Adrian Mahorn or Dominique Miller?

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Adrian Mahorn or Dominique Miller? 

Post#1 » by Laimbeer » Wed Oct 9, 2019 5:40 pm

If these hybrids that the best attribute of each player, which is better?

Adrian Dantley/Rick Mahorn

Dominique Wilkins/Reggie Miller
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Re: Adrian Mahorn or Dominique Miller? 

Post#2 » by penbeast0 » Wed Oct 9, 2019 7:00 pm

Dantley as a PF with Mahorn's thickness, muscle and nasty attitude would be Charles Barkley with defense, above Moses Malone assuming it translates to the playoffs (where Charles shone).

Nique and Miller's skill sets (and weaknesses) overlap much more though certainly Nique with his incredible athleticism plus an ATG three ball and history of playoff heriocs rather than playoff fizzles would be on everyone's list of the greats too. Closest we've seen is Durant.
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Re: Adrian Mahorn or Dominique Miller? 

Post#3 » by 70sFan » Wed Oct 9, 2019 8:47 pm

So give Dantley much more size and much more defensive/rebounding value? Huge yes and I don't care about the opposing hybrid (which is also great)
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Re: Adrian Mahorn or Dominique Miller? 

Post#4 » by Samurai » Wed Oct 9, 2019 8:49 pm

Tough choice but I would lean towards Adrian Mahorn. Nique/Miller is more potent on offense, but adding Mahorn's rebounding and defense to AD's scoring makes the frontcourt hybrid as a slightly more well-rounded player.
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Re: Adrian Mahorn or Dominique Miller? 

Post#5 » by DavidDunn21 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:40 am

I think this is pretty clearly Dominique Miller. Nothing against Dantley, but you're taking all his questionable tunnel vision and questionable winning pedigree and putting it in a bigger nastier body and adding toughness and defense but not really athleticism.
I think in an average year, that's a 2nd or 3rd Team All-NBA level player.
Dominique Miller is windmilling Larry Bird minus Bird's passing. Seems to be more of a MVP candidate.
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Re: Adrian Mahorn or Dominique Miller? 

Post#6 » by 70sFan » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:50 am

DavidDunn21 wrote:I think this is pretty clearly Dominique Miller. Nothing against Dantley, but you're taking all his questionable tunnel vision and questionable winning pedigree and putting it in a bigger nastier body and adding toughness and defense but not really athleticism.
I think in an average year, that's a 2nd or 3rd Team All-NBA level player.
Dominique Miller is windmilling Larry Bird minus Bird's passing. Seems to be more of a MVP candidate.


You basically give GOAT level post player (who was undersized) legit bigman frame while maintaining his elite first step, shooting and handles. He would be one of the best ball handlers ever at his size.
Dantley also didn't have problems with winning. He was the best Pistons player in 1988 finals (that they barely lost) and 1A/1B with Thomas in 1987 ECF when they almost advanced to the finals. 1989 Pistons had much easier path to the finals and much worse finals opponent than in 1987 and 1988, do you really think that Pistons wouldn't beat 1989 Lakers with Dantley instead of Aguirre?
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Re: Adrian Mahorn or Dominique Miller? 

Post#7 » by Bidofo » Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:09 pm

Mahorn is not nearly good enough on defense to overcome the massive offensive advantage that Dominique Miller has.
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Re: Adrian Mahorn or Dominique Miller? 

Post#8 » by 70sFan » Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:30 pm

Bidofo wrote:Mahorn is not nearly good enough on defense to overcome the massive offensive advantage that Dominique Miller has.

6'10 Dantley would be better offensively than Hakeem, better than Duncan, maybe even better than Shaq. The gap definitely is not massive.
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Re: Adrian Mahorn or Dominique Miller? 

Post#9 » by penbeast0 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:31 pm

70sFan wrote:
Bidofo wrote:Mahorn is not nearly good enough on defense to overcome the massive offensive advantage that Dominique Miller has.

6'10 Dantley would be better offensively than Hakeem, better than Duncan, maybe even better than Shaq. The gap definitely is not massive.


Think of it this way. At 6'5 and slender, Dantley was roughly equal to Barkley offensively though without the monster rebounding ability. Now make him 5 inches taller and built like a wall with one of the nastiest edges in NBA history and you are looking at a Barkley/Rodman hybrid or the equivalent . . .
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Re: Adrian Mahorn or Dominique Miller? 

Post#10 » by Bidofo » Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:59 am

penbeast0 wrote:
70sFan wrote:
Bidofo wrote:Mahorn is not nearly good enough on defense to overcome the massive offensive advantage that Dominique Miller has.

6'10 Dantley would be better offensively than Hakeem, better than Duncan, maybe even better than Shaq. The gap definitely is not massive.


Think of it this way. At 6'5 and slender, Dantley was roughly equal to Barkley offensively though without the monster rebounding ability. Now make him 5 inches taller and built like a wall with one of the nastiest edges in NBA history and you are looking at a Barkley/Rodman hybrid or the equivalent . . .

Essentially, my thinking comes down to the fact that Mahorn is not helping anything for Dantley on offense. If we're adding Mahorn's size to Dantley, then he would reasonably lose quickness, agility, and ball handling abilities as well, so that's something one might need to account for. But even ignoring that, does Mahorn help Dantley's vision? His passing acumen? Without those things, the real Dantley isn't close to Barkley offensively (even without the rebounding), so I don't see how a bigger version is going to be THAT much better (like better than Shaq level).

Meanwhile, Miller is a storied PS performer who scores at an elite clip in the second season, and his impact is actually reflected in his teams' ORTGs, which always perform well. Now we give him top-tier slashing skills and the ability to dunk on anyone? Adrian Mahorn might be better than Hakeem and Duncan on offense (I don't think better than Shaq), but Dominique Miller could be a top 5 offensive player of all time. Which is why I would say Adrian Mahorn would need to give back much more on defense, and I don't think he does (although on second thought, I think it's closer than what I originally thought) .
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Re: Adrian Mahorn or Dominique Miller? 

Post#11 » by 70sFan » Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:38 am

Dantley is not a terrible passer, that's huge misconception. His biggest problem was that he wasn't dynamic playmaker and due to his height he couldn't pass over double teams. 6'10 frame would help him in that aspect.
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Re: Adrian Mahorn or Dominique Miller? 

Post#12 » by penbeast0 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:05 pm

Bidofo wrote:
penbeast0 wrote:
70sFan wrote:6'10 Dantley would be better offensively than Hakeem, better than Duncan, maybe even better than Shaq. The gap definitely is not massive.


Think of it this way. At 6'5 and slender, Dantley was roughly equal to Barkley offensively though without the monster rebounding ability. Now make him 5 inches taller and built like a wall with one of the nastiest edges in NBA history and you are looking at a Barkley/Rodman hybrid or the equivalent . . .

Essentially, my thinking comes down to the fact that Mahorn is not helping anything for Dantley on offense. If we're adding Mahorn's size to Dantley, then he would reasonably lose quickness, agility, and ball handling abilities as well, so that's something one might need to account for. But even ignoring that, does Mahorn help Dantley's vision? His passing acumen? Without those things, the real Dantley isn't close to Barkley offensively (even without the rebounding), so I don't see how a bigger version is going to be THAT much better (like better than Shaq level).

Meanwhile, Miller is a storied PS performer who scores at an elite clip in the second season, and his impact is actually reflected in his teams' ORTGs, which always perform well. Now we give him top-tier slashing skills and the ability to dunk on anyone? Adrian Mahorn might be better than Hakeem and Duncan on offense (I don't think better than Shaq), but Dominique Miller could be a top 5 offensive player of all time. Which is why I would say Adrian Mahorn would need to give back much more on defense, and I don't think he does (although on second thought, I think it's closer than what I originally thought) .



(a) Dantley was a superior scorer to Barkley already (slightly) -- he had the edge in both efficiency and volume over the course of their careers plus he was a superior FT shooter as well. The OP suggests ("best attributes of both players") that Dantley loses NONE of his quickness, agility, and ball handling when getting appreciably bigger and stronger. I saw them both and was not appreciably more impressed by Barkley's passing skills than Dantley's. Dantley had more of a tunnel vision, he didn't pass as often, but when he did, he could hit cutters or find open shooters as well as Barkley and he was less sloppy with the ball. This is backed up by their career assists numbers (Barkley 3.9 to Dantley 3.0) and turnovers (Barkley 3.1 to Dantley 2.9). So yes, Charles was a better passer by a little, it wasn't the strength of either, but it is an edge.

(b) The traditional complaint about Dantley is that he used up a lot of the time clock with the ball fakes and jab steps he used to get his shot off so successfully in amongst the trees but again, watching them both, I see Dantley getting his shot (or pass) off faster than Barkley as a rule. Dantley played pretty much a face up game with the aforementioned shooting quirks; Barkley used to back down players in a way that is today illegal with his massive lower body strength taking more time on the clock in those post-ups than I even saw Dantley use.

(c) Barkley was a massively superior rebounder to Dantley, and even to Mahorn (not nearly as massively in per minute or per possession stats). He should still have a clear rebounding edge over the hybrid but it should be appreciably less than the edge that the Mahorn style defense (especially with Dantley's much greater quickness and body control) should provide. The only thing that gives me pause is the Barkley was a terrific playoff performer but Dantley was a good one; it isn't like comparing Charles to someone like Dominique Wilkins. So, overall, the Dantley/Mahorn hybrid should be a clear level better than Barkley was, probably better than KMalone (even regular Season) and even than Tim Duncan in this fantasy exercise.
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