF and he still made Bucks competitive averaging 34-18-5 and almost his efficiency wasn't the best, he faced one of the best teams of all-time with Wilt Chamberlain and without his main playmaker. In 1974 he led his team to 7 games loss against the Celtics while averaging 33-12-5 against Dave Cowens and winning game 6 by himself.

The only two times when Kareem underperformed in the playoffs in his prime were 1973 (against GOAT post defender Nate the Great) and in 1978 (in three games series). That's not more than any other GOAT candidate, even Duncan (my favorite player of all-times) has quite a few underperformings.
Those late 1970 teams(78, 79) he shouldve had the top seed with those teams. He was capable of winning with those teams.

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