The 2019-2020 Zion Williamson thread

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Re: The 2019-2020 Zion Williamson thread 

Post#61 » by Dr Positivity » Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:24 pm

There's not much sense in predicting him to be worse than Blake Griffin. The Zion detractor side is to say that if he became a big man scored a lot of points inside but wasn't a floor spacer or defender, it would be hard for him to be a real superstar. With that said any of these three scenarios are possible:

He becomes a great defender despite his size by following Draymond model
He shoots 3s
He is neither a great shooter or defender, but puts up GOAT level offensive stats for a PF like Barkley
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Re: The 2019-2020 Zion Williamson thread 

Post#62 » by Pelly24 » Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:15 pm

bledredwine wrote:I was one of maybe two posters stating that RJ Barrett May be a better player, but I’m starting to think that this was a terrible prediction.

Zion has enormous potential to dominate, but he’s currently raw and as mentioned, a bit out of shape.

My thoughts on RJ we’re that he has playmaking potential to be a McGrady/Harden type, which is a style more utilized than ever in the league. That said, he’s looking even more raw and inexperienced than Zion.

Regardless, I want both players to fulfill their potential. The more star power this league has in small markets, the better.


Man, RJ Barrett has the potential to be a TMac Harden type? When I see him I just see a straight-line driving small forward
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Re: The 2019-2020 Zion Williamson thread 

Post#63 » by Pelly24 » Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:25 pm

limbo wrote:
70sFan wrote:I agree on most things but Zion is definitely not guard-sized. 6'6 without shoes is regular height for small forward. How many true 6'6 guards we have in the league? 5%?


He's on the smaller-end of the forward spectrum.

RJ Barrett
Klay Thompson
Jaylen Brown
Caris LaVert
Kevin 'Red Velvet' Huerter
Dwayne Bacon
Evan Fournier
Andrew Wiggins

Are all projected to start at SG for their teams and they are 6-6 or higher... Then there's Butler, DeRozan, Middleton, Andre Roberson who are natural guards but will play SF because of fit/talent reasons. So it's really more like 12 guys. Some of them barely didn't make the cutoff like Danny Green. We should also take into account that Zion isn't the lengthiest fella out there. His wingspan is closer to Victor Oladipo and Ricky Rubio than it is to LeBron or Aaron Gordon... forget about all the freaks playing Forward positions like Kawhi, Durant, Giannis, Ingram.

Out of all starting Forwads in the leauge, only Eric Gordon and CJ Miles are smaller than Zion. And both of those guys can shoot.


Zion is about average at minimum for a starting small forward. The people I bolded are actually all either the exact same height as Zion or a bit shorter. Jaylen is 6'5.25" without shoes, Huerter and Klay top out at either 6'6" or just a bit below. Caris LeVert is a 6'5.75." By NBA combine measurement standards, if you're at 6'5.5" you're 6'7." By new NBA measuring standards you'd be 6'5." So Zion is over 6'5.5" otherwise they wouldn't list him at 6'6" so he's a legit 6'6" without shoes and about 6'7" and change with shoes. Zion's wingspan is like 6'11" while LeBron's is 7 feet. Zion's standing reach is like 8'9" compared to LeBron's 8'11."

Carmelo Anthony is 6'6.25" without shoes and he's never been thought of as undersized. Zion has very solid if not great size for a small forward. A legit 6'5" to 6'7" is more than enough to get the job done, especially if you're built like a tank with GOAT athleticism.
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Re: The 2019-2020 Zion Williamson thread 

Post#64 » by Pelly24 » Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:29 pm

limbo wrote:Point being Zion's height and length will make it hard for him to be anything other than a perimeter player primarily. I'm absolutely fine with him being a Forward, but he's currently not optimized for an effective perimeter game, that's why i'm skeptical about his impact.

It's still extremely early days to be drawing any conclusions, but the first thing i'd look into is dropping mass. There's no reason the dude should be this bulked up at 6-6. I mean, he carries his weight incredibly well and it helps him absorb contact, but i think trading some off that for speed/quickness is the smarter approach for both short and long term. He'll still be big-boned and regain most of his strength, but the benefits of being quicker will make a far greater impact on his game. It will help him beat defenders off the dribble more consistently, squirm through tighter areas, increase his defensive ability to recover, improve his endurance and put a lesser strain on his body and joints, which is probably the most valuable thing.

Right now, he's too wide to explode by defenders consistently and create off the dribble, which is what he should be doing at 6-6 and with his ability to handle and pass. If the Pelicans don't even trust you with on-ball duties, it's a problem.

Other than that, develop an outside shot and you are good to go. A 260 lbs Zion with an outside shot, and we can start taking about offensive potential. A 280+ lbs Zion with no shot and a subpar game off the dribble... nah, ain't happening.


I just don't see what you mean about not being able to blow by defenders consistently lol. He looks like he's shot out of a cannon when he attacks off the dribble and I've seen him literally go through four defenders packed in the paint in every game so far. He's probably the most explosive player off the dribble at 6'6" and over in the league, and it's not that close, either.
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Re: The 2019-2020 Zion Williamson thread 

Post#65 » by Ballerhogger » Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:31 pm

He looked amazing i was shocked he made that 3 pointer
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Re: The 2019-2020 Zion Williamson thread 

Post#66 » by Ballerhogger » Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:34 pm

He athletic enough to get his own rebound with 2 defenders around the rim . Not too many players can do that
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Re: The 2019-2020 Zion Williamson thread 

Post#67 » by limbo » Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:12 pm

Pelly24 wrote:I just don't see what you mean about not being able to blow by defenders consistently lol. He looks like he's shot out of a cannon when he attacks off the dribble and I've seen him literally go through four defenders packed in the paint in every game so far. He's probably the most explosive player off the dribble at 6'6" and over in the league, and it's not that close, either.


In the preseason, so far i haven't seen him consistently attack a set defense in the halfcourt with the ball in his hands like most offensively elite perimeter players do. He's unstoppable once he generates enough momentum and has space to exploit.

If he's unstoppable at getting to the paint at will, then there's no reason to be playing almost exclusively off ball, which is how Gentry has him playing right now... I understand Lonzo is the better playmaker and floor general (on top of being poor off-ball), so it makes sense he should be having the ball in his hands the most, but Zion SHOULD be initiating some of the offense, maybe not over Jrue but certainly over Ingram who can't pass the ball to save his life. If he won't, + the fact that he's a weak outside shooter, that puts a ceiling on his offensive impact, imo. Not saying he still can't be elite, but not on the level of the best players in the league. He would need to sustain top percentile efficiency... and probably need to generate insane gravity with his off-ball movement + GOAT transition, to the likes we've never seen before in NBA history. He's a unique player, so it's not outside the realm of possibility, but it would be unprecedented for sure. Even guys like Amare/Griffin didn't just feast off being receivers, they had to be the starting points of the offense frequently in their career. People like to compare Zion to Barkley, but Barkley played in the post a lot + the game was way different back then.

People are trying to tell me Zion isn't being used on-ball more because of his handle, but at the same time claiming he's unstoppable at getting to the rim. Is he unstoppable or not? If he's unstoppable, then by definition means he should have a good enough handle to consistently create offense with his penetration. So why is he not doing it? Maybe the coaching staff is just being cautious about throwing all eggs into the Zion basket from the jump, and want to simplify the game as much as possible for him, but i swear if i see Ingram having the ball in his hands more than Zion i'm gonna cry.
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Re: The 2019-2020 Zion Williamson thread 

Post#68 » by reignfire » Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:12 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
limbo wrote:Was impressed by how he attacked Gobert and Ed Davis today. Dude just goes through people, goes to the body, bounces you away and still has enough strength to finish. It's one thing to do this in college, another to do it vs arguably the best interior defense in the World.


The most impressive play by him all preseason was his first shot against Gobert. He got the dump off pass inside the paint from Ingram, with no momentum, takes one step and challenges Gobert and scores.
(0:30 second mark)


That is basically worst case scenario for him. Going up against the best defender in the game with just one step to explode. Didn't effect him. If he can do that against Gobert, he can do that against anyone.


I disagree here. Gobert may have the best analytics or whatever. But a motivated Embiid is the best rim protector in the game. He has the best combination of size(meaning strength and weight), length, and agility to defend the paint. Also attitude.

Gobert is great if guys are trying to go around and over him and not through him.
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Re: The 2019-2020 Zion Williamson thread 

Post#69 » by SeattleJazzFan » Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:14 pm

reignfire wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
limbo wrote:Was impressed by how he attacked Gobert and Ed Davis today. Dude just goes through people, goes to the body, bounces you away and still has enough strength to finish. It's one thing to do this in college, another to do it vs arguably the best interior defense in the World.


The most impressive play by him all preseason was his first shot against Gobert. He got the dump off pass inside the paint from Ingram, with no momentum, takes one step and challenges Gobert and scores.
(0:30 second mark)


That is basically worst case scenario for him. Going up against the best defender in the game with just one step to explode. Didn't effect him. If he can do that against Gobert, he can do that against anyone.


I disagree here. Gobert may have the best analytics or whatever. But a motivated Embiid is the best rim protector in the game. He has the best combination of size(meaning strength and weight), length, and agility to defend the paint. Also attitude.

Gobert is great if guys are trying to go around and over him and not through him.


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Re: The 2019-2020 Zion Williamson thread 

Post#70 » by bledredwine » Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:18 pm

I love how level-headed Zion is.

In the post-game interview, Zion gave respect to Gobert, called one of his teammates an "automatic bucket", and kept stressing defense. I love this kid's drive to work and become great on both ends of the court, yet lack of showing a spoiled arrogance from the hype.
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Re: The 2019-2020 Zion Williamson thread 

Post#71 » by clyde21 » Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:43 pm

bledredwine wrote:I love how level-headed Zion is.

In the post-game interview, Zion gave respect to Gobert, called one of his teammates an "automatic bucket", and kept stressing defense. I love this kid's drive to work and become great on both ends of the court, yet lack of showing a spoiled arrogance from the hype.


he's a great kid, easy to root for
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Re: The 2019-2020 Zion Williamson thread 

Post#72 » by clyde21 » Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:59 pm

if I am Gentry I'm starting NAW and bringing Jackson, JJ and Ingram off the bench
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Re: The 2019-2020 Zion Williamson thread 

Post#73 » by SeattleJazzFan » Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:18 am

If i'm new orleans, i think seriously about trading Ingram unless he is willing to come off the bench - which i'm fairly confident he wouldn't be willing to do. Melli is simply a better fit next to Zion and it isn't close.
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Re: The 2019-2020 Zion Williamson thread 

Post#74 » by NO-KG-AI » Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:32 am

Not sweating the defense at all. He looks like he is losing focus, but that’s never been an issue long term, and it’s easily correctable as he gets more comfortable.

None of his defensive problems are physical, that’s what matters for a guy we know is smart and has a huge motor.


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Re: The 2019-2020 Zion Williamson thread 

Post#75 » by clyde21 » Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:54 am

NO-KG-AI wrote:Not sweating the defense at all. He looks like he is losing focus, but that’s never been an issue long term, and it’s easily correctable as he gets more comfortable.

None of his defensive problems are physical, that’s what matters for a guy we know is smart and has a huge motor.


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agreed...i think he's just getting used to the NBA pace and getting his conditioning up, defense will come in time...last thing I'm worried about
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Re: The 2019-2020 Zion Williamson thread 

Post#76 » by Joao Saraiva » Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:14 pm

I want the season to start badly. Damn I think I'm gonna follow his entire career! Hope he turns out to be the GOAT candidate of this next generation!
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Re: The 2019-2020 Zion Williamson thread 

Post#77 » by Dr Spaceman » Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:25 pm

I’m gonna throw out a rather crazy offensive comparison: big 3 Dwayne Wade.

We’ll start with the obvious: he doesn’t have Wade’s mid range game and he isn’t a half court ball handler.

That said, the way the dude moves off ball and sort of glides through the lane evading multiple bodies and knocking big men out of the way with those acrobatic finishes is absolutely Wade-esque. His transition handling and the way he just imposes his will on the game through sheer physical force remind me so much of Wade and he’s already got a comparable arsenal of up fakes, hook shots, and turnarounds from about 8 feet in as Wade. His power and speed especially at his size is unprecedented and if he leans out a bit I could see him matching Wade’s motor/activity level, just making plays all over the floor.
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Re: The 2019-2020 Zion Williamson thread 

Post#78 » by Jim Naismith » Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:28 pm

Zion is a top-15 player in the NBA when healthy.
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Re: The 2019-2020 Zion Williamson thread 

Post#79 » by Dr Spaceman » Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:41 pm

Jim Naismith wrote:Zion is a top-15 player in the NBA when healthy.


This is a huge overreaction. Ben Simmons also looked this good his rookie year but until you see him against a wide variety of defenses you just can’t make a claim like this. His defense has also been less than inspiring.
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Re: The 2019-2020 Zion Williamson thread 

Post#80 » by clyde21 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:47 pm

i think he'll be considered a top 10 guy by the end of his rookie year.
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