Who do you rank higher all time: Scottie Pippen or Chris Paul?

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Higher on your goat list?

Pippen
28
48%
Cp3
30
52%
 
Total votes: 58

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Re: Who do you rank higher all time: Scottie Pippen or Chris Paul? 

Post#21 » by Lost92Bricks » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:58 am

HBK_Kliq_33 wrote:Is Chris Paul really all that as a defender? He's a great steals guy but all his clippers teams were always average on defense or worse than average. We are talking about Scottie Pippen here who covers all areas of the court with his help defense on the same level impact as a big man anchor and still the athleticism of a guard. I think the gap is HUGE on defense because Pippen is just so much more disruptive with his length and athleticism. Bulls were 2nd ranked defense in the NBA in 1994-1995 and Jordan only played 17 games, Kukoc played 55 games, Horace Grant wasn't even on the team. So Pippen anchored a #2 defense with BJ Armstrong as his main 2nd player? Steve Kerr played the 5th most MPG on that team. Chris Paul is not able to anchor defensive teams like Pippen is, not even close. Paul is a nice feisty guard who can put pressure on you but he's not disruptive on the help like Pippen no way.

You sound like you didn't even watch him play in his prime. He was one of the best defenders in the league, just not as good as Scottie.

And a number of his teams have been top 10 defensively (2008, 2009, 2011 Hornets, 2013, 2014, 2016 Clippers, 2018 Rockets). And this despite those teams (excluding Houston) not having any defensive stoppers aside from him.
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Re: Who do you rank higher all time: Scottie Pippen or Chris Paul? 

Post#22 » by HBK_Kliq_33 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:07 am

Lost92Bricks wrote:
HBK_Kliq_33 wrote:Is Chris Paul really all that as a defender? He's a great steals guy but all his clippers teams were always average on defense or worse than average. We are talking about Scottie Pippen here who covers all areas of the court with his help defense on the same level impact as a big man anchor and still the athleticism of a guard. I think the gap is HUGE on defense because Pippen is just so much more disruptive with his length and athleticism. Bulls were 2nd ranked defense in the NBA in 1994-1995 and Jordan only played 17 games, Kukoc played 55 games, Horace Grant wasn't even on the team. So Pippen anchored a #2 defense with BJ Armstrong as his main 2nd player? Steve Kerr played the 5th most MPG on that team. Chris Paul is not able to anchor defensive teams like Pippen is, not even close. Paul is a nice feisty guard who can put pressure on you but he's not disruptive on the help like Pippen no way.

You sound like you didn't even watch him play in his prime. He was one of the best defenders in the league, just not as good as Scottie.

And a number of his teams have been top 10 defensively (2008, 2009, 2011 Hornets, 2013, 2014, 2016 Clippers, 2018 Rockets). And this despite those teams (excluding Houston) not having any defensive stoppers aside from him.


Paul never could anchor elite defensive teams like Scottie could but Scottie could anchor elite offensive teams with his playmaking\ball handling. Overall, Scottie wins.

Stop acting like Rasheed and Steve Smith are some lights out offensive weapons, like they are Curry and Durant or something? Give me a break. Rasheed\Smith are worse offensively than Blake\Reddick or West\Peja and Pippen still ran a top 3 offense in a more difficult defensive era than Paul ever played in.
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Re: Who do you rank higher all time: Scottie Pippen or Chris Paul? 

Post#23 » by HBK_Kliq_33 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:13 am

HeartBreakKid wrote:Also, this thread is kind of a joke...yeah I get the health thing - but CP3 is not any less healthy than Wade or Curry. Big difference is that Curry's team has always won even when the guy doesn't play in the series, the polar opposite happens with CP3.

CP3 was a superstar, if you think it is impossible to be a superstar because they "never got out the 2nd round" then you really don't know basketball. Literally every bad thing you could say about CP3's ability on court is amplified for Scottie Pippen. Scottie actually was a choker, actually did under-perform, actually did get carried by a better player, actually couldn't take over when people needed him - most of those things are just hearsay for CP3, with Pippen that's more or less the truth.

If you want to say CP3 is an **** off court, you could say the same thing with Pippen who was a prick and a prima donna - only difference is Pippen has rings so he's a winner and CP3 is a loser.

And crediting Scottie Pippen for the Blazers is some next level stuff...he was like the 4th best player on that team.


Jordan's TS in the playoffs dropped about the same as Pippen's did in the 2nd 3peat. Pippen also had a better BPM and VORP than Jordan in 1996 and 1998.

In 2000 playoffs, Pippen made a last second game winner to eliminate Stockton\Malone the same two guys Jordan gets worshiped for eliminating 2 years prior. So much for Pippen disappearing.



Paul disappears by crying like a baby than sitting out games in 2015 or crying like a baby while sitting on the bench in a game 6 elimination game 2018 or he disappears when his team is getting steam rolled by Rockets Josh Smith LOL. So before you say a guy with 6 rings disappears, maybe try having the crybaby make the finals first.
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Re: Who do you rank higher all time: Scottie Pippen or Chris Paul? 

Post#24 » by Lost92Bricks » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:17 am

HBK_Kliq_33 wrote:They went to the finals but got swept vs winning 3 games in the finals and being up 15 in the 4th quarter. You obviously didn't watch the 2000 playoffs and just remember 1 highlight clip.

Harden got to the western finals and won a game with an out of prime Dwight Howard a few years prior. Chris Paul won 2 more game than Dwight did.

So Pippen helped by 3 games and Paul helped by just 2 game when it came down to the playoffs.

Had them at a 70 win pace when he played his standard 58 game houston season? That's cute, Pippen played 82 games! Another knock on Paul, not only did he get hurt in the regular season more than Pippen but also was hurt in the playoffs more than Pippen.

Do I even need to explain what's wrong with this?

You're comparing the 2015 Rockets to the 2018 Rockets, a completely different roster outside than Harden, with a different coach. THREE YEARS APART? Really? Like that's supposed to mean ****? And then you're comparing the 2015 Warriors to the 2018 Warriors with Durant?

HBK_Kliq_33 wrote:Paul never could anchor elite defensive teams like Scottie could but Scottie could anchor elite offensive teams with his playmaking\ball handling. Overall, Scottie wins.

Stop acting like Rasheed and Steve Smith are some lights out offensive weapons, like they are Curry and Durant or something? Give me a break. Rasheed\Smith are worse offensively than Blake\Reddick or West\Peja and Pippen still ran a top 3 offense in a more difficult defensive era than Paul ever played in.

Comparing Scottie at 35 years old, averaging 12.5 PPG, as the 4th best player on his team, added to a team that already went to the WCF the season before he got there, to what Chris was doing is idiotic.

Scottie wasn't anchoring ****. You don't know what anchoring is.
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Re: Who do you rank higher all time: Scottie Pippen or Chris Paul? 

Post#25 » by HBK_Kliq_33 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:35 am

Lost92Bricks wrote:
HBK_Kliq_33 wrote:They went to the finals but got swept vs winning 3 games in the finals and being up 15 in the 4th quarter. You obviously didn't watch the 2000 playoffs and just remember 1 highlight clip.

Harden got to the western finals and won a game with an out of prime Dwight Howard a few years prior. Chris Paul won 2 more game than Dwight did.

So Pippen helped by 3 games and Paul helped by just 2 game when it came down to the playoffs.

Had them at a 70 win pace when he played his standard 58 game houston season? That's cute, Pippen played 82 games! Another knock on Paul, not only did he get hurt in the regular season more than Pippen but also was hurt in the playoffs more than Pippen.

Do I even need to explain what's wrong with this?

You're comparing the 2015 Rockets to the 2018 Rockets, a completely different roster outside than Harden, with a different coach. THREE YEARS APART? Really? Like that's supposed to mean ****? And then you're comparing the 2015 Warriors to the 2018 Warriors with Durant?

HBK_Kliq_33 wrote:Paul never could anchor elite defensive teams like Scottie could but Scottie could anchor elite offensive teams with his playmaking\ball handling. Overall, Scottie wins.

Stop acting like Rasheed and Steve Smith are some lights out offensive weapons, like they are Curry and Durant or something? Give me a break. Rasheed\Smith are worse offensively than Blake\Reddick or West\Peja and Pippen still ran a top 3 offense in a more difficult defensive era than Paul ever played in.

Comparing Scottie at 35 years old, averaging 12.5 PPG, as the 4th best player on his team, added to a team that already went to the WCF the season before he got there, to what Chris was doing is idiotic.

Scottie wasn't anchoring ****. You don't know what anchoring is.


You added Dwight to Harden with role players and won 1 west finals games
You added Chris Paul to Harden with role players and won 3 west finals games

Add any star to prime Harden and you're getting to the west finals most years. The superstar who is getting the most defensive attention is Harden and Paul still couldn't get the job done because he got injured. Pippen was the best player in the playoffs, stayed healthy and Rasheed couldn't close. Big differences and again they don't favor Paul.

Pippen plays with Rasheed Wallace who is not even in Harden's league and wins just as much west finals games.

Blazers in 1999: 0 west finals
Rockets in 2017: 0 west finals wins

Blazers won a few extra 2nd round games because they were not playing against Kawhi Leonard like Rockets were? I don't see the difference here.

Pippen was anchoring the Blazers defense as Rasheed was never really an anchor, Pippen was doing the ball handling\playmaking as Damon was never good at that. Pippen was the most important on the team by far, he would direct traffic and tell everybody what to do. Pippen even knew the triangle offense and disrupted it to push WCF to 7, go ask phil jackson.
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Re: Who do you rank higher all time: Scottie Pippen or Chris Paul? 

Post#26 » by Amares » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:07 am

Paul is higher, he was clearly better player at peak, first option (not second like Pipp) and he's ~top10 offensive player of all-time + one of the greatest defenders ever at PG. And statistically it's not even close.
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Re: Who do you rank higher all time: Scottie Pippen or Chris Paul? 

Post#27 » by Dr Spaceman » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:09 am

HBK_Kliq_33 wrote:
Lost92Bricks wrote:
No-more-rings wrote:It’s not by much? That would be like saying the gap between Mike Conley and Ron Artest’s defense, “wasn’t much”.

Mike Conley didn't have the same amount of All-Defensive teams as Scottie. He never even made a single team. Terrible comparison.


Is Chris Paul really all that as a defender? He's a great steals guy but all his clippers teams were always average on defense or worse than average. We are talking about Scottie Pippen here who covers all areas of the court with his help defense on the same level impact as a big man anchor and still the athleticism of a guard. I think the gap is HUGE on defense because Pippen is just so much more disruptive with his length and athleticism. Bulls were 2nd ranked defense in the NBA in 1994-1995 and Jordan only played 17 games, Kukoc played 55 games, Horace Grant wasn't even on the team. So Pippen anchored a #2 defense with BJ Armstrong as his main 2nd player? Steve Kerr played the 5th most MPG on that team. Chris Paul is not able to anchor defensive teams like Pippen is, not even close. Paul is a nice feisty guard who can put pressure on you but he's not disruptive on the help like Pippen no way.


Kidd and Payton are the only 1s who have any argument over Paul defensively IMO.

Younger Paul wasn’t all that on defense but as he aged and especially when he moved into a secondary role on offense he became scary good. He was arguably the most important player on the last two years Rockets defense.

Even back in 2014 he was doing things like holding Durant scoreless at the end of playoff games.
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Re: Who do you rank higher all time: Scottie Pippen or Chris Paul? 

Post#28 » by 70sFan » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:08 am

Dr Spaceman wrote:
HBK_Kliq_33 wrote:
Lost92Bricks wrote:Mike Conley didn't have the same amount of All-Defensive teams as Scottie. He never even made a single team. Terrible comparison.


Is Chris Paul really all that as a defender? He's a great steals guy but all his clippers teams were always average on defense or worse than average. We are talking about Scottie Pippen here who covers all areas of the court with his help defense on the same level impact as a big man anchor and still the athleticism of a guard. I think the gap is HUGE on defense because Pippen is just so much more disruptive with his length and athleticism. Bulls were 2nd ranked defense in the NBA in 1994-1995 and Jordan only played 17 games, Kukoc played 55 games, Horace Grant wasn't even on the team. So Pippen anchored a #2 defense with BJ Armstrong as his main 2nd player? Steve Kerr played the 5th most MPG on that team. Chris Paul is not able to anchor defensive teams like Pippen is, not even close. Paul is a nice feisty guard who can put pressure on you but he's not disruptive on the help like Pippen no way.


Kidd and Payton are the only 1s who have any argument over Paul defensively IMO.

Younger Paul wasn’t all that on defense but as he aged and especially when he moved into a secondary role on defense he became scary good. He was arguably the most important player on the last two years Rockets defense.

Even back in 2014 he was doing things like holding Durant scoreless at the end of playoff games.


We don't have enough footage, but from what we have KC Jones looks damn close to Paul.

Also, I'd take motivated Frazier over him defensively but his effort on D could be inconsistent.
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Re: Who do you rank higher all time: Scottie Pippen or Chris Paul? 

Post#29 » by Dr Spaceman » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:41 am

70sFan wrote:
Dr Spaceman wrote:
HBK_Kliq_33 wrote:
Is Chris Paul really all that as a defender? He's a great steals guy but all his clippers teams were always average on defense or worse than average. We are talking about Scottie Pippen here who covers all areas of the court with his help defense on the same level impact as a big man anchor and still the athleticism of a guard. I think the gap is HUGE on defense because Pippen is just so much more disruptive with his length and athleticism. Bulls were 2nd ranked defense in the NBA in 1994-1995 and Jordan only played 17 games, Kukoc played 55 games, Horace Grant wasn't even on the team. So Pippen anchored a #2 defense with BJ Armstrong as his main 2nd player? Steve Kerr played the 5th most MPG on that team. Chris Paul is not able to anchor defensive teams like Pippen is, not even close. Paul is a nice feisty guard who can put pressure on you but he's not disruptive on the help like Pippen no way.


Kidd and Payton are the only 1s who have any argument over Paul defensively IMO.

Younger Paul wasn’t all that on defense but as he aged and especially when he moved into a secondary role on defense he became scary good. He was arguably the most important player on the last two years Rockets defense.

Even back in 2014 he was doing things like holding Durant scoreless at the end of playoff games.


We don't have enough footage, but from what we have KC Jones looks damn close to Paul.

Also, I'd take motivated Frazier over him defensively but his effort on D could be inconsistent.


Haven’t seen enough personally (offense is a little easier to evaluate with limited footage) but I did have those two in mind as well.
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Re: Who do you rank higher all time: Scottie Pippen or Chris Paul? 

Post#30 » by No-more-rings » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:27 am

HeartBreakKid wrote:
No-more-rings wrote:
DatAsh wrote:Paul is close to Jordan on offense

This is getting a little carried away.

udfa wrote:Both are all-time great defenders at their position; even if Pippen is a more valuable defender it's not by much.

It’s not by much? That would be like saying the gap between Mike Conley and Ron Artest’s defense, “wasn’t much”.


The gap between Conley and CP3 on defense is much more noticeable than Pippen vs Artest.

It doesn’t matter if the gap is the same or not, you guys should get the analogy nonetheless.

Even if you think Cp3 is goat tier defender at his position(kind of ridiculous if you actually look into history), there’s quite a difference between the impact that a small point guard is having vs a 6’8 forward who has a better case at his position than Paul does.

It’s funny to see positional defensive value thrown out the window for people’s favorite players.
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Re: Who do you rank higher all time: Scottie Pippen or Chris Paul? 

Post#31 » by No-more-rings » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:32 am

udfa wrote:
No-more-rings wrote:
udfa wrote:Both are all-time great defenders at their position; even if Pippen is a more valuable defender it's not by much.

It’s not by much? That would be like saying the gap between Mike Conley and Ron Artest’s defense, “wasn’t much”.


It's not that Pippen isn't a much better defender than CP3, it's that no matter what you're starting a PG and usually you're lucky if they're a net neutral on defense (even if they're a star) but if you play prime Chris Paul -- the best defensive PG during his entire prime -- then have a PG who's giving you a huge differential in defensive effectiveness vs his counterpart. At SF, the majority of starters are plus defenders and there's a bunch of SFs who are huge impact players on defense.

This makes no sense.

Small forwards simply have a larger global impact on defense than point guards do, especially when one is 6’8 vs 6’0.

What you’re basically arguing is Cp3 is more of an outlier thus he’s as impactful as Pippen on defense which is complete and utter garbage.
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Re: Who do you rank higher all time: Scottie Pippen or Chris Paul? 

Post#32 » by udfa » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:34 am

HBK_Kliq_33 wrote:
udfa wrote:
HBK_Kliq_33 wrote:
Pippen only lost 2 less games when Jordan was replaced by rookie Kukoc. Than in 2000, pippen ran a top 3 offense and took them further than Paul in 2018 or any other Paul year of his career. Pippen was great in his own right at anchoring elite offensive teams by his playmaking and iq. Pippen also anchored 7 or 8 elite defensive teams. Chris Paul on the other hand is not great at anchoring a defense and gets injured in the biggest games. Its clearly Pippen here overall career, only argument for Paul is peak. 2008 Paul had a better supporting cast than 1994 Pippen and lost in the same round to a worse team, I don't see the case for even peak Chris Paul in playoffs.


First let's talk about Portland. Pippen was very valuable for them but by that point he was basically a rich man's GS Iggy. Pretending that Pippen "took them further than Paul" or even took them anywhere makes no sense to me. The season before they won 35 games in the 50 game lockout season, equivalent to winning 57 games in an 82 game season, and lost in the West Finals. Portland then won 59 games the season they added Pippen and again lost in the West Finals (though much closer of course). Portland already had Sheed, Damon, Sabonis, Brian Grant and Detlef Schremphf and in addition to Pippen also added Steve Smith, who along with Sheed led what was very much an ensemble team. Pippen was a high quality supporting player on a great team.

08 CP3 did not have a better supporting cast than 94 Pippen. Horace Grant was by far the best other player on either team and was a very close 1b to Pippen. CP3 made West an all-star but he was inferior on both ends to Grant. Armstrong and Kukoc were as good or better than any of the non all-stars on NO.

Replace CP3 on all of his teams with Pippen at the same age and all of them would be worse, and in many cases much worse.


I never said Pippen was Portland's best scorer but he was the best playmaker and best overall player. Pippen ran the entire offense in 2000 and he had a poor 1st option scorer in Rasheed who is inferior to Harden or even Blake as an offensive player, than he had Steve Smith who was same level as JJ Reddick, with washed up sabonis, washed up grant, washed up detlef, and the never was Damon Stoudamire. They were getting there asses handed to them by Shaq for years until Pippen joined them and had Shaq down 15 points 4th quarter game 7. When was Chris Paul ever that close to the finals? He was too busy on the bench in Houston. Pippen in the 2000 playoffs led blazers in minutes, assists, rebounds, steals, VORP, DBPM, BPM. Go show me how many players led a team in all those categories for a deep playoff run and was just a "supporting player" and than you willl realize how wrong you are. 2000 Pippen with 2018 Chris Paul. Pippen was actually there for game 7 and Paul was not, so pippen was more valuable there.

1994 vs 2008

Horace Grant was overrated and probably equal David West overall. Than the big gap on Peja over rookie Kukoc? Paul loses again there for supporting cast. I still dont see your point. Paul played with 2 players in harden and Blake that were far better than anybody pippen had in 1994 and 2000 and still didn't make it any further.


I never said you said Pippen was Portland's best scorer. I said pretending that Pippen "took them further than Paul" [your words] makes no sense to me. It makes no sense because he joined at the same time as Smith who was at least as good a player and those two guys together were the difference between losing in the West Finals in 4 and losing in 7. Pippen's role on that team was even less than CP3's role in 2018.

Let's talk about your stats, assists, rebounds, steals, VORP, DBPM and BPM and remember that this is not Pippen vs his teammates, it's Pippen vs CP3. At best Pippen was the lead in an ensemble. Harden and CP3 were a duo. Pippen and Steve Smith together brought Portland from being swept to 7. Paul's addition alone brought Houston from a 6 game loss in the West Semis to a 7 game loss in the West Finals. Paul averaged more assists, a better assist-TO ratio, the same number of steals, and only 1.7 RPG less all in 6.4 fewer MPG. Paul also averaged more PPG at substantially higher efficiency. Paul had 0.3 less playoff VORP because he played 7 MPG less and sat out 2 games. Chris Paul was a larger impact player. Their per 100 stats reflect this very well.
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Re: Who do you rank higher all time: Scottie Pippen or Chris Paul? 

Post#33 » by No-more-rings » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:01 am

Dr Spaceman wrote:
Even back in 2014 he was doing things like holding Durant scoreless at the end of playoff games.

God are people still pushing this narrative?

You are talking about the same series where both KD and Westbrook torched the Clippers. Bringing up a few possessions against KD is so cherry picking.
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Re: Who do you rank higher all time: Scottie Pippen or Chris Paul? 

Post#34 » by Lost92Bricks » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:32 pm

No-more-rings wrote:God are people still pushing this narrative?

You are talking about the same series where both KD and Westbrook torched the Clippers. Bringing up a few possessions against KD is so cherry picking.

It's not a narrative. They put him on KD in the entire 4th quarter and he literally locked him up. KD couldn't even get the ball. When he did get it, he couldn't even dribble the ball because Chris ripped him every time. He got like one clean shot off the entire quarter.

Before that move, KD was torching the Clippers through 3 quarters. That just goes to show you how there were no defensive stoppers on his teams, HE was his teams best defender lot of the time. At 6'0.
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Re: Who do you rank higher all time: Scottie Pippen or Chris Paul? 

Post#35 » by HBK_Kliq_33 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:55 pm

udfa wrote:
HBK_Kliq_33 wrote:
udfa wrote:
First let's talk about Portland. Pippen was very valuable for them but by that point he was basically a rich man's GS Iggy. Pretending that Pippen "took them further than Paul" or even took them anywhere makes no sense to me. The season before they won 35 games in the 50 game lockout season, equivalent to winning 57 games in an 82 game season, and lost in the West Finals. Portland then won 59 games the season they added Pippen and again lost in the West Finals (though much closer of course). Portland already had Sheed, Damon, Sabonis, Brian Grant and Detlef Schremphf and in addition to Pippen also added Steve Smith, who along with Sheed led what was very much an ensemble team. Pippen was a high quality supporting player on a great team.

08 CP3 did not have a better supporting cast than 94 Pippen. Horace Grant was by far the best other player on either team and was a very close 1b to Pippen. CP3 made West an all-star but he was inferior on both ends to Grant. Armstrong and Kukoc were as good or better than any of the non all-stars on NO.

Replace CP3 on all of his teams with Pippen at the same age and all of them would be worse, and in many cases much worse.


I never said Pippen was Portland's best scorer but he was the best playmaker and best overall player. Pippen ran the entire offense in 2000 and he had a poor 1st option scorer in Rasheed who is inferior to Harden or even Blake as an offensive player, than he had Steve Smith who was same level as JJ Reddick, with washed up sabonis, washed up grant, washed up detlef, and the never was Damon Stoudamire. They were getting there asses handed to them by Shaq for years until Pippen joined them and had Shaq down 15 points 4th quarter game 7. When was Chris Paul ever that close to the finals? He was too busy on the bench in Houston. Pippen in the 2000 playoffs led blazers in minutes, assists, rebounds, steals, VORP, DBPM, BPM. Go show me how many players led a team in all those categories for a deep playoff run and was just a "supporting player" and than you willl realize how wrong you are. 2000 Pippen with 2018 Chris Paul. Pippen was actually there for game 7 and Paul was not, so pippen was more valuable there.

1994 vs 2008

Horace Grant was overrated and probably equal David West overall. Than the big gap on Peja over rookie Kukoc? Paul loses again there for supporting cast. I still dont see your point. Paul played with 2 players in harden and Blake that were far better than anybody pippen had in 1994 and 2000 and still didn't make it any further.


I never said you said Pippen was Portland's best scorer. I said pretending that Pippen "took them further than Paul" [your words] makes no sense to me. It makes no sense because he joined at the same time as Smith who was at least as good a player and those two guys together were the difference between losing in the West Finals in 4 and losing in 7. Pippen's role on that team was even less than CP3's role in 2018.

Let's talk about your stats, assists, rebounds, steals, VORP, DBPM and BPM and remember that this is not Pippen vs his teammates, it's Pippen vs CP3. At best Pippen was the lead in an ensemble. Harden and CP3 were a duo. Pippen and Steve Smith together brought Portland from being swept. Paul's addition alone brought Houston from a 6 game loss in the West Semis to a 7 game loss in the West Finals. Paul averaged more assists, a better assist-TO ratio, the same number of steals, and only 1.7 RPG less all in 6.4 fewer MPG. Paul also averaged more PPG at substantially higher efficiency. Paul had 0.3 less playoff VORP because he played 7 MPG less and sat out 2 games. Chris Paul was a larger impact player. Their per 100 stats reflect this very well.


Steve Smith is no better than Eric Gordon. I actually think Gordon is the better overall player. Pippen played 24 more regular season games and played in the game 7 of the WCF, that plays a huge factor in pippen being better. Pippen also still has the higher playoff BPM and VORP since Paul couldn't stay on the court. Pippen would of won the title with Harden I think, he was inches away from winning it with Rasheed who is a way worse player than Harden.

Pippen anchored blazers offense and defense, he has a stronger case as blazers best player than Chris Paul did. Rasheed didn't draw close to the attention Harden did and isn't nearly the playmaker that Harden is. Sounds like Paul was the one that had more help.
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Re: Who do you rank higher all time: Scottie Pippen or Chris Paul? 

Post#36 » by HBK_Kliq_33 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:32 pm

"Pippen got crossed over by Kobe" was probably the funniest comment I heard in this thread.

Damn you Pippen for actually playing in game 7 and getting crossed over. Chris Paul sitting on the bench and watching in game 7 was just so much more valuable and iconic. What kind of logic is that? Pippen had his team up 15 points in the 4th quarter of game 7, Paul had his team up 3-2 with still a full win yet to even be played. Pippen did his job and Rasheed choked, its that simple. Chris Paul didn't do his job because he didn't play in games 6 and 7.
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Re: Who do you rank higher all time: Scottie Pippen or Chris Paul? 

Post#37 » by DatAsh » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:07 pm

Dr Spaceman wrote:
HBK_Kliq_33 wrote:
Lost92Bricks wrote:Mike Conley didn't have the same amount of All-Defensive teams as Scottie. He never even made a single team. Terrible comparison.


Is Chris Paul really all that as a defender? He's a great steals guy but all his clippers teams were always average on defense or worse than average. We are talking about Scottie Pippen here who covers all areas of the court with his help defense on the same level impact as a big man anchor and still the athleticism of a guard. I think the gap is HUGE on defense because Pippen is just so much more disruptive with his length and athleticism. Bulls were 2nd ranked defense in the NBA in 1994-1995 and Jordan only played 17 games, Kukoc played 55 games, Horace Grant wasn't even on the team. So Pippen anchored a #2 defense with BJ Armstrong as his main 2nd player? Steve Kerr played the 5th most MPG on that team. Chris Paul is not able to anchor defensive teams like Pippen is, not even close. Paul is a nice feisty guard who can put pressure on you but he's not disruptive on the help like Pippen no way.


Kidd and Payton are the only 1s who have any argument over Paul defensively IMO.

Younger Paul wasn’t all that on defense but as he aged and especially when he moved into a secondary role on offense he became scary good. He was arguably the most important player on the last two years Rockets defense.

Even back in 2014 he was doing things like holding Durant scoreless at the end of playoff games.


He's definitely in the same tier as Kidd and Payton for me, with maybe 1 or 2 more.
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Re: Who do you rank higher all time: Scottie Pippen or Chris Paul? 

Post#38 » by No-more-rings » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:08 pm

Lost92Bricks wrote:
No-more-rings wrote:God are people still pushing this narrative?

You are talking about the same series where both KD and Westbrook torched the Clippers. Bringing up a few possessions against KD is so cherry picking.

It's not a narrative. They put him on KD in the entire 4th quarter and he literally locked him up. KD couldn't even get the ball. When he did get it, he couldn't even dribble the ball because Chris ripped him every time. He got like one clean shot off the entire quarter.

Before that move, KD was torching the Clippers through 3 quarters. That just goes to show you how there were no defensive stoppers on his teams, HE was his teams best defender lot of the time. At 6'0.

I don’t remember it being an entire quarter when i watched the series in real time.

Feel free to find the footage though..

Edit: If you’re talking about this, i’m seeing a bunch of double teams and on top of that Paul was honestly fouling the **** out of him

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Re: Who do you rank higher all time: Scottie Pippen or Chris Paul? 

Post#39 » by eminence » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:35 pm

Sheed was for sure the Blazers defensive anchor.
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Re: Who do you rank higher all time: Scottie Pippen or Chris Paul? 

Post#40 » by HBK_Kliq_33 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:08 pm

eminence wrote:Sheed was for sure the Blazers defensive anchor.


Rasheed is a great pick and roll defender and man to man defender but he's no Pippen. He can't roam around the court on defense like Pippen and doesn't have the athleticism and iq of Pippen. Pippen is the total package on defense and was the catalyst for blazers 2000 playoff run, just go look at minutes BPM VORP steals assists rebounds.

1998 Shaq played blazers with Rasheed and averaged 29 PPG 65% FG and that was with his 2nd best scorer Rick Fox! Still swept Rasheed's blazers. Fast forward two years later when Kobe has emerged into an all-star. Adding Pippen still won 3 games vs a much superior team. That should tell how big of a difference Pippen was to Portland.

2000 Shaq was struggling because of Pippen's help defense. Game 7 shaq couldn't do anything and needed Kobe to save him.

As far as this comparison, Pippen has two years that are comparable to Paul's peak playoff years.

1994 and 2000 vs 2008 and 2018

Paul couldnt take his teams any further as the best player.

Than pippen had a 6 ring stretch of two 3peats in 8 years. Paul's body wouldn't hold up for that. So overall, Pippen seems to have the clear edge for career rank.

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